@Onlooker said: @chairboyscentral - Having scrolled through your personal twitter feed I think you have some front calling out Josh for his social media activity. If you worked for me I would certainly be ‘having a word’
Intriguing post. What do you mean by that? I looked, but it's protected. And I presume it wasn't just protected in the 10mins since you posted that!
Protected it as whoever Onlooker is seems to be keeping an eye on it - they may be following, but if they're not then I'd have to approve it now.
It’s an intriguing debate. Obviously Josh Parker’s opinions and behaviour online are concerning (and unacceptable and downright stupid and insulting in the latest one) and do risk tarnishing the reputation of the club. The club should be made aware (although I’m sure they already know) and it is an internal conduct management issue.
Where I agree with @Onlooker however is that publicly ‘flagging’ these, which @chairboyscentral has a (what seems to me to be gleeful) tendency to do, can seem a little distasteful to me and in many ways exacerbates the problem.
To me, we are observing someone with ‘problems’ in a context not directly related to what they do. Highlighting these to everyone in a twitter feed is, to me, the equivalent of pointing at the poor old confused guy who has unfortunately wet himself in the street and yelling “look at that weirdo - he’s pissed himself.”
I’m not having a go at you Tom. I think it may be a generational thing that disappoints some of us who didn’t grow up in a social media environment. I value your contributions on here and I appreciate you have journalistic instincts. I just think that this is more Daily Star than Guardian.
I know tommy robinson is a racist thug (depending on the full context that we dont know) and i dont support him but i believe in free speech but when @chairboyscentral exercises his right to debate an issue i dont like it and i think he is a troublemaker because it makes me a family man and all round nice guy have to defend the rights of a racist thug. But I'm not a racist I am a supporter of free speech and if we stop racists from speaking and getting publicity we will all be in a liberal lizard elite commie LGBT+ run gulag in a month or so.
Well there’s certainly a preponderance of passion there @Wendoverman but precious little punctuation. You fair got carried away. For a moment, I thought you were saying that @chairboyscentral exercising his right to debate was turning you into a family man and all round nice guy.
All this social media stalking and outrage is weird for me as someone from an older generation.
Josh Parker has a picture with a bad man. No idea when it was taken. Someone gets really annoyed by it. Much debate follows including some sinister social media stalking of someone calling out the angry man.
Anything I'm missing? Hoping Josh fires us to the Championship tomorrow. Even if not everyone cheers.
@Right_in_the_Middle said:
All this social media stalking and outrage is weird for me as someone from an older generation.
Josh Parker has a picture with a bad man. No idea when it was taken. Someone gets really annoyed by it. Much debate follows including some sinister social media stalking of someone calling out the angry man.
Anything I'm missing? Hoping Josh fires us to the Championship tomorrow. Even if not everyone cheers.
It was hardly stalking @Right_in_the_Middle - I came across it while looking for any further details around the event Josh had attended.
@Wendoverman said:
I know tommy robinson is a racist thug (depending on the full context that we dont know) and i dont support him but i believe in free speech but when @chairboyscentral exercises his right to debate an issue i dont like it and i think he is a troublemaker because it makes me a family man and all round nice guy have to defend the rights of a racist thug. But I'm not a racist I am a supporter of free speech and if we stop racists from speaking and getting publicity we will all be in a liberal lizard elite commie LGBT+ run gulag in a month or so.
@wendoverman I was trying to make the point that I have several things in common with Josh. No doubt with Tom too. I would rather engage with people rather than try to hound them out.
I think Josh has written quite a lot of, shall we say, controversial stuff over the past few months @Right_in_the_Middle which has occasioned considerable concern and a genuine wish to support him amongst many well meaning Wycombe fans.
@micra said:
I think Josh has written quite a lot of, shall we say, controversial stuff over the past few months @Right_in_the_Middle which has occasioned considerable concern and a genuine wish to support him amongst many well meaning Wycombe fans.
I think Josh has raised two or three controversial topics on his Instagram without really stating his own views on any of them in any detail. One Gasroom poster with occasional press access likes to point them out and condemn them.
I've read all Josh's posts over time. I enjoy his courage to raise issues others stay clear of. I honestly don't know if he's controversial himself. I do think discussions should be opened up rather than shut down.
I'm certain that most Wycombe fans support him. It's just a shame a few don't
For what I understand Josh attended a debate on free speech given by Yaxley-Lennon and Sa Ra Garvey. I would not associate myself with YL views in any way, and from a quick look SRG seems to have limited views on LGBT for example.
