If ever the rows in front of me stand,forcing me to, I always have a look behind to make sure I am not ruining someone's game.
I personally just like to watch the game. I don't like being amongst angry, sweary selfish bastards, but unfortunately we seem to be rife with them at our club.
@Malone I've always found your experience of Wycombe fans completely at odds to my own, I've never gone near the top and the middle of an away end, is that where I'm going right/wrong?
If you're in it for the limbs and getting boozed up pre kick off, i dare say we do indeed have different match day experiences.
@Glenactico said:
To the people saying that it should be mandatory to sit because there are seats, that is simply not true. It is not mandatory to sit and is up to the stadium to decide if sitting down is insisted upon.
It seems pretty selfish to me to sit down in an area where a large number of people wish to stand, and then insist that everyone around you should modify their behaviour so that you can sit in that exact seat. I have sympathy when there are no available seats but on Saturday there were plenty available and people could easily have moved. Likewise, people standing should really have tried to congregate together.
Fans will argue black is white won't they.
Seats..are for sitting.
It's sort of the rule.
Fans breaking it and standing doesn't make it less so.
I'm sure you're being deliberately thick now, some clubs - actually most, allow you to stand in the seats areas at our level , the seats are no more than a space counter/ option. Not since Leeds have I seen anyone kicked out simply for standing.
Peters made it quite clear who he is on here through WWSET fitness posts, immediately assuming he's one of the "youth" in a snarky way just makes you look like a pillock. Not everyone is as arse clenchingly straight laced as you, that doesn't make everyone else a yob.
Hope you and RITM enjoy it up there on your pedestal together, I'm sure the football stadia of the country would be electric with 6000 of you there.
If ever the rows in front of me stand,forcing me to, I always have a look behind to make sure I am not ruining someone's game.
I personally just like to watch the game. I don't like being amongst angry, sweary selfish bastards, but unfortunately we seem to be rife with them at our club.
@Malone I've always found your experience of Wycombe fans completely at odds to my own, I've never gone near the top and the middle of an away end, is that where I'm going right/wrong?
If you're in it for the limbs and getting boozed up pre kick off, i dare say we do indeed have different match day experiences.
@Glenactico said:
To the people saying that it should be mandatory to sit because there are seats, that is simply not true. It is not mandatory to sit and is up to the stadium to decide if sitting down is insisted upon.
It seems pretty selfish to me to sit down in an area where a large number of people wish to stand, and then insist that everyone around you should modify their behaviour so that you can sit in that exact seat. I have sympathy when there are no available seats but on Saturday there were plenty available and people could easily have moved. Likewise, people standing should really have tried to congregate together.
Fans will argue black is white won't they.
Seats..are for sitting.
It's sort of the rule.
Fans breaking it and standing doesn't make it less so.
I'm sure you're being deliberately thick now, some clubs - actually most, allow you to stand in the seats areas at our level , the seats are no more than a space counter/ option. Not since Leeds have I seen anyone kicked out simply for standing.
Peters made it quite clear who he is on here through WWSET fitness posts, immediately assuming he's one of the "youth" in a snarky way just makes you look like a pillock. Not everyone is as arse clenchingly straight laced as you, that doesn't make everyone else a yob.
Hope you and RITM enjoy it up there on your pedestal together, I'm sure the football stadia of the country would be electric with 6000 of you there.
Aggressive stuff.
Not sure who Peters is? And I don't recall anyone mentioned WWSET?!
Did not enjoy losing, but survived the fan experience and I enjoyed my tea in Wagamamas five minutes after leaving the ground. I mean it wasn't a lilliputian Tom Kerridige pie of course...
Don't be a skin flint and buy the mans size in future!
If ever the rows in front of me stand,forcing me to, I always have a look behind to make sure I am not ruining someone's game.
I personally just like to watch the game. I don't like being amongst angry, sweary selfish bastards, but unfortunately we seem to be rife with them at our club.
