@ReturnToSenda said:
The Lavelle rumous are the interesting part. Either they were bullshit - quite possible - or a move did fall through and Gaz and Dobbo have since seen more in the development lads in the last couple of weeks (well, maybe only CFJ as I believe Wakely has been injured). Either way, I don't doubt for a minute that they've made the right call.
We probably are a little light at LWB, but we converted Fred and I'm sure we can convert someone again (maybe we already have). We've got McCarthy and Freeman at RWB - presumably Wheeler (who I think would be the best back-up option of the lot) and possibly Grimmer too - we've just been ridiculously unlucky with the amount of injuries we've had together. You can't have endless depth 'just in case'; there comes a point where you just have to adapt, as we're seeing at the moment.
But from what Gaz said, I expect we'll see one or two FAs through the door in the coming weeks.
The trouble is that (while we can certainly get by) we have only two real wingbacks at the club in McCarthy and Obita, and that worries me if we want to consistently play a wingback formation. We’re not that light in any other position. We’ve seen with Kaikai, and the impact on Grimmer, the stress put on the team by not playing a positionally aware wingback.
Out-and-out wing-backs are few and far between - we're lucky to have two - as they're pretty much converted full-backs or wingers, and just because Kaikai hasn't taken to the role yet doesn't mean he won't or that we can't convert others.
Wheeler will turn out to be the right wingback of our dreams. Left side I agree we need cover (or even first choice, still not 100% convinced by Obita though he's gradually winning me around).
@drcongo said:
Wheeler will turn out to be the right wingback of our dreams. Left side I agree we need cover (or even first choice, still not 100% convinced by Obita though he's gradually winning me around).
I think Wheeler could easily play on either side - has been very effective as a 'dummy full-back' in front of JJ in the past.
I think Wheeler will shine at RWB (or left if called upon). And he will give us another focus point for goal kicks and long passes from Stocko as he is an outstanding header of the ball.
@Forest_Blue, yes maybe Wheeler can step into wingback position, he is certainly clever enough but that means that even with Stewart and Tafazolli fit we will be playing a full back in the third centre back spot unless young Wakeley can step up to that third CB slot.
Hopefully James Clark can impress in a wing-back role tonight. Both him and Forino-Joseph have been recovering from injuries and have almost been the forgotten men of the development squad. Would be wonderful to have the right players already in the squad.
Also wondering whether Ainsworth may be referring to Burley as the player who needs to be playing and could head out on loan? Obviously he made the squad at the weekend but he was rumoured to be on trial at Swindon earlier this summer. But maybe he can only be allowed to head out if we do get a deal over the line for another defender.
@ReturnToSenda said:
The Lavelle rumous are the interesting part. Either they were bullshit - quite possible - or a move did fall through and Gaz and Dobbo have since seen more in the development lads in the last couple of weeks (well, maybe only CFJ as I believe Wakely has been injured). Either way, I don't doubt for a minute that they've made the right call.
We probably are a little light at LWB, but we converted Fred and I'm sure we can convert someone again (maybe we already have). We've got McCarthy and Freeman at RWB - presumably Wheeler (who I think would be the best back-up option of the lot) and possibly Grimmer too - we've just been ridiculously unlucky with the amount of injuries we've had together. You can't have endless depth 'just in case'; there comes a point where you just have to adapt, as we're seeing at the moment.
But from what Gaz said, I expect we'll see one or two FAs through the door in the coming weeks.
I'm fairly certain that the Lavelle transfer was very close to being completed however I think the goalposts were moved at the last minute which caused the parties to go separate ways. I would like to think that Wakely is young enough to be converted into a wingback and that he gets an opportunity as he's a local lad!
@ReturnToSenda said:
The Lavelle rumous are the interesting part. Either they were bullshit - quite possible - or a move did fall through and Gaz and Dobbo have since seen more in the development lads in the last couple of weeks (well, maybe only CFJ as I believe Wakely has been injured). Either way, I don't doubt for a minute that they've made the right call.
We probably are a little light at LWB, but we converted Fred and I'm sure we can convert someone again (maybe we already have). We've got McCarthy and Freeman at RWB - presumably Wheeler (who I think would be the best back-up option of the lot) and possibly Grimmer too - we've just been ridiculously unlucky with the amount of injuries we've had together. You can't have endless depth 'just in case'; there comes a point where you just have to adapt, as we're seeing at the moment.
