Tranmere's proposal shouldn't even make the ballot, especially after the EFL seemed to reject the idea of expanded play-offs. Ian Dennis was saying they'll want conformity across the divisions, and League Two seem pretty set on PPG with normal end of season conditions.
I’m beginning to wonder if the EFL knows there’s no proposal that’s going to please everyone, and no safe or financially viable way to start playing again, so they’re letting the clock run out.
@floyd said:
I’m beginning to wonder if the EFL knows there’s no proposal that’s going to please everyone, and no safe or financially viable way to start playing again, so they’re letting the clock run out.
They're certainly being "clever" in allowing the clubs to decide, meaning they minimise scrutiny on themselves down the line.
But yes, clearly the longer they spin this out, the more impossible any idea of playing the season out becomes.
You'd need 4-5 weeks to play the standard league games out, even with midweekers.
Then at least 10 days to play any playoffs out.
So 6-7 weeks once they've decided by almost mid June, and presumably you can't start for 2 weeks after the decision at earliest.
So there is barely time as it stands now, unless they intend to rock straight into 20/21
Rumour is that a new EFL rule is about to be enacted....
"All 23 teams will now have the option to submit a mathematical formula, by which the current season can be finalised.
Such formula should obey the following rules:-
1] It should ensure the promotion of the submitting team, no matter what their current standing.
2] It should respect the inalienable rights of the "big six" clubs to be included in the promotion or playoff places.
3] It should ensure the relegation of that "Wycombe" club, who have, for far too long, usurped their natural place in the scheme of things, by having the temerity to monopolise the top position in the league mainly by the use of underhand and unfair tactics.
All submissions to be received by last post sometime.
The voting on the chosen submission will take place on the 3rd Friday in the 1st month with 2 full moons and a solar eclipse.
How can any club chairman or fan campaign for a full play out of this season, when:
a) there are 300-400 people a day currently dying.
b) https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52914066
There just simply isn't the time or money in the pot to wait until 2021 to carry on with D. Macanthonys' crusade.
Personally, I don't care much for even the playoffs, given the testing results keep randomly popping up with positives. It would feel an empty pot to go up on PPG. The risk to the players & extended families isn't worth it in my opinion. Finish the season now, PPG it, let the top two go up, bottom three go down, no more football until it is much much safer to do so. Maybe get rid of the PL teams out of the league cup next season, as they are never interested until near the quarters anyway. The "nobody gives a crap cup" can be suspended for a year also, which few fans care about until they are within a sniff of Wembley. Start the next season a little bit later & give everyone a better chance of attending & playing in safety. If the PL & Championship are adamant they wish to carry on, financially driven because of the level of rebates they will have to give, then force them to come up with a generous rescue package for the lower tiers to aid them survive. Without the lower leagues the whole of the pyramid system will suffer in the long term and our international level will drop, after all that was the claim of the FA when they introduced the limit on transfer fees from PL to lower league clubs wasn't it?
I don't really want the play-offs, because the only sane point D. McA and Talksport Drive have made is that it's a bit hypocritical to vote against the season carrying on, but be willing to play a few extra games to get promoted.
Also, do we really want to see us play in the Championship in empty stadiums for the best part of half the season?
@prufrock_91 said:
I don't really want the play-offs, because the only sane point D. McA and Talksport Drive have made is that it's a bit hypocritical to vote against the season carrying on, but be willing to play a few extra games to get promoted.
Also, do we really want to see us play in the Championship in empty stadiums for the best part of half the season?
If clubs are given two options, play it out or play just playoffs, how would you expect us to vote? Knowing that itd be financially mad to try and play all games out.
Presumably there is no third option of voiding it.
@prufrock_91 said:
I don't really want the play-offs, because the only sane point D. McA and Talksport Drive have made is that it's a bit hypocritical to vote against the season carrying on, but be willing to play a few extra games to get promoted.
Also, do we really want to see us play in the Championship in empty stadiums for the best part of half the season?
I've seen lots of people with this opinion, but it's a strange argument
1) It's better to be playing in empty Championship stadiums for half the season than empty League One stadiums for half the season
2) We'll get far more TV money in the Championship, which will help keep us afloat
3) We've got a far better chance of being in the Championship when we are eventually allowed to attend matches again than by staying in League One
I can’t speak for others on here @WanderingDays but the reason I would prefer we didn’t go up has nothing to do with your points 2 & 3 (I would imagine for the club it is better) and everything to do with point 1.
Playing in the Championship would be the highest peak we have scaled as a football club (so far). If you believe that a football club is as much about the fans as the players and owners, I’ll stretch my analogy to explain how I think I’d feel.