@Malone I've always found your experience of Wycombe fans completely at odds to my own, I've never gone near the top and the middle of an away end, is that where I'm going right/wrong?
If you're in it for the limbs and getting boozed up pre kick off, i dare say we do indeed have different match day experiences.
@Glenactico said:
To the people saying that it should be mandatory to sit because there are seats, that is simply not true. It is not mandatory to sit and is up to the stadium to decide if sitting down is insisted upon.
It seems pretty selfish to me to sit down in an area where a large number of people wish to stand, and then insist that everyone around you should modify their behaviour so that you can sit in that exact seat. I have sympathy when there are no available seats but on Saturday there were plenty available and people could easily have moved. Likewise, people standing should really have tried to congregate together.
Fans will argue black is white won't they.
Seats..are for sitting.
It's sort of the rule.
Fans breaking it and standing doesn't make it less so.
I'm sure you're being deliberately thick now, some clubs - actually most, allow you to stand in the seats areas at our level , the seats are no more than a space counter/ option. Not since Leeds have I seen anyone kicked out simply for standing.
Peters made it quite clear who he is on here through WWSET fitness posts, immediately assuming he's one of the "youth" in a snarky way just makes you look like a pillock. Not everyone is as arse clenchingly straight laced as you, that doesn't make everyone else a yob.
Hope you and RITM enjoy it up there on your pedestal together, I'm sure the football stadia of the country would be electric with 6000 of you there.
Aggressive stuff.
Not sure who Peters is? And I don't recall anyone mentioned WWSET?!
You've been passive aggressive for a few posts so no need for the fake outrage. You and RITM always seem to be joined at the hip whenever any topic like this comes up, so I'll leave it here as you've made your opinion on anyone remotely associated with "the singers" clear.
If ever the rows in front of me stand,forcing me to, I always have a look behind to make sure I am not ruining someone's game.
I personally just like to watch the game. I don't like being amongst angry, sweary selfish bastards, but unfortunately we seem to be rife with them at our club.
@Malone I've always found your experience of Wycombe fans completely at odds to my own, I've never gone near the top and the middle of an away end, is that where I'm going right/wrong?
If you're in it for the limbs and getting boozed up pre kick off, i dare say we do indeed have different match day experiences.
@Glenactico said:
To the people saying that it should be mandatory to sit because there are seats, that is simply not true. It is not mandatory to sit and is up to the stadium to decide if sitting down is insisted upon.
It seems pretty selfish to me to sit down in an area where a large number of people wish to stand, and then insist that everyone around you should modify their behaviour so that you can sit in that exact seat. I have sympathy when there are no available seats but on Saturday there were plenty available and people could easily have moved. Likewise, people standing should really have tried to congregate together.
Fans will argue black is white won't they.
Seats..are for sitting.
It's sort of the rule.
Fans breaking it and standing doesn't make it less so.
I'm sure you're being deliberately thick now, some clubs - actually most, allow you to stand in the seats areas at our level , the seats are no more than a space counter/ option. Not since Leeds have I seen anyone kicked out simply for standing.
Peters made it quite clear who he is on here through WWSET fitness posts, immediately assuming he's one of the "youth" in a snarky way just makes you look like a pillock. Not everyone is as arse clenchingly straight laced as you, that doesn't make everyone else a yob.
Hope you and RITM enjoy it up there on your pedestal together, I'm sure the football stadia of the country would be electric with 6000 of you there.
Aggressive stuff.
Not sure who Peters is? And I don't recall anyone mentioned WWSET?!
You've been passive aggressive for a few posts so no need for the fake outrage. You and RITM always seem to be joined at the hip whenever any topic like this comes up, so I'll leave it here as you've made your opinion on anyone remotely associated with "the singers" clear.
I think all sides have certainly made their thoughts clear
So yes, happy to move on.
Seats..are for sitting.
It's sort of the rule.
