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  • What I’d like to see happen, is retrospective fixing of obvious errors. That Norwich player who stamped on Fred and threw himself to the floor to get the free kick that won the game should get a 3 match ban for the stamp, another 3 for the dive and the goal should be chalked off, and the points adjusted. That would massively reduce the amount of cheating.

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  • I have been amazed by the level of cheating I've seen this season. The refs have been poor for the most part but I can't see how managers can complain when they all actively send their players out to cheat and con the ref.
    Retrospective punishments are the only way

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  • edited December 2020

    In the case of the Norwich game, that would have been a draw without the goal, but we're getting into very dangerous territory if we go chalking off winners that came half an hour from time.

  • They can never take away Gareth’s handball goal at Col U!

  • I’ve never seen conclusive evidence but the Fred playoff final penalty was supposedly offside. I don’t think they should change that one.

  • @Chris said:
    I’ve never seen conclusive evidence but the Fred playoff final penalty was supposedly offside. I don’t think they should change that one.

    I don't see how anyone could have seen that, as the cameras had to catch up to him when he was already though. Every time I see it, it just looks like he beat the trap perfectly for pace, based on the relative speeds he and the defender are travelling.

    Ironically, that whole sequence started with a free kick won by Bayo, which resulted in a massive shout for handball in their area.

  • @drcongo said:
    What I’d like to see happen, is retrospective fixing of obvious errors. That Norwich player who stamped on Fred and threw himself to the floor to get the free kick that won the game should get a 3 match ban for the stamp, another 3 for the dive and the goal should be chalked off, and the points adjusted. That would massively reduce the amount of cheating.

    Agree up until the goal being chalked off. Retroactively punishing players for their own actions is one thing. Changing the entire result of the match is quite another.

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  • I'd like to think (hope?!) @drcongo 's tongue was firmly in his cheek when he included that bit...

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  • Refereeing is hard, especially when players cheat.
    Technology can make it easier but still not faultless.
    Lets use technology.

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  • It's made football a million times worse

    Anyone arguing otherwise surely just playing devil's advocate

  • And yet here we are with a thread bemoaning referees decisions and the unfair impact they have had on games and results. We can fix this.
    I do think some of the rule changes that have been recently made need revision though despite best intentions - especially offside and handball.

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  • Two posts at the most Dev, but don't let that stand in your way

  • VAR would be great if it was quick and 100% correct, but it's neither. It's a blight upon the game.

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  • If VAR was used by the ref at the stadium to correct obvious errors it would be fine. That’s the Bill of goods we were sold. Instead it’s redefined the laws of the game.

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  • Increased use of technology is potentially fine, VAR is bad.

  • @DevC said:
    Refereeing is hard, especially when players cheat.
    Technology can make it easier but still not faultless.
    Lets use technology.

    What about all the decisions VAR are getting wrong? This is not only supporters bemoaning the system, it is ex referees as well such as Mike Riley.

  • No Eric. Read the link in the opening post.

    VAR hasnt changed the laws of the game, Floyd, but the laws were changed at the same time as VAR was introduced to correct other perceived injustices. In my view those law changes have proven not to work.

    VAR will never be 100% correct but it can be more correct than relying on split second eyesight. The offside law is probably wrong at the moment but however it is redefined there will always be instances balanced on the very dividing line between offside and onside. While not perfect VAR will be more correct than a linesman essentially guessing those very tight decisions. That has to be an improvment IMHO.

    I get others may disagree and I am busy for rest of day now. I'll leave it there. But if you seek to not have VAR, by definition you are accepting bad refereeing decisions that we could get right.

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  • @Chris said:
    I’ve never seen conclusive evidence but the Fred playoff final penalty was supposedly offside. I don’t think they should change that one.

    A fan of another team in our current division said to me that it wouldn't have counted in the championship.
    Not sure what he meant as there's no VAR at this level.
    I can't imagine he was meaning the linesmen are better?!

  • There is a far simpler solution and I say this half seriously and half tongue in cheek.

    Remove TV cameras and replays altogether. Then everyone only gets to see it once, like the referees and assistants and we can all move on.

    Of course, that isn't going to happen so what else can we do.

    Stop being so critical and bring some respect and discipline in for the officials.

    Actually back officials when they send players off or book them for dissent. The clubs should then come down heavily on their players and not blame the officials.