Imaging climbing Mount Everest. Suddenly you get near the top but told only part of your group can go up and you’ve got to stay at Camp 4. Yes you would wish those going upwards well and cheer for the success. But a big part of you (well me anyway) would be gutted that you are not with your group as they finally reach the summit.
So I guess it’s probably selfishness on my part, but that’s where I come from on the debate
@chairboyscentral said:
The way things are being eased, we'll be allowed back in stadiums by autumn. Obviously whether people go back or not is another matter.
Not a chance unfortunately, it's one thing the govt ignoring science advice now while the numbers are still reducing, it's another thing once the body count starts rising again and it becomes even more clear how inept the response has been compared to the rest of Europe if they manage to maintain deaths at 1% the rate we have.
@chairboyscentral said:
The way things are being eased, we'll be allowed back in stadiums by autumn. Obviously whether people go back or not is another matter.
Not a chance unfortunately, it's one thing the govt ignoring science advice now while the numbers are still reducing, it's another thing once the body count starts rising again and it becomes even more clear how inept the response has been compared to the rest of Europe if they manage to maintain deaths at 1% the rate we have.
We'll see. No denying the handling has been unforgivably shambolic, but I'm interested in how some doctors in Italy are saying it's pretty much petered out there. Sounds like it's lost its potency.
@chairboyscentral said:
The way things are being eased, we'll be allowed back in stadiums by autumn. Obviously whether people go back or not is another matter.
Not a chance unfortunately, it's one thing the govt ignoring science advice now while the numbers are still reducing, it's another thing once the body count starts rising again and it becomes even more clear how inept the response has been compared to the rest of Europe if they manage to maintain deaths at 1% the rate we have.
Using the term 'body count' is both inflammatory and lacking in empathy for the current human crisis. I happen to agree with @chairboyscentral on this. It will be a risk though.
@chairboyscentral said:
The way things are being eased, we'll be allowed back in stadiums by autumn. Obviously whether people go back or not is another matter.
Not a chance unfortunately, it's one thing the govt ignoring science advice now while the numbers are still reducing, it's another thing once the body count starts rising again and it becomes even more clear how inept the response has been compared to the rest of Europe if they manage to maintain deaths at 1% the rate we have.
We'll see. No denying the handling has been unforgivably shambolic, but I'm interested in how some doctors in Italy are saying it's pretty much petered out there. Sounds like it's lost its potency.
Careful with your conclusions here @chairboyscentral. Dr friends of mine have expressed alarm at this view as viruses don’t really ‘lose potency’ especially over such a short time.
There is a Washington Post article that addresses this but there are more stories responding to this in other outlets.
“ The consensus among other experts interviewed Monday is that the clinical findings in Italy likely do not reflect any change in the virus itself.
Zangrillo’s clinical observations are more likely a reflection of the fact that with the peak of the outbreak long past, there is less virus in circulation, and people may be less likely to be exposed to high doses of it. In addition, only severely sick people were likely to be tested early on, compared with the situation now when even those with mild symptoms are more likely to get swabbed, experts said.”
@chairboyscentral said:
The way things are being eased, we'll be allowed back in stadiums by autumn. Obviously whether people go back or not is another matter.
Not a chance unfortunately, it's one thing the govt ignoring science advice now while the numbers are still reducing, it's another thing once the body count starts rising again and it becomes even more clear how inept the response has been compared to the rest of Europe if they manage to maintain deaths at 1% the rate we have.
Using the term 'body count' is both inflammatory and lacking in empathy for the current human crisis. I happen to agree with @chairboyscentral on this. It will be a risk though.
All a point of view, playing down the scale of the failures and negligence is lacking empathy to me, as is the recent up tick in people using terms like "any government would make mistakes" to excuse political decisions made.
We seem to have accepted that we will have 100s of deaths a day while the rest of Europe has a tiny fraction of that, that is directly the fault of the government and I don't regret my use of body count, other teams make it seem like the deaths couldn't have been avoided
I can see no reasonable or valid reason why the playoff are even being considered. Irrespective of the fact they may be played in front of cameras, not fans. Two full teams plus support staff, officials, plus technical & broadcasting staff will need to attend each of the 5 (minimum) games. All this for the sake of promoting one team. It seems a bizarre and wholly unnecessary risk to take.
@chairboyscentral said:
The way things are being eased, we'll be allowed back in stadiums by autumn. Obviously whether people go back or not is another matter.
