What I really don't get is why we are giving our own managers and players such abuse during the game. I've been following WWFC for more years than I can remember and yes, if someone had a bad game the crowd (or elements within it) would get on the players back but I can't ever recall it from the start of a game until very recently
Well, it's been a busy evening and early morning hasn't it? Welcome @NorthernBranch nice to get a wordsmith from up by the wall joining in for the first time in the early hours, obviously this subject has tweaked some noses. @realDonaldTrump gets to the nub of the fake news as ever thanks Mr President. I use a Username as this is a bit of fun and, that terrible word, 'banter' but if instead of writing @bigred87 you are wrong, I wrote 'you are wrong you ****ing gypsy ****' he would have every right to demand some redress. If the people 'who pay my wages' called me a 'gypo' in my place of work and repeated it on social media I would now be living off the compo in a nice house in Dorset and posting from a distance a la @DevC . I admit I got vital rmatch reviewer @clifty04 mixed up with the nose ketchup fellow but in all the confusion about names and usernames and cyber bullying, I was simply asking, as I believe gypo to be a racial slur and one that should not have been directed at our manager, was he one of the people who were shouting that at Vale and how does he justify it?
I'm obviously old school as I don't see the benefit to the team or club in abusing the players or manager at anytime. Perhaps Clifty or any of the "firm" could educate me?
Shame just three league games into the season to have read two threads after matches already reflecting abuse of players and conflict between supporters. It doesnt bode well
The club (and the trust) had an opportunity after the Pierre incident to lay down publicly behaviour standards for supporters. its silence has been deafening. Presumably they feel that behaviour so far in general remains the right side of the line.
Vital continues to offer a name criticised here an outlet. They are presumably comfortable with his behaviour and twitter comments too.
It all feels like things are brewing towards a very unpleasant conclusion that could seriously damage the club. But then maybe I am reading too many internet forums.
I don't know what's more delicious, Dev saying "hard to judge from afar", from the absolute King of being the "definitive" opinion on everything...from afar, or Clift both saying something is not helpful and to delete it, and about a comment directly to a player, his calling card from last year!
What is quite off putting from our little "vocal gang" behind the goal, is their seeming desire to destroy what they supposedly love - the club.
From the drinking at the Hour Glass to stop us getting profits in our bar, to the increasing desire to be known as some sort of "firm", leading to numbers of ejections and bans increasing, or growing "abuse your own" situation. From Pierre outside Tesco last year, to for some reason abusing our own manager with the worst away fans throw at him, to implied threats of "come and talk to us" to anyone who dares to even look at their ranting antics at games.
Write to the club if you feel strongly. With enough letters, they will take an interest.
I think twice about taking my kids away now which is a real shame.
It was Burton a few years ago which stopped me taking my little girl away any more. The sustained hate and intimidation in the chants at Beavon was just plain nasty. Bad language is part of life whether we like it or not, and I certainly use through some choice phrases at the likes of Ken McKenna and Roy McDoughnut. There was genuinely some humour and pantomime about those chants though whereas I'm not going to condone the spite and hatred to my children by letting them see the current mob go unchallenged. The race stuff just is a no no under any circumstances. It would be bad enough aimed at the opposition, but who works better at their job with someone taunting them 24/7? How can it be helping the team?
Thankfully the Family Stand is still a welcoming place at AP.
@floyd - If a customer came in and called me a Gypo and repeated it in writing, I would expect my Employer (i.e the Trust Board) to ban the customer for racist conduct. Clearly you are one of the old school and consider this harmless banter!
While I unreservedly agree with your point, @mooneyman, I would like to extend your point to challenge of the propriety of foul-mouthed abuse at any person while at a football match, whether they be on the home team or not. The issue here is not that these words are being directed at our manager: it is that they are being used at all.
