@Shev said:
Not a fan of RC saying that to the BBC, though. It feels as though this could get pushed into the vitriolic pretty quickly. I think it would be better to just act if we need to act.
I agree but now he’s done it and the genie is out of the bottle. I haven’t been on the Derby fans forum yet but I fully expect that now they are going after us as the new enemy, that’s unfortunately how blinkered home fans get in these situations . However we’ll live with that and he’s absolutely correct when he points out the people running Derby County cheated for years and that’s where the fault lies.
Having just read that the Wycombe chairman is going to sue Derby for 10-15 million quod I pretty much give up. An american lawyer in charge of a club who no one cares about suing us for apparent accountancy discrepancies years ago when they were two leagues below us. Seems from the quotes to be relishing trying to put us out of business. Modern football. Well done Wycombe. Hope you are proud of yourselves.
This is one of the gems on their forum. I’m not sure any comments from Rob can be seen as ‘trying to put Derby out of business’, more cranking up the heat a notch. From a business perspective, it’s clear we stand to gain from being in The Championship. If we happen to benefit from
Derby’s situation, then it is right for Rob to pile on a little more pressure and see what happens. If Derby do end up further down the pyramid and in administration or worse, their fans shouldn’t be blaming Rob but instead looking a little closer to home.
I am glad Couhig has put his voice out there. Someone needed to try to move this mess forward and get it properly punished rather than just pushed down the road.
Rather than putting Derby out of business the correct punishment could save them and others from practices that could put them out of business.
We can do the English thing and keep quiet and then roll our eyes in a couple of years when something happens. Or we say ‘DERBY CHEATED. AGAIN AND AGAIN AND THEH ARE NOT ALONE. SORT THIS SHAMBLES OUT’. This is not wycombe v derby this is a cheating club getting away with it.
Absolutely the wrong thing to do at the moment to the wrong target and will ultimately see us gain more enemies. We didn’t get relegated because of Derby’s financial mismanagement, we got relegated because we didn’t get enough points.
There is an argument for suing the EFL for a prolonged process that meant that for 6-8 weeks we we could not apparently guarantee what league we’d be playing in.
I think it would have made more sense to sue Stoke (for example) if their financial compliance is as bad as rumoured - but that is still wrong.
Rob has given their forum something to rail against and my natural tendencies would be to keep quiet and hope for the best but maybe it needs someone to get up, point and shout “this ain’t right”.
I don’t want Derbys money but I don’t want cheating in our game
I think it will now result in the EFL making a final decision NOT to deduct points from Derby for any financial irregularities (or at most a suspended punishment). The final league table would therefore stand as it was and consequently result in us having no grounds for any financial claims. Rob could therefore have inadvertantly managed to save Derby from relegation.
I think Couhig's comments show we are not 'little old Wycombe ' anymore and will roll over . We will stand our ground. However I am not a fan of doing our actions in the press. Couhig is a lawyer so I assume he knows what he is doing.
Rob is a lawyer, however he is a US lawyer. In that, litigious, society they do things different. Our legal system does not favour such a pugnacious approach, a quiet ruthless steely analysis tends to carry the day.
That said, it’s Rob’s ball so he sets the rules and he has chosen to play to his natural advocacy strengths, as he sees it.
I think if I were Derby County responding to Rob Couhig's inane statement I would merely point out that if he was so concerned about the loss of £10m or so from relegation, he could have opened his chequebook in January, bought a player and turned one draw into a win that would have saved Wycombe and relegated Derby.
I applaud Bobby C, people will always say its sour grapes, when one team looks to benefit at another expense.
But Derby have continually cheated, whilst we havent.
I believe the EFL and a lot of other clubs finally want Derby to face Justice.
We may run out of time this season, hence why Bobby C is threatening seeking compensation from the Rams.
Being seen an a small club that could just be ignored can't be the "right" thing to do when dealing with such obviously corrupt and incompetent parties like the FA/EFL/Derby.
Clearly RC has looked over the case and thinks we've got a strong one that shouldn't be allowed to be overlooked
@aloysius said:
I think if I were Derby County responding to Rob Couhig's inane statement I would merely point out that if he was so concerned about the loss of £10m or so from relegation, he could have opened his chequebook in January, bought a player and turned one draw into a win that would have saved Wycombe and relegated Derby.
You do realise we lost about 10 net points last season from poor refereeing decisions, including the home game against Derby itself which was a complete scandal.