But from what Gaz said, I expect we'll see one or two FAs through the door in the coming weeks.
I'm fairly certain that the Lavelle transfer was very close to being completed however I think the goalposts were moved at the last minute which caused the parties to go separate ways. I would like to think that Wakely is young enough to be converted into a wingback and that he gets an opportunity as he's a local lad!
Are you a friend or family of Jack’s. you registered the day he signed
Just watched the GA tribute to Scotty and Alex. Fantastic tribute and makes you feel very proud of our club and how we develop people and not just players. Gareth obviously very upset that he had to let the two of them go.
Hmm, you don't really want to go chopping and changing the system unnecessarily. If we're still having the same problems a month or so from now, maybe, but I'd say we're coping pretty well at the moment.
@ReturnToSenda said:
The Lavelle rumous are the interesting part. Either they were bullshit - quite possible - or a move did fall through and Gaz and Dobbo have since seen more in the development lads in the last couple of weeks (well, maybe only CFJ as I believe Wakely has been injured). Either way, I don't doubt for a minute that they've made the right call.
We probably are a little light at LWB, but we converted Fred and I'm sure we can convert someone again (maybe we already have). We've got McCarthy and Freeman at RWB - presumably Wheeler (who I think would be the best back-up option of the lot) and possibly Grimmer too - we've just been ridiculously unlucky with the amount of injuries we've had together. You can't have endless depth 'just in case'; there comes a point where you just have to adapt, as we're seeing at the moment.
But from what Gaz said, I expect we'll see one or two FAs through the door in the coming weeks.
I'm fairly certain that the Lavelle transfer was very close to being completed however I think the goalposts were moved at the last minute which caused the parties to go separate ways. I would like to think that Wakely is young enough to be converted into a wingback and that he gets an opportunity as he's a local lad!
Wakeley is a CB isn't he? I mean I like a wingback as much as the next fan but surely we cannot be trying to convert everyone ?
It does seem to suggest that the injury list isn't quite as bleak as it looks (cue Freeman and Stewart being out until January) and this feels like the right approach.
We have done the right thing with releasing Scotty and Alex from their contracts to allow them to pursue first team football elsewhere and there is little sense in joining the bunfight on transfer deadline day as when the dust settles there are likely to be quite a few decent footballers who don't make the squad list and available as a free agent with hopefully something to prove (and relatively low wages I would imagine).
It also presumably offers hope and encouragement to the development squad players, who could see the chance of stepping up.
As others have said, our lack of movement in the loan market this window is very interesting. It does seem to suggest a change of approach. I wonder now that we are no longer "poor little penniless Wycombe" whether clubs higher up are more inclined us to ask us to pay a higher percentage of any loanee's wages. I guess it cant be that good business to pay a player £x000 a week to develop them into first team footballers only for them to return to their parent club who reap the benefit the following season (or whenever)
@ReturnToSenda said:
Hmm, you don't really want to go chopping and changing the system unnecessarily. If we're still having the same problems a month or so from now, maybe, but I'd say we're coping pretty well at the moment.
Whilst we have the injuries we do, I think it is something to seriously consider. It's not a huge change is it? Most of the players would be used to it. It's only Vokes, Kaikai and Scowen in that XI who hadn't played in that system for us previously.
I'd much rather have Kaikai right up the pitch than playing RWB.
We should also have two formations that we can interchange between regularly dependent on personnel available and the opposition.
@ReturnToSenda said:
Hmm, you don't really want to go chopping and changing the system unnecessarily. If we're still having the same problems a month or so from now, maybe, but I'd say we're coping pretty well at the moment.
Whilst we have the injuries we do, I think it is something to seriously consider. It's not a huge change is it? Most of the players would be used to it. It's only Vokes, Kaikai and Scowen in that XI who hadn't played in that system for us previously.
I'd much rather have Kaikai right up the pitch than playing RWB.
We should also have two formations that we can interchange between regularly dependent on personnel available and the opposition.
It is a fairly significant change when you consider that we'd lose the element that has been key to our open play attacking threat so far: that narrow triangle of Vokes +2. Gaz himself has said that he won't necessarily always play this system - and there will be the odd situation that calls for something else, as we saw in the second half against Wigan - but changing formations regularly isn't exactly conducive to consistency, especially when it's still such a new system.
Interesting that Kadeem Harris is still unattached. There’s a player who could offer cover in both the left and right wing back roles. He played in both positions for Sheff Wed last season.