Was it wrong to post a picture of attending the event? Unwise but not necessarily wrong. But having decided to do so perhaps, and I emphasise perhaps, Josh decided it inappropriate to post a picture of him with one and not with the other.
This is the same player who suggested that COVID-19 was karma for the immunocompromised. I don't know how that can be justified in any way. There may be psychological factors at play - I think we've all read about his horrific experience in Serbia - but that can't be used to mitigate everything. This isn't 'hounding out', it's raising a legitimate concern about an ambassador for the club, I feel.
He's also not social distancing in either photo - not singling him out, we heard about the player in Aldi for example, but it's unwise to be pictured in that situation.
Can’t we just leave it at genuine concern without rehearsing details of texts, photographs etc some of which are not that recent? This doesn’t feel like the right time to be debating such personal issues.
@micra said:
Can’t we just leave it at genuine concern without rehearsing details of texts, photographs etc some of which are not that recent? This doesn’t feel like the right time to be debating such personal issues.
I'm just saying I think it's an accumulation of things that bother some people. I'm leaving it there, though, as we've got a rather big day tomorrow.
It's like people having their picture taken with jeffrey epstein or travelling on his private jet it does not mean you knew what he was up to or supported it. He was just an interesting guy to chat to while surrounded by teenage girls. People always jumping to conclusions. Shame on you @chairboyscentral ! Luckily most wycombe fans can make their own minds up.
You don’t defeat the likes of Robinson by no platforming them. Those attracted to him feed on fear and self-pity. No platform just gives them something new to be outraged by. Better to listen to what he says and then systematically take it apart , just as Griffin was all those yeas ago.
Parker is more than entitled to attend such an event if he chooses to.
@DevC said:
You don’t defeat the likes of Robinson by no platforming them. Those attracted to him feed on fear and self-pity. No platform just gives them something new to be outraged by. Better to listen to what he says and then systematically take it apart , just as Griffin was all those yeas ago.
Parker is more than entitled to attend such an event if he chooses to.
What he's said has been systematically taken apart so many times already we're beyond that.
He preys on the vulnerable, angry and frankly uneducated, giving him a platform allows him to continue doing so.
Where would you draw the line of giving someone a platform? A overt neo-nazi?
@DevC said:
Parker is more than entitled to attend such an event if he chooses to.
I think @chairboyscentral's point about the lack of social distancing is quite apposite. I don't know when this event was held, maybe Friday, but I hate to think Josh heading to that, than into training the next day, just in time to potentially infect all the squad before Monday, given the virus is believed to take two days before symptoms start to show. The last thing Gareth needs is a bunch of players developing a cough and a fever on the coach to Wembley.
@DevC said:
You can never suppress ideas @Username especially in the Internet age. Trying to do just gives legitimacy to the outrage his supporters seek.
That isn't a reason to legitimize them to other sections of society by giving them a respected platform, people stupid enough to think that Tommy Robinson is being silenced because he's some sort of victim are beyond help anyway, the evidence against him is overwhelming so supporters of his are either straight out racists, or too stupid to be taught otherwise
But it’s not about suppressing ideas, it’s about not being seen to ‘promote’ or be associated with such ideas as a society reasonably concludes are unacceptable to that society.
The Epstein analogy @Wendoverman used earlier is a good one in this case. Correctly as a society we now question those around him for their association with someone most people consider unacceptable and abhorrent.
In a sane society (and I remain optimistic we will reach that point) the views and behaviour of Robinson and his cronies will similarly be seen to be unacceptable (if not quite as abhorrent) and to be seen in their company rightly invites questions.
There is a time to debate uncomfortable ideas, there is a time to fight against uncomfortable ideas and there are times, especially in the social media age, to not engage with them and give them the publicity they also seek.
I aim to change the minds of some who support Robinson’s politics while recognising I will not succeed with all. I find that is easier to do if I haven’t thrown insults at them first.
@chairboyscentral said:
This is the same player who suggested that COVID-19 was karma for the immunocompromised. I don't know how that can be justified in any way. There may be psychological factors at play - I think we've all read about his horrific experience in Serbia - but that can't be used to mitigate everything. This isn't 'hounding out', it's raising a legitimate concern about an ambassador for the club, I feel.
He's also not social distancing in either photo - not singling him out, we heard about the player in Aldi for example, but it's unwise to be pictured in that situation.
Two points
Josh made a post with an article suggesting that point rather than making the point himself.