Not a chance unfortunately, it's one thing the govt ignoring science advice now while the numbers are still reducing, it's another thing once the body count starts rising again and it becomes even more clear how inept the response has been compared to the rest of Europe if they manage to maintain deaths at 1% the rate we have.
Using the term 'body count' is both inflammatory and lacking in empathy for the current human crisis. I happen to agree with @chairboyscentral on this. It will be a risk though.
All a point of view, playing down the scale of the failures and negligence is lacking empathy to me, as is the recent up tick in people using terms like "any government would make mistakes" to excuse political decisions made.
We seem to have accepted that we will have 100s of deaths a day while the rest of Europe has a tiny fraction of that, that is directly the fault of the government and I don't regret my use of body count, other teams make it seem like the deaths couldn't have been avoided
See I'd argue the term 'body count' does exactly what you claim to not like. It's a battle term reducing a person dying to a number. I agree with everything else you are saying but find that term a bit Trumpian if you see.
One thing our scientists should do is contact, trace and track the Hyde Park protesters from yesterday. The horrible sight of a roving mob in the current lockdown is a perfect test for how the virus would move now around a large outdoor crowd.
Could lead to proper sanctioned outdoor gatherings if the transmission rate is low.
Comments
Clear as mud this
Tranmere's full proposal is also available to read here. Results in an 8 team play off and relegation for only Southend and Bolton.
https://www.tranmererovers.co.uk/news/2020/june/chairmans-statement/
Tranmere's proposal shouldn't even make the ballot, especially after the EFL seemed to reject the idea of expanded play-offs. Ian Dennis was saying they'll want conformity across the divisions, and League Two seem pretty set on PPG with normal end of season conditions.
How can Tranmere give a proposal affecting the playoffs?
It's none of their business.
Itl'd be like us sticking our nose into the relegation zone.
Does "consider" mean "vote on" or fartarse around some more?
I’m beginning to wonder if the EFL knows there’s no proposal that’s going to please everyone, and no safe or financially viable way to start playing again, so they’re letting the clock run out.
More negativity. For goodness sake EFL make a decision.
They're certainly being "clever" in allowing the clubs to decide, meaning they minimise scrutiny on themselves down the line.
But yes, clearly the longer they spin this out, the more impossible any idea of playing the season out becomes.
You'd need 4-5 weeks to play the standard league games out, even with midweekers.
Then at least 10 days to play any playoffs out.
So 6-7 weeks once they've decided by almost mid June, and presumably you can't start for 2 weeks after the decision at earliest.
So there is barely time as it stands now, unless they intend to rock straight into 20/21
Rumour is that a new EFL rule is about to be enacted....
"All 23 teams will now have the option to submit a mathematical formula, by which the current season can be finalised.
Such formula should obey the following rules:-
1] It should ensure the promotion of the submitting team, no matter what their current standing.
2] It should respect the inalienable rights of the "big six" clubs to be included in the promotion or playoff places.
3] It should ensure the relegation of that "Wycombe" club, who have, for far too long, usurped their natural place in the scheme of things, by having the temerity to monopolise the top position in the league mainly by the use of underhand and unfair tactics.
All submissions to be received by last post sometime.
The voting on the chosen submission will take place on the 3rd Friday in the 1st month with 2 full moons and a solar eclipse.
Would those 2 full moons have to align with youranus though?
Good discussion on the EFL (mainly League One) here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000jn
How can any club chairman or fan campaign for a full play out of this season, when:
a) there are 300-400 people a day currently dying.
b) https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52914066
There just simply isn't the time or money in the pot to wait until 2021 to carry on with D. Macanthonys' crusade.
Personally, I don't care much for even the playoffs, given the testing results keep randomly popping up with positives. It would feel an empty pot to go up on PPG. The risk to the players & extended families isn't worth it in my opinion. Finish the season now, PPG it, let the top two go up, bottom three go down, no more football until it is much much safer to do so. Maybe get rid of the PL teams out of the league cup next season, as they are never interested until near the quarters anyway. The "nobody gives a crap cup" can be suspended for a year also, which few fans care about until they are within a sniff of Wembley. Start the next season a little bit later & give everyone a better chance of attending & playing in safety. If the PL & Championship are adamant they wish to carry on, financially driven because of the level of rebates they will have to give, then force them to come up with a generous rescue package for the lower tiers to aid them survive. Without the lower leagues the whole of the pyramid system will suffer in the long term and our international level will drop, after all that was the claim of the FA when they introduced the limit on transfer fees from PL to lower league clubs wasn't it?
I don't really want the play-offs, because the only sane point D. McA and Talksport Drive have made is that it's a bit hypocritical to vote against the season carrying on, but be willing to play a few extra games to get promoted.