Fans breaking it and standing doesn't make it less so.
You’re wrong. Clubs are responsible for whether or not to enforce mandatory sitting in seated areas. The seat is there but that doesn’t mean you’re obliged to use it unless the stadium rules state that to be the case. Many clubs choose to permit standing in seated areas and make their own ‘rule’ accordingly (as you’re so keen on rules over common sense). In the best example all seater stadia specify particular areas where standing will be tolerated and those where it will not.
I can’t understand why you would be so stubborn as to refuse to allow someone to stand when there were plenty of free seats. Has it occurred to you that people with bad backs, knees etc may find it uncomfortable to sit for two full hours? Or should they suffer so that you don’t have to move back two rows...
For the record the stadium regulations at MK expressly forbid standing during the game or for that matter swapping seats.
Common sense should apply but it is common sense to me that someone having paid for a certain seat has a right to watch the game without obstruction unless he CHOOSES to move to another seat. you may ask him nicely but up to him whether he agrees.
@DevC said:
For the record the stadium regulations at MK expressly forbid standing during the game or for that matter swapping seats.
Common sense should apply but it is common sense to me that someone having paid for a certain seat has a right to watch the game without obstruction unless he CHOOSES to move to another seat. you may ask him nicely but up to him whether he agrees.
I'd agree to an extent if you picked a seat specifically, but you don't.
Therefore if when you enter the stadium you're told allocated seats then surely it's not our choice and again, some felt obliged to put up with this crap?
@EwanHoosaami said:
One problem being that some were told it was allocated seating only. Therefore many fans felt kind of stuck behind a few selfish so & so's.
The stewards have to pay lip service, they're just there to say what they have to to not get in trouble, but I understand the frustration, there's been a few games with conflicting information from stewards about allocated / unallocated seating and it really doesn't help.
Allocated seating just doesn't work at football unfortunately, rightly or wrongly, the best way is to use common sense and be respectful to others, until this thread I thought that all of those preventing that happening were on the standing side...
I get that it would create potential difficulty were a club to express complete indifference to whether or not people stood - not the politically correct attitude quite apart from anything - but the allocated seating, as @username and @EwanHoosaami said, creates extra pressures that might be avoided unless it was strictly necessary to do it that way.
Seats..are for sitting.
It's sort of the rule.
Fans breaking it and standing doesn't make it less so.
You’re wrong. Clubs are responsible for whether or not to enforce mandatory sitting in seated areas. The seat is there but that doesn’t mean you’re obliged to use it unless the stadium rules state that to be the case. Many clubs choose to permit standing in seated areas and make their own ‘rule’ accordingly (as you’re so keen on rules over common sense). In the best example all seater stadia specify particular areas where standing will be tolerated and those where it will not.
I can’t understand why you would be so stubborn as to refuse to allow someone to stand when there were plenty of free seats. Has it occurred to you that people with bad backs, knees etc may find it uncomfortable to sit for two full hours? Or should they suffer so that you don’t have to move back two rows...
I'd imagine the official line at most clubs if asked, would be that standing in seated areas isn't allowed. @Dev above just quoted the MK policy for example. It's probably tied up with health and safety and insurance issues.
Whether they actually enforce it, is a totally different question. They often don't do so, as it's easier for them to do nothing, then put up with a sometimes hostile reaction to the suggestion of sitting.
And just for the record, I didn't affect anyone's decision on what they did at MK either way. I sat where I was ushered by the steward, and stood if I needed to, at times when everyone in front stood. (While making best sure I don't block anyone behind).
If people stood all game, I could handle that, as I'm a tall bloke not "that" old.
It's the kids and older people I feel sorry for in those scenarios.
Out of interest, how did your example people who struggle to sit for so long get to the game? I've often seen ill health etc used as an example for people who can't stand for a game, but not who can't sit?!
Common sense should apply but it is common sense to me that someone having paid for a certain seat has a right to watch the game without obstruction unless he CHOOSES to move to another seat. you may ask him nicely but up to him whether he agrees.
