Isn't it called 'plea bargaining' in the USA ?
The whole thing stinks, but any organisation that employs Peter Risdale, can't really expect the general public to have any respect or trust in it.
Rob needs to raise the threat of legal action if the deduction relates to previous accounts.
At worse it will just be a shot across the boughs.
We won't be reinstated to Championship, but there could be a financial compensation which might get us Haaland ?
And yet some are convinced it's all very unfair...
Absolutely no point in accepting this unless the over restrictive embargo is released allowing Derby to trade. If the embargo stays then we are 100% relegated. It’s a double punishment for very little wrongdoing. ?♀️hunt
There is no place for negotiation when a punishment is being put in place... I can't get my head around this, it beggars belief!!!
I'm not sure it will get us anywhere but I kind of also hope Rob and the lawyers brigade will get their teeth into this and cause a shit storm.
@arnos_grove said:
And yet some are convinced it's all very unfair...
Absolutely no point in accepting this unless the over restrictive embargo is released allowing Derby to trade. If the embargo stays then we are 100% relegated. It’s a double punishment for very little wrongdoing. ?♀️hunt
As a Nottinghamian looking at the foot of the Championship, I welcome this long overdue punishment. As a Wycombe fan, I hope we get a generous bung and/or 12 points added to our total for this season.
I'm not sure I really understand the desire for Rob Couhig to "go after" Derby. Any number of clubs will surely have been disadvantaged by Derby's poor practice over many years. Why are we special in that respect and what's the chance of us getting special treatment?
Also, I note that people are complaining about the idea of settling on a punishment. But that's hardly a revolutionary concept. UK regulators like the FCA negotiate settlement penalties to save the time, money and agony of taking disputes further. This is similar, surely, in that many, including Wycombe fans, have been complaining about the time taken to get through the prolonged cycle of disciplinary case, appeal, penalty, appeal, etc., etc. Isn't the negotiation the means to shorten that timescale?
@our_frank said:
I'm not sure I really understand the desire for Rob Couhig to "go after" Derby. Any number of clubs will surely have been disadvantaged by Derby's poor practice over many years. Why are we special in that respect and what's the chance of us getting special treatment?
Off the top of my head, the main bone of contention for Wycombe in particular I would suspect is being relegated by one point while they tried to decide how to punish Derby.
I agree that it is water under the bridge now but I would be surprised if the club do not think they have a right to request some sort of compo...successful or not.
yeah, but they are having to revise their accounts for the last five years. In 2 of those years they finished in the play-off places and in literally every game they played, they were at an unfair advantage due to the misrepresentation of their financial health. So other clubs could have specific grievances like ours, but every team competing in that division with them over those 5 years lost out as a result.
I just don't see where Wycombe pulling at this thread gets you.
Derby should have received a points deduction last season and we were denied another season in the championship by their and the EFLs actions.
I’m hope Rob can nail them both on this.
@ReturnToSenda said:
Then other clubs are just as entitled to kick off
Hmmm...that's what I thought. Lots of clubs have an issue so why are we bothering seemed a strange logic. I mean I don't expect anything from it and hope it does not distract us from a glorious League One season...but the financial implications of them unfairly pipping us to an historic survival and why it would bother Rob and Co seem obvious to me.
I fully understand why this issue bothers many WWFC fans but ....
Rob previously stated that he respected the process and I assume he's talking from a legal perspective here. Thus, endless there's cause to suggest the process has been flawed - it certainly hasn't been very transparent nor does it seem fair to a fan of WWFC - I don't see Rob able to take any further action even 8f he wanted to
I still have to check myself when I read the rule they broke was exceeding the permitted loss of £39 million over 3 seasons.
As the EFL is in charge of the governance of football outside of the Premiership just having this as a rule seems mental.
It certainly does nothing to promote sustainability or level playing fields. The corresponding level of FFP in the Premier League if it exists (please, not Premiership - leave that for the Scots and the rugby) must make it an even more uneven uneven surface.
actually, I see that Derby have been asked to resubmit 3 years' worth of accounts, for the financial years ending June '16, '17 and '18 (rather than the 5 years I suggested). From my perspective, this is all the more reason to think it would be odd to go after them for not being deducted points in 2021. I would take the point that they would have retained any advantage they'd gained for mistatements in those previous years, but it feels like the damage is even less specific to Wanderers.
