@Chris Seeing as you insist on this crusade of being crushingly pedantic, you might at least get it right. They played the national anthem of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
This will be of interest to you and I suspect no-one else Chris. And since you asked, I've never heard it called the British anthem before and it surprises me that some people call it that, and indeed that it is referred to as such when a team from England is playing, I've heard it called both the UK national anthem and the English national anthem frequently. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Save_the_Queen#Use_in_the_United_Kingdom
Thanks, I've already read that article today. I am genuinely surprised that at no point during the 2012 Olympics you didn't hear it referred to as the British national anthem.
Too many sports that you only get to see once every 4 years to be watching some IOC official or other taking his time over it all. It's for the medalists and the people at the venue to enjoy the moment, but it's no spectator sport in my book.
In an era when a 20 year old has cost £49 million pounds, and there's chat of another player costing £100 million, it's obvious this is all ludicrous and it's lost touch with everyone.
It's nice to see a player stick to principles, show honesty and integrity, and give an opinion.
There's nothing sadder in the game that for many, the end of the transfer window is the best day of the season.
Ah, it seems I've gone dramatically off piste with this rant.
He turns the other way for the anthem, but his conscious is clear enough to take the paycheck and pay his taxes to said nation United Kingdom, unless ofc he is paid in Euro's.
Crikey. Some of you lot would have been berating Tommie Smith and John Carlos for giving the black power salute at the 1968 Olympics as they were happy enough to live in the country that oppressed them so they should have just sucked it up.
@sandsexile - You're right - McLean does have a choice. But, Football is apolitical. McLean also has a right to play wherever he wants. He earns money here, and pays taxes, he's not asked to endorse any political opinion in doing so.
How is it different from anyone else in any other job giving a political opinion that isn't in line with their employer's? For instance, if you work for Sky Sports, you have every right to be annoyed and vocally critical of Murdoch's politics.
He should have stood still as a mark of respect for any national anthem. He doesn't have to sing after all. In an International match a blatant disregard for a national flag would be unacceptable so there is already precedent.
As for his general attitude, I find it utterly hypocritical that he chooses to earn a living in England, where HM Queen reigns sovereign. If he doesn't like that then he should ply his craft in a country where that is not the position. It's his choice. As it is he wants to have his cake and eat it. He's a hypocrite.
Good on him for standing his ground. It's a rubbish anthem anyway - Sorry to disagree with Maggie (aka TG) but if people don't agree with something then they should say so. She might reign over you but not Mr McClean...or me, for that matter! (but I did enjoy the day off a couple of years ago).
@FrijidPink Whether the National Anthem is or is not 'rubbish' is irrelevant. Whether or not you agree with the constitution of a nation is irrelevant. You still respect and observe the anthem - out of common courtesy and politeness if nothing else.
My point is that he isn't the one who politicised the situation. If the anthem hadn't been played then this situation is avoided in the first place. It wasn't an international. And even if it had been, and sport is 'apolitical' or above politics, then why do they play the (inherently political) anthems?
For those of you who don't think he should work in the UK given his political beliefs, how do you feel about British people who go and work in other countries? Especially countries whose politics you disagree with, for example China or UAE?
The reason why the anthem was played in the first place was that the game took place in the USA and they take any excuse over there to run up the flag and puff out their chests. Even the Shermans aren't crass enough to only play their own anthem, so they must have dusted off a pre-1775 LP for the Brummies.
As an aside, it would have been interesting to see what would have happened had someone with strong feelings about US foreign policy make their distain for Old Glory and the Star Spangled Banner known. Purely hypothetical question.
I'm British, like being British, like living in England. I hate having an outdated royal family. Hate the 'national' anthem (admittedly more because it's crap - I actually love the American one) and choose to ignore it if forced to be at a location (ie Wembley) where I have to listen to it. So what? Am I disrespectful? Does anyone care? Hopefully not. (Having said that and having been to pubs in Ireland (both sides) I do stand up when their respective anthems are played at closing time on the grounds that I value my life!). As I said. I love living in England where we're mature enough not to take these things remotely seriously. Aren't we?
@sandsexile he's facing a different direction because he chose not to turn and face the flag. He didn't turn his back on anything, merely carried on facing the direction he was already facing. A subtle distinction perhaps, but an important one I'd say
Hypocritical? What errant nonsense, @Tory_Goon. What total guff.