In that situation why would someone refuse to relocate to another seat? There was ample free space in perfectly good seats. To insist that hundreds of people sit down because you don’t want to move a few rows is stubborn, selfish and downright childish.
I'd imagine the official line at most clubs if asked, would be that standing in seated areas isn't allowed. @Dev above just quoted the MK policy for example. It's probably tied up with health and safety and insurance issues.
>
I don’t know for sure but you are probably right that most clubs have their own set of stadium rules demanding seating in seated areas. My point was only that it is not correct to say that there is a blanket rule mandating that seats must be used when they are present. In fact it is up to each club and I know that under Safety Man Stan our own policy in the away end was to permit standing. FSF do a decent job of explaining the details: http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/standing/the-legalities-of-standing
Out of interest, how did your example people who struggle to sit for so long get to the game? I've often seen ill health etc used as an example for people who can't stand for a game, but not who can't sit?!
It really isn’t that hard to grasp. Plenty of people struggle to sit for long periods due to back issues, for example. That’s why offices often have some stand up desks. It is pretty obvious that car seats are significantly more comfortable and have better leg room than the average plastic stadium seat. In my case I have bone spurs on the front of my knees, which is no issue in a car seat but very painful squashed against the back of a plastic seat.
Next time you go to the cinema try standing up to watch the whole film in front of people who are sitting behind you. See how long you last before the other patrons take exception.
Is it really so hard to acknowledge that conventions are different between the cinema and at games of football and to make some allowances for that difference?
@Mr67 said:
Next time you go to the cinema try standing up to watch the whole film in front of people who are sitting behind you. See how long you last before the other patrons take exception.
What a bizarre comparison. You can’t jump around, shout or clap at the cinema either. Should I assume you want those rules to apply at the football as well, or is it just the etiquette with regards standing?
The point is consideration for other people The big clue is the seats.
The point is that you are the one not considering others in your blind following of guidelines that may or may not be enforced at any particular ground.
Who's stopping others enjoying their day to the fullest with their wishes on this thread?
Glad there's a few more voices of reason, thought I was going mad for a while earlier, or had moved into some sort of pedants universe.
@Mr67 said:
Next time you go to the cinema try standing up to watch the whole film in front of people who are sitting behind you. See how long you last before the other patrons take exception.
What a bizarre comparison. You can’t jump around, shout or clap at the cinema either.
You've obviously never been to the pictures in Aylesbury.
I haven't got a problem with those who want to stand en-masse in a seated area, but when there is only three in our whole block, that is a real pee off TBH. Especially as the selfish gits were blocking the view of me, my lad, two senior citizens, a dad with three young kids behind us and a few behind them. So thats three blokes, at a guess in their early twenties, two blocks away from the main standing group, who can't grasp why they were upsetting a dozen or so people behind them. They could almost be described as "entitled millenials". One of them had his mum with him & I could tell she was cringing with embarrassment. Fortunately a few minutes in to the second half they flounced off to join the standing masse behind the goal before the general rage around me became too much.
I was in the rows behind and there were 3 lads standing up and everyone else sitting down around them...front, side and behind. The dad behind asked before kick off if they could move to where the standing crowd was so people behind could see and they wouldn’t move ...selfish?
The onus is on those choosing to stand in seated areas to move to allow others to see, rather than those who are seated in seated areas. On nearly all occasions (at least where there isn’t allocated seating) it should be possible to be resolved sensibly and amicably so that all can sit or stand according to their preference.
Where it is not possible to find a resolution, then those standing should sit, because then everyone can still see.
Don't think anyone has suggested that anyone should stand anywhere.
Apart from Oxford away I doubt think there's a single match where both groups can't be happy with a little bit of common sense on either side- standers go to the back in one main group, sitters don't go to the back and if you happen to be one of the few in the "wrong position" either way round then don't kick up a self important fuss, just move to a better seat to stand /sit.