Looks like he was on trial at Reading and expected to sign but it ultimately fell through.
Two of McCarthy, Obita and Harris in those two positions would be a pre
@ReturnToSenda said:
The Lavelle rumous are the interesting part. Either they were bullshit - quite possible - or a move did fall through and Gaz and Dobbo have since seen more in the development lads in the last couple of weeks (well, maybe only CFJ as I believe Wakely has been injured). Either way, I don't doubt for a minute that they've made the right call.
We probably are a little light at LWB, but we converted Fred and I'm sure we can convert someone again (maybe we already have). We've got McCarthy and Freeman at RWB - presumably Wheeler (who I think would be the best back-up option of the lot) and possibly Grimmer too - we've just been ridiculously unlucky with the amount of injuries we've had together. You can't have endless depth 'just in case'; there comes a point where you just have to adapt, as we're seeing at the moment.
But from what Gaz said, I expect we'll see one or two FAs through the door in the coming weeks.
I'm fairly certain that the Lavelle transfer was very close to being completed however I think the goalposts were moved at the last minute which caused the parties to go separate ways. I would like to think that Wakely is young enough to be converted into a wingback and that he gets an opportunity as he's a local lad!
Wakeley? He's 6ft 4 or so, and you really can't imagine him bombing up and down the wing all game!
I know Brighton have an even lankier guy out wide at times, but it doesn't look right at all. Or really work.
It's quite funny that after years of saying GA has no plan B...many do not seem to want him to move away from the present formation in case it undermines consistency.
It is a fairly significant change when you consider that we'd lose the element that has been key to our open play attacking threat so far: that narrow triangle of Vokes +2. Gaz himself has said that he won't necessarily always play this system - and there will be the odd situation that calls for something else, as we saw in the second half against Wigan - but changing formations regularly isn't exactly conducive to consistency, especially when it's still such a new system.
It's the same system we got promoted with and played a predominant amount with last season, it's hardly a significant change. It was extremely successful over a few seasons.
I agree that 3-4-3 gives us more attacking threat, certainly in the Championship, with the higher quality of defences. However, this season I'm not sure we need to rigidly stick to it if injuries mean we have too many square pegs in round holes.
Let's face it Fred was only selected at left wing back as a last resort as Obita and Tafazolli were injured, meaning JJ moved to LCB. Fred was then brilliant, I suspect beyond everyone's expectations. I just don't see the same happening with Kaikai.
If McCarthy/Freeman are out for any length of time and Wheeler isn't given a run there, I'd much rather play 4-3-3 with Kaikai and out and out attacking force.
Comments
Out-and-out wing-backs are few and far between - we're lucky to have two - as they're pretty much converted full-backs or wingers, and just because Kaikai hasn't taken to the role yet doesn't mean he won't or that we can't convert others.
Wheeler will turn out to be the right wingback of our dreams. Left side I agree we need cover (or even first choice, still not 100% convinced by Obita though he's gradually winning me around).
I feel that we really did need to get a centre back and a RWB at least. Maybe the finances are not there to support the ambitions but we will see.
I just hope we do not look back on this window and say if only.
Probably got too excited by the rumours and now a bit deflated but onward and upward COYB!!!!!
I think Wheeler could easily play on either side - has been very effective as a 'dummy full-back' in front of JJ in the past.
I refuse to ever believe in a right-footed leftback or left-wingback. It's just not what nature intended.
I think Wheeler will shine at RWB (or left if called upon). And he will give us another focus point for goal kicks and long passes from Stocko as he is an outstanding header of the ball.
@Forest_Blue, yes maybe Wheeler can step into wingback position, he is certainly clever enough but that means that even with Stewart and Tafazolli fit we will be playing a full back in the third centre back spot unless young Wakeley can step up to that third CB slot.
If JJ ever lines up at wing-back, I'm taking a blindfold to the game.
[Paolo Maldini has entered the chat]
Hopefully James Clark can impress in a wing-back role tonight. Both him and Forino-Joseph have been recovering from injuries and have almost been the forgotten men of the development squad. Would be wonderful to have the right players already in the squad.
Also wondering whether Ainsworth may be referring to Burley as the player who needs to be playing and could head out on loan? Obviously he made the squad at the weekend but he was rumoured to be on trial at Swindon earlier this summer. But maybe he can only be allowed to head out if we do get a deal over the line for another defender.
