Col U away, I took on several hundred Essex apes with nothing but a fence, turnstile, the rest of the Wycombe support and the best part of the pitch between us
Been to a lot of football games. Never seen any cocaine. Seen a lot of drunks causing problems, using streets as toilets, generally behaving like tw@ts, never cocaine. I must be blind.
Personally I think the rise in trouble is down to the increase in tribalism that is seen in all areas of media (social and broadcast). If you are not in favour of something you are against it. TV channels pitch upcoming games with great hype. So and so is coming back to their former club - what kind of response will they get? So and so lost earlier in the season - they will want revenge. Blah blah blah
Not sure that footballers help matters. There does seem to be an increase in goading but that might be me. No excuse for scenes with the Villa players at the weekend. Those guys could have been hurt if that bottle had hit them.
I wouldn't say it's more tribal, but there has certainly been a growing sense of it in recent years more than ever.
It's mainly due to Twitter, the fact we've had a run of important matches (Sunderland/ Oxford), and as @ReturnToSenda has mentioned, the huge accessibility of affordable cocaine.
Not sure that footballers help matters. There does seem to be an increase in goading but that might be me. No excuse for scenes with the Villa players at the weekend. Those guys could have been hurt if that bottle had hit them.
No excuse at all for missiles, but you're right that the players need a bit of sense too... they did celebrate in front of the opposition fans (not unlike the Franchise player) and Matty Cash seemed to be doing a bit of goading to me.
Since 2016, populist politicians have stoked tribalism/nationalism for their own ends (and then made sad -eyed pleas for unity) and either have no grasp of the damage they are doing or could care less about the damage they are doing. Throw in an increasingly click-bait, 'likes' hungry media and hysterical finger pointing/point scoring from all sides and you have a perfect storm. Hence a major international diplomatic problem that could lead to the football season being curtailed for everyone permanently, is either ignored or 'tough talking' idiots wave flags at it while riding on a tank.
@Username said:
Surely no one can claim football is more tribal now than in the past (70s,80s).... It's not even close.
And in between a and b) they threw punches, I've held them back...a couple of times but nothing serious at all.
In the 70's and 80's there was no immediate outlet for rage that seems so common these days. If he (it's he, it's always he) had grief with another team / player / etc you had months between games and a place to express that rage again. Now someone inclined can get themselves in a lather in a build up to a game, get triggered by others, and be a frothing mess of anger when they get to the turnstile. Add a dark fruits cider and a bit of pharma and they are good to go.
Not sure how relevant this is; I've been told by a number teachers in the past few months that there seems to be an issue since lockdown(s) and school closures, where young people/teenagers seem to have lost the ability to interact with their peer group. This had led to an escalating incidence of violence in schools.
It's almost like people might be lacking in respect for authority and think they can get away with what they like. No idea who might have contributed to that. It's perhaps a weak example below but one of so many.
@StrongestTeam said:
It's almost like people might be lacking in respect for authority and think they can get away with what they like. No idea who might have contributed to that. It's perhaps a weak example below but one of so many.
Might be venturing in to murky waters here, but I think you have a point.
The fact that the most influential politician in the country is so skilled at distancing himself from his responsibilities is a concern. It's a terrible example
@StrongestTeam said:
It's almost like people might be lacking in respect for authority and think they can get away with what they like. No idea who might have contributed to that. It's perhaps a weak example below but one of so many.
I’m no fan of Boris but it grinds my gears when I hear people ‘oh I did so and so ‘cos Boris/Dominic/any fucker did it’. If you want to be a prick own it. Stand up and proudly say you were a prick and wanted to act that way. Don’t apportion blame elsewhere. It’s a free society with free thought.
@Username said:
Surely no one can claim football is more tribal now than in the past (70s,80s).... It's not even close.
And in between a and b) they threw punches, I've held them back...a couple of times but nothing serious at all.
Yeah aggression in football is still very low by historical standards. Any minor increase in the last few years is probably linked to a multitude of factors from lockdown effects on behaviour or availability of drugs.
The theory I am interested in is have premier league clubs priced out the ‘lad market?’ Paying £80 for a ticket at Arsenal or £7 for a pint at Chelsea isn’t really inclusive of males aged 16-35. Many are probably staying local rather than getting the train into London and turning up at the likes of Wycombe/Oxford instead. Vast majority are well behaved but if you get large groups of young lads it can always get a little rowdy.
@Username said:
Surely no one can claim football is more tribal now than in the past (70s,80s).... It's not even close.
