We are so slow at the back and up front at the minute.
Stewart for us out of trouble so often as he had enough pace to make up for mistakes.
Mawson is very slow, so is Tafa. JJ legs appear to have gone and Grimmer is steady but not lightening.
Wing is so slow. Without McCleary/Hanlan we are easy to defend against. You need some forwards to turn defenders in a foot race.
Individually we’ve got some very good players but collectively we do not have a great team at the minute, especially with the injuries.
Ainsworth is searching for his best formation again. Why he cannot just play 4-2-3-1 I don’t know.
if he really has to play a back three then Forino needs to start!
We have these runs regularly, so I expect us to come out the other side. I really don’t see us as relegation material, unless Scowen & Hanlan are out until after Xmas.
When we have 'these runs' (I think this is something different, largely because it's at the start of the season), you can usually see signs that the corner is about to be turned. I'm seeing none of that at the moment. Things are worse than they've been in a very long time. We're not going to get relegated - that would be almost impressive with the calibre of players we have - but it's going to take a pretty dramatic transformation of our fortunes if we're to get anywhere near the play-offs.
Indeed @Last_Quarter - another observation from the neutrals was exactly that, we seemed to be pretty negative and invited Sheffield Wednesday onto us too many times. It's an ongoing concern which just isn't going to work against the better teams - and right now, we do not look like one of the better teams.
I know it's a certain way to guarantee down votes in this place, but let us not forget Rob Couhig was bullish in his adamance we would be aiming for automatic promotion this year - there may be some understanding voices on this forum but I worry things could get quite nasty amongst those who shout the loudest if we are still bottom half by Christmas.
I clearly know nothing about football as I didn’t think we were quite as bad yesterday (particularly second half) as everyone else on here seems to think we were.
I accept that may be due to Wednesday playing in second gear but at half time I feared a lot worse.
I wouldn’t argue that we looked particularly good but for a 20 minute or so spell I thought we played okay, playing the ball on the ground through the middle and moving it (fairly) quickly out to Horgan on the right.
I also don’t remember Wednesday ripping us apart anywhere near as frequently as they did first half.
Agree the defence looked a little all over the place and when Wednesday did move through the gears it was quite concerning how easily they found space.
Scowen has been a massive loss these past two games. As well as Gape played yesterday (how many headers did he win? seemed a fair few for a player of his height) I think with Scowen there as well we may have got something out of the game.
i think at the moment we are a fair bit off the very top teams in the division, most of which seem to have got their act together this season. Our success (or otherwise) will be determined this season I think by our ability to perform against the teams at similar levels to us.
Mentioned on the commentary yesterday about who we thought Horgan was when we signed him. Quick down the line and deliver a cross. We have no one with that consistent quality. JMac’s crossing is inconsistent to say the least. Grimmer is better but not in that position enough. Freeman can certainly do it but is STILL being nursed back.
I still look back at that starting line up yesterday and could write the script as to what happened.
The other teams got their act together before the season started by signing players to strengthen and by playing their first team squads in meaningful friendlies.
Our pre-season shoddiness is what is now coming back to bite us and the fact that our manager seems to be exceptionally loyal to his players to the point that we may be holding onto them far to long.
I know this post will get some stick but it is basically true.
Bang on. Other teams had a run up, we started from a standstill (or even worse if you count in the injuries). Last season we were on a par with teams like Sheffield Wednesday - albeit that being an amazing achievement. Yesterday we were not.
Looking at the table, it’s perhaps a reminder that we’re not alone in underperforming so far when you see those immediately around us - Charlton, Franchise and PNL.
Not really any consolation obviously, but we’re not the only club who will be disappointed in how things have gone so far based on prior expectations.
It’s way too early to label the upcoming PNL and Franchise games as relegation six-pointers, and I don’t believe we’ll trouble that end of the table in the final analysis, but they are big games. Hopefully we will be a better prospect with GMac and Scowen back.
Not sure friendlies against different opposition would have made any difference - they're all about building fitness and experimenting - but it was definitely a sub-par summer transfer-wise. Agreed re. Gaz's excessive loyalty to players - although he seemed happy (for want of a better word) to let Hayes go when it was clear his legs had gone early in 17-18.
