Private land maybe but a very public place on matchdays. The club would have to keep the same standards as public places with regards to health & safety and hygene so why not disabled parking. Many car parks offering disabled car parks are run by private companies in any case.
The club has made a mistake on this.
Dear god, the fact that this should even need to be discussed at such length is ridiculous.
Average attendances drop inside the stadium.
Each year an extra beer tent or other facility appears across what was once the lower car park.
Each year I have the capability of calling up the club and buying a season pass for the lower car park.
Each year empty space upon empty space is available in the upper car park.
Is the solution really that hard?
Tape off 20 extra lower car park spaces. Let anyone with a blue badge park there for free. Let the players, referee and manager park in the lower car park. Sell any REMAINING spaces to supporters, VIPs, let staff and board park there etc. BUT TAPE OFF ENOUGH DISABLED SPACES FIRST. Even if they're empty. An away fan with a blue badge should be able to drive in at 2:45PM, without having made any reservations or enquiries, pull into an empty disabled space metres from the turnstile, enter the ground and be in his seat by 2:50PM. There really is no excuse.
And before anyone says 'oh but there won't be enough room'...That's rubbish. Even if 5 people 'fraudulently' used the spaces each game. Are there really upwards of 30 blue badge holders attending every game in a crowd of 3000? And if there are, would it be better to cause a man in a wheelchair to have to turn up 3 hours early to get a space or for the ticket office staff to be asked to use the upper car park?
On the point of it being free, what do we have to lose?
Clearly it is very ropey ground charging disabled fans. The only argument for seems to be to stop people misusing them. So, you're penalising people for the actions of others, again dodgy ground.
Haven't read every post, but I wonder if there's been any comment about what it is likeat other clubs. Some clubs would barely have a carpark you could use anyway, but I wonder how other clubs deal with this.
approximately 5 per cent of the UK population are blue badge holders. The majority of those have the same earning capacity as non blue badge holders.
I do care and my priority would be in ensuring that if operationally possible, suitable spaces should be found to accommodate them near the ground such that they don't have to arrive at silly times.
That feels like a much more significant issue than whether or not they are charged. If charging helps to facilitate the former, thT seems the right way to go to me.
Well a lot of them are pensioners, who as we've learnt elsewhere are pretty much all millionaires who chuck an extra 20 pound note on the fire if it's getting chilly of an evening
But no, of course it's not true. Nor is it true that 5% of the population is a blue badge holder
it is around 5per cent - well 4.8 to be precise at last figures. Tap how many blue badges into UK.
Into Google to confirm.
Blue badges are skewed towards older people who tend as we have seen to be the most affluent in society.
Blue badges are a factor of mobility not a factor of income. For the majority of people affected, even the ones who have not retired, it does not impact their ability to work.
It is old fashioned and patronising to disabled people to assume that just because they have mobility issues, they must have income issues.
Some people of course do have issues that both effect ability to walk long distances and ability to earn.
Biggest priority is to provide parking accessible at a reasonable time.
Cost is a secondary priority to my eyes.
If imposing a charge assists the bigger priority, then that is worthwhile. Otherwise while arguably unnecessary probably not worth the flack to impose.
I'd have thought issues with mobility would correlate fairly strongly with income issues, both because it would be harder to do some jobs (and not just obvious jobs involving physical activity - issues with travelling to and from work would limit opportunities considerably) and because of the perception that someone with disabilities might not be a good employee making it harder to be recruited if you have a disability.
I've not looked at data around this so I might well be wrong, but I'd be genuinely surprised if the average income of blue badge holders was not significantly lower than the average income of the population as a whole.
In terms of income data, there's this http://www.poverty.org.uk/45/index.shtml?4 which is only for age 18 to retirement and doesn't look specifically at those with blue badges - but does indicate that disabled people are much more likely to want a job but not have one than the population as a whole.
There is quite a big difference I believe between being registered disabled and needing a blue badge. I don't have any statistics but I suspect you might be surprised how little correlation there is between blue badge and disposable income.