I’m in the ‘this has nothing to do with just one club being disadvantaged’ camp. We were victims of the EFLs lack of competence I’m managing the process last season so if we felt we had to go for compensation it should be addressed to the EFL not Derby. And I personally think we should maintain a dignified silence.
The only way this (i.e. the state of the game and how it's run) might improve is if the people affected speak up - and continue to speak up. Even if we're not able to change anything in terms of our place in the pyramid, we shouldn't just keep it zipped - because this will keep on happening to clubs like us who play by the rules.
It is like any governance structure if those being governed have contempt for the rules and those applying the rules then offences will continue. The EFL had a chance of throwing a big stick at Wayne Rooney's Derby™️ and there would be few outside Derby that would argue against it. I am pretty sure that if Wayne Rooney's Derby™️ did not have allies within the EFL they would be in league 1 at the moment and precedents have shown that to be the case. The list of clubs who have had to take their medicine have been repeated over and over in this thread. I have no dislike for Wayne Rooney's Derby™️ particularly but I think we all turned our noses up a bit when he joined them and the shirt number was linked the sponsor, a gambling number. And when this turns out to be the least immoral thing they have done recently I guess the bar is set pretty low. I mean come on, selling a ground for twice it's value and getting away with it?
From what I remember Middlesborough were considering suing Derby over this back in 2019 after the Rams beat Boro to a play-off place despite breaking the rules. Plenty of other clubs and fans seem to dislike them for getting away with the benefits of cheating (though how many clubs at Championship level aren't financial basket cases?). Finally biting them on the backside but I imagine we'd be at the back of any queue for recompense if it came to it, and while a couple of million in the bank would be nice I hope we retain our dignity.
I was assuming all complaints would be directed at the EFL rather than the already potless sheep...fans have no control over the way their club is run but those supposed to be responsible should be made fully aware of any club's unhappiness. In a polite and dignified way of course. (Pete, turn that tractor full of manure round right now...!)
@Wendoverman said:
I was assuming all complaints would be directed at the EFL rather than the already potless sheep...fans have no control over the way their club is run but those supposed to be responsible should be made fully aware of any club's unhappiness. In a polite and dignified way of course. (Pete, turn that tractor full of manure round right now...!)
There's normally a decent argument for that if the owners have moved on and it's a new regime, it's clouded by the fact that they would like to move on but keep ballsing up the sale of the club. Either way a precedent is difficult as clubs would then tend to spend too much, shift debt and be sold to mates or family.
@mooneyman said:
Surely the biggest villain of FFP was Bournemouth who fiddled their way to the Premier League and ended up with a puny fine of less than £5m.
Stop detracting from the plucky minnow fairy tale narrative.
Comments
Isn't it called 'plea bargaining' in the USA ?
The whole thing stinks, but any organisation that employs Peter Risdale, can't really expect the general public to have any respect or trust in it.
Derby fans I know are convinced that’s not the end of it.
Absolute disgrace. Hope Rob takes them to the cleaners now. Bloody cheats!!!!!!
Can we negotiate to have our relegation suspended another year, please?
Rob needs to raise the threat of legal action if the deduction relates to previous accounts.
At worse it will just be a shot across the boughs.
We won't be reinstated to Championship, but there could be a financial compensation which might get us Haaland ?
And yet some are convinced it's all very unfair...
There is no place for negotiation when a punishment is being put in place... I can't get my head around this, it beggars belief!!!
I'm not sure it will get us anywhere but I kind of also hope Rob and the lawyers brigade will get their teeth into this and cause a shit storm.
You couldn't make it up could you?
As a Nottinghamian looking at the foot of the Championship, I welcome this long overdue punishment. As a Wycombe fan, I hope we get a generous bung and/or 12 points added to our total for this season.
Genuine LOL
I'm not sure I really understand the desire for Rob Couhig to "go after" Derby. Any number of clubs will surely have been disadvantaged by Derby's poor practice over many years. Why are we special in that respect and what's the chance of us getting special treatment?
Also, I note that people are complaining about the idea of settling on a punishment. But that's hardly a revolutionary concept. UK regulators like the FCA negotiate settlement penalties to save the time, money and agony of taking disputes further. This is similar, surely, in that many, including Wycombe fans, have been complaining about the time taken to get through the prolonged cycle of disciplinary case, appeal, penalty, appeal, etc., etc. Isn't the negotiation the means to shorten that timescale?
Off the top of my head, the main bone of contention for Wycombe in particular I would suspect is being relegated by one point while they tried to decide how to punish Derby.
