@Username said:
A really doubt that Rob would have bothered if the claim was under £100k
Depends if it’s the principle of the matter and not looking for a financial penalty to hit Derby with.
He’s always scoffed at the idea out claim is holding up any take over maybe this is why. He just wants a line in the sand that shows derby recognise they cheated us out of our place in the championship
@Username said:
A really doubt that Rob would have bothered if the claim was under £100k
Depends if it’s the principle of the matter and not looking for a financial penalty to hit Derby with.
He’s always scoffed at the idea out claim is holding up any take over maybe this is why. He just wants a line in the sand that shows derby recognise they cheated us out of our place in the championship
It's not the financial penalty that hits Derby that Wycombe care about, it's the recouping of money that should be ours.
I expect the "under 6 figures" info came from the Derby side as a hope, no way Rob would have leaked that info
Why the hell would anyone buy into this club when you have statements like this coming out.
Looks like they (as a club) will never learn.
Yes it might take a couple of years to suit themselves out but it will be worth it in the long run. The quick fix solution (that this article seems to suggest) is never good for long term planning.
Imagine how the current first team players feel having it announced in the national press that he wants to replace them all in the summer. Looking forward to this ending their hopes of survival.
@Username said:
A really doubt that Rob would have bothered if the claim was under £100k
Depends if it’s the principle of the matter and not looking for a financial penalty to hit Derby with.
He’s always scoffed at the idea out claim is holding up any take over maybe this is why. He just wants a line in the sand that shows derby recognise they cheated us out of our place in the championship
It's not the financial penalty that hits Derby that Wycombe care about, it's the recouping of money that should be ours.
I expect the "under 6 figures" info came from the Derby side as a hope, no way Rob would have leaked that info
I could be wholly wrong but the one thing that jumps out at me when RC talks is two fold: 1. doing the right thing and 2. Playing by the rules.
We have seen a number of things (not least Nick Freeman getting a contract extension when injuries) in regards to doing the right thing and he has said one of the fundamental attractions to English League Football was fair play and playing by the rules.
I made a comment about 4000 pages again that we didn’t know the value RC would settle for and I made a slightly tongue in cheek comment that it could be £1 for all we know.
My feeling, and it is only a feeling, is that RC wouldn’t see us being the reason for Derby going out of business as “doing the right thing” and he would settle for significantly less than was reported, if only Derbys administrators got on the phone to him.
I think them ignoring us Irked him somewhat and why he stuck to his guns and quietly kept his council on an acceptable figure until someone talked to him.
@drcongo said:
Imagine how the current first team players feel having it announced in the national press that he wants to replace them all in the summer. Looking forward to this ending their hopes of survival.
@drcongo said:
Imagine how the current first team players feel having it announced in the national press that he wants to replace them all in the summer. Looking forward to this ending their hopes of survival.
Worth remembering this could be less than six figures by Wayne Rooneys Derby County accounting practice so if their attitude to their increasing debt is anything to go by I’m hopeful of an eight figure settlement . They can’t count very well
@Username said:
A really doubt that Rob would have bothered if the claim was under £100k
Depends if it’s the principle of the matter and not looking for a financial penalty to hit Derby with.
He’s always scoffed at the idea out claim is holding up any take over maybe this is why. He just wants a line in the sand that shows derby recognise they cheated us out of our place in the championship
It's not the financial penalty that hits Derby that Wycombe care about, it's the recouping of money that should be ours.
I expect the "under 6 figures" info came from the Derby side as a hope, no way Rob would have leaked that info
I could be wholly wrong but the one thing that jumps out at me when RC talks is two fold: 1. doing the right thing and 2. Playing by the rules.
We have seen a number of things (not least Nick Freeman getting a contract extension when injuries) in regards to doing the right thing and he has said one of the fundamental attractions to English League Football was fair play and playing by the rules.
I made a comment about 4000 pages again that we didn’t know the value RC would settle for and I made a slightly tongue in cheek comment that it could be £1 for all we know.
My feeling, and it is only a feeling, is that RC wouldn’t see us being the reason for Derby going out of business as “doing the right thing” and he would settle for significantly less than was reported, if only Derbys administrators got on the phone to him.
I think them ignoring us Irked him somewhat and why he stuck to his guns and quietly kept his council on an acceptable figure until someone talked to him.
Quite likely that this is all BS. It's possible Gibson came down from a very hopeful £40m to £7m or £8m paid over a period of time which is still not to be sniffed at and they hope we'd settle for similar percentages but I'm not sure how they get to any of that before they actually talk.
