I think those attacking GA are in a very small minority, so in some ways the article was unnecessary. That said it is frustrating to read the usual lazy social media comments as soon as we lose a few games. "No plan B", "tactically inept" etc etc.
Despite the win today, I still suspect we're in for a few tough weeks until the injury situation improves. So they'll probably be plenty more opportunities for the moaners.
I share your perception, @micra, though I think I might apply it more widely than to just WWFC.
Even leaving aside their playing style, which I agree is pleasing to the eye and admirably well executed, there is a lovely spirit to the women's game (currently - the first signs of "professionalism" are creeping in) that reminds one of the times when sport was a pastime whose primary purpose was to give enjoyment to the players and spectators and largely did so, win or lose. When compared to that, the (generally) remorselessly cynical and amoral (to be generous) approach present in many established professional sports, with football by some margin the market leader among mainstream sports in this respect, removes much of the potential for uplift of the spirits beyond the actual result.
For sure, both approaches represent some essential characteristics of human nature present to some degree in all of us and are thus somewhat equally representative of our species and thus capable of informing our own lives. But, given the luxury of not having to fight tooth and nail with sabre-toothed tigers and other competitors for survival every day, I know which offers more balm to my soul. Perhaps I would feel the same way even were I in that position and perhaps that is why I have the strong sense that I would have been among the first to go in prehistoric times, but there you have it. When the quality of play, as in yesterday's game, is moderate, one is left with little to appreciate beyond endeavour, honest or otherwise (though that is not nothing).
Just watched the last twenty minutes of Scotland v Wales in the women's RWC - cracking game that ended with a penalty from a little under thirty metres in front of the posts with the game tied and time up. In the men's game, a prosaic formality. In this one, far from a sure thing with even the decision whether to take the kick or to kick to touch being a balanced one. Thus, when the penalty kick went over, the level of joy resulting from the achievement was that much greater. Perhaps part of the pleasure comes from the relatability average people (me, not you, of course) find from watching players with slightly lower skill levels compared to top level male sport.
TLDR: I really enjoy watching the women's football team, too.
It’s not so much the losing that I find disappointing (though I’d obviously be happier if we were winning more games). It’s the fact that, in my perception, the idea seems to be that the only way we can preserve a lead is to sit back and defend it. I say ‘perception’ because it is difficult (for me, at least) to discern whether we are deliberately sitting back and defending a lead or are being forced back by a demonstrably superior set of players - as, for example, at Hillsborough.
Injuries have clearly been a factor in what has been a disappointing start to the season but, as someone pointed out the other day, we are currently missing only two key players - Scowen and Hanlan. I know I am far from alone in thinking that the rest of the squad are well capable of getting the ball down and passing it on the deck - just like their female counterparts. Players like Freeman, Wing and McCleary demonstrate that on a regular basis. Others perhaps less frequently.
Not sure football is the market leader in cynicism. I don’t think there has ever been an on-the-field scandal the equivalent of bloodgate in rugby union or the ubiquity of doping in cycling. It might just be that football is better at covering it up.
Now if you’re talking governance, FIFA seem to be world leaders at doing whatever it is they do. I don’t think I can call them corrupt as both Blatter and Platini were cleared of charges… but not many people think the World Cup is in Qatar for the good of football.
@micra Yeah, it's hard to say whether we're actively sitting back in games, or if the lack of defensive midfielders means we struggling to get a foothold in games. You say we're only missing 2 key players in Scowen and Hanlan, but I think we'd generally be looking to play 2 from Scowen, Thompson and Gape in midfield and at the moment all 3 are out. That leaves us without anyone who's going to scrap, win us possession and get us going. We do have plenty of ability on the pitch, but to use a cliché, it's that 'earning the right to play' element that we miss at the moment and that leaves us very reliant on our defense and the odd moment of magic from a Mehmeti or McCleary at the other end.
