Plenty of teams have stayed up with the points total we achieved. This 'we didn't deserve to stay up' nonsense has no basis. If we'd only got 25 points then sure, but that's not the case.
We got the points to stay up, we got shafted by the owner of Derby. Let's at least have a go at putting things right or getting some compensation out of the league.
Agree we had the players to survive in the Championship but sadly two of the main ones were not available for the first half of the season but that's football innit? For me, the leads we let slip against Lu'on and Swansea did for us late on whatever Derby were up to. Having said that it would be remiss of an owner not to explore avenues for compo but perhaps in a less public manner.
It's just about the money. If we were to receive a substantial payout somehow, it would put us at a financial and thus competitive advantage irrespective of the moral or ethical position some may feel we had taken. RC is quite correct in his perspective of his position as Chairman of an expanding multimillion pound business (which is where Wycombe are now).
@TheAndyGrahamFanClub said:
I do read it that Derby deliberately delayed the inevitable and if that was the case then they make a mockery of the rules.
Mel Morris' interview does come across as 'we did everything to delay thing (even though we knew we were guilty) to avoid relegation'
With this being the case I don't blame Rob considering his legal options.
It stinks. Positions reversed I think we all know what the outcome would have been
@Wendoverman said: @ReturnToSenda touche but in my defence, though I do respond, I think you'll find in the main Potato snack related issues are not very often raised by my good self. ?
Derby is very much a case of a rich man getting bored and deciding he cant be arsed to put any more money in, Mel Morris has the money to keep Derby afloat (he is currently in the process of buying a number of companies for his non football business); but he has chosen to put no more in.
Most of Derby's travails can be laid at the door of decisions made by Morris, including increasing the player wage budget by a factor of 4 over the years of the accounts that need restatement and selling Pride Park to a company he owns (then using it as security for a loan from Michael Dell).
In football terms administration DOES NOT clear your debts as you have to pay all football related debts in full (this now includes HMRC who are owed £26m) and 25% of non football debts, so whoever eventually buys the club picks up a stonking great liability and no assets as the players are mostly worth buttons and the club don't own the stadium.
Every Championship Club over the last 6 seasons has to a greater or lesser extent been cheated by Derby. Unfortunately many are also in a parlous state and more by luck than judgement have managed to just avoid finding themselves in the same place for example Reading who have for years been spending well in excess of their income on player wages but have an owner who subs them out each year. Until the FFP rules are tightened up, along with getting rid of parachute payments and a fairer distribution of TV income this financial lunacy will continue.
@mooneyman said:
Realistically you can't get rid of parachute payments now. To do so would put all relegated Premier clubs immediately into Administration.
@mooneyman said:
Realistically you can't get rid of parachute payments now. To do so would put all relegated Premier clubs immediately into Administration.
I'm fine with that.
Until we get promoted to the "promised land"! ⚽️⚽️
At this point I am past arguing we should have stayed up.
At this point we should be fighting to make sure this doesn’t happen again to another club.
Any legal action (if appropriate) should be taken against the football league - not for compensation- but to ensure the rules the teams have to abide by moving forward are A: Fair and B: Consistent and that those running it are fit and proper.
@ReturnToSenda long overdue, they have spent a decade or more overspending and racking up debt
@mooneyman of course it needs to be phased over a few seasons at the same time as phasing in a fairer distributions of TV monies and Premier League solidarity payments
I would also like to see some form of EFL bonus payment to teams that end each season with a genuine profit on their footballing activities, perhaps on a sliding scale related to the number of years they have broken even or made a profit as a way of encouraging sustainability
Just seen that Kieran Maguire said on a Reading pod towards the end of last season that you could end up with 8/9 Champ clubs having points deducted. That division is a basket case.
It would be annoying if several stayed up even with the deduction! One wonders if more will take the risk of going into admin early if Derby are already as good as down with a huge deduction.