I'd enjoy being a fly on the wall if they march in to the tax man with the same approach. Seems to be mostly a combo of - Day is night, black is white, don't you know who I am , think of the kids, and will you take a fiver and go away.
Once again any modicum of sympathy I had for Derby fans evaporated after reading their comments about this on Twitter. Peterborough might be stinking out the Championship but Derby fans' sense of entitlement reeks to high heaven.
@HolmerBlue said:
Tbh @Raminpeace the more and more I read about it, us and Boro were definitely not the problem, ** I'd say your main problem has been the administrators** ! Having gone online yesterday, it was absolutely incredible to see your supporters click straight back into piss taking mode as soon as they thought their club was safe ! Taking the piss out of us and Boro. I wonder why you didn't have much support from other clubs ?!
BTW, I'm glad it's sorted, and it would seem its sorted without us having to do a deal atm... so will all the Derby fans accusing us of sending their team into liquidation unless we pulled out apologise ? as it clearly not been the case, I won't be holding my breath
Quantuma would beg to differ but, then again, they would, wouldn't they? Their stance is that the 2 claims had no basis which is why they didn't entertain them or enter into dialogue. That led to the 2 claims being up in the air and the prospective buyers being unwilling to commit until there was some clarity. The Mel stepped up and spoke with Gibson and they reached an agreement, the contents of which nobody knows. Has he agreed to pay Boro off? Has he added a caveat in which neither he nor DCFC admit "guilt". Have they merely agreed to take it to the High Court with Mel underwriting any award? I have no idea.
Wycombe? Is that still up in the air? I've seen rumours that Couhig has flown over for talks. Are they true? Has he spoken to Mel? I presume they will talk at some point. Probably a similar agreement to the Boro one, one would think. I still think that at least some of your gripe should be aimed at the EFL. It is they who took until well into this season to decide what to punish Derby with. Admittedly, Derby did get 2 extensions but the EFL also procrastinated in convening the first tribunal, which met late on. The verdict from the tribunal took ages. EFL then took every day of the month allowed to decide to appeal, more months passed before the appeal was heard, idem ditto with the verdict..... if we'd been docked points last season, which could have happened if the EFL hadn't dragged their feet, we couldn't have complained. That it didn't happen last season is, IMO, more the EFLs problem than ours. Thankfully, the whole sorry mess looks like being solved, finally. Hopefully, everybody can live with the outcome.
15 games to go. 30 points from them should guarantee at least a playoff place.
Finally, I'd like to thank you all for being reasonable in our exchanges. I've also been conversing on a Boro forum and been well "treated" there as well.
@HolmerBlue said:
Tbh @Raminpeace the more and more I read about it, us and Boro were definitely not the problem, ** I'd say your main problem has been the administrators** ! Having gone online yesterday, it was absolutely incredible to see your supporters click straight back into piss taking mode as soon as they thought their club was safe ! Taking the piss out of us and Boro. I wonder why you didn't have much support from other clubs ?!
BTW, I'm glad it's sorted, and it would seem its sorted without us having to do a deal atm... so will all the Derby fans accusing us of sending their team into liquidation unless we pulled out apologise ? as it clearly not been the case, I won't be holding my breath
Quantuma would beg to differ but, then again, they would, wouldn't they? Their stance is that the 2 claims had no basis which is why they didn't entertain them or enter into dialogue. That led to the 2 claims being up in the air and the prospective buyers being unwilling to commit until there was some clarity. The Mel stepped up and spoke with Gibson and they reached an agreement, the contents of which nobody knows. Has he agreed to pay Boro off? Has he added a caveat in which neither he nor DCFC admit "guilt". Have they merely agreed to take it to the High Court with Mel underwriting any award? I have no idea.
Wycombe? Is that still up in the air? I've seen rumours that Couhig has flown over for talks. Are they true? Has he spoken to Mel? I presume they will talk at some point. Probably a similar agreement to the Boro one, one would think. I still think that at least some of your gripe should be aimed at the EFL. It is they who took until well into this season to decide what to punish Derby with. Admittedly, Derby did get 2 extensions but the EFL also procrastinated in convening the first tribunal, which met late on. The verdict from the tribunal took ages. EFL then took every day of the month allowed to decide to appeal, more months passed before the appeal was heard, idem ditto with the verdict..... if we'd been docked points last season, which could have happened if the EFL hadn't dragged their feet, we couldn't have complained. That it didn't happen last season is, IMO, more the EFLs problem than ours. Thankfully, the whole sorry mess looks like being solved, finally. Hopefully, everybody can live with the outcome.
15 games to go. 30 points from them should guarantee at least a playoff place.
