I've seen they're hoping to treble the WSL average attendance to 6k from 2k which would bring it to comparable attendances to L1 (although not comparable revenue due to ticket costs)
Right now it's clearly very justified to grow the women's game by subsiding it from cash from the men's game, but at what point does that stop? Investment in coaching and infrastructure is easily palatable to anyone, but are wages at the top end of the women's game if they grow to "decent" money?
In fairness, that was probably a bad example as it's a problem throughout the English game (there's been booing of the knee from Wycombe fans before, shamefully).
I've returned home from a tournament in Europe and my dad, picking me up from the airport asked if I'd managed to avoid the trouble that had been all over the newspapers
I genuinely had no idea what he was talking about. This sort of coverage is particularly pernicious of course, because it puts off decent fans from wanting to go to England games whilst appealing to the fans who revel in that sort of trouble
2016 was DEFINITELY blown out of proportion. It was one pub in the port in Marseille (the Irish pub, obviously) with a few hundred English fans in. They were attacked by a group of trained thugs. Obviously, they defended themselves. What choice did they have?
Were some of the English fans drunk? Certainly. Did some of them behave poorly? Yes.
But it was a tiny group in the grand scheme of things and they were clearly provoked.
We walked past the pub earlier in the day. Media photographers were literally lined up on one side waiting to capture events, with the police on the other. It was more or less a staged fight with zero effort made to diffuse things until it kicked off.
I’m not defending the dickheads, but they really are few and far between. Given the huge number of people that travelled for the tournament I doubt the incidence of anti social behaviour per capita was much different to an average sunny Saturday in the UK.
Have they promised a Lioness for every street? Levelling up.of Lionesses? Tax cuts for Lionesses? Or some other pledge that survives five seconds of scrutiny.
'The words that came out of my face directly into a microphone were totally misrepresented by the media...'
Commercialising it is key. There has been a lot of criticism thrown around about historic lack of ‘investment’ in women’s football. To an extent I think that’s fair, but it would be more accurate to describe it as ‘subsidy’.
I’m strongly in favour of redistributing revenues from the top of the men’s game if that cross subsidy helps gets more people into football, especially if they had limited access before. It’s the right thing to do and helps to grow interest in the game overall, which is good for everyone.
Having said that, it can’t reasonably be expected to last indefinitely and probably isn’t sustainable. So at some point needs to become commercially viable in its own right.
I’m not quite sure how that model will work - significant attendance receipts to match tier 4/5 of the men’s game (i.e enough to support a professional setup) seem some way off. I wonder if there might be some kind of approach more like rugby or cricket in which the international team is a cash cow that funds the rest of the game. Or perhaps the women’s game will be more relaxed about selling broadcast rights, accepting that it means smaller match day crowds, but greater TV revenues. I wouldn’t be surprised to see every WSL game back to back on Sky in the near future, for example.
Agreed on the need for a vastly different model to mens, interesting idea with the comparison to cricket and makes some practical sense to me, as I can't see anything more than one division sustaining itself professionally for decades, but there's obviously a wider appetite for the showcase international tournaments and club cup finals
Given the historic & current losses of the majority of both men's & women's professional football clubs I would politely suggest that for them it is a matter of semantics whether monies put in are an investment or a subsidy; I suspect that it will depend on the mindset of the owner(s).
Very few clubs even in the premiership or CL actually make a profit and most clubs rely on the largess of their owner(s).
Barclays recent sponsorship of the WSL & Championship will make a difference at that level, as will the BBC money for televising the WSL games.
What women's football actually needs is the level of "investment" in the grass roots (especially youth) game that men's football sees, whether this is in the form of grants for coaching or infrastructure, prize money for cup competitions, training of coaches & officials etc. Clubs at the level of our own Women's first should not have to pay subs (I am not suggesting they should be pro), or for their own travel to matches etc.; but they do at the moment.
That is incorrect. They have written to the Conservative leadership candidates asking for a commitment that every young girl should be allowed to play football at school. They are seeking to put right a situation that has existed for many decades under governments of every political persuasion.
It's not (I haven't thumbed you down), but they are taking on the current, Tory government - i.e. the one which has the power to make the change - so I don't see how what i said was incorrect either.
You wrote that they were taking the Tories to task which is not the case. They wrote an open letter to Sunak and Truss politely asking for their support if they became PM. I presume they would have done the same if any other party had been in power as there was nothing political about their request.
The Tory legacy for school sport is how many playing fields they have sold off over the years.
