@Steve_Peart said:
When asked why both bids were not presented, for members to decide, Trevor said bidding is a very complicated business, best for Board to decide.
This doesn't suggest any movement on seeking help or engaging with Trust members.
It’s obviously been a very busy 24 hours. Sadly , and rather incredibly, nothing has changed regarding the attitude and defensive position from Trevor and the power group. The minority group of trust directors who have aired concerns at various times throughout the process , and have been honourable and acted in good faith when talked around with promises of change and led along by assurances by Trevor of the merits of the American bid , are feeling very let down at present , as we all are .
However, they have the opportunity to stand up and be counted now , they have resisted speaking up previously , but surely their elected position dictates that their personal view point must now be aired such is the ruinous state of or club and the board they belong to?
1310 season tickets have been sold so far, which has helped alleviate some financial pinch points. Early bird discount now extended to end of season. A replacement has been found for Zebra Finance, on the same terms. The big screen seven year contract has now been signed, they were waiting for approval by Bill and Jim. The scoreboards have finally died. Concern expressed that if they are not replaced, there will be no clock as that is not included on the big screen (why can't it be?). Dormeo now have a Wanderers billboard up, next season's sponsors will all be announced together. Not a big take-up of the Kids Box at Pompey game but takes time to catch on and ABM will continue with it. It was pointed out that not all kiosks had a poster up for it.
The last two items produced very heated debate. Some Wycombe 'fans' behaved very badly at the Oxford game, not helped by inaction of the stewards, ruining the enjoyment of many. MD said no formal complaints received but next time we play there, we will sell tickets for a singing section at the back.
At the end of season Players' Awards dinner, players will no longer be sitting on tables with supporters. This has upset many, to the extent that they will not be buying tickets (£60 a throw). There was obvious frustration by some with MD's response to their disappointment.
One other thing, TS said in passing that Bill and Jim did not get all of their investment in Derby back.
@Steve_Peart said:
Tony Sutton pressed Trevor for a Trust members meeting ASAP, so that members can hear what the plan is now, and lessons can be learnt. Trevor agreed a meeting will take place but not that quickly. Tony pressed him again Iater on this.
Isn't Tony also on the board? Have another board member retweeting about the club not responding to Sergio Torres's questions about a showing of his film at the club. Add in Financial position, transfer limitations in January ( no 500 club needed?) and takeover progress, do we really think Trevor should be chair of both boards going forward??
Tony Sutton is not on the Board. Far from it! Go and read the Trust website if you’d like to see the full lineup.
The current trend in society overall for black or white (no shades of grey) and towards the default assumption that anyone in authority must automatically be corrupt, incompetent and working for obscure ulterior motives is deeply sad and potentially very damaging. Sadly Marlow and carrots completely unsubstantiated and to me largely nonsensical slurs appear to have found fertile ground in this environment and Trevor Stroud has become in the collective gasroom mind an enemy working against the interests of the club.
I see the world slightly differently. I see it as perfectly possible to disagree with decisions that are made while respecting that the individual making those decisions has made them in good faith in what he/she considers the best interests of the organisation. We just happen to disagree. I also see it as entirely possible to make decisions based on available evidence at the time, right at the time that subsequent events prove were wrong.
We are now in a mess. As virtually always in a mess, there are a whole range of individual decisions that have come together to create that mess. While I believe the primary responsibility for the mess is elsewhere, I can criticise the trust for some aspects - eg creating the ridiculous high bar for a vote in the first place that has driven some of the subsequent decisions that appear to have got us to where we are now. Most of the decisions they have made though appear to me (based on evidence on the public domain) to have been sensible at the time in a difficult world.
Whatever the past we are where we are. We can now look for scapegoats - justified or not - for the reality of where we are, or we can try to find solutions. It would appear we have a debt payable soon for this years trading loss (say £500k) and a burning issue of how to set a playing budget for next season that we can afford but that makes us even vaguely competitive in whatever league we find ourselves in.
