@Right_in_the_Middle Nothing like a sweeping generalisation? So we have a circa 17 million voters that are insular and uneducated in a nation that has been one of the most multicultural in the world. DO!
@drcongo said:
I don't see anything wrong with DevC's post, it's far more than a media issue, as is pretty easy to verify on social media from fans in France. The only inaccuracy was the future tense in "We are becoming a horrible intolerant xenophobic people." - we have already become that, as Thursday proved.
This thread seems to have veered away from the football (which is sad).
I rarely take issue with anything apart from misuse/uglification (horrible word!) of our wonderful English language and political issues are not normally for me but I do feel very strongly that the sheer number of immigrants coming in to the country in recent years has been what persuaded so many people to gamble (and that's really all it seems to have been) that some sort of control over the numbers was more likely to be achieved if we left the EU.
Wanting something to be done to reduce the numbers in no way equates to being "horrible, intolerant or xenophobic ".
The tense used by @DevC is 'present progressive' not future.
@EwanHoosaami Two sweeping generalisations now as I wasn't talking purely about those who voted Leave. I think there are plenty of insular and uneducated people who voted Remain, spoiled their ballots or didn't vote at all.
If you honestly think you had the information you needed to make an informed decision last week then you are a better person than most of us. I was uneducated on it and I blame the media and the politicians for that. We are becoming more like America every week and that is more worrying to me than leaving Europe.
That's a good as argument as any for relying on the system of representative democracy and not having any more referenda again.
But people will never have perfect information when making any decision. I certainly made a informed decision when voting remain last week, but I couldn't possibly know the consequences of the vote either way with certainty. That's life.
What happens when we leave the EU and things get worse not better is concerning.
...I couldn't possibly know the consequences of the vote either way with certainty.
Bit of a contradiction there, Chris!
@sandsexile The clue is in your question isn't it? Those people, like me, would have voted to remain.
Sure, some leave voters are racists, and some are bigots, but by no means all. Political discourse would be immediately improved if we didn't naturally assume the moral high ground over people we disagreed with.
Trying to find positives:
The young voted to Remain and are more relaxed about multi-culturism and embracing the wider world.
Our politicians may not be able to ignore the forgotten communities and may start to realise that austerity has hit those who could least afford it.
Eorope's politicians may realise that the EU needs to be more flexible and forward-thinking
Boris has shot himself spectacularly in the foot
And the Labour Party comedy show has hit new heights (or sunk to new lows)
Pity we won't have any money left in this country to do anything about it
@bookertease 75% of 18-24 year olds who voted voted to Remain. Only 36% of the eligible voters in that category voted though. This more relaxed attitude hasn't given them a true voice. I can't see how nearly two thirds of young voters not bothering to vote as a positive. It is a massive reflection how much they listen to or trust politicians.
It's going to run and run folks. Dave got us into this ridiculous situation and as his parting shot is leaving Boris to actually trigger the exit...which the LEAVERS will have to do and then face the consequences. Boris - who was looking to up his profile and I believe did not expect LEAVE to win - won't be able to dilly-dally he'll HAVE to trigger Article 50 or he'll look like an opportunistic liar. I'm not sure the silly old blonde bombshell is used to having to deal with much more than people asking him for a selfie...so he looked very uncomfortable with the booing and heckling the other day. He's also going to face the wrath of the 48% of all political colours (and 73% of MPs) who voted to stay and possibly numbers of Leavers who might suddenly realise that they've made a terrible error...or that he cannot actually deliver on the migration issue that they were so concerned about in the first place. He might regret tying himself to Farage's wagon and that £350 million bus ruse. Going to be great fun for news channels...not so much for the rest of us. Unless of course the Brexiteers are all right and we move into a period of sustained growth, wealth and opportunity...the ultimate fan owned club with a Chairman you're not sure knows what he is doing.
@floyd said:
sandsexile I voted for the UK to have a voice in reforming the EU.
Indeed.
The most frustrating thing is the amount of people I've come across with buyer's remorse. 'We didn't really think Leave would win.' Yes, well that's what you get for listening to the ramblings of a power mad egomaniac who's been sacked twice for lying in his professional work.
