Geraint was obviously too busy writing his important tweets to stop and listen to the Chancellor announce measures similar to many of those he mentioned.
The chancellor announced measures to help businesses and mortgage holders. You asked...
@HCblue said:
I'd be interested to hear the steps that people imagine they would have taken to protect the interests of every single person who is at risk of financial suffering because of this situation.
...and I told you. Which bit of the help for businesses and landlords that the chancellor announced do you think is there to help every single person?
PS. I like you @HCblue, and I’m not trying to have a dig at you with all this, I just can’t quite get my head around why anyone would defend our government’s shoddy response to the biggest crisis facing this country in a generation. We’re two steps behind the rest of the world in everything we do, we’re still ignoring the advice of countries who have been where we are now and the advice of the World Health Organisation.
I can get my head around the idea. Much of the criticism being offered seems either, as in the case of Geraint, factually incorrect or to be based on an ideological distrust (putting it mildly) of the government that leads to an assumption that they're doing everything wrong.
They might be but it's not clear that that is so nor that they are ignoring the best available advice nor that they are consumed by a desire to protect a privileged class at the expense of others.
This is a hugely difficult and unprecedented position and I am somewhat frustrated by the negative assumptions and interpretations apparently being made by those offering strident criticisms.
Making announcements about mortgage payment holidays while not mentioning rent doesn’t look great. I’m not surprised that people interpret it negatively, especially when it comes from a government who have traditionally represented the landlord class rather than the tenants and have very recently implemented policies of austerity.
It is true that the government to date has announced fewer (or more limited) measures than many other countries as Geraint highlighted, and it is perfectly reasonable to question why.
@Chris said:
Making announcements about mortgage payment holidays while not mentioning rent doesn’t look great. I’m not surprised that people interpret it negatively, especially when it comes from a government who have traditionally represented the landlord class rather than the tenants and have very recently implemented policies of austerity.
It is true that the government to date has announced fewer (or more limited) measures than many other countries as Geraint highlighted, and it is perfectly reasonable to question why.
Except that Geraint didn't highlight it. Looking at the timings on his tweets, he wrote his tweets just as/ before the Chancellor was announcing the measures he did which was a whisker after 5pm. He wasn't criticising the measures - he didn't know about them. He was instead criticising the inaction of a government as it announced action in broadly the terms he was saying should be happening. This is my whole point - people like Geraint seem keener to find fault with their perceived enemy than anything else and this seems, less than ever, a good time to be so engaged.
@drcongo said:
The chancellor announced measures to help businesses and mortgage holders. You asked...
@HCblue said:
I'd be interested to hear the steps that people imagine they would have taken to protect the interests of every single person who is at risk of financial suffering because of this situation.
...and I told you. Which bit of the help for businesses and landlords that the chancellor announced do you think is there to help every single person?
PS. I like you @HCblue, and I’m not trying to have a dig at you with all this, I just can’t quite get my head around why anyone would defend our government’s shoddy response to the biggest crisis facing this country in a generation. We’re two steps behind the rest of the world in everything we do, we’re still ignoring the advice of countries who have been where we are now and the advice of the World Health Organisation.
I realise I didn't answer your last question before the PS..
I don't think that the needs of every single person were addressed yesterday. That wasn't my suggestion and I am not sure such a thing would be possible right now. Instead, I meant to ask those who seem to think this is the standard by which every government decision should be judged would provide such help were they in charge.
It seems to me that people like Geraint are just looking out for the poorest in society who are likely, as ever, to be those most affected when things go wrong.
@HCblue said:
I don't think that the needs of every single person were addressed yesterday. That wasn't my suggestion and I am not sure such a thing would be possible right now. Instead, I meant to ask those who seem to think this is the standard by which every government decision should be judged would provide such help were they in charge.
If it's possible in other countries then it's possible here. Or, maybe it would be if we hadn't spent a decade decimating front line public services. I mean, even providing masks for the NHS workers who are risking their lives every day would be a start. As it is, we're doing the very least possible.
I confess I’ve not really had a thorough read of this thread but I’ve seen enough to share the concerns. Is this Josh expressing his own original thoughts, I wonder, or did I see somewhere that what he has written/reproduced has its roots elsewhere. Does all or most of it appear to have been reproduced, plagiarised or transcribed? Whatever the answer, it does sound very worrying.
@HCblue said:
I don't think that the needs of every single person were addressed yesterday. That wasn't my suggestion and I am not sure such a thing would be possible right now. Instead, I meant to ask those who seem to think this is the standard by which every government decision should be judged would provide such help were they in charge.
If it's possible in other countries then it's possible here. Or, maybe it would be if we hadn't spent a decade decimating front line public services. I mean, even providing masks for the NHS workers who are risking their lives every day would be a start. As it is, we're doing the very least possible.
I'll make this my last contribution since I realise it's not directly what the thread is about:
It is not clear that any country is making provision for every single person within it nor that it would be remotely possible to do so. And, re @chris's reply, Geraint was just plain factually incorrect - wrong. He would have been better-served listening to what was being said that spending his time tweeting out-of-date criticism.