I do wonder if the most significant solution to at least part of this may lie elsewhere and might lie out of our control. Kortney Hause has apparently performed very well for Villa and as I understand it they have an option to buy him in the summer. IF we have a sell-on and IF his current injury is not too bad, we may well have a little windfall to come. IF there is a clause in the option between Wolves and Villa that the fee payable increases if Villa get promoted as is quite common, then it may well be that immediate future prospects for the club will be determined by whether Aston Villa win the playoffs. Up the Villans.............
This is ridiculous how on earth can we let this man continue to run our club. We need an EGM as soon as possible.
To think that he has the right to ignore the members he represents is no better than bloody Dominic Grieve and his reaction to the Beaconsfield constituency ‘Leave’ vote.
To me it means he (Stroud), doesn’t think the Trust members would know what they are talking about.
Stand down Stroud and let us get an EGM sorted.
Totally inept results , and fundamentally corrupt behaviour are hugely different things. I’ve always considered the former to be the case with our current leadership , certainly not the latter.
@Steve_Peart said:
Tony Sutton pressed Trevor for a Trust members meeting ASAP, so that members can hear what the plan is now, and lessons can be learnt. Trevor agreed a meeting will take place but not that quickly. Tony pressed him again Iater on this.
Isn't Tony also on the board? Have another board member retweeting about the club not responding to Sergio Torres's questions about a showing of his film at the club. Add in Financial position, transfer limitations in January ( no 500 club needed?) and takeover progress, do we really think Trevor should be chair of both boards going forward??
Tony Sutton is not on the Board. Far from it! Go and read the Trust website if you’d like to see the full lineup.
Wrong Tony, Apologies to anyone offended, can't imagine why anyone would be.
I think if posters seriously cannot see any difference between Dominic Grieve and Trevor Stroud then we will struggle to resolve matters. Perhaps time to put Brexit comparisons to bed?
Oh @Baldric don’t stick your head in the sand. We have a man in the Chairman role who did not want to involve the Trust in the most important decision the club are likely to take.
Ignore this mess and soon we will have have NO club to discuss at all.
As an aside, I would be honoured to be compared to a man with the integrity and courage of Dominic Grieve. Wish politics had a few more such as him WHATEVER their beliefs.
@drcongo said:
It’s well worth listening to the interview Phil posted earlier. Trev is a little less comfy when asked some questions.
There are some glaring inconsistencies in his answers to what we have been told also . Trevor states we have been speaking to the Americans for nearly 12 months in that interview, but has told us quite clearly its been 2 years.
When little details are so easily false it begs the question how easily larger mistruths are muttered
@DevC said:
As an aside, I would be honoured to be compared to a man with the integrity and courage of Dominic Grieve. Wish politics had a few more such as him WHATEVER their beliefs.
I can't believe it, I agree with Dev!! Better to steer away from the politics and stick with the football (imagine that, on a football forum), but leave our Dominic Grieve out of this, a sterling politician putting his job on the line for the national interests rather than that of an internal orchestrated coup. I'm sure Stroud should be over the moon to have such a comparison.
@Blue_since_1990 - not sticking head in sand, but there will be many who support Grieve but have no time for Stroud and the political comparisons are just a distraction from the Wycombe issues. But then again didn't you express relief in this or another heated debate that there was football to watch. The football in question being the Checkatrade a competition whose underlying philosophy itself threatens the integrity of smaller clubs. Of course on the face of the evidence Stroud should go, but whether now is the time, and who will replace him is another matter. And quite frankly whilst I understand power groups do emerge and pressure others into submission I'm not totally convinced the silent minority on the board should be allowed to escape the collective criticism. You are on the board to put those divergent views not sulk or cower in the corner.
Why can't we just cut the wage bill to what we can afford? We could pay 20 young players £200 per week, an annual sum of £208,000. Surely there are local youngsters who would accept a foot in the game for that.