The stewards at at Fratton park were excellent, they never tried to enforce allocated seating that I saw. When they asked us to sit, we asked if we could move back or swap, we sat (those with people behind us did anyway) , 2 minutes later they returned with a load of elderly and families with children pointing them to our row and the rows in front, and we went a few rows back.
Comments
I'm sure you're being deliberately thick now, some clubs - actually most, allow you to stand in the seats areas at our level , the seats are no more than a space counter/ option. Not since Leeds have I seen anyone kicked out simply for standing.
Peters made it quite clear who he is on here through WWSET fitness posts, immediately assuming he's one of the "youth" in a snarky way just makes you look like a pillock. Not everyone is as arse clenchingly straight laced as you, that doesn't make everyone else a yob.
Hope you and RITM enjoy it up there on your pedestal together, I'm sure the football stadia of the country would be electric with 6000 of you there.
Aggressive stuff.
Not sure who Peters is? And I don't recall anyone mentioned WWSET?!
@Wendoverman said
Don't be a skin flint and buy the mans size in future!
You've been passive aggressive for a few posts so no need for the fake outrage. You and RITM always seem to be joined at the hip whenever any topic like this comes up, so I'll leave it here as you've made your opinion on anyone remotely associated with "the singers" clear.
I think all sides have certainly made their thoughts clear
So yes, happy to move on.
You’re wrong. Clubs are responsible for whether or not to enforce mandatory sitting in seated areas. The seat is there but that doesn’t mean you’re obliged to use it unless the stadium rules state that to be the case. Many clubs choose to permit standing in seated areas and make their own ‘rule’ accordingly (as you’re so keen on rules over common sense). In the best example all seater stadia specify particular areas where standing will be tolerated and those where it will not.
I can’t understand why you would be so stubborn as to refuse to allow someone to stand when there were plenty of free seats. Has it occurred to you that people with bad backs, knees etc may find it uncomfortable to sit for two full hours? Or should they suffer so that you don’t have to move back two rows...
One problem being that some were told it was allocated seating only. Therefore many fans felt kind of stuck behind a few selfish so & so's.
For the record the stadium regulations at MK expressly forbid standing during the game or for that matter swapping seats.
Common sense should apply but it is common sense to me that someone having paid for a certain seat has a right to watch the game without obstruction unless he CHOOSES to move to another seat. you may ask him nicely but up to him whether he agrees.
I'd agree to an extent if you picked a seat specifically, but you don't.
Therefore if when you enter the stadium you're told allocated seats then surely it's not our choice and again, some felt obliged to put up with this crap?
The stewards have to pay lip service, they're just there to say what they have to to not get in trouble, but I understand the frustration, there's been a few games with conflicting information from stewards about allocated / unallocated seating and it really doesn't help.
Allocated seating just doesn't work at football unfortunately, rightly or wrongly, the best way is to use common sense and be respectful to others, until this thread I thought that all of those preventing that happening were on the standing side...
I get that it would create potential difficulty were a club to express complete indifference to whether or not people stood - not the politically correct attitude quite apart from anything - but the allocated seating, as @username and @EwanHoosaami said, creates extra pressures that might be avoided unless it was strictly necessary to do it that way.
I'd imagine the official line at most clubs if asked, would be that standing in seated areas isn't allowed. @Dev above just quoted the MK policy for example. It's probably tied up with health and safety and insurance issues.
Whether they actually enforce it, is a totally different question. They often don't do so, as it's easier for them to do nothing, then put up with a sometimes hostile reaction to the suggestion of sitting.
And just for the record, I didn't affect anyone's decision on what they did at MK either way. I sat where I was ushered by the steward, and stood if I needed to, at times when everyone in front stood. (While making best sure I don't block anyone behind).
If people stood all game, I could handle that, as I'm a tall bloke not "that" old.