Somehow, I have managed to enjoy, or not, spectating at sports events for some years without feeling compelled to swear at anyone. This seems to me to be the norm and I respectfully disagree with @Lloyd2084, above, when he lightheartedly refers to his own use of "choice phrases". I understand the difference between light-hearted, humourous utterances and the spiteful abuse from George Stokes that I saw at Port Vale. As I said, I stand against it strongly, to the point where I am considering going with Lloyd's advice and writing to the club about it. But might we speak with a little more conviction, and be less reliant on nuance to complain about what we see as distasteful behaviour, if we made it our policy to avoid coarse language in public in any circumstances?
Truthfully, when I hear players like Rhead of Lincoln going off to a chorus of abuse from the people around me on the terrace as was the case two weeks ago, I identify less rather than more strongly with the club and am less rather than more likely to be proud to say that I am a supporter of the team. I wonder if anyone could justify the opposite view to themselves. We claim the honour of being a welcoming, family club. There is more we could do to justify the tag. That said, and for the reasons above, I wish to reiterate: @clifty04 - your choice of language was about as awful as it could be and wholly without justification.
@mooneyman You could not be more wrong I'm afraid. if you'd spent more than 30 seconds looking at my posts on this thread you'd see that i think there is no place for this sort of behavior in public life. Anyone who says the sort of things that @clifty04 and his mates has been saying and tweeting over the last couple of weeks doesn't deserve to support our club.
Have you contracted the club and the Trust regarding their behavior? I'm not sure we have a social media policy concerning the conduct of our supporters, so at this point there's very little they can do sadly. Even if it happens in the ground it takes an underpaid and probably under-motivated steward to do something about.
As a final point of order i think it's the club and not the Trust who issue banning orders, but i'm happy to stand corrected.
@HCblue , booing a dirty player isn't that much of a disgrace is it? Not compared to some of the stuff going on!
Come on, take that sort of thing out, and it won't even be a football game!
There's nothing wrong with a bit of healthy swearing at rotund thuggish league two forwards or poor passes to clear the lungs. Abuse bordering on racial not so much. Glad the tweets have been deleted...which suggests they could not really be defended. Social media users of an angry nature should always beware before they hit send. There are lost jobs and possibly appointments with the beak waiting for the unwise!
That's opinion @HCblue.
I don't think any of us would have said Bayo was a dirty player even before signing for us. A "comedy" footballer maybe, we might have wrongly thought, but he's not particularly aggressive for his monumental strength.
While Rhead doesn't enter the Ellison stakes, I can imagine he'll get the same at all grounds
And, in a nutshell, @malone, you highlight exactly the point I was making. What kind of people are they that are happy to chant "you fat bastard" at an opposition player simply because he puts himself about, runs into people from time to time by virtue of his commitment and strength and tries hard, within obvious limitations, to give his best for his team?
It's the obligatory fan shout at more muscular players isn't it?
How many times did we hear Wood or Morias labelled as "fat" or "out of shape", when truth be told they'd be ripped beyond belief.
Carrying too much muscle, that's another thing.
@HCblue people have sworn and shouted abuse at players pretty much from the 1960s onwards...be nice if we went back to fans mixing on terraces, wooden rattles, sharing woodbines and chatting to the players on the bus home...but I preferred vinyl to CD and where did that get me? I even said 'For ****'s sake' out loud when the own goal went in. I'm not proud. You're never going to stop it...I thought it was all part and parcel of putting off the opposition...and some DD Dylton and Ellison, for example, thrive on it...but it would be nice if it wasn't racist. That was all I was pointing out.