They don't care about sport, they never have. Not that it stops them jumping aboard a bandwagon every now and then if they find it politically expedient.
Was it not off the back of the Department for Education refusing to commit to changing the current guidance to ensure that girls have access to football in schools?
I have no desire to get into a discussion about politics and I do agree that the Tory record on sport is pretty awful, I am just saying that the letter from the women players was not an attack on the Tory party.
I cannot say anything about the women, but I suspect most young male footballers (not unlike most young males!) would struggle to tell you which party is in power and who the Prime Minister is. I suspect Boris Johnson (that fat thumbs up bloke with the dodgy haircut on the zipwire) is going to be the answer for about ten years...
I recall a radio vox pops about the Referendum in 2016 when a number of the youth In the Midlands sadly) said...I did not vote this time...I'll do it next year.
I was in the port in Marseille for several days before, and after, the Russia game.
There was plenty of bad behaviour among England fans. A number of times I was embarrassed by my fellow countrymen. However, I don't think the ratio of dickheads to normal people was too much higher than at a festival, Shoreditch on a Friday night or anywhere else where a lot of people are drinking. Most England fans are decent folk.
I think it was, we had the current sports minister posing for interviews outside Wembley immediately wrapping themselves in the flag and stating that there should be more investment in Women's football but it wouldn't be from them and a request to make football an option for girls at all schools was swiftly turned down.
I've been to a quite a few England games over the years, and have always had a great time, even when the games haven't always been 'classics'. I do wonder if maybe peoples expectations of what a sporting event should be like and the actual reality changes their opinion. For instance when I go to football I expect to hear incredibly foul and rude language as the norm, and possibly opinions that don't always seems right for 2022, so I ignore them and it does not affect my match day. Is that ideal, probably not, but I do feel football is slowly getting there with every season that goes by.
Comments
Back to the topic of women's football.....
I've seen they're hoping to treble the WSL average attendance to 6k from 2k which would bring it to comparable attendances to L1 (although not comparable revenue due to ticket costs)
Right now it's clearly very justified to grow the women's game by subsiding it from cash from the men's game, but at what point does that stop? Investment in coaching and infrastructure is easily palatable to anyone, but are wages at the top end of the women's game if they grow to "decent" money?
In fairness, that was probably a bad example as it's a problem throughout the English game (there's been booing of the knee from Wycombe fans before, shamefully).
I've returned home from a tournament in Europe and my dad, picking me up from the airport asked if I'd managed to avoid the trouble that had been all over the newspapers
I genuinely had no idea what he was talking about. This sort of coverage is particularly pernicious of course, because it puts off decent fans from wanting to go to England games whilst appealing to the fans who revel in that sort of trouble
And unfortunately it tends to put the foreign bill on high alert as well and lets face it does not take much to have them cracking heads.
2016 was DEFINITELY blown out of proportion. It was one pub in the port in Marseille (the Irish pub, obviously) with a few hundred English fans in. They were attacked by a group of trained thugs. Obviously, they defended themselves. What choice did they have?
Were some of the English fans drunk? Certainly. Did some of them behave poorly? Yes.
But it was a tiny group in the grand scheme of things and they were clearly provoked.
We walked past the pub earlier in the day. Media photographers were literally lined up on one side waiting to capture events, with the police on the other. It was more or less a staged fight with zero effort made to diffuse things until it kicked off.
I’m not defending the dickheads, but they really are few and far between. Given the huge number of people that travelled for the tournament I doubt the incidence of anti social behaviour per capita was much different to an average sunny Saturday in the UK.
Going back to the subject of the thread, I see the Lionesses have wasted no time in taking the Tories to task 💪
Have they promised a Lioness for every street? Levelling up.of Lionesses? Tax cuts for Lionesses? Or some other pledge that survives five seconds of scrutiny.
'The words that came out of my face directly into a microphone were totally misrepresented by the media...'
Commercialising it is key. There has been a lot of criticism thrown around about historic lack of ‘investment’ in women’s football. To an extent I think that’s fair, but it would be more accurate to describe it as ‘subsidy’.
I’m strongly in favour of redistributing revenues from the top of the men’s game if that cross subsidy helps gets more people into football, especially if they had limited access before. It’s the right thing to do and helps to grow interest in the game overall, which is good for everyone.
Having said that, it can’t reasonably be expected to last indefinitely and probably isn’t sustainable. So at some point needs to become commercially viable in its own right.
