@HolmerBlue said:
I'm English, and absolutely want nothing but the best for our national team, and I will support them every single game, it infuriates me when English people say they dont support us and prefer other countries to do better... why ??? I just can't understand it. We are not the most entertaining team to watch atm, though I did think we were much better tonight, certainly the first half anyway. I do believe we have a decent bunch of youngsters coming through, but I'm not convinced Southgate is the man to tell them what to do, can't think who else who else would be though. End of the day, we came top of the group and havnt conceded a goal yet, job done.
On the plus side, Scotland are out, great ! Fuck em, celebrating a 0-0 against us like they had won the actual cup... take that Souness
Yep.
Some Scottish fans had the cheek to give it the "och we found you out" type of stuff.
They had a woeful Euros all in. 1 goal, 2 comfortable defeats and a 0-0? Hardly a great return to tournaments.
For a forum full of older blokes I'm surprised at the surprise at England's slow start. We usually start slowly.
If we play France in the next round that is super tough to say the least. But imagine the scenes if we got through. It'd be wide open.
This is not a new thing, but something I don’t quite understand. Nearly everyone one of these players play a fast tempo, high energy game in the premier league week in week out. Players join the premier league and say ‘wow that’s difficult’. We put them in England shirts, turn the tempo down and get them to play like Serie A. And some of them look uncomfortable in that role.
Our attacking player especially seem to suffer. Kane and Rashford look inept as they are just not getting the ball quickly.
You can argue we got through the group stages without conceding but by Christ it was not good to watch. Compare that with games I’ve watched with Belgium, France and Germany where they have entertained AND won you wonder why we can’t.
@TheAndyGrahamFanClub said:
You can argue we got through the group stages without conceding but by Christ it was not good to watch. Compare that with games I’ve watched with Belgium, France and Germany where they have entertained AND won you wonder why we can’t.
Lack of entertainment you can kind of excuse, but we're not even convincing either.
@HolmerBlue said:
I'm English, and absolutely want nothing but the best for our national team, and I will support them every single game, it infuriates me when English people say they dont support us and prefer other countries to do better... why ??? I just can't understand it. We are not the most entertaining team to watch atm, though I did think we were much better tonight, certainly the first half anyway. I do believe we have a decent bunch of youngsters coming through, but I'm not convinced Southgate is the man to tell them what to do, can't think who else who else would be though. End of the day, we came top of the group and havnt conceded a goal yet, job done.
On the plus side, Scotland are out, great ! Fuck em, celebrating a 0-0 against us like they had won the actual cup... take that Souness
Yep.
Some Scottish fans had the cheek to give it the "och we found you out" type of stuff.
They had a woeful Euros all in. 1 goal, 2 comfortable defeats and a 0-0? Hardly a great return to tournaments.
For a forum full of older blokes I'm surprised at the surprise at England's slow start. We usually start slowly.
If we play France in the next round that is super tough to say the least. But imagine the scenes if we got through. It'd be wide open.
Scotland fans are rightly buoyant that they are producing a crop of quality young players of international standard for the first time in about 25 years.
If they could unearth a couple of strikers and a mobile centre half, then the heady days of the 70's,80's and early 90's, where they always seemed to qualify for tournaments could return.
I’m not going to post here and say that was an amazing game of football because . But much as I disagree that the first half was as good as the pundits said it was (it was good it fits and starts) I don’t think the second half was as poor as people are making out.
It just about got to the “ok” level of performance for me - for a team that doesn’t seem to have gotten out of 2nd gear all tournament yet and there are certainly positives that can be taken out of the campaign so far:
No new injuries (bar the isolation thing)
No bans
No goals conceded
Young players being blooded in the first team in tournament football
Large number of defenders getting game time
Rotation of defensive players and still looking quite solid
Exciting talent still available - and several of them (not just a Rooney, or an Owen, or a wallcot - ok pushing that last one a bit- but not just one young exciting player in the squad)
Those with injuries coming back and not looking way off the pace.
At the end of the day, if we George Graham our way through the competition and 1-0 all the way to the final I won’t be too upset. I don’t remember us refusing to celebrate Peter Taylor’s promotion even if it wasn’t the most entertaining of football.