I'm taking this whole thing a bit personally. I can't see the company that I've spent the last few years building surviving this and my wife is being sent home without pay. Make the most of the gasroom because it's probably not going to be here much longer.
@drcongo said:
I'm taking this whole thing a bit personally. I can't see the company that I've spent the last few years building surviving this and my wife is being sent home without pay. Make the most of the gasroom because it's probably not going to be here much longer.
I’m really sorry to read about your situation @drcongo I’ve not earnt in 2 weeks as I’m on a zero hours contract at a local school. With schools imminently closing, that could be me done until we come out the other side of this crisis. I agree it’s hard not look to the people who’ve chosen to use their votes to elect the past few administrations and ask them to be accountable.
Hang in there for a few more days and we’ll see what help there is. There are many many people in the same boat and there will be help, even if it’s not yet forthcoming.
Let's hope the help announced is actually practical help that will reach the people who need it and not just a bureaucratic political soundbite with no substance, Remember how flood defences were going to be massively bolstered in 2016...?
What worried me about Brexit was that I had no confidence any of the main cheerleaders (who were of both political stripes) actually had any real conviction, understanding of the implications or coherent plan of action (how anyone asks David Davies about anything anymore still amazes me) and what worries me about the present Cummings government is that they have no real idea what to do, or have any empathy for the effects of what they DO do on the people they 'serve'.
Not meaning to dismiss your personal finances Dr, but I'm sure the rest of the gasroom (who are fortunate enough to be in a position to do so) would jointly fund a way to keep the forum (and your years of work hosting) going.
Indeed @drcongo and everyone else is similar circumstances. I wish you the best of luck. I work in the NHS and my wife is a teacher. Our jobs are stressful right now but every day I am thankful we have them. I can only hope this government does the right thing for you all.
@Manboobs said:
Indeed @drcongo and everyone else is similar circumstances. I wish you the best of luck. I work in the NHS and my wife is a teacher. Our jobs are stressful right now but every day I am thankful we have them. I can only hope this government does the right thing for you all.
Hear, hear. My school shut down at close of play today. I recognise I'm in a relatively comfortable position with less than average threat to 'self and livelihood. I'm very sorry to hear of your position, @drcongo, and hope that the necessary support becomes available to you and all those in difficult positions.
@drcongo said:
I'm taking this whole thing a bit personally. I can't see the company that I've spent the last few years building surviving this and my wife is being sent home without pay. Make the most of the gasroom because it's probably not going to be here much longer.
I know exactly how you feel. If this situation goes in longer than 3 months I'll have no business and no income and all savings used up. Best of luck to you.
Really sorry to hear about the situation you find yourself in @drcongo. My wife and I have long been retired (25 years in my case) and are very fortunate to have half decent pensions. You’ll not be surprised when I say that the Gasroom is an important part of my daily routine and I would miss it very much if you were forced to cease operations.
I know quite a few other Gasroomers personally and there are some that I’ve never met but feel like I do know as a result of reading their contributions and exchanging views with them over the past five years. I was due to meet one or two of the latter exactly 6 months ago next Saturday when, on my birthday of all days, I had to be whisked away in an ambulance half an hour before kickoff! I survived that day and was able to listen to @bluntphil’s commentary in Wycombe Hospital. Thanks to a change of medication (I assume), I have been “episode” free since then.
Finally, and most importantly, I fully endorse @Username’s comment yesterday about supporting whatever it takes to enable you to continue operating this forum. I’m sure many others will be of the same opinion.
Comments
New Zealand gov also paying people $580 p/w in unpaid leave.
Geraint was obviously too busy writing his important tweets to stop and listen to the Chancellor announce measures similar to many of those he mentioned.
The chancellor announced measures to help businesses and mortgage holders. You asked...
...and I told you. Which bit of the help for businesses and landlords that the chancellor announced do you think is there to help every single person?
PS. I like you @HCblue, and I’m not trying to have a dig at you with all this, I just can’t quite get my head around why anyone would defend our government’s shoddy response to the biggest crisis facing this country in a generation. We’re two steps behind the rest of the world in everything we do, we’re still ignoring the advice of countries who have been where we are now and the advice of the World Health Organisation.
The feeling is mutual.
I can get my head around the idea. Much of the criticism being offered seems either, as in the case of Geraint, factually incorrect or to be based on an ideological distrust (putting it mildly) of the government that leads to an assumption that they're doing everything wrong.
They might be but it's not clear that that is so nor that they are ignoring the best available advice nor that they are consumed by a desire to protect a privileged class at the expense of others.
This is a hugely difficult and unprecedented position and I am somewhat frustrated by the negative assumptions and interpretations apparently being made by those offering strident criticisms.
I think we're both applying Occam's Razor differently.
Occam's Razor is in the eye of the beholder.
Making announcements about mortgage payment holidays while not mentioning rent doesn’t look great. I’m not surprised that people interpret it negatively, especially when it comes from a government who have traditionally represented the landlord class rather than the tenants and have very recently implemented policies of austerity.
It is true that the government to date has announced fewer (or more limited) measures than many other countries as Geraint highlighted, and it is perfectly reasonable to question why.