Didn't think we particularly invited Wednesday on to us yesterday, they were just better than us. Looking at starting line up, it was clear we were lacking in midfield and a good side at their home stadium were going to take advantage of that.
When/if we can get key players back not just into our starting XI, but also on the bench, we won't be too far off the likes of Derby / Wednesday, but at the moment we're short. Again, it's worth pointing out that we were 4 unbeaten before these 2 very tough fixtures, playing against sides perhaps expected to be more mid table. All this talk about turning our form round is surely a little premature. Our last 6 have seen 2 wins, 2 draws and 2 defeats. Not great, but also not awful in the context of players we've had missing during that time.
People were saying Ainsworth were excessively loyal each time we gave Akinfenwa a new contract, and each time it was the right decision. I’d rather have a manager who had faith in their players than one who didn’t.
Nope. Never said that once. Each season I like most were crossing our fingers that THAT day wasn’t about to happen.
I love JJ. He’s been amazing for us. But his form is poor, he’s regularly found out against players with pace (look it up, we don’t have any), his set pieces are no longer the gift that keep giving. Whether he was given a contract or not is largely irrelevant to whether he should be starting or not. I’m afraid it is misplaced faith
I’ve never said that about Bayo. In fact I would have signed Bayo for another season every year even if he could play 0 minutes. I would happily pay him a wage just to be in in and around the club. We miss him as a person?as much as anything. We do miss that option for 10 minutes sometimes but honestly I think that’s as much to do with the fact we haven’t invested in another good quality striker to provide a different option.
Also, I would have given JJ another contract, similarly as much for his experience around the club as anything, in a year we’ve lost Bayo and Stewart. But he should be very much an understudy to Obita now at left back. Why on Earth he started in a very tough away game yesterday with Obita day on the bench was madness, and it cost us. And no, this is not hindsight, as soon as the team was released many highlighted it.
JJ has been off form this season, there's no doubt in that. Bit harsh to write him off though, it's not like he's ever been a pacey player. I actually thought he improved as the game wore on yesterday. Pretty awful for the first 20-30 mins, but he was solid enough after that. Couple of decent corners, but granted that free kick that lead to their 2nd goal was dreadful.
People are just stating their viewpoint @perfidious_albion but that doesn’t mean that they don’t live and breath Wycombe Wanderers, very much the contrary. Our pre-season, transfer market and first 10 game form have been not what anyone would have expected.
As I said in a previous post, the game at Barnsley was what we are really about and we need to get back to that level and quickly but if we don’t I will still love Wycombe.
Even the most optimistic supporter would be somewhat surprised at our current position in the league.
Things can change quickly but they certainly need to change one way or another.
That may be the case, but currently we aren't playing well enough defensively or offensively to rely on being able to score through rare counter attacks. We are solely relying on Mehmeti going forward, and defensively are hugely missing Scowen, along with being generally weaker (performance wise) than last year across the board.
It's well documented that many people think that (when fit) we have the players on our squad to play a more front foot, less counter attack reliant style of football. I'd say the resistance to doing so is the definition of negative.
Our 7 game nose dive in Jan/February last season also coincided with Scowen being out injured. For our game plan to work or for us to at least be competitive he is an absolute must on the pitch.
Hopefully with McCleary back next game and fingers crossed Scowen we will be a much more difficult prospect.
I prefer JJ at left back to Obita, appreciate JJ has made a lot of mistakes this season. However, the other issue is Tafa is so far off the pace as well at the minute. I do wonder if we brought Forino in to play left centre back with JJ outside him whether that would improve JJs form. I think he needs some cover inside.
The other thing about older players is they sometimes need game time to get match fit and firing on all cylinders. With JJ being in and out of the team, he's not getting sharp. Perhaps Tafa is suffering the same, he was imperious 2nd half of last season but is nowhere near those heights at the minute.
Finally, I don't believe this squad was ever really capable of autos. I had us down as sneaking a playoff place as an outside chance. I would be disappointed if this squad finished in the bottom half. However, if we did finish bottom half and these injuries continue to blight us then I would accept that. Realistically we have a very good first XI when everyone is fit but our fringe players are not the same standard.