Rob allowed GA to build a team that was good enough to stay up (and should have stayed up imo) so you can't criticise him for that. He can't be held accountable for one or two points in the grand scheme of a season which involved numerous instances of bad luck
Good line from him in the meeting was along the lines that if a £100k fine is appropriate for that kind of creative accounting and deliberate cheating for years then let's play 12 players v 11 in every game next season and just pay the fine at the end.
He feels very strongly that Derby have deliberately broken the rules and the EFL seem to agree.
IF the appeal is won and a points deduction is handed down now we'd stay up. You can be sure he's going to take an interest in that.
If, as he also thinks is likely, this whole business stretches into the new season and therefore it's too late to apply the deduction this year, then maybe we'd be entitled to claim but I'm not sure Derby could be held responsible for the process dragging on if appeals are allowed, so difficult to know if we could sue anyone.
As for the amount - it would relate to lost earnings so doesn't seem unreasonable but the truth is your expenses go up too.
@WanderingDays we'll have to agree to differ on that. Every club will have seen refereeing decisions go both for and against them. The reason they cost us so many points is because we didn't score enough goals to make them not matter.
The reason we didn't score enough goals? A lot of that comes down to the playing budget, which is set by Rob Couhig. Gareth nearly pulled off the impossible, a remarkable achievement, even more so when considering he had the Herculean task of assembling a squad to compete with the big boys despite a transfer budget probably around £100k. Who knows where we'd be now if that had even been raised to £500k. My guess is, sitting pretty in the Championship, banking the £10m or so Rob now wants to sue Derby for.
@aloysius said:
I think if I were Derby County responding to Rob Couhig's inane statement I would merely point out that if he was so concerned about the loss of £10m or so from relegation, he could have opened his chequebook in January, bought a player and turned one draw into a win that would have saved Wycombe and relegated Derby.
All so easy isn't it. Should he have done that at all costs, maybe given a Will Grigg type £4m and £40k a week even if the manager didn't find anyone he rates. Throwing money at it that might not save you and you might not be able to afford is more Derby's style.
@aloysius said:
I think if I were Derby County responding to Rob Couhig's inane statement I would merely point out that if he was so concerned about the loss of £10m or so from relegation, he could have opened his chequebook in January, bought a player and turned one draw into a win that would have saved Wycombe and relegated Derby.
Maybe he could have bought a dozen top players and hoped they turned a few draws into wins, breaking FFP rules in the process, and putting the future of the entire club at risk, but safe in the knowledge any punishment would be inconsequential compared to the extra cash we'd get. But he didn't. Because cheating is wrong.
I agree he should be doing what is best for us, and yes he should be challenging them, but he could be doing all this in private, not shouting it all out to the press
@arnos_grove said:
Yeah, making a ‘break the bank’ signing always works doesn’t it.
We had £10m in the bank. Buying one player wouldn't have broken it. I think you've still got the 'Little Wycombe' mentality going that Rob doesn't like so much. Last year was an exceptional season for us in so many ways. Not least of which was the ability to spend a little money on the squad with no risk of repercussions.
Cheats and criminals should never be allowed to prosper. Good on you Rob.
The key issue for me is this situation could drag on and suddenly become our major focus, as well as costing a lot of money in solicitors fees.
I feel sad that club has been turned against club, it's not a nice situation
I also feel sorry for Derby's fans. They support and love their club just like we do. They must wish it hadn't been run so spectacularly badly over a number of years
We had £10m in the bank. Buying one player wouldn't have broken it. I think you've still got the 'Little Wycombe' mentality going that Rob doesn't like so much. Last year was an exceptional season for us in so many ways. Not least of which was the ability to spend a little money on the squad with no risk of repercussions.
And you know for a fact we had £10million in the bank, do you? Where does that figure come from? I imagine our bank balance has been healthier in the last year than for as long as anyone can remember but can't imagine it has anything close to that hanging around waiting to be spent. The talk from everyone from Ainsworth to the Couhigs has always been that the money we got from being in the Championship would secure the club's long-term future. The EFL is awash with clubs who splashed the cash and it didn't work and they're now feeling the effects.
Birmingham were deducted 9 points, Sheff Weds 6 points for FFP in last two seasons so if Derby have done the same and merit a points deduction then so be it.
The rules clearly need reviewing to provide more clarity. Each level of offence should just have a standard points deduction come with it, that is clear for all fans, owners, journalists etc to understand.
Much like the administration rules, you go into admin = 12 points. Everyone knows where they stand.
Personally, I think we should have been pushing for a decision by the end of June so we could plan properly. Focusing on the process and asking for that to be expedited. I feel any statements should have focused on our inability to plan properly for next season. I've never been a fan of "lost income" because there are so many variables at hand. Not least the fact we finished in the relegation zone.