@DevC said:
I aim to change the minds of some who support Robinson’s politics while recognising I will not succeed with all. I find that is easier to do if I haven’t thrown insults at them first.
I used to agree with that view, but I've tried, and seen so many other people try and fail.
Robinsons story is widely known enough now that pleading ignorance isn't really an excuse, and the majority of supposedly "reasonable" supporters of his are in fact just racists once you get to the crux of the matter, and unfortunately those who aren't just arent capable on understanding the nuance required to debunk Robinson's rhetoric...hence why they were convinced in the first place.
I'm sure there are a few others that don't fall into those camps, but my patience has run out and IMO the best way to squash them now is for them to be viewed as socially abhorrent ( as they should be). Noone would bat an eyelid and warn people against insulting nazis, Ronsinsons views arent far off no matter what public image hes trying to portray so I have no qualms calling a racist a racist, or insulting one.
Comments
Protected it as whoever Onlooker is seems to be keeping an eye on it - they may be following, but if they're not then I'd have to approve it now.
I too looked, and got in before it was protected.
A few swear words but didn’t see anything worth complaining about in the shorts can I had.
If you worked for me I wouldn’t be bothered
@Onlooker Have messaged you privately as I'm genuinely interested in what you've just said
It’s an intriguing debate. Obviously Josh Parker’s opinions and behaviour online are concerning (and unacceptable and downright stupid and insulting in the latest one) and do risk tarnishing the reputation of the club. The club should be made aware (although I’m sure they already know) and it is an internal conduct management issue.
Where I agree with @Onlooker however is that publicly ‘flagging’ these, which @chairboyscentral has a (what seems to me to be gleeful) tendency to do, can seem a little distasteful to me and in many ways exacerbates the problem.
To me, we are observing someone with ‘problems’ in a context not directly related to what they do. Highlighting these to everyone in a twitter feed is, to me, the equivalent of pointing at the poor old confused guy who has unfortunately wet himself in the street and yelling “look at that weirdo - he’s pissed himself.”
I’m not having a go at you Tom. I think it may be a generational thing that disappoints some of us who didn’t grow up in a social media environment. I value your contributions on here and I appreciate you have journalistic instincts. I just think that this is more Daily Star than Guardian.
I know tommy robinson is a racist thug (depending on the full context that we dont know) and i dont support him but i believe in free speech but when @chairboyscentral exercises his right to debate an issue i dont like it and i think he is a troublemaker because it makes me a family man and all round nice guy have to defend the rights of a racist thug. But I'm not a racist I am a supporter of free speech and if we stop racists from speaking and getting publicity we will all be in a liberal lizard elite commie LGBT+ run gulag in a month or so.
Well there’s certainly a preponderance of passion there @Wendoverman but precious little punctuation. You fair got carried away. For a moment, I thought you were saying that @chairboyscentral exercising his right to debate was turning you into a family man and all round nice guy.
All this social media stalking and outrage is weird for me as someone from an older generation.
Josh Parker has a picture with a bad man. No idea when it was taken. Someone gets really annoyed by it. Much debate follows including some sinister social media stalking of someone calling out the angry man.
Anything I'm missing? Hoping Josh fires us to the Championship tomorrow. Even if not everyone cheers.
It was hardly stalking @Right_in_the_Middle - I came across it while looking for any further details around the event Josh had attended.
@wendoverman I was trying to make the point that I have several things in common with Josh. No doubt with Tom too. I would rather engage with people rather than try to hound them out.
I think Josh has written quite a lot of, shall we say, controversial stuff over the past few months @Right_in_the_Middle which has occasioned considerable concern and a genuine wish to support him amongst many well meaning Wycombe fans.
I think Josh has raised two or three controversial topics on his Instagram without really stating his own views on any of them in any detail. One Gasroom poster with occasional press access likes to point them out and condemn them.
I've read all Josh's posts over time. I enjoy his courage to raise issues others stay clear of. I honestly don't know if he's controversial himself. I do think discussions should be opened up rather than shut down.
I'm certain that most Wycombe fans support him. It's just a shame a few don't
For what I understand Josh attended a debate on free speech given by Yaxley-Lennon and Sa Ra Garvey. I would not associate myself with YL views in any way, and from a quick look SRG seems to have limited views on LGBT for example.
Was it wrong to post a picture of attending the event? Unwise but not necessarily wrong. But having decided to do so perhaps, and I emphasise perhaps, Josh decided it inappropriate to post a picture of him with one and not with the other.