Comments
What I really don't get is why we are giving our own managers and players such abuse during the game. I've been following WWFC for more years than I can remember and yes, if someone had a bad game the crowd (or elements within it) would get on the players back but I can't ever recall it from the start of a game until very recently
Well, it's been a busy evening and early morning hasn't it? Welcome @NorthernBranch nice to get a wordsmith from up by the wall joining in for the first time in the early hours, obviously this subject has tweaked some noses. @realDonaldTrump gets to the nub of the fake news as ever thanks Mr President. I use a Username as this is a bit of fun and, that terrible word, 'banter' but if instead of writing @bigred87 you are wrong, I wrote 'you are wrong you ****ing gypsy ****' he would have every right to demand some redress. If the people 'who pay my wages' called me a 'gypo' in my place of work and repeated it on social media I would now be living off the compo in a nice house in Dorset and posting from a distance a la @DevC . I admit I got vital rmatch reviewer @clifty04 mixed up with the nose ketchup fellow but in all the confusion about names and usernames and cyber bullying, I was simply asking, as I believe gypo to be a racial slur and one that should not have been directed at our manager, was he one of the people who were shouting that at Vale and how does he justify it?
sadly not @bookertease, but I wish it had been.
I'm obviously old school as I don't see the benefit to the team or club in abusing the players or manager at anytime. Perhaps Clifty or any of the "firm" could educate me?
Hard to judge this from afar.
Shame just three league games into the season to have read two threads after matches already reflecting abuse of players and conflict between supporters. It doesnt bode well
The club (and the trust) had an opportunity after the Pierre incident to lay down publicly behaviour standards for supporters. its silence has been deafening. Presumably they feel that behaviour so far in general remains the right side of the line.
Vital continues to offer a name criticised here an outlet. They are presumably comfortable with his behaviour and twitter comments too.
It all feels like things are brewing towards a very unpleasant conclusion that could seriously damage the club. But then maybe I am reading too many internet forums.
"Hard to judge this from afar."
Ah, such sweet irony.
Ah, such sweet irony.
I don't know what's more delicious, Dev saying "hard to judge from afar", from the absolute King of being the "definitive" opinion on everything...from afar, or Clift both saying something is not helpful and to delete it, and about a comment directly to a player, his calling card from last year!
What is quite off putting from our little "vocal gang" behind the goal, is their seeming desire to destroy what they supposedly love - the club.
From the drinking at the Hour Glass to stop us getting profits in our bar, to the increasing desire to be known as some sort of "firm", leading to numbers of ejections and bans increasing, or growing "abuse your own" situation. From Pierre outside Tesco last year, to for some reason abusing our own manager with the worst away fans throw at him, to implied threats of "come and talk to us" to anyone who dares to even look at their ranting antics at games.
I'll stop there before wycombelad gets excited.
What annoys me the most is that the Trust Board haven't the balls to do anything about this behaviour.
What do you expect the Trust to do about it @mooneyman?
The twitter n facebook group stuff they can't really do anything about.
But maybe they could make the club aware we have a particularly unpleasant little gang of louts making it a less pleasant experience?
(Is one take on it)
Write to the club if you feel strongly. With enough letters, they will take an interest.
I think twice about taking my kids away now which is a real shame.
It was Burton a few years ago which stopped me taking my little girl away any more. The sustained hate and intimidation in the chants at Beavon was just plain nasty. Bad language is part of life whether we like it or not, and I certainly use through some choice phrases at the likes of Ken McKenna and Roy McDoughnut. There was genuinely some humour and pantomime about those chants though whereas I'm not going to condone the spite and hatred to my children by letting them see the current mob go unchallenged. The race stuff just is a no no under any circumstances. It would be bad enough aimed at the opposition, but who works better at their job with someone taunting them 24/7? How can it be helping the team?
Thankfully the Family Stand is still a welcoming place at AP.
@floyd - If a customer came in and called me a Gypo and repeated it in writing, I would expect my Employer (i.e the Trust Board) to ban the customer for racist conduct. Clearly you are one of the old school and consider this harmless banter!
While I unreservedly agree with your point, @mooneyman, I would like to extend your point to challenge of the propriety of foul-mouthed abuse at any person while at a football match, whether they be on the home team or not. The issue here is not that these words are being directed at our manager: it is that they are being used at all.