Finally, I'd like to thank you all for being reasonable in our exchanges. I've also been conversing on a Boro forum and been well "treated" there as well.
"Thankfully, the whole sorry mess looks like being solved, finally."
Let's hope so for your sake @Raminpeace From this side it just looks like one issue (that both one bidder and many of your fans maintain wasn't an issue) has been resolved (yet not necessarily paid) whereas you have many others. Have you paid your taxes or found a bidder yet willing to pay whatever is being asked and take on future losses?
What is also interesting to add to the previous comments about the Gibson & Couhig claims is DCFC are yet to post their accounts (which have been extended yet again) to satisfy the EFL and Companies House. Could it be that no preferred bidder has been announced due to DCFC failing P&S yet again? What is holding up yet another disclosure of accounts?
Well @Raminpeace , the reason you have been treated so well on here is because you have approached us so reasonably without the usual diatribe & rhetoric of many of your DCFC fans. At least you admit DCFCs shortfalls & in principle I agree that our beef should also be jointly with the EFL.
The bit I can't get my head around is that if our claim was so inconsequential/irrelevant, why would Quantuma publicly claim that it was one of the two flys in the ointment that was holding back the progress? Yet I am now led to believe that they are saying the opposite! Maybe it's just me not seeing the elephant in the room.
Unfortunately @Raminpeace the civility of this discourse has not been matched by the comments directed at our club and our majority shareholder on Derby forums and Twitter.
You say about Morris’ cheating and deliberate avoidance of the points deduction “ IMO, more the EFLs problem than ours” I think that sums up the problem Derby fans have.
The problem with pointing at the EFL instead of pointing at Wayne Rooney's Derby County™ is that Wayne Rooney's Derby County™ have already taken the money that would have gone to us if Wayne Rooney's Derby County™ hadn't cheated.
@Wendoverman said:
I must admit it is quite upsetting when fellow members of the football family say: 'Sh*t club I hope they go bust...'
Is this the same football family that DCFC were quite happy to shite on until they ran out of options @Wendoverman, then expected to stand aside as they are so big that they cannot fall? Horlicks to the taxman as well.
@Wendoverman said:
I must admit it is quite upsetting when fellow members of the football family say: 'Sh*t club I hope they go bust...'
Is this the same football family that DCFC were quite happy to shite on until they ran out of options @Wendoverman, then expected to stand aside as they are so big that they cannot fall? Horlicks to the taxman as well.
A lot of the comments I saw on Twitter today basically said why should a big 'proper' club like Derby give any money to a tinpot non-entity of a club like Wycombe. I could actually feel my already diminished reservoir of sympathy packing its suitcase and going on holiday.
@drcongo said:
The problem with pointing at the EFL instead of pointing at Wayne Rooney's Derby County™ is that Wayne Rooney's Derby County™ have already taken the money that would have gone to us if Wayne Rooney's Derby County™ hadn't cheated.
I spent ages trying to word it diplomatically but basically this is it and more than the money it would have been our chance to see our club in the championship for normal match days across a season. We are a family club and some of our family wont be here for our next season in the championship and that I can’t forgive.
I meant that I have been disappointed to read that on other forums about US! Derby seem sensitive about being criticised but quite happy to punch down.
What a barren world it must be to consider the dignity of your team to be derived not from how it competes on and off the field and how it treats others but merely as a function of the size of its fanbase and the length of time it has been in a certain tier of the pyramid. To have gambled it all it an effort to be a bit more like Norwich and failed and then to have played the system to avoid dropping to the abyss of the third tier and now to just not care who or what you trample on as you desperately continue to tell yourself that you are a big club and they are small. I'm so glad that our last decade has been the very antithesis of Derby's.
As far as I can tell Rob Couhig is indeed in the UK at the moment, but only he, his team and the ususal DCFC/Admin suspects know if there has been any contact about our claim.
This is all a distraction from the bigger issues in the administration process, namely the debt to HMRC & the costs of the administrators, the former is not going away without a political decision & the former is bleeding money from the club and further burdening it with short term debt that needs repaying out of the sale proceeds... Currently the noise from HMRC & The Treasury is they will not take a haircut so where is the £29m coming from?
I don't think many football supporters would argue that the EFL has a degree of culpability in this whole mess and many would go further and suggest that the EFL is not fit for purpose. Unfortunately the EFL, as currently constituted, is a members club of the 72 clubs and they are the ones who need to vote for any meaningful change to the way the organisation is constituted, run and the rules that they all have to adhere to (the phrase turkeys not voting for Christmas springs to mind); so I wouldn't hold my breath on any significant changes, though the succession of monetary embarrassments amongst members may lead to some tightening of the "Sustainability & Profitability" rules and the associated disciplinary processes.