I don’t agree with everything Alan says, but I didn’t personally have a problem with the article. I didn’t feel like it was aimed at the vast majority of fans - who will question the manager at times but generally retain a sense of perspective, but more at the minority of bedwetters who have become increasingly vocal over the last couple of months and seem to almost enjoy seeing us lose so they can push their agenda. If you know you’re not one of those people, then you know the article wasn’t criticising you.
I've been thinking about this a bit (the BFP article, not seeing the bed) and amusing though it was, there's actually a serious point.
We are all in the "Wycombe bubble" (for want of a better phrase) so we understand what's going on. Alan is picking up on a few dissenting voices and writing an article saying how stupid they are and why they're wrong. We all know the vast majority of Wycombe fans love Gaz and want him to stay as long as he wants.
The trouble is there will be people reading it who don't understand that and take it as a general representation of Wycombe fans as a whole and are probably thinking "Wycombe fans seem like right divs, I don't want to go there"
So come on Alan, let's have a bit more positivity please and a more accurate portrayal of Wycombe fans. We want to encourage people to come along, not put them off.
Well said. That’s why I started this topic because I felt it was totally the wrong representation of the vast majority of Wycombe fans. I notice he’s been very quiet this weekend.
Firstly, thanks for keeping it polite. You are right to say that I picked up on a few dissenting voices, mainly on Twitter and Facebook, and on reflection I should have pointed out that they are in the minority. I think anyone who reads the sports pages of the BFP Is likely to be aware of Wycombe Wanderers so I don’t believe I will have deterred any potential fans in the manner you describe, but it’s a fair point. I stand by the general point I made about lecturing the professionals on how they should do their jobs. We don’t stand behind a plumber and tell him how to mend a leak, or instruct a mechanic on how to repair a car, but some football fans have an inflated idea of their ability to solve the manager’s problems.
Finally, it’s ironic that you urge me to be more positive because I am frequently berated on here for being overly optimistic!
Have people lectured Gaz on how to do his job? Or have they simply expressed opinions on their team as literally every football fan does? You can't compare football to plumbing. The average football fan has more idea about the workings of a football team than the average punter does about how to, idk, install a shower (although as @Commoner has just pointed out, they will be able to tell someone legit from a cowboy).
There still needs to be a dialogue though. If any professional cannot see the wood for the trees, then sometimes it takes an observer to ask a question or suggest something to encourage that reflection. Why does that observer have to have done that job previously? That view is just ignorant.
I've had enough work done to my house down the years to know that if I didn't question what was going on then I would have had a sub standard job done or what I was expecting versus what was delivered were two different things.
So I disagree with this sentiment that we are not able to have an open dialogue about players and managers just because it's their trade and not ours. Where I do agree with you, is that there is a way to do that. It should be constructive, balanced, polite and well intentioned. Unfortunately, social media is a real cesspit and anyone can say what they like. Mind you the hyperbole and emotional words so called "pundits" use when reviewing games is only exacerbating the issue.
If you read the article in the ‘newspaper’ you think is obsolete, you will see that I refer to people criticising him for his training methods, team selection, use of substitutes etc. I think that qualifies as lecturing him on how to do his job.
That rather goes against your previous admissions that you respect my knowledge of the game. Seriously, unless they're being outright abusive, stop trying to police people's opinions.
Come on now Alan, this is a bit ridiculous. A fan is not allowed to criticise a manager because of team selection and his use of substitutes? I can understand training methods to a degree but are you really being serious about the first two?
Surely that is the most basic thing that any observer of football will do. They will question whether the team selection and substitutes are right. They don't have to have managed at a professional level to have that opinion and quite frankly, they can be right without any qualification whatsoever.
When things are not going well and we are out of form, GA and Dobbo have regularly taken center mids off and put two forwards on to chase games. We end up playing 4-2-4 and not being able to win the ball in the middle of the park and we very rarely get anything out of it. For me, it really doesn't work and I do not know why we have at times continued with this tactic in seasons gone past. I'm not lecturing him how to do his job, I'm making an observation that I think this tactic does not work. I also felt Bayo and Vokes together rarely worked, they got in each others way more often than not.