I agree that it is water under the bridge now but I would be surprised if the club do not think they have a right to request some sort of compo...successful or not.
yeah, but they are having to revise their accounts for the last five years. In 2 of those years they finished in the play-off places and in literally every game they played, they were at an unfair advantage due to the misrepresentation of their financial health. So other clubs could have specific grievances like ours, but every team competing in that division with them over those 5 years lost out as a result.
I just don't see where Wycombe pulling at this thread gets you.
Then other clubs are just as entitled to kick off
Derby should have received a points deduction last season and we were denied another season in the championship by their and the EFLs actions.
I’m hope Rob can nail them both on this.
Hmmm...that's what I thought. Lots of clubs have an issue so why are we bothering seemed a strange logic. I mean I don't expect anything from it and hope it does not distract us from a glorious League One season...but the financial implications of them unfairly pipping us to an historic survival and why it would bother Rob and Co seem obvious to me.
I fully understand why this issue bothers many WWFC fans but ....
Rob previously stated that he respected the process and I assume he's talking from a legal perspective here. Thus, endless there's cause to suggest the process has been flawed - it certainly hasn't been very transparent nor does it seem fair to a fan of WWFC - I don't see Rob able to take any further action even 8f he wanted to
I still have to check myself when I read the rule they broke was exceeding the permitted loss of £39 million over 3 seasons.
As the EFL is in charge of the governance of football outside of the Premiership just having this as a rule seems mental.
It certainly does nothing to promote sustainability or level playing fields. The corresponding level of FFP in the Premier League if it exists (please, not Premiership - leave that for the Scots and the rugby) must make it an even more uneven uneven surface.
Uneven playing field.
Yes, imagine having a loss of say 38m over 3 years and considering that some sort of success!
actually, I see that Derby have been asked to resubmit 3 years' worth of accounts, for the financial years ending June '16, '17 and '18 (rather than the 5 years I suggested). From my perspective, this is all the more reason to think it would be odd to go after them for not being deducted points in 2021. I would take the point that they would have retained any advantage they'd gained for mistatements in those previous years, but it feels like the damage is even less specific to Wanderers.
I’m in the ‘this has nothing to do with just one club being disadvantaged’ camp. We were victims of the EFLs lack of competence I’m managing the process last season so if we felt we had to go for compensation it should be addressed to the EFL not Derby. And I personally think we should maintain a dignified silence.
The only way this (i.e. the state of the game and how it's run) might improve is if the people affected speak up - and continue to speak up. Even if we're not able to change anything in terms of our place in the pyramid, we shouldn't just keep it zipped - because this will keep on happening to clubs like us who play by the rules.
It is like any governance structure if those being governed have contempt for the rules and those applying the rules then offences will continue. The EFL had a chance of throwing a big stick at Wayne Rooney's Derby™️ and there would be few outside Derby that would argue against it. I am pretty sure that if Wayne Rooney's Derby™️ did not have allies within the EFL they would be in league 1 at the moment and precedents have shown that to be the case. The list of clubs who have had to take their medicine have been repeated over and over in this thread. I have no dislike for Wayne Rooney's Derby™️ particularly but I think we all turned our noses up a bit when he joined them and the shirt number was linked the sponsor, a gambling number. And when this turns out to be the least immoral thing they have done recently I guess the bar is set pretty low. I mean come on, selling a ground for twice it's value and getting away with it?
From what I remember Middlesborough were considering suing Derby over this back in 2019 after the Rams beat Boro to a play-off place despite breaking the rules. Plenty of other clubs and fans seem to dislike them for getting away with the benefits of cheating (though how many clubs at Championship level aren't financial basket cases?). Finally biting them on the backside but I imagine we'd be at the back of any queue for recompense if it came to it, and while a couple of million in the bank would be nice I hope we retain our dignity.
I was assuming all complaints would be directed at the EFL rather than the already potless sheep...fans have no control over the way their club is run but those supposed to be responsible should be made fully aware of any club's unhappiness. In a polite and dignified way of course. (Pete, turn that tractor full of manure round right now...!)
There's normally a decent argument for that if the owners have moved on and it's a new regime, it's clouded by the fact that they would like to move on but keep ballsing up the sale of the club. Either way a precedent is difficult as clubs would then tend to spend too much, shift debt and be sold to mates or family.
Surely the biggest villain of FFP was Bournemouth who fiddled their way to the Premier League and ended up with a puny fine of less than £5m.
Stop detracting from the plucky minnow fairy tale narrative.