And in between a and b) they threw punches, I've held them back...a couple of times but nothing serious at all.
Yeah aggression in football is still very low by historical standards. Any minor increase in the last few years is probably linked to a multitude of factors from lockdown effects on behaviour or availability of drugs.
The theory I am interested in is have premier league clubs priced out the ‘lad market?’ Paying £80 for a ticket at Arsenal or £7 for a pint at Chelsea isn’t really inclusive of males aged 16-35. Many are probably staying local rather than getting the train into London and turning up at the likes of Wycombe/Oxford instead. Vast majority are well behaved but if you get large groups of young lads it can always get a little rowdy.
Horse racing has seen a culture of cocaine amongst some racegoers in recent years with some extraordinary incidents that would be headline news if happened at football
I went to the BMW Golf at wentworth last summer and the tented village was interesting -
Quite a few coked up/smashed 30-50 year olds. A few fights apparently on the Saturday as well. Seems to be rife at lots of sporting events.
@StrongestTeam said:
It's almost like people might be lacking in respect for authority and think they can get away with what they like. No idea who might have contributed to that. It's perhaps a weak example below but one of so many.
I’m no fan of Boris but it grinds my gears when I hear people ‘oh I did so and so ‘cos Boris/Dominic/any fucker did it’. If you want to be a prick own it. Stand up and proudly say you were a prick and wanted to act that way. Don’t apportion blame elsewhere. It’s a free society with free thought.
There is something called "leading by example". Imposing the most invasive restrictions on this country's freedom since at least WWII needed the people imposing it to not only be seen to be leading by example, but offer not a hint that they weren't. You don't need to look any further than our own Messrs Ainsworth and Dobson for an excellent example of leadership. Contrast what they do to bring everyone along with them to the likes of Johnson and his acolytes slavishly following the party line to excuse behaviour they themselves were decrying as potentially leading to a deadly disease ripping through their communities and families are as big a contrast to real leadership as I can remember from government in this country.
I was depressed enough when I realised that people actually did think a lying, serially disloyal posh, trivial, disinterested, lazy bullshine artist was the one to run the country...and in numbers. Standards are so low I doubt Party gate, whatever any investigation turns up, will make any sort of meaningful dent in his leadership.
Much like Al Capone got done on tax evasion rather than murder and extortion, perhaps Johnson will fall due to these parties rather than the litany of horrendous policies he and the Tories have or are planning to pass into law.
Comments
A question has arisen in my mind. (Anyone can answer)
What has been the most aggressive you have been at a football match towards another supporter? (your own fans or the opposition fans)
a) Punches thrown
b) Someone hold me back
c) Very harsh words
d) Give peace a chance
Feel free to add in any additional information
e) Legging it while Carlisle fans pelt you with sticks and bricks
Probably C in my younger days, too old for all that hassle these days, would rather walk to the bar for a drink
Col U away, I took on several hundred Essex apes with nothing but a fence, turnstile, the rest of the Wycombe support and the best part of the pitch between us
I thought this was going to get tasty for a second!
Been to a lot of football games. Never seen any cocaine. Seen a lot of drunks causing problems, using streets as toilets, generally behaving like tw@ts, never cocaine. I must be blind.
Personally I think the rise in trouble is down to the increase in tribalism that is seen in all areas of media (social and broadcast). If you are not in favour of something you are against it. TV channels pitch upcoming games with great hype. So and so is coming back to their former club - what kind of response will they get? So and so lost earlier in the season - they will want revenge. Blah blah blah
Not sure that footballers help matters. There does seem to be an increase in goading but that might be me. No excuse for scenes with the Villa players at the weekend. Those guys could have been hurt if that bottle had hit them.
If this escalates football everybody will just watch what they can at home.
Tribalism has got such a grip on the game now, fuelled by the cesspit of hysteria that is 'Football Twitter'.
Surely no one can claim football is more tribal now than in the past (70s,80s).... It's not even close.
And in between a and b) they threw punches, I've held them back...a couple of times but nothing serious at all.
I wouldn't say it's more tribal, but there has certainly been a growing sense of it in recent years more than ever.
It's mainly due to Twitter, the fact we've had a run of important matches (Sunderland/ Oxford), and as @ReturnToSenda has mentioned, the huge accessibility of affordable cocaine.
No excuse at all for missiles, but you're right that the players need a bit of sense too... they did celebrate in front of the opposition fans (not unlike the Franchise player) and Matty Cash seemed to be doing a bit of goading to me.