Similarly, many of us feel he could make substitutions a little earlier in the game than he tends to like to do. Really what is wrong with that opinion?
If fans cannot comment on these things, then what is the point of fans, football forums, journalists, pundits etc, etc.
You miss the point. It was not about having opinions but the way those opinions were expressed. I referred to critics who called GA clueless and tactically inept as though they know more about football than he does after a lifetime in the game as player and manager. If people want to say ‘we played crap today’ or that such and such a player was ‘offered nothing ’ those are opinions and that’s fine.
So you felt the need to write a BFP article about the emotive 1-5% handful of Wycombe fans who you perceive to have thrown their toys out of the pram? What a waste of time.
If the manager was Tony Adams or Alan Smith for instance, then maybe some instruction from the terraces would be much needed.
We all love to discuss our team and what we would have done and who we would have played, why did he miss that etc, that is part of going along and supporting the club.
Alternative views are fine but I do support healthy disagreement as opposed to nastiness.
I presume that you don’t read Facebook or Twitter because the percentage of people on those platforms that I referred to in the article is greater than 1-5%.
I'm old enough to remember @oilysailor getting personally called out as part of a wider Gasroom criticism in a @glasshalffull programme column many years ago. I think it was for the free game vs Chester.
Despite so much upheaval in the world its good to know the Gasroom hasn't lost itself in the last 20 years!
Comments
I think those attacking GA are in a very small minority, so in some ways the article was unnecessary. That said it is frustrating to read the usual lazy social media comments as soon as we lose a few games. "No plan B", "tactically inept" etc etc.
Despite the win today, I still suspect we're in for a few tough weeks until the injury situation improves. So they'll probably be plenty more opportunities for the moaners.
I share your perception, @micra, though I think I might apply it more widely than to just WWFC.
Even leaving aside their playing style, which I agree is pleasing to the eye and admirably well executed, there is a lovely spirit to the women's game (currently - the first signs of "professionalism" are creeping in) that reminds one of the times when sport was a pastime whose primary purpose was to give enjoyment to the players and spectators and largely did so, win or lose. When compared to that, the (generally) remorselessly cynical and amoral (to be generous) approach present in many established professional sports, with football by some margin the market leader among mainstream sports in this respect, removes much of the potential for uplift of the spirits beyond the actual result.
For sure, both approaches represent some essential characteristics of human nature present to some degree in all of us and are thus somewhat equally representative of our species and thus capable of informing our own lives. But, given the luxury of not having to fight tooth and nail with sabre-toothed tigers and other competitors for survival every day, I know which offers more balm to my soul. Perhaps I would feel the same way even were I in that position and perhaps that is why I have the strong sense that I would have been among the first to go in prehistoric times, but there you have it. When the quality of play, as in yesterday's game, is moderate, one is left with little to appreciate beyond endeavour, honest or otherwise (though that is not nothing).
Just watched the last twenty minutes of Scotland v Wales in the women's RWC - cracking game that ended with a penalty from a little under thirty metres in front of the posts with the game tied and time up. In the men's game, a prosaic formality. In this one, far from a sure thing with even the decision whether to take the kick or to kick to touch being a balanced one. Thus, when the penalty kick went over, the level of joy resulting from the achievement was that much greater. Perhaps part of the pleasure comes from the relatability average people (me, not you, of course) find from watching players with slightly lower skill levels compared to top level male sport.
TLDR: I really enjoy watching the women's football team, too.
It’s not so much the losing that I find disappointing (though I’d obviously be happier if we were winning more games). It’s the fact that, in my perception, the idea seems to be that the only way we can preserve a lead is to sit back and defend it. I say ‘perception’ because it is difficult (for me, at least) to discern whether we are deliberately sitting back and defending a lead or are being forced back by a demonstrably superior set of players - as, for example, at Hillsborough.