It's the kids and older people I feel sorry for in those scenarios.
Out of interest, how did your example people who struggle to sit for so long get to the game? I've often seen ill health etc used as an example for people who can't stand for a game, but not who can't sit?!
@ DevC
In that situation why would someone refuse to relocate to another seat? There was ample free space in perfectly good seats. To insist that hundreds of people sit down because you don’t want to move a few rows is stubborn, selfish and downright childish.
Was Bayo standing at the Superbowl?
Imagine asking him to move...
>
I don’t know for sure but you are probably right that most clubs have their own set of stadium rules demanding seating in seated areas. My point was only that it is not correct to say that there is a blanket rule mandating that seats must be used when they are present. In fact it is up to each club and I know that under Safety Man Stan our own policy in the away end was to permit standing. FSF do a decent job of explaining the details: http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/standing/the-legalities-of-standing
It really isn’t that hard to grasp. Plenty of people struggle to sit for long periods due to back issues, for example. That’s why offices often have some stand up desks. It is pretty obvious that car seats are significantly more comfortable and have better leg room than the average plastic stadium seat. In my case I have bone spurs on the front of my knees, which is no issue in a car seat but very painful squashed against the back of a plastic seat.
Next time you go to the cinema try standing up to watch the whole film in front of people who are sitting behind you. See how long you last before the other patrons take exception.
Is it really so hard to acknowledge that conventions are different between the cinema and at games of football and to make some allowances for that difference?
What a bizarre comparison. You can’t jump around, shout or clap at the cinema either. Should I assume you want those rules to apply at the football as well, or is it just the etiquette with regards standing?
The point is consideration for other people The big clue is the seats.
I > @Mr67 said:
The point is that you are the one not considering others in your blind following of guidelines that may or may not be enforced at any particular ground.
Who's stopping others enjoying their day to the fullest with their wishes on this thread?
Glad there's a few more voices of reason, thought I was going mad for a while earlier, or had moved into some sort of pedants universe.
You've obviously never been to the pictures in Aylesbury.
I haven't got a problem with those who want to stand en-masse in a seated area, but when there is only three in our whole block, that is a real pee off TBH. Especially as the selfish gits were blocking the view of me, my lad, two senior citizens, a dad with three young kids behind us and a few behind them. So thats three blokes, at a guess in their early twenties, two blocks away from the main standing group, who can't grasp why they were upsetting a dozen or so people behind them. They could almost be described as "entitled millenials". One of them had his mum with him & I could tell she was cringing with embarrassment. Fortunately a few minutes in to the second half they flounced off to join the standing masse behind the goal before the general rage around me became too much.
I was in the rows behind and there were 3 lads standing up and everyone else sitting down around them...front, side and behind. The dad behind asked before kick off if they could move to where the standing crowd was so people behind could see and they wouldn’t move ...selfish?
The onus is on those choosing to stand in seated areas to move to allow others to see, rather than those who are seated in seated areas. On nearly all occasions (at least where there isn’t allocated seating) it should be possible to be resolved sensibly and amicably so that all can sit or stand according to their preference.
Where it is not possible to find a resolution, then those standing should sit, because then everyone can still see.
Seems simple enough to me.
Thanks @Chris I was beginning to think I was an outpost of reasonable logic.
Don't think anyone has suggested that anyone should stand anywhere.
Apart from Oxford away I doubt think there's a single match where both groups can't be happy with a little bit of common sense on either side- standers go to the back in one main group, sitters don't go to the back and if you happen to be one of the few in the "wrong position" either way round then don't kick up a self important fuss, just move to a better seat to stand /sit.
Try Fratton Park.
The stewards at at Fratton park were excellent, they never tried to enforce allocated seating that I saw. When they asked us to sit, we asked if we could move back or swap, we sat (those with people behind us did anyway) , 2 minutes later they returned with a load of elderly and families with children pointing them to our row and the rows in front, and we went a few rows back.