Hear hear to all of that @Right_in_the_Middle .
This is the same player who suggested that COVID-19 was karma for the immunocompromised. I don't know how that can be justified in any way. There may be psychological factors at play - I think we've all read about his horrific experience in Serbia - but that can't be used to mitigate everything. This isn't 'hounding out', it's raising a legitimate concern about an ambassador for the club, I feel.
He's also not social distancing in either photo - not singling him out, we heard about the player in Aldi for example, but it's unwise to be pictured in that situation.
Can’t we just leave it at genuine concern without rehearsing details of texts, photographs etc some of which are not that recent? This doesn’t feel like the right time to be debating such personal issues.
I'm just saying I think it's an accumulation of things that bother some people. I'm leaving it there, though, as we've got a rather big day tomorrow.
I’ve read your Twitter for a long time Tom and I’d be proud if I was your employer.
It's like people having their picture taken with jeffrey epstein or travelling on his private jet it does not mean you knew what he was up to or supported it. He was just an interesting guy to chat to while surrounded by teenage girls. People always jumping to conclusions. Shame on you @chairboyscentral ! Luckily most wycombe fans can make their own minds up.
Really stupid thing for Josh to do, especially right now.
There really is no excuse for giving Tommy ten names a platform
You don’t defeat the likes of Robinson by no platforming them. Those attracted to him feed on fear and self-pity. No platform just gives them something new to be outraged by. Better to listen to what he says and then systematically take it apart , just as Griffin was all those yeas ago.
Parker is more than entitled to attend such an event if he chooses to.
What he's said has been systematically taken apart so many times already we're beyond that.
He preys on the vulnerable, angry and frankly uneducated, giving him a platform allows him to continue doing so.
Where would you draw the line of giving someone a platform? A overt neo-nazi?
I think @chairboyscentral's point about the lack of social distancing is quite apposite. I don't know when this event was held, maybe Friday, but I hate to think Josh heading to that, than into training the next day, just in time to potentially infect all the squad before Monday, given the virus is believed to take two days before symptoms start to show. The last thing Gareth needs is a bunch of players developing a cough and a fever on the coach to Wembley.
Following professional footballers on social media only ever leads to trouble. Jason Cousins wouldn’t have been on Instagram.
You can never suppress ideas @Username especially in the Internet age. Trying to do just gives legitimacy to the outrage his supporters seek.
That isn't a reason to legitimize them to other sections of society by giving them a respected platform, people stupid enough to think that Tommy Robinson is being silenced because he's some sort of victim are beyond help anyway, the evidence against him is overwhelming so supporters of his are either straight out racists, or too stupid to be taught otherwise
Like him or loathe him, he has a legal right (like all of us) to free speech. It is for the police to determine if he has broken the law.
But it’s not about suppressing ideas, it’s about not being seen to ‘promote’ or be associated with such ideas as a society reasonably concludes are unacceptable to that society.
The Epstein analogy @Wendoverman used earlier is a good one in this case. Correctly as a society we now question those around him for their association with someone most people consider unacceptable and abhorrent.
In a sane society (and I remain optimistic we will reach that point) the views and behaviour of Robinson and his cronies will similarly be seen to be unacceptable (if not quite as abhorrent) and to be seen in their company rightly invites questions.
There is a time to debate uncomfortable ideas, there is a time to fight against uncomfortable ideas and there are times, especially in the social media age, to not engage with them and give them the publicity they also seek.
I aim to change the minds of some who support Robinson’s politics while recognising I will not succeed with all. I find that is easier to do if I haven’t thrown insults at them first.
Two points
Josh made a post with an article suggesting that point rather than making the point himself.
Do we know when those photo's were taken?
I used to agree with that view, but I've tried, and seen so many other people try and fail.
Robinsons story is widely known enough now that pleading ignorance isn't really an excuse, and the majority of supposedly "reasonable" supporters of his are in fact just racists once you get to the crux of the matter, and unfortunately those who aren't just arent capable on understanding the nuance required to debunk Robinson's rhetoric...hence why they were convinced in the first place.
I'm sure there are a few others that don't fall into those camps, but my patience has run out and IMO the best way to squash them now is for them to be viewed as socially abhorrent ( as they should be). Noone would bat an eyelid and warn people against insulting nazis, Ronsinsons views arent far off no matter what public image hes trying to portray so I have no qualms calling a racist a racist, or insulting one.