May I ask Davie, how many peoe are isually in the car when you arrive. Are you an adult. Is your family reasonably well off financilly or struggling. To get a parking space that you need, what time do you have to srrive to be sure? Is this convenient for you or would you prefer to arrive later? What are your feelings towards the "ed's " of this world.
@DevC In my case there is only ever myself and my dad who also has a blue badge of his own because of a heart condition. I am an adult yes age 46. I currently work but my income is restricted by my physical condition. My dad is long retired and by no means well off. We arrive between 12pm and 12:15pm and often there are only maybe 2 or 3 spaces left at most. For big games sometimes none left. I would love to be able to arrive nearer to kick off time. But can't risk having to park further away. I am sure some people would like disabled parking to be means tested. I can understand that argument. but it obviously isn't practical. Some don't think we should 'get away' without paying. And some don't understand the need for us to park close. To those people I say put yourself in our shoes just for one day and you will change your opinion. Disability is not a lifestyle choice.
Davie.
I absolutely respect your need to park close and that disability is not a lifestyle choice.
The 1215 thing is a serious issue and arguably unacceptable to expect the clubs disabled customers to arrive three hours before kick off because of their physical needs. Something needs to change.
Sorry to keep asking you personal questions but I am curious. I presume you and your dads condition means you have to sit at the game, maybe you would choose to do anyway but I presume in your case, you don't have the choice most of us do. So I guess between you you are paying say £40 for tickets plus if you have three hours to kill probably £10 or so more in drinks/food. Is that fair.
If the only choice was between this and arriving at say 1400 but paying say £5 between you for a guaranteed parking space in your name and saving a bit on food and drink, which would your preference and the better service for our disabled customers.
If the latter in practise that may only work for season ticket holders who could buy a season ticket parking space, is that attractive or am I way off beam.
Shameful stuff from the club. In the letter asking us to renew our season tickets it states - We want smiles on faces, a real friendly environment for you and your friends and family to enjoy. Then makes a decision like this. Difficult to see how this aim can be achieved when decisions of this nature are taken and communicated via the BFP. Very poor indeed.
As the decision has been made to charge for disabled parking spaces can I assume that all club officials and directors will also be making a payment for parking their cars?
@DevC To be honest with you cost is the big issue for me. Dad and I came very close to not being able to justify the cost next season and the parking charge almost finished us off. As for whether its essential for us to sit. Yes it is. Standing for any length of time is not an option for me. I'm sure a small charge for being guaranteed a parking space that until a later time is a possibility. Although I fail to see the need for the charge as its not exactly a money spinner for the club. And losing the support of myself and dad would cost the club much more money than just a parking charge. Season ticket holders could be given priority in the spaces available up to a certain time maybe after which they become available to other blue badge holders. I will also add I have been a regular supporters for something like 40 years and my dad 70+.
@Davieboy thanks for highlighting how this issue is affecting you, I'm sure we'd all rather be discussing prospective new signings than this
Please be assured that you have the support of your fellow supporters on this and I hope the club see the error of their ways and put an end to this before their reputation is damaged irreparably.
As others have said I'm not sure I want anything to do with a football club, least of all a fan owned football club, which treats its disabled supporters in this way
Thanks for everyone's support on this issue. It is much appreciated and very heart warming to know my fellow Wycombe fans are behind the disabled supporters. Lets hope the club make the right decision and put things right. Looking forward to seeing who we sign in the coming weeks.
I don't think we should charge the disabled to park at AP. Who in their right mind gives a monkeys if the disabled person has had the good fortune to not be poor as well?
For me, anyone who's mobile and parking in that car park while the disabled are being charged or told to park down the road, should be fucking well ashamed of themselves. And that includes sponsors, board members, vice presidents etc. Even the players can get up in the top car park if need be.
And the practice of needing to be at the ground by midday to secure a spot is the worst thing about all of this. My father in law had 2 years of the blue badge 'perk' as he slowly died of cancer. Luckily he hated football, but if he hadn't it wouldn't have been easy for him to hang about at AP for 6 hours. The logistics were pretty difficult when he went to places where he was welcomed. Unlike, it seems, Wycombe Wanderers.
If money really is this tight then stick a quid on the other parking tickets. If that makes it unaffordable for the able bodied then they can discover the joys of walking. Or the bus.
Whoever said this doesn't sit right with the happy clappy season ticket renewal puff was spot on. It's disgraceful.
Thanks davieboy for your honesty. It is interesting to see how the issue feels to someone directly affected. I hope you were not offended by me asking personal questions to better understand.
It does feel something has to change if disabled supporters have to arrive ridiculously early to get a parking space they need due to their condition. The club has come up with a plan , whether it's the right one who knows. It would be good to hear the rationale.
Thanks for sharing your story, davieboy. Enjoy next season
I think it's good these things are being discussed/considered and have people thinking but surely for a response rather than a group providing their opinions and relying on someone from the Trust seeing the original post here has Watford Blue or anyone bothered just asking the club ?
