This ‘free scouting’ idea @Otter87 ? How much does it cost at the moment? I thought clubs gave scouts free tickets and surely going to an u23 game involving so non Wycombe teams give you twice as much to look at.
But we wouldn't need scouts if GA and Dobbo can see them playing at AP (or whatever home venue) rather than having to travel purposely out of their fixture to watch them. They can watch what they currently have vs. what they could have in like-for-like comparisons
Not sure an U23 league is a thing @Otter87. Even the Premier League one is now an U21 competition.
Our development team model is different to most clubs academy model. Not surprising I guess then that league structures to accommodate it do not exist. Occasional friendlies, the Papa Johns, maybe the League cup and loans seem the most likely way. For the most promising the odd substitute first team appearance and who knows....
Wonder how Brentford have toughened up their development players and found ways to get them playing together competitively over the past decade or so. Outward loans seemed to be a key feature, often to our benefit.
I may be wrong but I think theirs is the approach towards which we aspire.
Excuse the derailment but that word is new to me and I felt the need to bring it to a larger audience. I’ll be looking for an opportunity to use it (in the right context, of course) but I’d better not hold my breath.
Interesting looking how the Brentford B model operated. Not in any league but arranged a number of friendlies against League, Non league and European opposition. They concentrated their B team recruitment on players from 17 to 21 years of age.
However, with Brentford now in the Premier League, they are now re-introducing an academy set up.
I onced witnessed Adie Mann but in an amazing performance on trial under Jim Kelman at Loakes Park in the Capital league. unfortunately that level soon dipped after we signed him.
We may aspire to use the outward loan system but being brutal a lot of our development players are not good enough to make a loan to a level where they might really push on and develop. A loan to Beaconsfield does not seem inspiring and then when you read they are on the bench the heart sinks further. We have to accept that we are probably playing a numbers game with the development squad. Sign 10 or so every summer on one year deals, hope maybe 3 make a second year, hope 1 makes the first team pool after that. It's probably only in year 2 or 3 that an outward loan at a meaningful level would push them onto being close to being ready.
That is simply a reflection of where we are in the pecking order. And we also have to accept that a player can sign a 1st year pro contract at any one of the huge number of clubs in our catchment area on higher terms than most of our first team are getting. Where would you sign?
To be honest, I'd like us to bring back the Academy. Yes, we won't see any results for the first 4-5yrs as we establish squads and a collection of players, but he have had massive success players that have come through. K Harries, M Philip, J Ibe and there is a defender than I can't find (who played for Aston Villa).
On this occasion I agree with you. The costs of setting up an Academy are prohibitive and as Otter87 said himself, the benefits could take years to materialise. The development squad is a much better fit for a club of our size and I still say it’s too soon to dismiss our present crop of youngsters as being not good enough. Some will progress, others won’t but we must give them time.
I've seen figures ranging between 300-500k a year for running an academy. That's probably the lower level category too, as I'm sure I've seen they rate them, so you wouldn't be getting the type a prem club has.
That's the sort of outlay that has to be regularly bringing players through to sell on for a decent profit.
The second they brought in the ability of higher clubs to steal youngsters and pay just 50k, it utterly killed the dream for a lot of clubs.
Unless you think you can keep the poachers out.
I'm told just in our current set up we have to keep Brentford out, as they're often trying to poach even our development signings!
There is a long list of things a club has to do to meet the requirements of running an Academy. There are specific rules about the number of staff including medical resources etc, making it a very expensive exercise. Even if you eventually unearth a player who is wanted by a bigger club the rules state that they can sign him for a fee that wouldn’t even cover the cost of running the Academy for a year.
On the other side of it is that if we re-started our Academy, I think it would engage more of our community into the club. The whole "My friend is on Wycombe's books" and starting the dream of having an opportunity to play for Wycombe could be a chance of getting that golden player. It would bring the community feel back into the club, which is something that seems to have disappeared over the last 10 yrs and the club hasn't really put much effort into saving. While I watched a large chunk of Wycombe playing before I left for the area for uni, I would also look forward to seeing what new players appear from our youth system and seeing them play for the club.
Having an academy would also help a small number of our senior players as they can use this set up to help them to gain their coaching qualifications rather than having to travel somewhere else to get these completed. I know Matt Bloomfield completed his qualifications with the Ipswich Town youth academy.
While I see the point & concern over a starlet being signed for only £50k, if we had 6 or 7 that are signed, then we could start getting a reputation for developing good, young players. Also, if there was a player like that playing in our U15's squad or below, will that player not help all the others in the squad to develop (before moving onto their new club). Also, while yes we would loose a player for £50k, the club will always get a percentage of all of the transfer fees that are paid for that player (getting smaller as more transfers happen).
I think the chances of us re-starting an academy in the near future are very very small.
Meanwhile the development squad concept has been remarkably successful so far. We will probably not get a first team player every year from it but so far remarkably good.
Not sure why one Papa Johns defeat has caused so much soul searching tbh.
Just one heroic win against Peterborough next month and we sail into the next round. Maybe we should rest first teamers from the previous weekend league game to prepare properly for the big game.
Comments
This ‘free scouting’ idea @Otter87 ? How much does it cost at the moment? I thought clubs gave scouts free tickets and surely going to an u23 game involving so non Wycombe teams give you twice as much to look at.
But we wouldn't need scouts if GA and Dobbo can see them playing at AP (or whatever home venue) rather than having to travel purposely out of their fixture to watch them. They can watch what they currently have vs. what they could have in like-for-like comparisons
The 'free scouts tickets' is a myth btw
Not sure an U23 league is a thing @Otter87. Even the Premier League one is now an U21 competition.