Derby have been fighting tooth and nail using tactics legitimate and not to frustrate the EFL's attempts to bring them to heel. Whatever the EFL's shortcomings in all of this, it seems quite rich that Derby are now pointing the finger at the EFL.
Comments
So less than £100,000! Hardly worth the bother?
Less than 6 figures. They’re ‘avin’ a larf. At least I hope they are !
Depends if it’s the principle of the matter and not looking for a financial penalty to hit Derby with.
He’s always scoffed at the idea out claim is holding up any take over maybe this is why. He just wants a line in the sand that shows derby recognise they cheated us out of our place in the championship
Less than 100k my arse
As they say in Brazil, if shit was worth anything, the poor would be born without arseholes
It's not the financial penalty that hits Derby that Wycombe care about, it's the recouping of money that should be ours.
I expect the "under 6 figures" info came from the Derby side as a hope, no way Rob would have leaked that info
Lol, has he been working with this guy? https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/giovanni-di-stefano/
Why the hell would anyone buy into this club when you have statements like this coming out.
Looks like they (as a club) will never learn.
Yes it might take a couple of years to suit themselves out but it will be worth it in the long run. The quick fix solution (that this article seems to suggest) is never good for long term planning.
Imagine how the current first team players feel having it announced in the national press that he wants to replace them all in the summer. Looking forward to this ending their hopes of survival.
I could be wholly wrong but the one thing that jumps out at me when RC talks is two fold: 1. doing the right thing and 2. Playing by the rules.
We have seen a number of things (not least Nick Freeman getting a contract extension when injuries) in regards to doing the right thing and he has said one of the fundamental attractions to English League Football was fair play and playing by the rules.
I made a comment about 4000 pages again that we didn’t know the value RC would settle for and I made a slightly tongue in cheek comment that it could be £1 for all we know.
My feeling, and it is only a feeling, is that RC wouldn’t see us being the reason for Derby going out of business as “doing the right thing” and he would settle for significantly less than was reported, if only Derbys administrators got on the phone to him.
I think them ignoring us Irked him somewhat and why he stuck to his guns and quietly kept his council on an acceptable figure until someone talked to him.
YCMIU.
"The Tony Adams"
Worth remembering this could be less than six figures by Wayne Rooneys Derby County accounting practice so if their attitude to their increasing debt is anything to go by I’m hopeful of an eight figure settlement . They can’t count very well
Quite likely that this is all BS. It's possible Gibson came down from a very hopeful £40m to £7m or £8m paid over a period of time which is still not to be sniffed at and they hope we'd settle for similar percentages but I'm not sure how they get to any of that before they actually talk.
I'd enjoy being a fly on the wall if they march in to the tax man with the same approach. Seems to be mostly a combo of - Day is night, black is white, don't you know who I am , think of the kids, and will you take a fiver and go away.
Once again any modicum of sympathy I had for Derby fans evaporated after reading their comments about this on Twitter. Peterborough might be stinking out the Championship but Derby fans' sense of entitlement reeks to high heaven.
Quantuma would beg to differ but, then again, they would, wouldn't they? Their stance is that the 2 claims had no basis which is why they didn't entertain them or enter into dialogue. That led to the 2 claims being up in the air and the prospective buyers being unwilling to commit until there was some clarity. The Mel stepped up and spoke with Gibson and they reached an agreement, the contents of which nobody knows. Has he agreed to pay Boro off? Has he added a caveat in which neither he nor DCFC admit "guilt". Have they merely agreed to take it to the High Court with Mel underwriting any award? I have no idea.
Wycombe? Is that still up in the air? I've seen rumours that Couhig has flown over for talks. Are they true? Has he spoken to Mel? I presume they will talk at some point. Probably a similar agreement to the Boro one, one would think. I still think that at least some of your gripe should be aimed at the EFL. It is they who took until well into this season to decide what to punish Derby with. Admittedly, Derby did get 2 extensions but the EFL also procrastinated in convening the first tribunal, which met late on. The verdict from the tribunal took ages. EFL then took every day of the month allowed to decide to appeal, more months passed before the appeal was heard, idem ditto with the verdict..... if we'd been docked points last season, which could have happened if the EFL hadn't dragged their feet, we couldn't have complained. That it didn't happen last season is, IMO, more the EFLs problem than ours. Thankfully, the whole sorry mess looks like being solved, finally. Hopefully, everybody can live with the outcome.