We might get relegated but if this is what we can afford it is what we should do.
Of course that strategy is too simple but I expect we could afford a bit better, the point is why can't we just stick to what is affordable and accept the consequences of that?
The long term future of that plan is likely to be relegation after relegation, and Adams Park being an expensive and unsuitable ground for the level at which we find ourselves.
I'm also with @WildWestFC. It must be fairly easy to calculate the minimum income the club will receive in a season and set the wage budget accordingly. Play predominantly young players and with luck one or two may develop and be sold on as Exeter have demonstrated.
I realise this may result in relegation, but at least we will still have a club to support.
Are we really at the stage where we are suggesting getting a load of park players in, and enjoying non-league football "just because" it means we have a club? It might be dire right now, but (taking them at face value) the Trust HAVE said there are still interested parties, surely someone is going to be able to put something into the club without us having to deliberately push ourselves down the leagues. There's a difference between "living within our means" and willfully accepting relegations, with all of the financial knock-on effects that would bring.
It's bad, but I'm not entirely sure it's quite that desperate just yet. (puts tin hat on)
While going bust is obviously the absolute nightmare scenario, like @Chris says, and to expand on his point a bit, but if we suffer multiple relegations, the ground goes, and we end up way down the non league pyramid, would it actually be the same club at all?
Roll on saturday, and a bit of light relief in the actual football!
Fingers crossed that one of these mysterious other parties, ends up a better bet than the offers that are now off the table!
The fitness of the Board aside...I for one would not have been happy having us vote on two bids. It is not feasible as a solution and would possibly have caused even more bother and factional disagreement (as a certain other vote has proved)...we DO elect the Board to assess these these things for us so we can watch the football. I'm sure even @marlowchair would agree with that. Whether they were any good at it or not is another matter...
Sadly, perhaps as I have not shared the journey from non-league with you all I'm not sure I would want to be watching £20 a week plasterers or teenagers myself...snowflake I know. As far as I can see except for recent arrivals like Macca and Thompson, GA has largely been forced to turn to young loanees, aging journeyman, or players needing to recover their mojo already. Let's hope the people at the top...or the ones who replace them have learned some lessons and there is someone out there who wants a fun journey and has more money than sense!
i wonder if one of these interested parties is white knight Ivor, riding in on his trusty steed after the collapse of the bid he (allegedly) helped to bring to the table thereby engineering a perceived crisis that only Ivor can save us from.
Comments
It's certainly right up there with the "don't worry about the money" comment.
Taking a colossal loan off people who now have zero interest in our club is a mad position to be in.
This doesn't suggest any movement on seeking help or engaging with Trust members.
It’s obviously been a very busy 24 hours. Sadly , and rather incredibly, nothing has changed regarding the attitude and defensive position from Trevor and the power group. The minority group of trust directors who have aired concerns at various times throughout the process , and have been honourable and acted in good faith when talked around with promises of change and led along by assurances by Trevor of the merits of the American bid , are feeling very let down at present , as we all are .
However, they have the opportunity to stand up and be counted now , they have resisted speaking up previously , but surely their elected position dictates that their personal view point must now be aired such is the ruinous state of or club and the board they belong to?
A few other items discussed at the meeting.
1310 season tickets have been sold so far, which has helped alleviate some financial pinch points. Early bird discount now extended to end of season. A replacement has been found for Zebra Finance, on the same terms. The big screen seven year contract has now been signed, they were waiting for approval by Bill and Jim. The scoreboards have finally died. Concern expressed that if they are not replaced, there will be no clock as that is not included on the big screen (why can't it be?). Dormeo now have a Wanderers billboard up, next season's sponsors will all be announced together. Not a big take-up of the Kids Box at Pompey game but takes time to catch on and ABM will continue with it. It was pointed out that not all kiosks had a poster up for it.