Injuries have clearly been a factor in what has been a disappointing start to the season but, as someone pointed out the other day, we are currently missing only two key players - Scowen and Hanlan. I know I am far from alone in thinking that the rest of the squad are well capable of getting the ball down and passing it on the deck - just like their female counterparts. Players like Freeman, Wing and McCleary demonstrate that on a regular basis. Others perhaps less frequently.
Not sure football is the market leader in cynicism. I don’t think there has ever been an on-the-field scandal the equivalent of bloodgate in rugby union or the ubiquity of doping in cycling. It might just be that football is better at covering it up.
Now if you’re talking governance, FIFA seem to be world leaders at doing whatever it is they do. I don’t think I can call them corrupt as both Blatter and Platini were cleared of charges… but not many people think the World Cup is in Qatar for the good of football.
@micra Yeah, it's hard to say whether we're actively sitting back in games, or if the lack of defensive midfielders means we struggling to get a foothold in games. You say we're only missing 2 key players in Scowen and Hanlan, but I think we'd generally be looking to play 2 from Scowen, Thompson and Gape in midfield and at the moment all 3 are out. That leaves us without anyone who's going to scrap, win us possession and get us going. We do have plenty of ability on the pitch, but to use a cliché, it's that 'earning the right to play' element that we miss at the moment and that leaves us very reliant on our defense and the odd moment of magic from a Mehmeti or McCleary at the other end.
I don’t agree with everything Alan says, but I didn’t personally have a problem with the article. I didn’t feel like it was aimed at the vast majority of fans - who will question the manager at times but generally retain a sense of perspective, but more at the minority of bedwetters who have become increasingly vocal over the last couple of months and seem to almost enjoy seeing us lose so they can push their agenda. If you know you’re not one of those people, then you know the article wasn’t criticising you.
A few people outing themselves in this thread though.
I've wet the bed twice since childhood, due to drink, but both times in my late twenties.
POLL
How many times have you wet the bed in adulthood?
I've been thinking about this a bit (the BFP article, not seeing the bed) and amusing though it was, there's actually a serious point.
We are all in the "Wycombe bubble" (for want of a better phrase) so we understand what's going on. Alan is picking up on a few dissenting voices and writing an article saying how stupid they are and why they're wrong. We all know the vast majority of Wycombe fans love Gaz and want him to stay as long as he wants.
The trouble is there will be people reading it who don't understand that and take it as a general representation of Wycombe fans as a whole and are probably thinking "Wycombe fans seem like right divs, I don't want to go there"
So come on Alan, let's have a bit more positivity please and a more accurate portrayal of Wycombe fans. We want to encourage people to come along, not put them off.
Well said. That’s why I started this topic because I felt it was totally the wrong representation of the vast majority of Wycombe fans. I notice he’s been very quiet this weekend.
Firstly, thanks for keeping it polite. You are right to say that I picked up on a few dissenting voices, mainly on Twitter and Facebook, and on reflection I should have pointed out that they are in the minority. I think anyone who reads the sports pages of the BFP Is likely to be aware of Wycombe Wanderers so I don’t believe I will have deterred any potential fans in the manner you describe, but it’s a fair point. I stand by the general point I made about lecturing the professionals on how they should do their jobs. We don’t stand behind a plumber and tell him how to mend a leak, or instruct a mechanic on how to repair a car, but some football fans have an inflated idea of their ability to solve the manager’s problems.
Finally, it’s ironic that you urge me to be more positive because I am frequently berated on here for being overly optimistic!
FYI I posted yesterday about the Oxford game.
Have people lectured Gaz on how to do his job? Or have they simply expressed opinions on their team as literally every football fan does? You can't compare football to plumbing. The average football fan has more idea about the workings of a football team than the average punter does about how to, idk, install a shower (although as @Commoner has just pointed out, they will be able to tell someone legit from a cowboy).