15 games to go. 30 points from them should guarantee at least a playoff place.
Finally, I'd like to thank you all for being reasonable in our exchanges. I've also been conversing on a Boro forum and been well "treated" there as well.
"Thankfully, the whole sorry mess looks like being solved, finally."
Let's hope so for your sake @Raminpeace From this side it just looks like one issue (that both one bidder and many of your fans maintain wasn't an issue) has been resolved (yet not necessarily paid) whereas you have many others. Have you paid your taxes or found a bidder yet willing to pay whatever is being asked and take on future losses?
What is also interesting to add to the previous comments about the Gibson & Couhig claims is DCFC are yet to post their accounts (which have been extended yet again) to satisfy the EFL and Companies House. Could it be that no preferred bidder has been announced due to DCFC failing P&S yet again? What is holding up yet another disclosure of accounts?
Well @Raminpeace , the reason you have been treated so well on here is because you have approached us so reasonably without the usual diatribe & rhetoric of many of your DCFC fans. At least you admit DCFCs shortfalls & in principle I agree that our beef should also be jointly with the EFL.
The bit I can't get my head around is that if our claim was so inconsequential/irrelevant, why would Quantuma publicly claim that it was one of the two flys in the ointment that was holding back the progress? Yet I am now led to believe that they are saying the opposite! Maybe it's just me not seeing the elephant in the room.
Unfortunately @Raminpeace the civility of this discourse has not been matched by the comments directed at our club and our majority shareholder on Derby forums and Twitter.
You say about Morris’ cheating and deliberate avoidance of the points deduction “ IMO, more the EFLs problem than ours” I think that sums up the problem Derby fans have.
The problem with pointing at the EFL instead of pointing at Wayne Rooney's Derby County™ is that Wayne Rooney's Derby County™ have already taken the money that would have gone to us if Wayne Rooney's Derby County™ hadn't cheated.
I must admit it is quite upsetting when fellow members of the football family say: 'Sh*t club I hope they go bust...'
Is this the same football family that DCFC were quite happy to shite on until they ran out of options @Wendoverman, then expected to stand aside as they are so big that they cannot fall? Horlicks to the taxman as well.
A lot of the comments I saw on Twitter today basically said why should a big 'proper' club like Derby give any money to a tinpot non-entity of a club like Wycombe. I could actually feel my already diminished reservoir of sympathy packing its suitcase and going on holiday.
I spent ages trying to word it diplomatically but basically this is it and more than the money it would have been our chance to see our club in the championship for normal match days across a season. We are a family club and some of our family wont be here for our next season in the championship and that I can’t forgive.
I meant that I have been disappointed to read that on other forums about US! Derby seem sensitive about being criticised but quite happy to punch down.
What a barren world it must be to consider the dignity of your team to be derived not from how it competes on and off the field and how it treats others but merely as a function of the size of its fanbase and the length of time it has been in a certain tier of the pyramid. To have gambled it all it an effort to be a bit more like Norwich and failed and then to have played the system to avoid dropping to the abyss of the third tier and now to just not care who or what you trample on as you desperately continue to tell yourself that you are a big club and they are small. I'm so glad that our last decade has been the very antithesis of Derby's.
As far as I can tell Rob Couhig is indeed in the UK at the moment, but only he, his team and the ususal DCFC/Admin suspects know if there has been any contact about our claim.
This is all a distraction from the bigger issues in the administration process, namely the debt to HMRC & the costs of the administrators, the former is not going away without a political decision & the former is bleeding money from the club and further burdening it with short term debt that needs repaying out of the sale proceeds... Currently the noise from HMRC & The Treasury is they will not take a haircut so where is the £29m coming from?
I don't think many football supporters would argue that the EFL has a degree of culpability in this whole mess and many would go further and suggest that the EFL is not fit for purpose. Unfortunately the EFL, as currently constituted, is a members club of the 72 clubs and they are the ones who need to vote for any meaningful change to the way the organisation is constituted, run and the rules that they all have to adhere to (the phrase turkeys not voting for Christmas springs to mind); so I wouldn't hold my breath on any significant changes, though the succession of monetary embarrassments amongst members may lead to some tightening of the "Sustainability & Profitability" rules and the associated disciplinary processes.
Derby have been fighting tooth and nail using tactics legitimate and not to frustrate the EFL's attempts to bring them to heel. Whatever the EFL's shortcomings in all of this, it seems quite rich that Derby are now pointing the finger at the EFL.
The football family. A desperate concept pedalled by supporters at their lowest ebb.
See also ‘you only sing when you’re winning’. So what? We’re winning.