The last two items produced very heated debate. Some Wycombe 'fans' behaved very badly at the Oxford game, not helped by inaction of the stewards, ruining the enjoyment of many. MD said no formal complaints received but next time we play there, we will sell tickets for a singing section at the back.
At the end of season Players' Awards dinner, players will no longer be sitting on tables with supporters. This has upset many, to the extent that they will not be buying tickets (£60 a throw). There was obvious frustration by some with MD's response to their disappointment.
One other thing, TS said in passing that Bill and Jim did not get all of their investment in Derby back.
Tony Sutton is not on the Board. Far from it! Go and read the Trust website if you’d like to see the full lineup.
The current trend in society overall for black or white (no shades of grey) and towards the default assumption that anyone in authority must automatically be corrupt, incompetent and working for obscure ulterior motives is deeply sad and potentially very damaging. Sadly Marlow and carrots completely unsubstantiated and to me largely nonsensical slurs appear to have found fertile ground in this environment and Trevor Stroud has become in the collective gasroom mind an enemy working against the interests of the club.
I see the world slightly differently. I see it as perfectly possible to disagree with decisions that are made while respecting that the individual making those decisions has made them in good faith in what he/she considers the best interests of the organisation. We just happen to disagree. I also see it as entirely possible to make decisions based on available evidence at the time, right at the time that subsequent events prove were wrong.
We are now in a mess. As virtually always in a mess, there are a whole range of individual decisions that have come together to create that mess. While I believe the primary responsibility for the mess is elsewhere, I can criticise the trust for some aspects - eg creating the ridiculous high bar for a vote in the first place that has driven some of the subsequent decisions that appear to have got us to where we are now. Most of the decisions they have made though appear to me (based on evidence on the public domain) to have been sensible at the time in a difficult world.
Whatever the past we are where we are. We can now look for scapegoats - justified or not - for the reality of where we are, or we can try to find solutions. It would appear we have a debt payable soon for this years trading loss (say £500k) and a burning issue of how to set a playing budget for next season that we can afford but that makes us even vaguely competitive in whatever league we find ourselves in.
I do wonder if the most significant solution to at least part of this may lie elsewhere and might lie out of our control. Kortney Hause has apparently performed very well for Villa and as I understand it they have an option to buy him in the summer. IF we have a sell-on and IF his current injury is not too bad, we may well have a little windfall to come. IF there is a clause in the option between Wolves and Villa that the fee payable increases if Villa get promoted as is quite common, then it may well be that immediate future prospects for the club will be determined by whether Aston Villa win the playoffs. Up the Villans.............
This is ridiculous how on earth can we let this man continue to run our club. We need an EGM as soon as possible.
To think that he has the right to ignore the members he represents is no better than bloody Dominic Grieve and his reaction to the Beaconsfield constituency ‘Leave’ vote.
To me it means he (Stroud), doesn’t think the Trust members would know what they are talking about.
Stand down Stroud and let us get an EGM sorted.
Do the Trust rules allow for members to call an EGM?
Totally inept results , and fundamentally corrupt behaviour are hugely different things. I’ve always considered the former to be the case with our current leadership , certainly not the latter.
Wrong Tony, Apologies to anyone offended, can't imagine why anyone would be.
I think if posters seriously cannot see any difference between Dominic Grieve and Trevor Stroud then we will struggle to resolve matters. Perhaps time to put Brexit comparisons to bed?
Oh @Baldric don’t stick your head in the sand. We have a man in the Chairman role who did not want to involve the Trust in the most important decision the club are likely to take.
Ignore this mess and soon we will have have NO club to discuss at all.
It’s well worth listening to the interview Phil posted earlier. Trev is a little less comfy when asked some questions.
As an aside, I would be honoured to be compared to a man with the integrity and courage of Dominic Grieve. Wish politics had a few more such as him WHATEVER their beliefs.
There are some glaring inconsistencies in his answers to what we have been told also . Trevor states we have been speaking to the Americans for nearly 12 months in that interview, but has told us quite clearly its been 2 years.