Perhaps we are getting to hung up on income. I think we all recognise that asking people who for physical reasons have to park near the ground to get there incredibly early is not acceptable. If a way could be found operationally to facilitate them knowing they could arrive at say 215 and be sure of getting a space, that must be preferable and probably have the side benefit of saving them money on drinks and food while they wait three hours before kick off.
If the best way of doing that was to have a small charge for parking, that still seems to me better than the current arrangements.
In the absence of data we'll have to remain in the dark on that one, but figures for disabled people seems a better proxy for blue badge holders than nothing.
I fully agree that blue badge holders should be able to arrive at 2.30pm and get an accessible space. I think this is best engineered through an increased number of spaces reserved for blue badge holders and a small, unobtrusive check that the blue badge holder is present upon arrival. I don't think the club should be charging blue badge holders to park.
Just to add to the mix. I qualify as a blue badge holder, having had crush fractures of the neck and spine in 1984. Whilst not ever having fully recovered, as I have a 20% limitation of movement in my neck, it has not ever crossed my mind to claim any of my entitled benefits. I have in general lived a full life and the "disability" hasn't hampered my ability to any great capacity to either move around and/or earn an income. I'm only 2 short years from qualifying as a senior rate ticket holder. I feel I would be extracting the urine if I used a space, even though I could very easily claim one. Not all blue badge holders need them, though clearly the majority do. It's those that abuse the system that spoil it for the rest.
230 might be a little late from a safety perspective (really don't want cars and people meeting in the car park if it can be avoided - whether blue badges or not). But I agree the principle. I am open to the possibility of charging if it makes that more possible.
In the absence of more information, might be time to leave it at that.
I think they should make as many spaces as needed for the blue badge holders. OK, there may be some misuse but that can be on the conscience of the person who takes wrongful advantage. There should also be no charge, it can be debated whether that is right or wrong, but I have no issue with it and it is the accepted norm.
If we are having issues with space, why not move the players parking up on to the hill - they are after all here as paid employees - same could apply for board members and other hangers-on who do not need an easy access space.
Whilst I certainly don't think blue badge holders should pay I certainly don't think it is quite "that simple." If 4% of the local population have this right that would mean a statistically average 160 spaces needed every week (on a slightly optimistic 4000 crowd). I appreciate that there are many reasons why it's likely to be a fair bit less than that, but it does suggest that we aren't providing anywhere near enough spaces.
And I am now curious about how grounds like Wembley manage this. Do they have 3500 spaces for badge holders?
Surely if nothing else, if a blue badge holder is a season ticket holder they should automatically have a free disabled parking space as a loyal supporter and couldn't this benefit be shown on their ticket so avoid regular checking. Probably too simple for the Trust Board to consider? How many season ticket holders are disabled?
DISABLED SUPPORTERS’ PARKING: Manchester United can boast the largest number of parking places available to disabled supporters compared to any stadium in the country. Notwithstanding the above, Manchester United is not in a position to offer convenient parking for every Blue Badge holder.
If you obtain a ticket as a wheelchair user you will automatically be granted a FREE parking place. You will not receive a Parking Permit but your name (as provided to us) will be entered onto a Match Invitation List which is issued to all relevant stewards.
Incidentally its £15 for blue badge parking for the L2 play offs at Wembley (£30 for cars)
Comments
Private land maybe but a very public place on matchdays. The club would have to keep the same standards as public places with regards to health & safety and hygene so why not disabled parking. Many car parks offering disabled car parks are run by private companies in any case.
The club has made a mistake on this.
Dear god, the fact that this should even need to be discussed at such length is ridiculous.
Average attendances drop inside the stadium.
Each year an extra beer tent or other facility appears across what was once the lower car park.
Each year I have the capability of calling up the club and buying a season pass for the lower car park.
Each year empty space upon empty space is available in the upper car park.
Is the solution really that hard?