We've been poor in games Scowen has played this season. He is a huge loss, but I don't think our current state is as attributable to that as some are making out. In any case, if we knew Thompson (the most direct alternative for Josh, I think) was going to be out long term, we should have strengthened there in the summer. We lack depth - which is fine if that's ultimately down to finances, but then perhaps the chairman shouldn't have been so bullish about positioning us as one of the division's big-hitters. Again: are we still 'little old Wycombe' or not?
As I’ve said before, I make no apologies for being an optimist when it comes to WWFC. They have given me so many joyous moments since I first saw them play in the 1970s that I’m prepared to suffer the occasional bad times. We’ve made a disappointing start to the season, no argument there. Are some of the criticisms in this thread valid? Absolutely. Are other criticisms too harsh? I think they are. I think we’ve punched above our weight for so long that expectations have become unrealistically high, hence the reaction when we hit a bad patch. I understand that but would just repeat what I wrote in the BFP this week. In the first two months of the season we were pitted against the three clubs relegated from the Championship last season and five of the top eight finishers in League One. It was always going to be a tough start even before the departure of key players and a long list of injuries. I am optimistic that results will improve and we will start to climb the table when confidence and momentum returns. There are still 36 games to go.
The point about the Couhigs talking us up pre-season is an important point to consider when complaining about fans having unrealistic expectations for this season. If you're going to resort to hucksterism to drum up season ticket sales, you're going to have to face the brickbats if a conscious decision has been made not to concentrate on improving the first team and results don't go our way.
Comments
Two big problems so far this season.
We are so slow at the back and up front at the minute.
Stewart for us out of trouble so often as he had enough pace to make up for mistakes.
Mawson is very slow, so is Tafa. JJ legs appear to have gone and Grimmer is steady but not lightening.
Wing is so slow. Without McCleary/Hanlan we are easy to defend against. You need some forwards to turn defenders in a foot race.
Individually we’ve got some very good players but collectively we do not have a great team at the minute, especially with the injuries.
Ainsworth is searching for his best formation again. Why he cannot just play 4-2-3-1 I don’t know.
if he really has to play a back three then Forino needs to start!
We have these runs regularly, so I expect us to come out the other side. I really don’t see us as relegation material, unless Scowen & Hanlan are out until after Xmas.
it will be a long season though…
When we have 'these runs' (I think this is something different, largely because it's at the start of the season), you can usually see signs that the corner is about to be turned. I'm seeing none of that at the moment. Things are worse than they've been in a very long time. We're not going to get relegated - that would be almost impressive with the calibre of players we have - but it's going to take a pretty dramatic transformation of our fortunes if we're to get anywhere near the play-offs.
Wasn't Freeman getting rave notices in that position before the untimely end of his last season? Now he can cross.
Indeed @Last_Quarter - another observation from the neutrals was exactly that, we seemed to be pretty negative and invited Sheffield Wednesday onto us too many times. It's an ongoing concern which just isn't going to work against the better teams - and right now, we do not look like one of the better teams.
I know it's a certain way to guarantee down votes in this place, but let us not forget Rob Couhig was bullish in his adamance we would be aiming for automatic promotion this year - there may be some understanding voices on this forum but I worry things could get quite nasty amongst those who shout the loudest if we are still bottom half by Christmas.
I clearly know nothing about football as I didn’t think we were quite as bad yesterday (particularly second half) as everyone else on here seems to think we were.
I accept that may be due to Wednesday playing in second gear but at half time I feared a lot worse.
I wouldn’t argue that we looked particularly good but for a 20 minute or so spell I thought we played okay, playing the ball on the ground through the middle and moving it (fairly) quickly out to Horgan on the right.
I also don’t remember Wednesday ripping us apart anywhere near as frequently as they did first half.
Agree the defence looked a little all over the place and when Wednesday did move through the gears it was quite concerning how easily they found space.
Scowen has been a massive loss these past two games. As well as Gape played yesterday (how many headers did he win? seemed a fair few for a player of his height) I think with Scowen there as well we may have got something out of the game.
i think at the moment we are a fair bit off the very top teams in the division, most of which seem to have got their act together this season. Our success (or otherwise) will be determined this season I think by our ability to perform against the teams at similar levels to us.