If the EFL appeal and nothing happens, I suspect Rob will not sue and will retract his statements for one reason or the other.
Derby have cheated, others have cheated but do we want this label? I'm ok with the PPG situation, the rules were followed and we got our chance to win promotion through the play-offs. If the rules are followed here and there is no points deduction from the panel, I think we need to respect that and move on.
Comments
I agree but now he’s done it and the genie is out of the bottle. I haven’t been on the Derby fans forum yet but I fully expect that now they are going after us as the new enemy, that’s unfortunately how blinkered home fans get in these situations . However we’ll live with that and he’s absolutely correct when he points out the people running Derby County cheated for years and that’s where the fault lies.
This is one of the gems on their forum. I’m not sure any comments from Rob can be seen as ‘trying to put Derby out of business’, more cranking up the heat a notch. From a business perspective, it’s clear we stand to gain from being in The Championship. If we happen to benefit from
Derby’s situation, then it is right for Rob to pile on a little more pressure and see what happens. If Derby do end up further down the pyramid and in administration or worse, their fans shouldn’t be blaming Rob but instead looking a little closer to home.
I am glad Couhig has put his voice out there. Someone needed to try to move this mess forward and get it properly punished rather than just pushed down the road.
Rather than putting Derby out of business the correct punishment could save them and others from practices that could put them out of business.
Hmm, much more classy to stay quiet and keep what's happening to yourself I think.
We can do the English thing and keep quiet and then roll our eyes in a couple of years when something happens. Or we say ‘DERBY CHEATED. AGAIN AND AGAIN AND THEH ARE NOT ALONE. SORT THIS SHAMBLES OUT’. This is not wycombe v derby this is a cheating club getting away with it.
Absolutely the wrong thing to do at the moment to the wrong target and will ultimately see us gain more enemies. We didn’t get relegated because of Derby’s financial mismanagement, we got relegated because we didn’t get enough points.
There is an argument for suing the EFL for a prolonged process that meant that for 6-8 weeks we we could not apparently guarantee what league we’d be playing in.
I think it would have made more sense to sue Stoke (for example) if their financial compliance is as bad as rumoured - but that is still wrong.
Rob has given their forum something to rail against and my natural tendencies would be to keep quiet and hope for the best but maybe it needs someone to get up, point and shout “this ain’t right”.
I don’t want Derbys money but I don’t want cheating in our game
Totally wrong thing for us to do.
I think it will now result in the EFL making a final decision NOT to deduct points from Derby for any financial irregularities (or at most a suspended punishment). The final league table would therefore stand as it was and consequently result in us having no grounds for any financial claims. Rob could therefore have inadvertantly managed to save Derby from relegation.
Mr Couhig's role as Chairman is to protect our club's interests, I don't think he has any option but to voice his disquiet.
He wouldn't be saying anything contrary to legal advice anyway.
What Derby forget is that they had a 6 points deduction last August initially that was reduced.
Does anyone know how we can listen to what he said at last night's Trust board meeting?
Could you imagine if we had a chairman who didn't bother to explore what could be an absolutely incredible game changing situation for us?
Staying quiet here would have achieved nothing. Good on Rob.
I think Couhig's comments show we are not 'little old Wycombe ' anymore and will roll over . We will stand our ground. However I am not a fan of doing our actions in the press. Couhig is a lawyer so I assume he knows what he is doing.
Rob is a lawyer, however he is a US lawyer. In that, litigious, society they do things different. Our legal system does not favour such a pugnacious approach, a quiet ruthless steely analysis tends to carry the day.
That said, it’s Rob’s ball so he sets the rules and he has chosen to play to his natural advocacy strengths, as he sees it.
I think if I were Derby County responding to Rob Couhig's inane statement I would merely point out that if he was so concerned about the loss of £10m or so from relegation, he could have opened his chequebook in January, bought a player and turned one draw into a win that would have saved Wycombe and relegated Derby.
I applaud Bobby C, people will always say its sour grapes, when one team looks to benefit at another expense.
But Derby have continually cheated, whilst we havent.
I believe the EFL and a lot of other clubs finally want Derby to face Justice.
We may run out of time this season, hence why Bobby C is threatening seeking compensation from the Rams.
Being seen an a small club that could just be ignored can't be the "right" thing to do when dealing with such obviously corrupt and incompetent parties like the FA/EFL/Derby.
Clearly RC has looked over the case and thinks we've got a strong one that shouldn't be allowed to be overlooked
You do realise we lost about 10 net points last season from poor refereeing decisions, including the home game against Derby itself which was a complete scandal.