Somehow, I have managed to enjoy, or not, spectating at sports events for some years without feeling compelled to swear at anyone. This seems to me to be the norm and I respectfully disagree with @Lloyd2084, above, when he lightheartedly refers to his own use of "choice phrases". I understand the difference between light-hearted, humourous utterances and the spiteful abuse from George Stokes that I saw at Port Vale. As I said, I stand against it strongly, to the point where I am considering going with Lloyd's advice and writing to the club about it. But might we speak with a little more conviction, and be less reliant on nuance to complain about what we see as distasteful behaviour, if we made it our policy to avoid coarse language in public in any circumstances?
Truthfully, when I hear players like Rhead of Lincoln going off to a chorus of abuse from the people around me on the terrace as was the case two weeks ago, I identify less rather than more strongly with the club and am less rather than more likely to be proud to say that I am a supporter of the team. I wonder if anyone could justify the opposite view to themselves. We claim the honour of being a welcoming, family club. There is more we could do to justify the tag. That said, and for the reasons above, I wish to reiterate: @clifty04 - your choice of language was about as awful as it could be and wholly without justification.
@mooneyman You could not be more wrong I'm afraid. if you'd spent more than 30 seconds looking at my posts on this thread you'd see that i think there is no place for this sort of behavior in public life. Anyone who says the sort of things that @clifty04 and his mates has been saying and tweeting over the last couple of weeks doesn't deserve to support our club.
Have you contracted the club and the Trust regarding their behavior? I'm not sure we have a social media policy concerning the conduct of our supporters, so at this point there's very little they can do sadly. Even if it happens in the ground it takes an underpaid and probably under-motivated steward to do something about.
As a final point of order i think it's the club and not the Trust who issue banning orders, but i'm happy to stand corrected.
You did see McKenna play right?
Bah, typing on a iPhone has been my undoing again.
Pleased to see that Adam has deleted those tweets.
@HCblue , booing a dirty player isn't that much of a disgrace is it? Not compared to some of the stuff going on!
Come on, take that sort of thing out, and it won't even be a football game!
There's nothing wrong with a bit of healthy swearing at rotund thuggish league two forwards or poor passes to clear the lungs. Abuse bordering on racial not so much. Glad the tweets have been deleted...which suggests they could not really be defended. Social media users of an angry nature should always beware before they hit send. There are lost jobs and possibly appointments with the beak waiting for the unwise!
Glad to hear the tweets have been deleted. Lessons learnt hopefully.
@malone. He wasn't dirty any more than Bayo is. And it was more than booing.
That's opinion @HCblue.
I don't think any of us would have said Bayo was a dirty player even before signing for us. A "comedy" footballer maybe, we might have wrongly thought, but he's not particularly aggressive for his monumental strength.
While Rhead doesn't enter the Ellison stakes, I can imagine he'll get the same at all grounds
And, in a nutshell, @malone, you highlight exactly the point I was making. What kind of people are they that are happy to chant "you fat bastard" at an opposition player simply because he puts himself about, runs into people from time to time by virtue of his commitment and strength and tries hard, within obvious limitations, to give his best for his team?
It's the obligatory fan shout at more muscular players isn't it?
How many times did we hear Wood or Morias labelled as "fat" or "out of shape", when truth be told they'd be ripped beyond belief.
Carrying too much muscle, that's another thing.
@HCblue people have sworn and shouted abuse at players pretty much from the 1960s onwards...be nice if we went back to fans mixing on terraces, wooden rattles, sharing woodbines and chatting to the players on the bus home...but I preferred vinyl to CD and where did that get me? I even said 'For ****'s sake' out loud when the own goal went in. I'm not proud. You're never going to stop it...I thought it was all part and parcel of putting off the opposition...and some DD Dylton and Ellison, for example, thrive on it...but it would be nice if it wasn't racist. That was all I was pointing out.