When little details are so easily false it begs the question how easily larger mistruths are muttered
I can't believe it, I agree with Dev!! Better to steer away from the politics and stick with the football (imagine that, on a football forum), but leave our Dominic Grieve out of this, a sterling politician putting his job on the line for the national interests rather than that of an internal orchestrated coup. I'm sure Stroud should be over the moon to have such a comparison.
@Blue_since_1990 - not sticking head in sand, but there will be many who support Grieve but have no time for Stroud and the political comparisons are just a distraction from the Wycombe issues. But then again didn't you express relief in this or another heated debate that there was football to watch. The football in question being the Checkatrade a competition whose underlying philosophy itself threatens the integrity of smaller clubs. Of course on the face of the evidence Stroud should go, but whether now is the time, and who will replace him is another matter. And quite frankly whilst I understand power groups do emerge and pressure others into submission I'm not totally convinced the silent minority on the board should be allowed to escape the collective criticism. You are on the board to put those divergent views not sulk or cower in the corner.
Why can't we just cut the wage bill to what we can afford? We could pay 20 young players £200 per week, an annual sum of £208,000. Surely there are local youngsters who would accept a foot in the game for that.
We might get relegated but if this is what we can afford it is what we should do.
Simple strategy @WildWestFC.
But I dare say "might" be relegated would actually be "certain" relegation, and back to back too.
Of course that strategy is too simple but I expect we could afford a bit better, the point is why can't we just stick to what is affordable and accept the consequences of that?
I'm broadly with @WildWestFC on this.
The long term future of that plan is likely to be relegation after relegation, and Adams Park being an expensive and unsuitable ground for the level at which we find ourselves.
I'm also with @WildWestFC. It must be fairly easy to calculate the minimum income the club will receive in a season and set the wage budget accordingly. Play predominantly young players and with luck one or two may develop and be sold on as Exeter have demonstrated.
I realise this may result in relegation, but at least we will still have a club to support.
Are we really at the stage where we are suggesting getting a load of park players in, and enjoying non-league football "just because" it means we have a club? It might be dire right now, but (taking them at face value) the Trust HAVE said there are still interested parties, surely someone is going to be able to put something into the club without us having to deliberately push ourselves down the leagues. There's a difference between "living within our means" and willfully accepting relegations, with all of the financial knock-on effects that would bring.
It's bad, but I'm not entirely sure it's quite that desperate just yet. (puts tin hat on)
While going bust is obviously the absolute nightmare scenario, like @Chris says, and to expand on his point a bit, but if we suffer multiple relegations, the ground goes, and we end up way down the non league pyramid, would it actually be the same club at all?
Roll on saturday, and a bit of light relief in the actual football!
Fingers crossed that one of these mysterious other parties, ends up a better bet than the offers that are now off the table!
We are a League club and it has to stay that way.
The fitness of the Board aside...I for one would not have been happy having us vote on two bids. It is not feasible as a solution and would possibly have caused even more bother and factional disagreement (as a certain other vote has proved)...we DO elect the Board to assess these these things for us so we can watch the football. I'm sure even @marlowchair would agree with that. Whether they were any good at it or not is another matter...
Sadly, perhaps as I have not shared the journey from non-league with you all I'm not sure I would want to be watching £20 a week plasterers or teenagers myself...snowflake I know. As far as I can see except for recent arrivals like Macca and Thompson, GA has largely been forced to turn to young loanees, aging journeyman, or players needing to recover their mojo already. Let's hope the people at the top...or the ones who replace them have learned some lessons and there is someone out there who wants a fun journey and has more money than sense!
i wonder if one of these interested parties is white knight Ivor, riding in on his trusty steed after the collapse of the bid he (allegedly) helped to bring to the table thereby engineering a perceived crisis that only Ivor can save us from.
Like when he saved the training ground for us.