It would be hypocritical if he was representing the English team at an international, which he was not. It is not hypocritical for him to live and work in Britain without worshipping the Union Jack or singing the national anthem. That is what you get from living in an internationalist, tolerant and open community that doesn't subscribe to North Korean-style thought police.
McClean was respectful of others; he didn't make a scene then or a fuss subsequently. He simply opted out. As should we all from this pointless, intolerant and borderline zenophobic discussion.
While not entirely agreeing with his decision to make such a public show...it is ridiculous for a team full of various nations to have the National Anthem played.
National Anthems should only be played when there is a sporting contest between two teams representing and comprising 100% nationals of those countries. It should not be played before a tinpot friendly between club teams comprised of players of diverse nationalities.
My mate was once thrown out of a Scouts gang show for failing to stand for the anthem - you could say that was a key benefit of being a Republican.
Myself, I'll usually stand quietly for Royal nonsense to avoid upsetting the brainwashed, but I recall being lectured by an old buffer in the Woodlands for refusing to stand for the two minutes silence accorded to that great friend of football, Princess Margaret.
It also brings to mind that shameful period in our history when many WWFC supporters stood to chant 'there's only one Elton John' at the bespectacled crooner, the day after his Princess Di funeral cash-in gig. Got a few furious glares for booing during that one. Great game for Alan Beeton that day too...
@arnos_grove said:
Great game for Alan Beeton that day too...
In fact you could argue that day that Beeton was playing with the spirit of the people's princess inside him. It's undoubtedly what she would have wanted.
Comments
@Chris Seeing as you insist on this crusade of being crushingly pedantic, you might at least get it right. They played the national anthem of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
You were the one being pedantic, saying that it wasn't the British national anthem, but that it was the English national anthem. You were wrong. And you're wrong again. http://www.royal.gov.uk/MonarchUK/Symbols/NationalAnthem.aspx
Perhaps sometimes you ought to consider admitting that you've made a mistake, rather than doubling down.
This will be of interest to you and I suspect no-one else Chris. And since you asked, I've never heard it called the British anthem before and it surprises me that some people call it that, and indeed that it is referred to as such when a team from England is playing, I've heard it called both the UK national anthem and the English national anthem frequently. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Save_the_Queen#Use_in_the_United_Kingdom
Thanks, I've already read that article today. I am genuinely surprised that at no point during the 2012 Olympics you didn't hear it referred to as the British national anthem.
Too many sports that you only get to see once every 4 years to be watching some IOC official or other taking his time over it all. It's for the medalists and the people at the venue to enjoy the moment, but it's no spectator sport in my book.
In an era when a 20 year old has cost £49 million pounds, and there's chat of another player costing £100 million, it's obvious this is all ludicrous and it's lost touch with everyone.
It's nice to see a player stick to principles, show honesty and integrity, and give an opinion.
There's nothing sadder in the game that for many, the end of the transfer window is the best day of the season.
Ah, it seems I've gone dramatically off piste with this rant.
But still, good on McLean
He turns the other way for the anthem, but his conscious is clear enough to take the paycheck and pay his taxes to said nation United Kingdom, unless ofc he is paid in Euro's.
Crikey. Some of you lot would have been berating Tommie Smith and John Carlos for giving the black power salute at the 1968 Olympics as they were happy enough to live in the country that oppressed them so they should have just sucked it up.
@drcongo : Actually isn't one of the great things about sport its ability to transcend politics - except when people start bringing politics into it.
@sandsexile - You're right - McLean does have a choice. But, Football is apolitical. McLean also has a right to play wherever he wants. He earns money here, and pays taxes, he's not asked to endorse any political opinion in doing so.
How is it different from anyone else in any other job giving a political opinion that isn't in line with their employer's? For instance, if you work for Sky Sports, you have every right to be annoyed and vocally critical of Murdoch's politics.
... by playing the national anthem.
He didn't ask them to play the anthem, as far as I'm aware. He's been put in a very difficult situation by whoever decided to play it.
He should have stood still as a mark of respect for any national anthem. He doesn't have to sing after all. In an International match a blatant disregard for a national flag would be unacceptable so there is already precedent.