Tape off 20 extra lower car park spaces. Let anyone with a blue badge park there for free. Let the players, referee and manager park in the lower car park. Sell any REMAINING spaces to supporters, VIPs, let staff and board park there etc. BUT TAPE OFF ENOUGH DISABLED SPACES FIRST. Even if they're empty. An away fan with a blue badge should be able to drive in at 2:45PM, without having made any reservations or enquiries, pull into an empty disabled space metres from the turnstile, enter the ground and be in his seat by 2:50PM. There really is no excuse.
And before anyone says 'oh but there won't be enough room'...That's rubbish. Even if 5 people 'fraudulently' used the spaces each game. Are there really upwards of 30 blue badge holders attending every game in a crowd of 3000? And if there are, would it be better to cause a man in a wheelchair to have to turn up 3 hours early to get a space or for the ticket office staff to be asked to use the upper car park?
On the point of it being free, what do we have to lose?
It really is that simple
Great post
Spot on @carrickblue Add to that numbered spaces for disabled s t holders and I think that all that is needed.
@drcongo -brilliant idea re fundraising. I would be more than happy to contribute to such a fund in light of the uncaring likes of DevC.
Clearly it is very ropey ground charging disabled fans. The only argument for seems to be to stop people misusing them. So, you're penalising people for the actions of others, again dodgy ground.
Haven't read every post, but I wonder if there's been any comment about what it is likeat other clubs. Some clubs would barely have a carpark you could use anyway, but I wonder how other clubs deal with this.
Not interested in other clubs...we should not be charging our Blue Badge holding supporters to park...end of
approximately 5 per cent of the UK population are blue badge holders. The majority of those have the same earning capacity as non blue badge holders.
I do care and my priority would be in ensuring that if operationally possible, suitable spaces should be found to accommodate them near the ground such that they don't have to arrive at silly times.
That feels like a much more significant issue than whether or not they are charged. If charging helps to facilitate the former, thT seems the right way to go to me.
The majority of those have the same earning capacity as non blue badge holders.
Is that true?
Well a lot of them are pensioners, who as we've learnt elsewhere are pretty much all millionaires who chuck an extra 20 pound note on the fire if it's getting chilly of an evening
But no, of course it's not true. Nor is it true that 5% of the population is a blue badge holder
it is around 5per cent - well 4.8 to be precise at last figures. Tap how many blue badges into UK.
Into Google to confirm.
Blue badges are skewed towards older people who tend as we have seen to be the most affluent in society.
Blue badges are a factor of mobility not a factor of income. For the majority of people affected, even the ones who have not retired, it does not impact their ability to work.
It is old fashioned and patronising to disabled people to assume that just because they have mobility issues, they must have income issues.
Some people of course do have issues that both effect ability to walk long distances and ability to earn.
Biggest priority is to provide parking accessible at a reasonable time.
Cost is a secondary priority to my eyes.
If imposing a charge assists the bigger priority, then that is worthwhile. Otherwise while arguably unnecessary probably not worth the flack to impose.
Yeah I have. What figures are you using?
The governments
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/265878/blue-badge-scheme-statistics-2013.pdf
Have to say I was surprised.
I'd have thought issues with mobility would correlate fairly strongly with income issues, both because it would be harder to do some jobs (and not just obvious jobs involving physical activity - issues with travelling to and from work would limit opportunities considerably) and because of the perception that someone with disabilities might not be a good employee making it harder to be recruited if you have a disability.
I've not looked at data around this so I might well be wrong, but I'd be genuinely surprised if the average income of blue badge holders was not significantly lower than the average income of the population as a whole.
You said "UK population"
Pedantry rather than substantive argument is a bad look. What's the figure for the UK population? Is it a big difference?
In terms of income data, there's this http://www.poverty.org.uk/45/index.shtml?4 which is only for age 18 to retirement and doesn't look specifically at those with blue badges - but does indicate that disabled people are much more likely to want a job but not have one than the population as a whole.