I’m not quite sure how that model will work - significant attendance receipts to match tier 4/5 of the men’s game (i.e enough to support a professional setup) seem some way off. I wonder if there might be some kind of approach more like rugby or cricket in which the international team is a cash cow that funds the rest of the game. Or perhaps the women’s game will be more relaxed about selling broadcast rights, accepting that it means smaller match day crowds, but greater TV revenues. I wouldn’t be surprised to see every WSL game back to back on Sky in the near future, for example.
Agreed on the need for a vastly different model to mens, interesting idea with the comparison to cricket and makes some practical sense to me, as I can't see anything more than one division sustaining itself professionally for decades, but there's obviously a wider appetite for the showcase international tournaments and club cup finals
Given the historic & current losses of the majority of both men's & women's professional football clubs I would politely suggest that for them it is a matter of semantics whether monies put in are an investment or a subsidy; I suspect that it will depend on the mindset of the owner(s).
Very few clubs even in the premiership or CL actually make a profit and most clubs rely on the largess of their owner(s).
Barclays recent sponsorship of the WSL & Championship will make a difference at that level, as will the BBC money for televising the WSL games.
What women's football actually needs is the level of "investment" in the grass roots (especially youth) game that men's football sees, whether this is in the form of grants for coaching or infrastructure, prize money for cup competitions, training of coaches & officials etc. Clubs at the level of our own Women's first should not have to pay subs (I am not suggesting they should be pro), or for their own travel to matches etc.; but they do at the moment.
That is incorrect. They have written to the Conservative leadership candidates asking for a commitment that every young girl should be allowed to play football at school. They are seeking to put right a situation that has existed for many decades under governments of every political persuasion.
Regardless of people’s political allegiances, what part of my post is factually incorrect?
It's not (I haven't thumbed you down), but they are taking on the current, Tory government - i.e. the one which has the power to make the change - so I don't see how what i said was incorrect either.
You wrote that they were taking the Tories to task which is not the case. They wrote an open letter to Sunak and Truss politely asking for their support if they became PM. I presume they would have done the same if any other party had been in power as there was nothing political about their request.
The Tory legacy for school sport is how many playing fields they have sold off over the years.
They don't care about sport, they never have. Not that it stops them jumping aboard a bandwagon every now and then if they find it politically expedient.
Was it not off the back of the Department for Education refusing to commit to changing the current guidance to ensure that girls have access to football in schools?
I have no desire to get into a discussion about politics and I do agree that the Tory record on sport is pretty awful, I am just saying that the letter from the women players was not an attack on the Tory party.
Nadine Dorries was buzzing when she heard Geoff Hurst had won sailing gold at the Rugby World Cup
I cannot say anything about the women, but I suspect most young male footballers (not unlike most young males!) would struggle to tell you which party is in power and who the Prime Minister is. I suspect Boris Johnson (that fat thumbs up bloke with the dodgy haircut on the zipwire) is going to be the answer for about ten years...
I recall a radio vox pops about the Referendum in 2016 when a number of the youth In the Midlands sadly) said...I did not vote this time...I'll do it next year.
I was in the port in Marseille for several days before, and after, the Russia game.
There was plenty of bad behaviour among England fans. A number of times I was embarrassed by my fellow countrymen. However, I don't think the ratio of dickheads to normal people was too much higher than at a festival, Shoreditch on a Friday night or anywhere else where a lot of people are drinking. Most England fans are decent folk.
I think it was, we had the current sports minister posing for interviews outside Wembley immediately wrapping themselves in the flag and stating that there should be more investment in Women's football but it wouldn't be from them and a request to make football an option for girls at all schools was swiftly turned down.
@StrongestTeam you sound very cynical about politicians and sport...as if they really have no interest beyond photo-ops.
Surely not, I feel you have failed to also consider kickbacks, consultancy fees, property deals and directorships
I must admit, if I was a lawmaker I would be hoovering up those free tickets like a mad thing.
Even (like they do) to see people and events I wanted stamped out and legislated against.
I've been to a quite a few England games over the years, and have always had a great time, even when the games haven't always been 'classics'. I do wonder if maybe peoples expectations of what a sporting event should be like and the actual reality changes their opinion. For instance when I go to football I expect to hear incredibly foul and rude language as the norm, and possibly opinions that don't always seems right for 2022, so I ignore them and it does not affect my match day. Is that ideal, probably not, but I do feel football is slowly getting there with every season that goes by.