I'm fairly certain that the Lavelle transfer was very close to being completed however I think the goalposts were moved at the last minute which caused the parties to go separate ways. I would like to think that Wakely is young enough to be converted into a wingback and that he gets an opportunity as he's a local lad!
I'd much rather see us revert to playing 4-3-3 if we don't have enough wingback / centre back coverage.
Stockdale
Grimmer Stewart Tafazolli Jacobson
Scowen Thompson Wheeler
Kaikai Vokes McCleary
Hanlon, Horgan, Mehmeti, Bayo, Freeman all provide good options in this system offensively.
I think I prefer that to shoehorning in wingbacks when they don’t fit.
Are you a friend or family of Jack’s. you registered the day he signed
Just watched the GA tribute to Scotty and Alex. Fantastic tribute and makes you feel very proud of our club and how we develop people and not just players. Gareth obviously very upset that he had to let the two of them go.
Hmm, you don't really want to go chopping and changing the system unnecessarily. If we're still having the same problems a month or so from now, maybe, but I'd say we're coping pretty well at the moment.
Wakeley is a CB isn't he? I mean I like a wingback as much as the next fan but surely we cannot be trying to convert everyone ?
It does seem to suggest that the injury list isn't quite as bleak as it looks (cue Freeman and Stewart being out until January) and this feels like the right approach.
We have done the right thing with releasing Scotty and Alex from their contracts to allow them to pursue first team football elsewhere and there is little sense in joining the bunfight on transfer deadline day as when the dust settles there are likely to be quite a few decent footballers who don't make the squad list and available as a free agent with hopefully something to prove (and relatively low wages I would imagine).
It also presumably offers hope and encouragement to the development squad players, who could see the chance of stepping up.
As others have said, our lack of movement in the loan market this window is very interesting. It does seem to suggest a change of approach. I wonder now that we are no longer "poor little penniless Wycombe" whether clubs higher up are more inclined us to ask us to pay a higher percentage of any loanee's wages. I guess it cant be that good business to pay a player £x000 a week to develop them into first team footballers only for them to return to their parent club who reap the benefit the following season (or whenever)
I wonder if it’s a reaction to none of Knight, Adeniran or Muskwe signing in the summer.
Whilst we have the injuries we do, I think it is something to seriously consider. It's not a huge change is it? Most of the players would be used to it. It's only Vokes, Kaikai and Scowen in that XI who hadn't played in that system for us previously.
I'd much rather have Kaikai right up the pitch than playing RWB.
We should also have two formations that we can interchange between regularly dependent on personnel available and the opposition.
I'm planning on leaving all this personnel stuff to Gareth. It can be quite stressful.
It is a fairly significant change when you consider that we'd lose the element that has been key to our open play attacking threat so far: that narrow triangle of Vokes +2. Gaz himself has said that he won't necessarily always play this system - and there will be the odd situation that calls for something else, as we saw in the second half against Wigan - but changing formations regularly isn't exactly conducive to consistency, especially when it's still such a new system.
Oh.
Interesting that Kadeem Harris is still unattached. There’s a player who could offer cover in both the left and right wing back roles. He played in both positions for Sheff Wed last season.
Looks like he was on trial at Reading and expected to sign but it ultimately fell through.
Two of McCarthy, Obita and Harris in those two positions would be a pre
We're leaving it very late again this year if we're going to re-sign Guy Branston.
Wakeley? He's 6ft 4 or so, and you really can't imagine him bombing up and down the wing all game!
I know Brighton have an even lankier guy out wide at times, but it doesn't look right at all. Or really work.
and British Gas
It's quite funny that after years of saying GA has no plan B...many do not seem to want him to move away from the present formation in case it undermines consistency.
It's the same system we got promoted with and played a predominant amount with last season, it's hardly a significant change. It was extremely successful over a few seasons.
I agree that 3-4-3 gives us more attacking threat, certainly in the Championship, with the higher quality of defences. However, this season I'm not sure we need to rigidly stick to it if injuries mean we have too many square pegs in round holes.
Let's face it Fred was only selected at left wing back as a last resort as Obita and Tafazolli were injured, meaning JJ moved to LCB. Fred was then brilliant, I suspect beyond everyone's expectations. I just don't see the same happening with Kaikai.
If McCarthy/Freeman are out for any length of time and Wheeler isn't given a run there, I'd much rather play 4-3-3 with Kaikai and out and out attacking force.