Mentioned on the commentary yesterday about who we thought Horgan was when we signed him. Quick down the line and deliver a cross. We have no one with that consistent quality. JMac’s crossing is inconsistent to say the least. Grimmer is better but not in that position enough. Freeman can certainly do it but is STILL being nursed back.
I still look back at that starting line up yesterday and could write the script as to what happened.
The other teams got their act together before the season started by signing players to strengthen and by playing their first team squads in meaningful friendlies.
Our pre-season shoddiness is what is now coming back to bite us and the fact that our manager seems to be exceptionally loyal to his players to the point that we may be holding onto them far to long.
I know this post will get some stick but it is basically true.
Bang on. Other teams had a run up, we started from a standstill (or even worse if you count in the injuries). Last season we were on a par with teams like Sheffield Wednesday - albeit that being an amazing achievement. Yesterday we were not.
Looking at the table, it’s perhaps a reminder that we’re not alone in underperforming so far when you see those immediately around us - Charlton, Franchise and PNL.
Not really any consolation obviously, but we’re not the only club who will be disappointed in how things have gone so far based on prior expectations.
It’s way too early to label the upcoming PNL and Franchise games as relegation six-pointers, and I don’t believe we’ll trouble that end of the table in the final analysis, but they are big games. Hopefully we will be a better prospect with GMac and Scowen back.
'We seemed to be to be pretty negative and invited Sheffield Wednesday on to us too many times'
Isn't this just counter attacking football?
Pleased to see you've caught up with the match from yesterday.
Would be intrigued in your view on why Bannon was so influential when in games I've seen anyway he's been a non factor.
For what it us worth I don't think we are far off a good run. I see a big name change in the back line and a good run of results.
Not sure friendlies against different opposition would have made any difference - they're all about building fitness and experimenting - but it was definitely a sub-par summer transfer-wise. Agreed re. Gaz's excessive loyalty to players - although he seemed happy (for want of a better word) to let Hayes go when it was clear his legs had gone early in 17-18.
Didn't think we particularly invited Wednesday on to us yesterday, they were just better than us. Looking at starting line up, it was clear we were lacking in midfield and a good side at their home stadium were going to take advantage of that.
When/if we can get key players back not just into our starting XI, but also on the bench, we won't be too far off the likes of Derby / Wednesday, but at the moment we're short. Again, it's worth pointing out that we were 4 unbeaten before these 2 very tough fixtures, playing against sides perhaps expected to be more mid table. All this talk about turning our form round is surely a little premature. Our last 6 have seen 2 wins, 2 draws and 2 defeats. Not great, but also not awful in the context of players we've had missing during that time.
People were saying Ainsworth were excessively loyal each time we gave Akinfenwa a new contract, and each time it was the right decision. I’d rather have a manager who had faith in their players than one who didn’t.
Nope. Never said that once. Each season I like most were crossing our fingers that THAT day wasn’t about to happen.
I love JJ. He’s been amazing for us. But his form is poor, he’s regularly found out against players with pace (look it up, we don’t have any), his set pieces are no longer the gift that keep giving. Whether he was given a contract or not is largely irrelevant to whether he should be starting or not. I’m afraid it is misplaced faith
Yes, but Bayo was evidently still more than up to the task. JJ, as much as I love him, isn't.
An awful lot of criticism of players, performance, tactics, game management, recruitment, budgets, pace, injury record, pre season etc on this thread.
I was rather hoping some polite balance to the debate might be forthcoming? @glasshalffull lets be having you
I’ve never said that about Bayo. In fact I would have signed Bayo for another season every year even if he could play 0 minutes. I would happily pay him a wage just to be in in and around the club. We miss him as a person?as much as anything. We do miss that option for 10 minutes sometimes but honestly I think that’s as much to do with the fact we haven’t invested in another good quality striker to provide a different option.
Also, I would have given JJ another contract, similarly as much for his experience around the club as anything, in a year we’ve lost Bayo and Stewart. But he should be very much an understudy to Obita now at left back. Why on Earth he started in a very tough away game yesterday with Obita day on the bench was madness, and it cost us. And no, this is not hindsight, as soon as the team was released many highlighted it.