Except that Geraint didn't highlight it. Looking at the timings on his tweets, he wrote his tweets just as/ before the Chancellor was announcing the measures he did which was a whisker after 5pm. He wasn't criticising the measures - he didn't know about them. He was instead criticising the inaction of a government as it announced action in broadly the terms he was saying should be happening. This is my whole point - people like Geraint seem keener to find fault with their perceived enemy than anything else and this seems, less than ever, a good time to be so engaged.
I realise I didn't answer your last question before the PS..
I don't think that the needs of every single person were addressed yesterday. That wasn't my suggestion and I am not sure such a thing would be possible right now. Instead, I meant to ask those who seem to think this is the standard by which every government decision should be judged would provide such help were they in charge.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/17/there-is-a-policy-of-surrender-doctor-on-uks-covid-19-failures
It seems to me that people like Geraint are just looking out for the poorest in society who are likely, as ever, to be those most affected when things go wrong.
The more I dig into Josh Parker's ramblings, the more utterly embarrassing it becomes.
I hope he gets some help as it seems to be bordering on paranoid/delusional and a total breakdown in his ability to analyse sources critically.
If it's possible in other countries then it's possible here. Or, maybe it would be if we hadn't spent a decade decimating front line public services. I mean, even providing masks for the NHS workers who are risking their lives every day would be a start. As it is, we're doing the very least possible.
I confess I’ve not really had a thorough read of this thread but I’ve seen enough to share the concerns. Is this Josh expressing his own original thoughts, I wonder, or did I see somewhere that what he has written/reproduced has its roots elsewhere. Does all or most of it appear to have been reproduced, plagiarised or transcribed? Whatever the answer, it does sound very worrying.
I'll make this my last contribution since I realise it's not directly what the thread is about:
It is not clear that any country is making provision for every single person within it nor that it would be remotely possible to do so. And, re @chris's reply, Geraint was just plain factually incorrect - wrong. He would have been better-served listening to what was being said that spending his time tweeting out-of-date criticism.
It isn’t wrong that more has been done or promised by the governments of other countries.
Succinctly put (as always) @Chris.
I'm taking this whole thing a bit personally. I can't see the company that I've spent the last few years building surviving this and my wife is being sent home without pay. Make the most of the gasroom because it's probably not going to be here much longer.
I’m really sorry to read about your situation @drcongo I’ve not earnt in 2 weeks as I’m on a zero hours contract at a local school. With schools imminently closing, that could be me done until we come out the other side of this crisis. I agree it’s hard not look to the people who’ve chosen to use their votes to elect the past few administrations and ask them to be accountable.
Hang in there for a few more days and we’ll see what help there is. There are many many people in the same boat and there will be help, even if it’s not yet forthcoming.
Let's hope the help announced is actually practical help that will reach the people who need it and not just a bureaucratic political soundbite with no substance, Remember how flood defences were going to be massively bolstered in 2016...?
I try very hard not to blame those who voted for them @Lloyd2084, I have actual friends who voted tory. Not many, obviously, but some.
What worried me about Brexit was that I had no confidence any of the main cheerleaders (who were of both political stripes) actually had any real conviction, understanding of the implications or coherent plan of action (how anyone asks David Davies about anything anymore still amazes me) and what worries me about the present Cummings government is that they have no real idea what to do, or have any empathy for the effects of what they DO do on the people they 'serve'.
Good luck getting through this desperately difficult time @drcongo
@drcongo best wishes for yourselves and your business.
Ditto big man. Thought you were getting quite vociferous, but am glad you explained why!
Not meaning to dismiss your personal finances Dr, but I'm sure the rest of the gasroom (who are fortunate enough to be in a position to do so) would jointly fund a way to keep the forum (and your years of work hosting) going.
Indeed @drcongo and everyone else is similar circumstances. I wish you the best of luck. I work in the NHS and my wife is a teacher. Our jobs are stressful right now but every day I am thankful we have them. I can only hope this government does the right thing for you all.
Hear, hear. My school shut down at close of play today. I recognise I'm in a relatively comfortable position with less than average threat to 'self and livelihood. I'm very sorry to hear of your position, @drcongo, and hope that the necessary support becomes available to you and all those in difficult positions.
I know exactly how you feel. If this situation goes in longer than 3 months I'll have no business and no income and all savings used up. Best of luck to you.
Really sorry to hear about the situation you find yourself in @drcongo. My wife and I have long been retired (25 years in my case) and are very fortunate to have half decent pensions. You’ll not be surprised when I say that the Gasroom is an important part of my daily routine and I would miss it very much if you were forced to cease operations.
I know quite a few other Gasroomers personally and there are some that I’ve never met but feel like I do know as a result of reading their contributions and exchanging views with them over the past five years. I was due to meet one or two of the latter exactly 6 months ago next Saturday when, on my birthday of all days, I had to be whisked away in an ambulance half an hour before kickoff! I survived that day and was able to listen to @bluntphil’s commentary in Wycombe Hospital. Thanks to a change of medication (I assume), I have been “episode” free since then.
Finally, and most importantly, I fully endorse @Username’s comment yesterday about supporting whatever it takes to enable you to continue operating this forum. I’m sure many others will be of the same opinion.