Our development team model is different to most clubs academy model. Not surprising I guess then that league structures to accommodate it do not exist. Occasional friendlies, the Papa Johns, maybe the League cup and loans seem the most likely way. For the most promising the odd substitute first team appearance and who knows....
@DevC It's listed as an U23 competition but most clubs use their U21 squads to play in it
Changed this season to an U21 only competition (defined in the same strange way as EFL squad limits)
Wonder how Brentford have toughened up their development players and found ways to get them playing together competitively over the past decade or so. Outward loans seemed to be a key feature, often to our benefit.
I may be wrong but I think theirs is the approach towards which we aspire.
@DevC is on fire 🔥 today
Yes, that is probably an even better solution @Otter87
Very tempting.
Hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia Is a very long word but what does it mean?
Excuse the derailment but that word is new to me and I felt the need to bring it to a larger audience. I’ll be looking for an opportunity to use it (in the right context, of course) but I’d better not hold my breath.
Interesting looking how the Brentford B model operated. Not in any league but arranged a number of friendlies against League, Non league and European opposition. They concentrated their B team recruitment on players from 17 to 21 years of age.
However, with Brentford now in the Premier League, they are now re-introducing an academy set up.
Fear of large hippo babies?
sesquipedalophobics would never use the term hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia though, @micra
Spot on, young @Twizz. But I’ll let someone else spell out the definition.
I onced witnessed Adie Mann but in an amazing performance on trial under Jim Kelman at Loakes Park in the Capital league. unfortunately that level soon dipped after we signed him.
We may aspire to use the outward loan system but being brutal a lot of our development players are not good enough to make a loan to a level where they might really push on and develop. A loan to Beaconsfield does not seem inspiring and then when you read they are on the bench the heart sinks further. We have to accept that we are probably playing a numbers game with the development squad. Sign 10 or so every summer on one year deals, hope maybe 3 make a second year, hope 1 makes the first team pool after that. It's probably only in year 2 or 3 that an outward loan at a meaningful level would push them onto being close to being ready.
That is simply a reflection of where we are in the pecking order. And we also have to accept that a player can sign a 1st year pro contract at any one of the huge number of clubs in our catchment area on higher terms than most of our first team are getting. Where would you sign?
To be honest, I'd like us to bring back the Academy. Yes, we won't see any results for the first 4-5yrs as we establish squads and a collection of players, but he have had massive success players that have come through. K Harries, M Philip, J Ibe and there is a defender than I can't find (who played for Aston Villa).
Kortney Hause
@Otter87 sorry completely unaffordable and open to big clubs poaching the cream as they develope.
Utterly unworkable the second the FA in their infinite wisdom brought in a rule you can steal kids before a certain age for a mere fee of 50k.
On this occasion I agree with you. The costs of setting up an Academy are prohibitive and as Otter87 said himself, the benefits could take years to materialise. The development squad is a much better fit for a club of our size and I still say it’s too soon to dismiss our present crop of youngsters as being not good enough. Some will progress, others won’t but we must give them time.
Why are the costs so prohibitive @glasshalffull ?
Why can a local side run from u10's to senior when a professional side can't?
Surely it is not helpful for the larger clubs to have so many youngsters on their books?
I've seen figures ranging between 300-500k a year for running an academy. That's probably the lower level category too, as I'm sure I've seen they rate them, so you wouldn't be getting the type a prem club has.
That's the sort of outlay that has to be regularly bringing players through to sell on for a decent profit.
The second they brought in the ability of higher clubs to steal youngsters and pay just 50k, it utterly killed the dream for a lot of clubs.
Unless you think you can keep the poachers out.
I'm told just in our current set up we have to keep Brentford out, as they're often trying to poach even our development signings!
There is a long list of things a club has to do to meet the requirements of running an Academy. There are specific rules about the number of staff including medical resources etc, making it a very expensive exercise. Even if you eventually unearth a player who is wanted by a bigger club the rules state that they can sign him for a fee that wouldn’t even cover the cost of running the Academy for a year.
On the other side of it is that if we re-started our Academy, I think it would engage more of our community into the club. The whole "My friend is on Wycombe's books" and starting the dream of having an opportunity to play for Wycombe could be a chance of getting that golden player. It would bring the community feel back into the club, which is something that seems to have disappeared over the last 10 yrs and the club hasn't really put much effort into saving. While I watched a large chunk of Wycombe playing before I left for the area for uni, I would also look forward to seeing what new players appear from our youth system and seeing them play for the club.
Having an academy would also help a small number of our senior players as they can use this set up to help them to gain their coaching qualifications rather than having to travel somewhere else to get these completed. I know Matt Bloomfield completed his qualifications with the Ipswich Town youth academy.
While I see the point & concern over a starlet being signed for only £50k, if we had 6 or 7 that are signed, then we could start getting a reputation for developing good, young players. Also, if there was a player like that playing in our U15's squad or below, will that player not help all the others in the squad to develop (before moving onto their new club). Also, while yes we would loose a player for £50k, the club will always get a percentage of all of the transfer fees that are paid for that player (getting smaller as more transfers happen).
Thank you @HolmerBlue and I also forgot Matt Ingram as well!
I think the chances of us re-starting an academy in the near future are very very small.
Meanwhile the development squad concept has been remarkably successful so far. We will probably not get a first team player every year from it but so far remarkably good.
Not sure why one Papa Johns defeat has caused so much soul searching tbh.
Because some of us were looking forward to another visit to Wembley on 19th March next year!!
Just one heroic win against Peterborough next month and we sail into the next round. Maybe we should rest first teamers from the previous weekend league game to prepare properly for the big game.