Rob allowed GA to build a team that was good enough to stay up (and should have stayed up imo) so you can't criticise him for that. He can't be held accountable for one or two points in the grand scheme of a season which involved numerous instances of bad luck
Good line from him in the meeting was along the lines that if a £100k fine is appropriate for that kind of creative accounting and deliberate cheating for years then let's play 12 players v 11 in every game next season and just pay the fine at the end.
He feels very strongly that Derby have deliberately broken the rules and the EFL seem to agree.
IF the appeal is won and a points deduction is handed down now we'd stay up. You can be sure he's going to take an interest in that.
If, as he also thinks is likely, this whole business stretches into the new season and therefore it's too late to apply the deduction this year, then maybe we'd be entitled to claim but I'm not sure Derby could be held responsible for the process dragging on if appeals are allowed, so difficult to know if we could sue anyone.
As for the amount - it would relate to lost earnings so doesn't seem unreasonable but the truth is your expenses go up too.
@WanderingDays we'll have to agree to differ on that. Every club will have seen refereeing decisions go both for and against them. The reason they cost us so many points is because we didn't score enough goals to make them not matter.
The reason we didn't score enough goals? A lot of that comes down to the playing budget, which is set by Rob Couhig. Gareth nearly pulled off the impossible, a remarkable achievement, even more so when considering he had the Herculean task of assembling a squad to compete with the big boys despite a transfer budget probably around £100k. Who knows where we'd be now if that had even been raised to £500k. My guess is, sitting pretty in the Championship, banking the £10m or so Rob now wants to sue Derby for.
All so easy isn't it. Should he have done that at all costs, maybe given a Will Grigg type £4m and £40k a week even if the manager didn't find anyone he rates. Throwing money at it that might not save you and you might not be able to afford is more Derby's style.
Yeah, making a ‘break the bank’ signing always works doesn’t it.
Maybe he could have bought a dozen top players and hoped they turned a few draws into wins, breaking FFP rules in the process, and putting the future of the entire club at risk, but safe in the knowledge any punishment would be inconsequential compared to the extra cash we'd get. But he didn't. Because cheating is wrong.
I agree he should be doing what is best for us, and yes he should be challenging them, but he could be doing all this in private, not shouting it all out to the press
We had £10m in the bank. Buying one player wouldn't have broken it. I think you've still got the 'Little Wycombe' mentality going that Rob doesn't like so much. Last year was an exceptional season for us in so many ways. Not least of which was the ability to spend a little money on the squad with no risk of repercussions.
Cheats and criminals should never be allowed to prosper. Good on you Rob.
The key issue for me is this situation could drag on and suddenly become our major focus, as well as costing a lot of money in solicitors fees.
I feel sad that club has been turned against club, it's not a nice situation
I also feel sorry for Derby's fans. They support and love their club just like we do. They must wish it hadn't been run so spectacularly badly over a number of years
And you know for a fact we had £10million in the bank, do you? Where does that figure come from? I imagine our bank balance has been healthier in the last year than for as long as anyone can remember but can't imagine it has anything close to that hanging around waiting to be spent. The talk from everyone from Ainsworth to the Couhigs has always been that the money we got from being in the Championship would secure the club's long-term future. The EFL is awash with clubs who splashed the cash and it didn't work and they're now feeling the effects.
Birmingham were deducted 9 points, Sheff Weds 6 points for FFP in last two seasons so if Derby have done the same and merit a points deduction then so be it.
The rules clearly need reviewing to provide more clarity. Each level of offence should just have a standard points deduction come with it, that is clear for all fans, owners, journalists etc to understand.
Much like the administration rules, you go into admin = 12 points. Everyone knows where they stand.
Personally, I think we should have been pushing for a decision by the end of June so we could plan properly. Focusing on the process and asking for that to be expedited. I feel any statements should have focused on our inability to plan properly for next season. I've never been a fan of "lost income" because there are so many variables at hand. Not least the fact we finished in the relegation zone.
If the EFL appeal and nothing happens, I suspect Rob will not sue and will retract his statements for one reason or the other.
Derby have cheated, others have cheated but do we want this label? I'm ok with the PPG situation, the rules were followed and we got our chance to win promotion through the play-offs. If the rules are followed here and there is no points deduction from the panel, I think we need to respect that and move on.
But hasn't it already been determined that the rules were not followed?
I suspect like all of us rob just wants shit sorted. It’s no good for anyone. Not us. Not derby. Not the EFL