    For those key incidents I'd ensure the officials have microphones turned up so we can hear everything as well, the players and the ref. That ought to sort the respect and language out.

    Norwich complaining about Luton is so hypocritical after the decision they got against us.

    VAR - if we are going to keep it, use it sparingly and ensure the referee has access to it. Put it on the big screen like rugby and get the questioning right. "Is there a clear reason I cannot award that penalty or that goal." " Do you agree that elbow to the face warrants a red card or is it a yellow"

    Tweak the offside rule so if any part of the body is level the forward is onside OR go the whole hog and get rid of offside altogether.

  • Offside rules were changed to supposedly make things easier for Var.
    Either way it's shocking, we now get to debate not just the bad decision but also the 2nd bad decision on the same item and the application of the review process, decisions are still wrong and play is either held up or pulled back and there is probably added pressure on refs to agree with their colleagues reviews. Doesn't seem to be making decision making any better or settling any debate.

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  • @Commoner with you on the last bit...fat goalhangers like me would be 20 goals a season marquee signings!
    For me VAR is ruining the game, a forward pointing where he wants a ball or someone with their back to the action having a heel over the line is not interfering with play in my opinion. Rule changes may help but yet again...like the Champions League this is about big clubs worried about decisions affecting their pockets.

  • What I don't follow is why we have VAR in the top flight to look at decisions while the game is going on but have no retrospective look after the game to pick up on cheating.

    The rule changes to allow VAR to mess the game up are ruining the sport. When someone has a goal disallowed for having the hand that pointed where he wanted the pass offside the sport is gone.

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  • The calls in rugby are a lot easier too.
    There's no doubt if a hoof over the bars has gone over or not, or whether a forward pass has been made.

    But yes in general there's a reason that crap footy teams are called rugby teams - with the over physical approach and aimless smashing of the ball.

  • edited December 2020

    @Malone said:

    The calls in rugby are a lot easier too.
    There's no doubt if a hoof over the bars has gone over or not, or whether a forward pass has been made.

    But yes in general there's a reason that crap footy teams are called rugby teams - with the over physical approach and aimless smashing of the ball.

    Talking of aimlessly smashing the ball... (Going to RGS just conditioned me to hate rugby.)

  • Having hated playing it at school (new sports teacher who hated football) and never watched it on telly I went to see the Wasps at AP because the child's school were given free tickets. They were playing a top team at the time (I want to say Leeds) Beyond being able to take beer to your seat I found it an underwhelming sporting experience and...I seem to recall...I'd been watching supposed poor quality L2 football the day before.

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  • People getting too pissy about incorrect refereeing decisions need to grow up a bit and take it all a bit less seriously IMO

    One of the worst things about Neil Harman's book for me was his constant banging on about referees. And my only criticism of the otherwise excellent 3CR coverage of Wycombe games is when Messrs Turnbull and Party turn their ire upon the matchday officials.

    Just find it cringey

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  • @chairboyscentral said:

    @Malone said:

    The calls in rugby are a lot easier too.
    There's no doubt if a hoof over the bars has gone over or not, or whether a forward pass has been made.

    But yes in general there's a reason that crap footy teams are called rugby teams - with the over physical approach and aimless smashing of the ball.

    Talking of aimlessly smashing the ball... (Going to RGS just conditioned me to hate rugby.)

    Like watching Barnsley vs Wycombe. Wouldn't want to watch that every week.

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  • That particular passage of play has led to a lot of debate and an insistence from fans/pundits that there is a need for changing the rules in rugby to stop the kick fest and get back to running with the ball. Historically that is not the norm, a bit like our endless punts to Bayo on Weds at Barnsley was not the norm as we tend to mix it up a bit more.

    Whilst it appears the majority of football fans dislike rugby and think it's boring and the players are neanderthals etc, etc. The way the technology in league & union has been honed over a number of years and is now pretty good at getting decisions correct it could be useful to learn from in football in CERTAIN situations. I agree it may be difficult to apply in all.

    Or is everything simply to be dismissed from rugby because it's "rugby"?

  • On a more football related note, it still drives me mad that a striker who is playing centrally and two yards offside when the ball is played out to the winger who is onside is allowed to continue his run and pop the ball in the back of the net. This is typically let go when the striker is near the half way line.

    The defender generally stands no chance of catching back up with him. The striker has clearly gained an advantage. I'd like to see the rules changed and that kind of goal ruled out.

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