Race relations have been set back a few decades as the real racists feel mandated by the result. The disgraceful attacks on Poles this weekend is only the tip of the iceberg.
When the negotiations fail it will of course be the fault of those damn pesky EU bureaucrats hating us Brits.
@ Right_in_the_Middle thanks for that! I do appreciate I'm clutching at straws. But must admit I hadn't realised the turnout for that age was so low. So that will teach them
What this tournament has shown that the Premier League stiffs absolutely MUST play every week against the likes of Barnet and Col U, otherwise England will win feck all (apart from maybe the Football League Trophy)
@bill_stickers Actually it reminded me of last season's Wycombe. Predictable and totally ineffective in the final third. Did the Icelandic keep have a save to make in the second half?
The utter shambles of this whole tournament (we won one game against Wales after all) will leave the likes of Dyke and Davis looking for fault and reason and excuses. How the fack they will conclude the problem lies within the Football League structure is beyond me but that is what they will conclude.
If you pay someone like Sterling £250k a week he will believe he is the equal of David Silva etc when he is not. Same goes for most of the dross out there last night. The problem is not with technical development it is with mental development and these players are so deluded in their life outlook it can never be cured. The genie is out of the bottle as they say.
Wayne Rooney trying to defend anything in his interview last night was just the icing on the cake for me. He has not a clue as he is surrounded by people who are still prepared to tell him that what they did last night was acceptable.
Today I will be listening to The Sugar Cubes and Sigur Ros as a mark of respect to a team that cared beyond their ability. Well done sirs, may your kæstur hákarl taste more rotten than ever.
Comments
I think the venn diagram of 'horrible intolerant xenophobic people' with 'insular and uneducated people' is pretty much a circle.
It's a genuinely terrifying prospect. There's always a scapegoat.
@Right_in_the_Middle Nothing like a sweeping generalisation? So we have a circa 17 million voters that are insular and uneducated in a nation that has been one of the most multicultural in the world. DO!
This thread seems to have veered away from the football (which is sad).
I rarely take issue with anything apart from misuse/uglification (horrible word!) of our wonderful English language and political issues are not normally for me but I do feel very strongly that the sheer number of immigrants coming in to the country in recent years has been what persuaded so many people to gamble (and that's really all it seems to have been) that some sort of control over the numbers was more likely to be achieved if we left the EU.
Wanting something to be done to reduce the numbers in no way equates to being "horrible, intolerant or xenophobic ".
The tense used by @DevC is 'present progressive' not future.
@EwanHoosaami Two sweeping generalisations now as I wasn't talking purely about those who voted Leave. I think there are plenty of insular and uneducated people who voted Remain, spoiled their ballots or didn't vote at all.
If you honestly think you had the information you needed to make an informed decision last week then you are a better person than most of us. I was uneducated on it and I blame the media and the politicians for that. We are becoming more like America every week and that is more worrying to me than leaving Europe.
That's a good as argument as any for relying on the system of representative democracy and not having any more referenda again.
But people will never have perfect information when making any decision. I certainly made a informed decision when voting remain last week, but I couldn't possibly know the consequences of the vote either way with certainty. That's life.
What happens when we leave the EU and things get worse not better is concerning.
...I couldn't possibly know the consequences of the vote either way with certainty.
Bit of a contradiction there, Chris!
I'd be delighted if things get better not worse, but it seems pretty damn unlikely.
@sandsexile The clue is in your question isn't it? Those people, like me, would have voted to remain.
Sure, some leave voters are racists, and some are bigots, but by no means all. Political discourse would be immediately improved if we didn't naturally assume the moral high ground over people we disagreed with.
Trying to find positives:
The young voted to Remain and are more relaxed about multi-culturism and embracing the wider world.
Our politicians may not be able to ignore the forgotten communities and may start to realise that austerity has hit those who could least afford it.