As for his general attitude, I find it utterly hypocritical that he chooses to earn a living in England, where HM Queen reigns sovereign. If he doesn't like that then he should ply his craft in a country where that is not the position. It's his choice. As it is he wants to have his cake and eat it. He's a hypocrite.
Good on him for standing his ground. It's a rubbish anthem anyway - Sorry to disagree with Maggie (aka TG) but if people don't agree with something then they should say so. She might reign over you but not Mr McClean...or me, for that matter! (but I did enjoy the day off a couple of years ago).
what a load of pompous old guff
@eric_plant So it's okay if we disrespect other nation's national anthems is it? I thought you were the liberal one?
@FrijidPink Whether the National Anthem is or is not 'rubbish' is irrelevant. Whether or not you agree with the constitution of a nation is irrelevant. You still respect and observe the anthem - out of common courtesy and politeness if nothing else.
@Tory_Goon he's not disrespecting it as far as I can see
My point is that he isn't the one who politicised the situation. If the anthem hadn't been played then this situation is avoided in the first place. It wasn't an international. And even if it had been, and sport is 'apolitical' or above politics, then why do they play the (inherently political) anthems?
For those of you who don't think he should work in the UK given his political beliefs, how do you feel about British people who go and work in other countries? Especially countries whose politics you disagree with, for example China or UAE?
The reason why the anthem was played in the first place was that the game took place in the USA and they take any excuse over there to run up the flag and puff out their chests. Even the Shermans aren't crass enough to only play their own anthem, so they must have dusted off a pre-1775 LP for the Brummies.
As an aside, it would have been interesting to see what would have happened had someone with strong feelings about US foreign policy make their distain for Old Glory and the Star Spangled Banner known. Purely hypothetical question.
As Eric says, I'm not quite sure what he did that was so disrespectful.
I agree, there would be a reaction in those countries. I would disagree with that reaction too.
It is politics.
I'm British, like being British, like living in England. I hate having an outdated royal family. Hate the 'national' anthem (admittedly more because it's crap - I actually love the American one) and choose to ignore it if forced to be at a location (ie Wembley) where I have to listen to it. So what? Am I disrespectful? Does anyone care? Hopefully not. (Having said that and having been to pubs in Ireland (both sides) I do stand up when their respective anthems are played at closing time on the grounds that I value my life!). As I said. I love living in England where we're mature enough not to take these things remotely seriously. Aren't we?
@sandsexile he's facing a different direction because he chose not to turn and face the flag. He didn't turn his back on anything, merely carried on facing the direction he was already facing. A subtle distinction perhaps, but an important one I'd say
Hypocritical? What errant nonsense, @Tory_Goon. What total guff.
It would be hypocritical if he was representing the English team at an international, which he was not. It is not hypocritical for him to live and work in Britain without worshipping the Union Jack or singing the national anthem. That is what you get from living in an internationalist, tolerant and open community that doesn't subscribe to North Korean-style thought police.
McClean was respectful of others; he didn't make a scene then or a fuss subsequently. He simply opted out. As should we all from this pointless, intolerant and borderline zenophobic discussion.
While not entirely agreeing with his decision to make such a public show...it is ridiculous for a team full of various nations to have the National Anthem played.
National Anthems should only be played when there is a sporting contest between two teams representing and comprising 100% nationals of those countries. It should not be played before a tinpot friendly between club teams comprised of players of diverse nationalities.
He isn't British - he's Irish - it isn;t his national anthem
My mate was once thrown out of a Scouts gang show for failing to stand for the anthem - you could say that was a key benefit of being a Republican.
Myself, I'll usually stand quietly for Royal nonsense to avoid upsetting the brainwashed, but I recall being lectured by an old buffer in the Woodlands for refusing to stand for the two minutes silence accorded to that great friend of football, Princess Margaret.
It also brings to mind that shameful period in our history when many WWFC supporters stood to chant 'there's only one Elton John' at the bespectacled crooner, the day after his Princess Di funeral cash-in gig. Got a few furious glares for booing during that one. Great game for Alan Beeton that day too...
In fact you could argue that day that Beeton was playing with the spirit of the people's princess inside him. It's undoubtedly what she would have wanted.
God we need some real football