I also don’t recall people demoaning Italy’s reputation of solid defensive games getting them to latter stages of the tournament.
However, and there is a big but coming here, if we play like this but don’t get through to the latter stages (semis or final) Southgate is signing his own public resignation.
Personally I think/hope that Southgate is planning on a bigger picture approach to his tactics. Solid but unspectacular through the group stages. Don’t gets hopes in the squad (or press) that it might happen this time. Pick it up now we’re in the knockouts.
We know the players are able to play attacking high paced football. They do it every week. Did anyone predict we’d get through the group stages with 3 clean sheets?
If England go out in the next round it will have been a bad tournament but if we go through the defensive approach will have been justified.
Watching England isn't watching the Premier League which is geared up for maximum entertainment.
International football is about keeping your head in the critical moments and the best team doesn't always win, it's the best setup group who can come through the tough moments without conceding.
I think Gary Neville is spot on when he says this approach is probably our best chance to beat teams like France and Germany.
On the bright side we have already done better than we did in the Eurovision Song Contest with 2 nations in the top 16.
Maybe the EU nations will find a way to vote us out of this one.
Pleased with the win and Saka and Grealish looked far more attacking. And yes it is somewhat churlish to complain about a Wycombe style performance. Hopefully more excitement to come.
Says it all really. Even the 'slowest' team in the PL last season (City) progressed the ball 60% quicker than that, and you wouldn't think of them as an especially high tempo team.
I'm quite positive about it all. Played 3, 2 wins and a draw, no goals conceded.
Most of the squad given minutes.
Realistically our central midfield is not capable of going toe to toe with Italy, France & Germany in an attacking sense. Rice and Philips are not good enough offensively but are very good defensively. Henderson cannot be expected to replicate his Liverpool 2020 form when he's only played an hour since February. Bellingham is brilliant but I'm not sure he can really carry us through a whole tournament on the front foot.
Maguire coming back in made a big difference to us going forwards, particularly his through ball to Kane when the keeper made a good save.
Southgate and the coaches have probably analysed our strengths and weaknesses and come to the conclusion the only way we progress is to grind teams down and hit them on the break. This is where our strength currently lies. If we go Gormanesque we will get battered, Tayloresque then we won't score enough but I'd like to see the Ainsworth style from 2020 that got us promoted.
Very solid at the back with protection for the defence, then hit the big teams on the counter to nick 1-0s or 2-1s. With the occasional thriller thrown in.
I suspect we will see a very different team next Tuesday and I'm hopeful we can progress against one of the group of death. I'd like to avoid France. I think we can beat Germany and Portugal.
For others lauding Germany & France, there opening game was particularly negative. France went 1-0 up and then sat back and didn't get out of 1st gear. Germany huffed and puffed but were clueless. We played very much like France did in that game against Croatia and Czech Republic.
Kane seems to be unfit and behind the pace of play but he improved last night. Foden has potential and I think he will be key in future years and maybe yet in this tournament but Saka did more in the first 30 minutes yesterday than Foden did in the first two games.
The key for me is central midfield. Philips, Rice, Henderson and Bellingham are going to have to play out of their skins for us to progress.
I'm probably missing something but if you're 1-0 and top of the group and the team you're playing against still isn't really coming out and having a go at you then why would you over-exert yourselves trying to break them down?
Might as well preserve some energy and not risk anyone getting injured and just see the game out.
I don't have any stats to back this opinion up.
If a team has a go at us and leaves a bit of space for us to attack I reckon we'll look good. If we get 1-0 ahead and they still don't, happy days, we'll take the win.
@Blue_since_1990 said:
u and we have lived nervously at times during the group stages.
Have we? Defensively I think we have looked the most solid we have done at a tournament for as long as I can remember. Defense happy (perhaps too happy) at times just to knock it around between each other. Keeper not banging it forward to a 50:50 challenge in the air everytime he gets it.
Maybe I careless about the English Teams progression than I have in the past, but bar 1 or 2 chances last night, I've not yet felt a goal was coming or nervous we might conceed at any moment a pass might to astray.