@ReturnToSenda said:
Reading also facing a 9-point deduction for financial breaches now
They might as well now spend big money in the January window and go all out for promotion. Once in the Premier the EFL can't touch them à la Bournemouth.
@mooneyman said:
Realistically you can't get rid of parachute payments now. To do so would put all relegated Premier clubs immediately into Administration.
What's the problem?
Quite simply, you offer players wages you can afford to play, or you're just lying
@mooneyman said:
Realistically you can't get rid of parachute payments now. To do so would put all relegated Premier clubs immediately into Administration.
What's the problem?
Quite simply, you offer players wages you can afford to play, or you're just lying
Premiership clubs get well over £100m television money per year, Championship clubs get around £2m. How can you run a business with such a differential in income when you get relegated?
It's far from ideal though, in effect you are subsidising people to make long term purchases they can't afford long term. The fire sales after relegation mean the successful investments / good players leave cheaply and those not performing and not wanted hang around for years or get pay offs. There has to be some kind of incentive to promoted clubs to hoard a bit of the cash for the future rather than piss it away on players who will want out in a few months. Owners need to take a longer term view or be held accountable. Can't just run away having massively increased the wage bill.
Derby County have entered administration and been deducted 12 points by the English Football League.
The Championship club announced their intention to call in administrators on Friday, with owner Mel Morris saying the coronavirus pandemic had cost them about £20m in lost revenue.
Morris has spent the past two days talking to players and staff, whose jobs are now uncertain.
Wayne Rooney's Rams drop to the foot of the table, on minus two points.
@mooneyman said:
Realistically you can't get rid of parachute payments now. To do so would put all relegated Premier clubs immediately into Administration.
What's the problem?
Quite simply, you offer players wages you can afford to play, or you're just lying
They can afford to pay. Until they get relegated. The drop is so ludicrous, that even with built in percentage decreases they stil can't deal with it.
And no premier level player is going to sign on 40k prem money reduced to say 10k in the champs.
I actually think they are good enough to overcome the -12 so far this season. The other 9 or so would need to be tacked on to relegate them. However, in Derby's spirit of delaying things to benefit them, the EFL should hold off on that one to see how the season goes, and then apply it right at the end if it is needed.
Comments
Plenty of teams have stayed up with the points total we achieved. This 'we didn't deserve to stay up' nonsense has no basis. If we'd only got 25 points then sure, but that's not the case.
We got the points to stay up, we got shafted by the owner of Derby. Let's at least have a go at putting things right or getting some compensation out of the league.
Agree we had the players to survive in the Championship but sadly two of the main ones were not available for the first half of the season but that's football innit? For me, the leads we let slip against Lu'on and Swansea did for us late on whatever Derby were up to. Having said that it would be remiss of an owner not to explore avenues for compo but perhaps in a less public manner.
It's just about the money. If we were to receive a substantial payout somehow, it would put us at a financial and thus competitive advantage irrespective of the moral or ethical position some may feel we had taken. RC is quite correct in his perspective of his position as Chairman of an expanding multimillion pound business (which is where Wycombe are now).
Mel Morris' interview does come across as 'we did everything to delay thing (even though we knew we were guilty) to avoid relegation'
With this being the case I don't blame Rob considering his legal options.
It stinks. Positions reversed I think we all know what the outcome would have been
To busy eating them?
with you on this @DevC
Derby is very much a case of a rich man getting bored and deciding he cant be arsed to put any more money in, Mel Morris has the money to keep Derby afloat (he is currently in the process of buying a number of companies for his non football business); but he has chosen to put no more in.
Most of Derby's travails can be laid at the door of decisions made by Morris, including increasing the player wage budget by a factor of 4 over the years of the accounts that need restatement and selling Pride Park to a company he owns (then using it as security for a loan from Michael Dell).