Eorope's politicians may realise that the EU needs to be more flexible and forward-thinking
Boris has shot himself spectacularly in the foot
And the Labour Party comedy show has hit new heights (or sunk to new lows)
Pity we won't have any money left in this country to do anything about it
@bookertease 75% of 18-24 year olds who voted voted to Remain. Only 36% of the eligible voters in that category voted though. This more relaxed attitude hasn't given them a true voice. I can't see how nearly two thirds of young voters not bothering to vote as a positive. It is a massive reflection how much they listen to or trust politicians.
@sandsexile I voted for the UK to have a voice in reforming the EU.
I agree with @floyd
It's going to run and run folks. Dave got us into this ridiculous situation and as his parting shot is leaving Boris to actually trigger the exit...which the LEAVERS will have to do and then face the consequences. Boris - who was looking to up his profile and I believe did not expect LEAVE to win - won't be able to dilly-dally he'll HAVE to trigger Article 50 or he'll look like an opportunistic liar. I'm not sure the silly old blonde bombshell is used to having to deal with much more than people asking him for a selfie...so he looked very uncomfortable with the booing and heckling the other day. He's also going to face the wrath of the 48% of all political colours (and 73% of MPs) who voted to stay and possibly numbers of Leavers who might suddenly realise that they've made a terrible error...or that he cannot actually deliver on the migration issue that they were so concerned about in the first place. He might regret tying himself to Farage's wagon and that £350 million bus ruse. Going to be great fun for news channels...not so much for the rest of us. Unless of course the Brexiteers are all right and we move into a period of sustained growth, wealth and opportunity...the ultimate fan owned club with a Chairman you're not sure knows what he is doing.
Indeed.
The most frustrating thing is the amount of people I've come across with buyer's remorse. 'We didn't really think Leave would win.' Yes, well that's what you get for listening to the ramblings of a power mad egomaniac who's been sacked twice for lying in his professional work.
Race relations have been set back a few decades as the real racists feel mandated by the result. The disgraceful attacks on Poles this weekend is only the tip of the iceberg.
When the negotiations fail it will of course be the fault of those damn pesky EU bureaucrats hating us Brits.
Enjoy the sovereignty folks.
@ Right_in_the_Middle thanks for that! I do appreciate I'm clutching at straws. But must admit I hadn't realised the turnout for that age was so low. So that will teach them
.
Off to Texas DIY in the morning to get that loft hatch stuff.
Speechless @ NortumberlandBlue?
@NorthumberlandBlue .
Martin o'neil to be England manager!!!????
Clueless!
Get those Premier League B teams in the paint trophy and we'll win the World Cup in 2018!
As an aside. ITV definitely haa the better table for the pundits to sit round. Would quite fancy that for the conservatory.
What this tournament has shown that the Premier League stiffs absolutely MUST play every week against the likes of Barnet and Col U, otherwise England will win feck all (apart from maybe the Football League Trophy)
Wycombe would have performed considerably better than that rabble last night. It looked like 11 players with severe dyspraxia. Pile of shit.
Should have just watched Game of Thrones
@bill_stickers Actually it reminded me of last season's Wycombe. Predictable and totally ineffective in the final third. Did the Icelandic keep have a save to make in the second half?
The utter shambles of this whole tournament (we won one game against Wales after all) will leave the likes of Dyke and Davis looking for fault and reason and excuses. How the fack they will conclude the problem lies within the Football League structure is beyond me but that is what they will conclude.
If you pay someone like Sterling £250k a week he will believe he is the equal of David Silva etc when he is not. Same goes for most of the dross out there last night. The problem is not with technical development it is with mental development and these players are so deluded in their life outlook it can never be cured. The genie is out of the bottle as they say.
Wayne Rooney trying to defend anything in his interview last night was just the icing on the cake for me. He has not a clue as he is surrounded by people who are still prepared to tell him that what they did last night was acceptable.
Today I will be listening to The Sugar Cubes and Sigur Ros as a mark of respect to a team that cared beyond their ability. Well done sirs, may your kæstur hákarl taste more rotten than ever.
Was also listening to Sigur Ros this morning - the ( ) album (8 untitled tracks).