@Blue_since_1990 said:
For me the key issue is that playing this system allows teams to come into you and we have lived nervously at times during the group stages.
I think but hope not, that better teams will take advantage of some the lapses and nervousness we saw last night and against the Croatians.
I think if we get to the quarter finals we would have done really well.
Do you think they ‘came at us’ last night? For me the game last night was done from the moment we scored. It would have been a major shock if either team had scored after that. They didn’t lay a glove on us to mix my sporting metaphors
@Blue_since_1990 said:
For me the key issue is that playing this system allows teams to come into you and we have lived nervously at times during the group stages.
I think but hope not, that better teams will take advantage of some the lapses and nervousness we saw last night and against the Croatians.
I think if we get to the quarter finals we would have done really well.
Comments
strewth.
It infuriates me when people lecture me on who I should support…
Yep.
Some Scottish fans had the cheek to give it the "och we found you out" type of stuff.
They had a woeful Euros all in. 1 goal, 2 comfortable defeats and a 0-0? Hardly a great return to tournaments.
For a forum full of older blokes I'm surprised at the surprise at England's slow start. We usually start slowly.
If we play France in the next round that is super tough to say the least. But imagine the scenes if we got through. It'd be wide open.
This is not a new thing, but something I don’t quite understand. Nearly everyone one of these players play a fast tempo, high energy game in the premier league week in week out. Players join the premier league and say ‘wow that’s difficult’. We put them in England shirts, turn the tempo down and get them to play like Serie A. And some of them look uncomfortable in that role.
Our attacking player especially seem to suffer. Kane and Rashford look inept as they are just not getting the ball quickly.
You can argue we got through the group stages without conceding but by Christ it was not good to watch. Compare that with games I’ve watched with Belgium, France and Germany where they have entertained AND won you wonder why we can’t.
I don’t think it’s mandatory to watch
Lack of entertainment you can kind of excuse, but we're not even convincing either.
Scotland fans are rightly buoyant that they are producing a crop of quality young players of international standard for the first time in about 25 years.
If they could unearth a couple of strikers and a mobile centre half, then the heady days of the 70's,80's and early 90's, where they always seemed to qualify for tournaments could return.
I’m not going to post here and say that was an amazing game of football because . But much as I disagree that the first half was as good as the pundits said it was (it was good it fits and starts) I don’t think the second half was as poor as people are making out.
It just about got to the “ok” level of performance for me - for a team that doesn’t seem to have gotten out of 2nd gear all tournament yet and there are certainly positives that can be taken out of the campaign so far:
No new injuries (bar the isolation thing)
No bans
No goals conceded
Young players being blooded in the first team in tournament football
Large number of defenders getting game time
Rotation of defensive players and still looking quite solid
Exciting talent still available - and several of them (not just a Rooney, or an Owen, or a wallcot - ok pushing that last one a bit- but not just one young exciting player in the squad)
Those with injuries coming back and not looking way off the pace.
At the end of the day, if we George Graham our way through the competition and 1-0 all the way to the final I won’t be too upset. I don’t remember us refusing to celebrate Peter Taylor’s promotion even if it wasn’t the most entertaining of football.
I also don’t recall people demoaning Italy’s reputation of solid defensive games getting them to latter stages of the tournament.
However, and there is a big but coming here, if we play like this but don’t get through to the latter stages (semis or final) Southgate is signing his own public resignation.
Personally I think/hope that Southgate is planning on a bigger picture approach to his tactics. Solid but unspectacular through the group stages. Don’t gets hopes in the squad (or press) that it might happen this time. Pick it up now we’re in the knockouts.
We know the players are able to play attacking high paced football. They do it every week. Did anyone predict we’d get through the group stages with 3 clean sheets?
If England go out in the next round it will have been a bad tournament but if we go through the defensive approach will have been justified.
Watching England isn't watching the Premier League which is geared up for maximum entertainment.
International football is about keeping your head in the critical moments and the best team doesn't always win, it's the best setup group who can come through the tough moments without conceding.
I think Gary Neville is spot on when he says this approach is probably our best chance to beat teams like France and Germany.