In football terms administration DOES NOT clear your debts as you have to pay all football related debts in full (this now includes HMRC who are owed £26m) and 25% of non football debts, so whoever eventually buys the club picks up a stonking great liability and no assets as the players are mostly worth buttons and the club don't own the stadium.
Every Championship Club over the last 6 seasons has to a greater or lesser extent been cheated by Derby. Unfortunately many are also in a parlous state and more by luck than judgement have managed to just avoid finding themselves in the same place for example Reading who have for years been spending well in excess of their income on player wages but have an owner who subs them out each year. Until the FFP rules are tightened up, along with getting rid of parachute payments and a fairer distribution of TV income this financial lunacy will continue.
Realistically you can't get rid of parachute payments now. To do so would put all relegated Premier clubs immediately into Administration.
You'd have to phase them out gradually I think.
I'm fine with that.
Until we get promoted to the "promised land"! ⚽️⚽️
At this point I am past arguing we should have stayed up.
At this point we should be fighting to make sure this doesn’t happen again to another club.
Any legal action (if appropriate) should be taken against the football league - not for compensation- but to ensure the rules the teams have to abide by moving forward are A: Fair and B: Consistent and that those running it are fit and proper.
Reading also facing a 9-point deduction for financial breaches now
That could really hurt their 26/27 season.
@ReturnToSenda long overdue, they have spent a decade or more overspending and racking up debt
@mooneyman of course it needs to be phased over a few seasons at the same time as phasing in a fairer distributions of TV monies and Premier League solidarity payments
I would also like to see some form of EFL bonus payment to teams that end each season with a genuine profit on their footballing activities, perhaps on a sliding scale related to the number of years they have broken even or made a profit as a way of encouraging sustainability
It's early here, but that's POTD already wrapped up.
Just seen that Kieran Maguire said on a Reading pod towards the end of last season that you could end up with 8/9 Champ clubs having points deducted. That division is a basket case.
Cheating in the Championship is so low risk high reward i'd be surprised if it wasn't more.
It would be annoying if several stayed up even with the deduction! One wonders if more will take the risk of going into admin early if Derby are already as good as down with a huge deduction.
They might as well now spend big money in the January window and go all out for promotion. Once in the Premier the EFL can't touch them à la Bournemouth.
What's the problem?
Quite simply, you offer players wages you can afford to play, or you're just lying
Premiership clubs get well over £100m television money per year, Championship clubs get around £2m. How can you run a business with such a differential in income when you get relegated?
Premier League.
It's far from ideal though, in effect you are subsidising people to make long term purchases they can't afford long term. The fire sales after relegation mean the successful investments / good players leave cheaply and those not performing and not wanted hang around for years or get pay offs. There has to be some kind of incentive to promoted clubs to hoard a bit of the cash for the future rather than piss it away on players who will want out in a few months. Owners need to take a longer term view or be held accountable. Can't just run away having massively increased the wage bill.
BBC now reporting it's a done
Derby County have entered administration and been deducted 12 points by the English Football League.
The Championship club announced their intention to call in administrators on Friday, with owner Mel Morris saying the coronavirus pandemic had cost them about £20m in lost revenue.
Morris has spent the past two days talking to players and staff, whose jobs are now uncertain.
Wayne Rooney's Rams drop to the foot of the table, on minus two points.
Good. Hopefully they're able to find a decent owner quickly.
They can afford to pay. Until they get relegated. The drop is so ludicrous, that even with built in percentage decreases they stil can't deal with it.
And no premier level player is going to sign on 40k prem money reduced to say 10k in the champs.
I actually think they are good enough to overcome the -12 so far this season. The other 9 or so would need to be tacked on to relegate them. However, in Derby's spirit of delaying things to benefit them, the EFL should hold off on that one to see how the season goes, and then apply it right at the end if it is needed.
I think they should apply the other nine, three points at a time, the first three times they get into positive figures.
Derby and Nottm. Forest bottom and second bottom of the Championship. Dear old Cloughie would turn in his grave.