The latest figure for blue badges as a percentage of the population for Buckinghamshire (which is probably the most useful figure) is 4.1%
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/478980/dis0109.xls
Jesus Eric, that's lame.
There is quite a big difference I believe between being registered disabled and needing a blue badge. I don't have any statistics but I suspect you might be surprised how little correlation there is between blue badge and disposable income.
Perhaps we are getting to hung up on income. I think we all recognise that asking people who for physical reasons have to park near the ground to get there incredibly early is not acceptable. If a way could be found operationally to facilitate them knowing they could arrive at say 215 and be sure of getting a space, that must be preferable and probably have the side benefit of saving them money on drinks and food while they wait three hours before kick off.
If the best way of doing that was to have a small charge for parking, that still seems to me better than the current arrangements.
In the absence of data we'll have to remain in the dark on that one, but figures for disabled people seems a better proxy for blue badge holders than nothing.
I fully agree that blue badge holders should be able to arrive at 2.30pm and get an accessible space. I think this is best engineered through an increased number of spaces reserved for blue badge holders and a small, unobtrusive check that the blue badge holder is present upon arrival. I don't think the club should be charging blue badge holders to park.
Just to add to the mix. I qualify as a blue badge holder, having had crush fractures of the neck and spine in 1984. Whilst not ever having fully recovered, as I have a 20% limitation of movement in my neck, it has not ever crossed my mind to claim any of my entitled benefits. I have in general lived a full life and the "disability" hasn't hampered my ability to any great capacity to either move around and/or earn an income. I'm only 2 short years from qualifying as a senior rate ticket holder. I feel I would be extracting the urine if I used a space, even though I could very easily claim one. Not all blue badge holders need them, though clearly the majority do. It's those that abuse the system that spoil it for the rest.
Not really no. You introduced the criteria, you produced the stats, the stats were wrong.
You can't have it both ways
230 might be a little late from a safety perspective (really don't want cars and people meeting in the car park if it can be avoided - whether blue badges or not). But I agree the principle. I am open to the possibility of charging if it makes that more possible.
In the absence of more information, might be time to leave it at that.
That is fantastic news
Maybe all Wycombe fans should be means tested and charged accordingly for everything the club has to offer.
I think they should make as many spaces as needed for the blue badge holders. OK, there may be some misuse but that can be on the conscience of the person who takes wrongful advantage. There should also be no charge, it can be debated whether that is right or wrong, but I have no issue with it and it is the accepted norm.
If we are having issues with space, why not move the players parking up on to the hill - they are after all here as paid employees - same could apply for board members and other hangers-on who do not need an easy access space.
Quite right @Keith_Allens_Wig it really is that simple
Whilst I certainly don't think blue badge holders should pay I certainly don't think it is quite "that simple." If 4% of the local population have this right that would mean a statistically average 160 spaces needed every week (on a slightly optimistic 4000 crowd). I appreciate that there are many reasons why it's likely to be a fair bit less than that, but it does suggest that we aren't providing anywhere near enough spaces.
And I am now curious about how grounds like Wembley manage this. Do they have 3500 spaces for badge holders?
Surely if nothing else, if a blue badge holder is a season ticket holder they should automatically have a free disabled parking space as a loyal supporter and couldn't this benefit be shown on their ticket so avoid regular checking. Probably too simple for the Trust Board to consider? How many season ticket holders are disabled?
To partially answer my own question:
DISABLED SUPPORTERS’ PARKING: Manchester United can boast the largest number of parking places available to disabled supporters compared to any stadium in the country. Notwithstanding the above, Manchester United is not in a position to offer convenient parking for every Blue Badge holder.
If you obtain a ticket as a wheelchair user you will automatically be granted a FREE parking place. You will not receive a Parking Permit but your name (as provided to us) will be entered onto a Match Invitation List which is issued to all relevant stewards.
Incidentally its £15 for blue badge parking for the L2 play offs at Wembley (£30 for cars)