On the bright side we have already done better than we did in the Eurovision Song Contest with 2 nations in the top 16.
Maybe the EU nations will find a way to vote us out of this one.
Pleased with the win and Saka and Grealish looked far more attacking. And yes it is somewhat churlish to complain about a Wycombe style performance. Hopefully more excitement to come.
Says it all really. Even the 'slowest' team in the PL last season (City) progressed the ball 60% quicker than that, and you wouldn't think of them as an especially high tempo team.
The same City who won the league at a canter?
Playing at a considerably higher tempo than England are...
It might be alright if we were doing something with the ball, but we're not. Got to step it up in the next round.
I'm quite positive about it all. Played 3, 2 wins and a draw, no goals conceded.
Most of the squad given minutes.
Realistically our central midfield is not capable of going toe to toe with Italy, France & Germany in an attacking sense. Rice and Philips are not good enough offensively but are very good defensively. Henderson cannot be expected to replicate his Liverpool 2020 form when he's only played an hour since February. Bellingham is brilliant but I'm not sure he can really carry us through a whole tournament on the front foot.
Maguire coming back in made a big difference to us going forwards, particularly his through ball to Kane when the keeper made a good save.
Southgate and the coaches have probably analysed our strengths and weaknesses and come to the conclusion the only way we progress is to grind teams down and hit them on the break. This is where our strength currently lies. If we go Gormanesque we will get battered, Tayloresque then we won't score enough but I'd like to see the Ainsworth style from 2020 that got us promoted.
Very solid at the back with protection for the defence, then hit the big teams on the counter to nick 1-0s or 2-1s. With the occasional thriller thrown in.
I suspect we will see a very different team next Tuesday and I'm hopeful we can progress against one of the group of death. I'd like to avoid France. I think we can beat Germany and Portugal.
For others lauding Germany & France, there opening game was particularly negative. France went 1-0 up and then sat back and didn't get out of 1st gear. Germany huffed and puffed but were clueless. We played very much like France did in that game against Croatia and Czech Republic.
Kane seems to be unfit and behind the pace of play but he improved last night. Foden has potential and I think he will be key in future years and maybe yet in this tournament but Saka did more in the first 30 minutes yesterday than Foden did in the first two games.
The key for me is central midfield. Philips, Rice, Henderson and Bellingham are going to have to play out of their skins for us to progress.
Any chance you might be thinking England are better than they actually are? I have never seen anyone more annoyed by a low direct speed up the pitch.
I'm probably missing something but if you're 1-0 and top of the group and the team you're playing against still isn't really coming out and having a go at you then why would you over-exert yourselves trying to break them down?
Might as well preserve some energy and not risk anyone getting injured and just see the game out.
I don't have any stats to back this opinion up.
If a team has a go at us and leaves a bit of space for us to attack I reckon we'll look good. If we get 1-0 ahead and they still don't, happy days, we'll take the win.
For me the key issue is that playing this system allows teams to come into you and we have lived nervously at times during the group stages.
I think but hope not, that better teams will take advantage of some the lapses and nervousness we saw last night and against the Croatians.
I think if we get to the quarter finals we would have done really well.
I think we want teams to have a go at us though don't we?
Have we? Defensively I think we have looked the most solid we have done at a tournament for as long as I can remember. Defense happy (perhaps too happy) at times just to knock it around between each other. Keeper not banging it forward to a 50:50 challenge in the air everytime he gets it.
Maybe I careless about the English Teams progression than I have in the past, but bar 1 or 2 chances last night, I've not yet felt a goal was coming or nervous we might conceed at any moment a pass might to astray.
Do you think they ‘came at us’ last night? For me the game last night was done from the moment we scored. It would have been a major shock if either team had scored after that. They didn’t lay a glove on us to mix my sporting metaphors
I think this is spot on
Have you ever been to a match?
I missed the Croatia game, but i never once thought Scotland would score, and the closest the Czechs came was when Pickford gave them the ball.
Well Spain are making me feel slightly better about England! Some tournament Morata is having.
Oh wow, Martin Dubravka
I’m Spanish now.
Slovakia are absolutely abysmal
Hola @drcongo!??