Also, do we really want to see us play in the Championship in empty stadiums for the best part of half the season?
That is not hypocritical at all.
It's a vote. We vote for our preferred option whilst accepting the result of the vote.
I honestly can't see why this is so difficult to grasp
If clubs are given two options, play it out or play just playoffs, how would you expect us to vote? Knowing that itd be financially mad to try and play all games out.
Presumably there is no third option of voiding it.
Voting to end the season for financial reasons but being willing to play in televised play offs is in no way hypocritical
I've seen lots of people with this opinion, but it's a strange argument
1) It's better to be playing in empty Championship stadiums for half the season than empty League One stadiums for half the season
2) We'll get far more TV money in the Championship, which will help keep us afloat
3) We've got a far better chance of being in the Championship when we are eventually allowed to attend matches again than by staying in League One
It's a no-brainer
The way things are being eased, we'll be allowed back in stadiums by autumn. Obviously whether people go back or not is another matter.
I can’t speak for others on here @WanderingDays but the reason I would prefer we didn’t go up has nothing to do with your points 2 & 3 (I would imagine for the club it is better) and everything to do with point 1.
Playing in the Championship would be the highest peak we have scaled as a football club (so far). If you believe that a football club is as much about the fans as the players and owners, I’ll stretch my analogy to explain how I think I’d feel.
Imaging climbing Mount Everest. Suddenly you get near the top but told only part of your group can go up and you’ve got to stay at Camp 4. Yes you would wish those going upwards well and cheer for the success. But a big part of you (well me anyway) would be gutted that you are not with your group as they finally reach the summit.
So I guess it’s probably selfishness on my part, but that’s where I come from on the debate
Not a chance unfortunately, it's one thing the govt ignoring science advice now while the numbers are still reducing, it's another thing once the body count starts rising again and it becomes even more clear how inept the response has been compared to the rest of Europe if they manage to maintain deaths at 1% the rate we have.
The lack of leadership from the EFL would be shocking if it wasn’t so utterly predictable.
We'll see. No denying the handling has been unforgivably shambolic, but I'm interested in how some doctors in Italy are saying it's pretty much petered out there. Sounds like it's lost its potency.
Using the term 'body count' is both inflammatory and lacking in empathy for the current human crisis. I happen to agree with @chairboyscentral on this. It will be a risk though.
What time does the Mount Everest climb start? Will there be Durdle Door level numbers there and is Dominic Cummings coming along?
Dominic Cummings is trying Mount Snowden first to see if he is fit enough to tackle Evrrest!
Careful with your conclusions here @chairboyscentral. Dr friends of mine have expressed alarm at this view as viruses don’t really ‘lose potency’ especially over such a short time.
There is a Washington Post article that addresses this but there are more stories responding to this in other outlets.
“ The consensus among other experts interviewed Monday is that the clinical findings in Italy likely do not reflect any change in the virus itself.
Zangrillo’s clinical observations are more likely a reflection of the fact that with the peak of the outbreak long past, there is less virus in circulation, and people may be less likely to be exposed to high doses of it. In addition, only severely sick people were likely to be tested early on, compared with the situation now when even those with mild symptoms are more likely to get swabbed, experts said.”
Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/experts-dispute-reports-coronavirus-is-becoming-less-lethal/2020/06/01/8f8ace7c-a432-11ea-b619-3f9133bbb482_story.html
All a point of view, playing down the scale of the failures and negligence is lacking empathy to me, as is the recent up tick in people using terms like "any government would make mistakes" to excuse political decisions made.
We seem to have accepted that we will have 100s of deaths a day while the rest of Europe has a tiny fraction of that, that is directly the fault of the government and I don't regret my use of body count, other teams make it seem like the deaths couldn't have been avoided
I can see no reasonable or valid reason why the playoff are even being considered. Irrespective of the fact they may be played in front of cameras, not fans. Two full teams plus support staff, officials, plus technical & broadcasting staff will need to attend each of the 5 (minimum) games. All this for the sake of promoting one team. It seems a bizarre and wholly unnecessary risk to take.
See I'd argue the term 'body count' does exactly what you claim to not like. It's a battle term reducing a person dying to a number. I agree with everything else you are saying but find that term a bit Trumpian if you see.
One thing our scientists should do is contact, trace and track the Hyde Park protesters from yesterday. The horrible sight of a roving mob in the current lockdown is a perfect test for how the virus would move now around a large outdoor crowd.
Could lead to proper sanctioned outdoor gatherings if the transmission rate is low.
Chances of any of this happening? Zero