Since 2016, populist politicians have stoked tribalism/nationalism for their own ends (and then made sad -eyed pleas for unity) and either have no grasp of the damage they are doing or could care less about the damage they are doing. Throw in an increasingly click-bait, 'likes' hungry media and hysterical finger pointing/point scoring from all sides and you have a perfect storm. Hence a major international diplomatic problem that could lead to the football season being curtailed for everyone permanently, is either ignored or 'tough talking' idiots wave flags at it while riding on a tank.
In the 70's and 80's there was no immediate outlet for rage that seems so common these days. If he (it's he, it's always he) had grief with another team / player / etc you had months between games and a place to express that rage again. Now someone inclined can get themselves in a lather in a build up to a game, get triggered by others, and be a frothing mess of anger when they get to the turnstile. Add a dark fruits cider and a bit of pharma and they are good to go.
For some, the aggro, swearing, "banter" is their weekly release. Get tanked up, drugged up, all thrown into it.
It's why although aways are good at times, there's always a bit of the stand to avoid!
Not sure how relevant this is; I've been told by a number teachers in the past few months that there seems to be an issue since lockdown(s) and school closures, where young people/teenagers seem to have lost the ability to interact with their peer group. This had led to an escalating incidence of violence in schools.
It's almost like people might be lacking in respect for authority and think they can get away with what they like. No idea who might have contributed to that. It's perhaps a weak example below but one of so many.
https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-24/boris-johnson-had-birthday-bash-during-lockdown-itv-news-understands?utm_source=NewsApp&utm_medium=SocialShare
Might be venturing in to murky waters here, but I think you have a point.
The fact that the most influential politician in the country is so skilled at distancing himself from his responsibilities is a concern. It's a terrible example
I’m no fan of Boris but it grinds my gears when I hear people ‘oh I did so and so ‘cos Boris/Dominic/any fucker did it’. If you want to be a prick own it. Stand up and proudly say you were a prick and wanted to act that way. Don’t apportion blame elsewhere. It’s a free society with free thought.
Plenty of the current government are pretty flagrant with their coke habits too.
Yeah aggression in football is still very low by historical standards. Any minor increase in the last few years is probably linked to a multitude of factors from lockdown effects on behaviour or availability of drugs.
The theory I am interested in is have premier league clubs priced out the ‘lad market?’ Paying £80 for a ticket at Arsenal or £7 for a pint at Chelsea isn’t really inclusive of males aged 16-35. Many are probably staying local rather than getting the train into London and turning up at the likes of Wycombe/Oxford instead. Vast majority are well behaved but if you get large groups of young lads it can always get a little rowdy.
Decent theory
Horse racing has seen a culture of cocaine amongst some racegoers in recent years with some extraordinary incidents that would be headline news if happened at football
I went to the BMW Golf at wentworth last summer and the tented village was interesting -
Quite a few coked up/smashed 30-50 year olds. A few fights apparently on the Saturday as well. Seems to be rife at lots of sporting events.
By Gove, oops I'm mean By Jove, surely not !!
This article popped up from the Tegrelaugh. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2022/01/24/premier-league-clubs-must-increase-policing-matches-restore/?WT.mc_id=e_DM1541519&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_PrS_New&utmsource=email&utm_medium=Edi_PrS_New20220125&utm_campaign=DM1541519
The cocaine issue is indeed a lot bigger than I thought.
Sniffer dogs at football matches next?
There is something called "leading by example". Imposing the most invasive restrictions on this country's freedom since at least WWII needed the people imposing it to not only be seen to be leading by example, but offer not a hint that they weren't. You don't need to look any further than our own Messrs Ainsworth and Dobson for an excellent example of leadership. Contrast what they do to bring everyone along with them to the likes of Johnson and his acolytes slavishly following the party line to excuse behaviour they themselves were decrying as potentially leading to a deadly disease ripping through their communities and families are as big a contrast to real leadership as I can remember from government in this country.
Thank you @ReadingMarginalista, you have most eloquently provided the response to @TheAndyGrahamFanClub that I was looking for.
GA for PM!
I was depressed enough when I realised that people actually did think a lying, serially disloyal posh, trivial, disinterested, lazy bullshine artist was the one to run the country...and in numbers. Standards are so low I doubt Party gate, whatever any investigation turns up, will make any sort of meaningful dent in his leadership.
Much like Al Capone got done on tax evasion rather than murder and extortion, perhaps Johnson will fall due to these parties rather than the litany of horrendous policies he and the Tories have or are planning to pass into law.