There still needs to be a dialogue though. If any professional cannot see the wood for the trees, then sometimes it takes an observer to ask a question or suggest something to encourage that reflection. Why does that observer have to have done that job previously? That view is just ignorant.
I've had enough work done to my house down the years to know that if I didn't question what was going on then I would have had a sub standard job done or what I was expecting versus what was delivered were two different things.
So I disagree with this sentiment that we are not able to have an open dialogue about players and managers just because it's their trade and not ours. Where I do agree with you, is that there is a way to do that. It should be constructive, balanced, polite and well intentioned. Unfortunately, social media is a real cesspit and anyone can say what they like. Mind you the hyperbole and emotional words so called "pundits" use when reviewing games is only exacerbating the issue.
as am I!
I still honestly fancy us to reach the play offs as it goes
If you read the article in the ‘newspaper’ you think is obsolete, you will see that I refer to people criticising him for his training methods, team selection, use of substitutes etc. I think that qualifies as lecturing him on how to do his job.
I have read it, and I maintain that it comes across as snide, sneering snobbery.
You can disagree with people's opinions as vehemently as you like, but don't go telling them they shouldn't have them because they're not 'qualified'.
Perhaps because it struck a raw nerve?
That rather goes against your previous admissions that you respect my knowledge of the game. Seriously, unless they're being outright abusive, stop trying to police people's opinions.
Have a day off, Alan. Different people are allowed to interpret your article in different ways. I observed the tone as particularly condescending.
Come on now Alan, this is a bit ridiculous. A fan is not allowed to criticise a manager because of team selection and his use of substitutes? I can understand training methods to a degree but are you really being serious about the first two?
Surely that is the most basic thing that any observer of football will do. They will question whether the team selection and substitutes are right. They don't have to have managed at a professional level to have that opinion and quite frankly, they can be right without any qualification whatsoever.
When things are not going well and we are out of form, GA and Dobbo have regularly taken center mids off and put two forwards on to chase games. We end up playing 4-2-4 and not being able to win the ball in the middle of the park and we very rarely get anything out of it. For me, it really doesn't work and I do not know why we have at times continued with this tactic in seasons gone past. I'm not lecturing him how to do his job, I'm making an observation that I think this tactic does not work. I also felt Bayo and Vokes together rarely worked, they got in each others way more often than not.
Similarly, many of us feel he could make substitutions a little earlier in the game than he tends to like to do. Really what is wrong with that opinion?
If fans cannot comment on these things, then what is the point of fans, football forums, journalists, pundits etc, etc.
You miss the point. It was not about having opinions but the way those opinions were expressed. I referred to critics who called GA clueless and tactically inept as though they know more about football than he does after a lifetime in the game as player and manager. If people want to say ‘we played crap today’ or that such and such a player was ‘offered nothing ’ those are opinions and that’s fine.
So you felt the need to write a BFP article about the emotive 1-5% handful of Wycombe fans who you perceive to have thrown their toys out of the pram? What a waste of time.
If the manager was Tony Adams or Alan Smith for instance, then maybe some instruction from the terraces would be much needed.
We all love to discuss our team and what we would have done and who we would have played, why did he miss that etc, that is part of going along and supporting the club.
Alternative views are fine but I do support healthy disagreement as opposed to nastiness.
Can't we all just agree that the article is about @Quartersman80 and the rest of us can get along like one happy family.
I presume that you don’t read Facebook or Twitter because the percentage of people on those platforms that I referred to in the article is greater than 1-5%.
I'm old enough to remember @oilysailor getting personally called out as part of a wider Gasroom criticism in a @glasshalffull programme column many years ago. I think it was for the free game vs Chester.
Despite so much upheaval in the world its good to know the Gasroom hasn't lost itself in the last 20 years!
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