JJ has been off form this season, there's no doubt in that. Bit harsh to write him off though, it's not like he's ever been a pacey player. I actually thought he improved as the game wore on yesterday. Pretty awful for the first 20-30 mins, but he was solid enough after that. Couple of decent corners, but granted that free kick that lead to their 2nd goal was dreadful.
People are just stating their viewpoint @perfidious_albion but that doesn’t mean that they don’t live and breath Wycombe Wanderers, very much the contrary. Our pre-season, transfer market and first 10 game form have been not what anyone would have expected.
As I said in a previous post, the game at Barnsley was what we are really about and we need to get back to that level and quickly but if we don’t I will still love Wycombe.
Even the most optimistic supporter would be somewhat surprised at our current position in the league.
Things can change quickly but they certainly need to change one way or another.
Let’s see what we’re like with a front 3 of McCleary, Vokes and Mehmeti.
At this level that has the potential to be pretty effective against most defences.
That may be the case, but currently we aren't playing well enough defensively or offensively to rely on being able to score through rare counter attacks. We are solely relying on Mehmeti going forward, and defensively are hugely missing Scowen, along with being generally weaker (performance wise) than last year across the board.
It's well documented that many people think that (when fit) we have the players on our squad to play a more front foot, less counter attack reliant style of football. I'd say the resistance to doing so is the definition of negative.
Our 7 game nose dive in Jan/February last season also coincided with Scowen being out injured. For our game plan to work or for us to at least be competitive he is an absolute must on the pitch.
Hopefully with McCleary back next game and fingers crossed Scowen we will be a much more difficult prospect.
I prefer JJ at left back to Obita, appreciate JJ has made a lot of mistakes this season. However, the other issue is Tafa is so far off the pace as well at the minute. I do wonder if we brought Forino in to play left centre back with JJ outside him whether that would improve JJs form. I think he needs some cover inside.
The other thing about older players is they sometimes need game time to get match fit and firing on all cylinders. With JJ being in and out of the team, he's not getting sharp. Perhaps Tafa is suffering the same, he was imperious 2nd half of last season but is nowhere near those heights at the minute.
Finally, I don't believe this squad was ever really capable of autos. I had us down as sneaking a playoff place as an outside chance. I would be disappointed if this squad finished in the bottom half. However, if we did finish bottom half and these injuries continue to blight us then I would accept that. Realistically we have a very good first XI when everyone is fit but our fringe players are not the same standard.
If you are going to play "counter attacking" football, surely you have to have players with pace? We don't ATM!
We've been poor in games Scowen has played this season. He is a huge loss, but I don't think our current state is as attributable to that as some are making out. In any case, if we knew Thompson (the most direct alternative for Josh, I think) was going to be out long term, we should have strengthened there in the summer. We lack depth - which is fine if that's ultimately down to finances, but then perhaps the chairman shouldn't have been so bullish about positioning us as one of the division's big-hitters. Again: are we still 'little old Wycombe' or not?
As I’ve said before, I make no apologies for being an optimist when it comes to WWFC. They have given me so many joyous moments since I first saw them play in the 1970s that I’m prepared to suffer the occasional bad times. We’ve made a disappointing start to the season, no argument there. Are some of the criticisms in this thread valid? Absolutely. Are other criticisms too harsh? I think they are. I think we’ve punched above our weight for so long that expectations have become unrealistically high, hence the reaction when we hit a bad patch. I understand that but would just repeat what I wrote in the BFP this week. In the first two months of the season we were pitted against the three clubs relegated from the Championship last season and five of the top eight finishers in League One. It was always going to be a tough start even before the departure of key players and a long list of injuries. I am optimistic that results will improve and we will start to climb the table when confidence and momentum returns. There are still 36 games to go.
Apparently we played two 10+ pass sequences yesterday?! 😮
The point about the Couhigs talking us up pre-season is an important point to consider when complaining about fans having unrealistic expectations for this season. If you're going to resort to hucksterism to drum up season ticket sales, you're going to have to face the brickbats if a conscious decision has been made not to concentrate on improving the first team and results don't go our way.
Can we start a 'Gasroom Word of the Day'? Two great contenders in this post alone.
Hucksterism - what a great word.