@crabbie what we do know is that it's a 'football club matter' which remains 'under consideration'. So, not much point in asking the football club as they'll just say it's under consideration. But we also know that the football club have taken money from disabled supporters for parking at AP, despite this being 'under consideration'.
One can only hope that their 'consideration' might be swayed by a bit of noise on various websites. And I think we can be absolutely certain that this would not be 'under consideration' if the policy not been publicised. The club were/are trying to get away with it, and I find that pretty sad.
@Davieboy and his dad have been good friends of mine for many years and I was very concerned when they told me what had happened when they went to renew their season tickets.
I may be wrong but my suspicion is that the proposed (actual in their case) introduction of charges was a clumsy, ill-considered attempt by the club to prevent misuse of the limited number of disabled spaces. As I understand it people buying season tickets are required to show ID at the time. Certainly that was true in @Davieboy's case. Problems may well arise when people buying tickets by 'phone say (as I gather some do) that they are disabled. Checking ID and increasing the number of disabled spaces would seem to be the way ahead.
I don't think you need to resign from the Trust @Onlooker. This situation applies only to spaces within the lower car park inside the ground.
This thread seems to have split into two subjects so I will try and give my thoughts on both separately.
Number of parking spaces. As wonderful as it would be to say that there should be enough disabled spaces for all, practically this is not a sensible move for the club. This is a combination of a bunch of factors. An ageing population, a finite space amount of space and the need to maximise profit have to be taken into account.
However this doesn't mean the club cannot do more. A sensible suggestion might be to reserve an area on the hill near the entrance/exit for those who are the driver of a disabled person but are mobile themselves. It would require a bigger logistical change as these cars would need to be released right to collect (or rather right around the roundabout) rather than left down the Hillsbottom Road but it could be trialled.
Charges. There are two things here. The first is that putting people off coming to the ground costs the club money. A ticket is more valuable. So are concessions over the long term. As pointed out, there are a group of immobile people who do have money to spend. We need to maximise that income to the club.
For those who are financially disadvantaged by their disability, we also need to get them in. Its much better to have them having a good time and deciding that this is what to spend their limited income on rather than spending it televised sport (for instance). Creating another barrier for this is likely to really add up over a season.
This is an argument that could even be extended out further to normal people of course and it may be that the club needs to look at whether they have hit the golden price that creates the most income without putting off potential revenue.
@eric_plant Chris is not being patronising. You seem to take a very strange approach to this subject - namely that it is so utterly distasteful that it should not even be discussed. A bit like Victorian attitudes to menstruation.
It is far better everyone discusses it openly, educates each other, and thinks critically, than you just shouting everyone down saying how disgusting they are for thinking differently to you.
@bill_stickers - quite agree. And @FallenFlyer you make some good points - though I'm not sure about the practicality of your drop off/pick up suggestion - but please use "able-bodied" rather than "normal".
Here's an idea. If the trust actually uphold this rather grotesque initiative, I'll create a fundraiser on Kickstarter or Indiegogo for people with an ounce of empathy to pay the parking charges for disabled fans.
Fairly sure I could generate enough internet / local / national press around it that we can pay the lot. Or possibly enough press to cause a u-turn.
We all know there are abuses of everything at every level, but I think we have to assume that the vast majority of people who use a disability blue badge for parking at the club are trustworthy and so should the club.
True @Chris but surely it is much easier for the club to sting blue badgers than mess about employing someone to go around every matchday and upset them?
Can't believe the amount of words written about what is for me a very clear topic. Bluebadge holders should have the same rights and expectations at Wycombe Wanderers than they do anywhere else.
Also the club may argue they need more space for disabled spaces yet they take up more car park space with more beer tents.
Blue badges have a photo of the registered holder on them. It would be quite simple and unobtrusive for a steward to check the holder is actually in the vehicle, without asking for further ID before directing the car to the free designated areas.
If it was known that cars without the badge holder present would be turned away I reckon any abuse of the current system would soon stop.
@Right_in_the_Middle blue badges don't give any rights on private land. But if your point is that the club should allow blue badge holders to park for free then I agree.
Comments
May I ask Davie, how many peoe are isually in the car when you arrive. Are you an adult. Is your family reasonably well off financilly or struggling. To get a parking space that you need, what time do you have to srrive to be sure? Is this convenient for you or would you prefer to arrive later? What are your feelings towards the "ed's " of this world.
Thanks.
Even for the able bodied, ten quid to park at AP is ridiculous.
@DevC In my case there is only ever myself and my dad who also has a blue badge of his own because of a heart condition. I am an adult yes age 46. I currently work but my income is restricted by my physical condition. My dad is long retired and by no means well off. We arrive between 12pm and 12:15pm and often there are only maybe 2 or 3 spaces left at most. For big games sometimes none left. I would love to be able to arrive nearer to kick off time. But can't risk having to park further away. I am sure some people would like disabled parking to be means tested. I can understand that argument. but it obviously isn't practical. Some don't think we should 'get away' without paying. And some don't understand the need for us to park close. To those people I say put yourself in our shoes just for one day and you will change your opinion. Disability is not a lifestyle choice.
Davie.
I absolutely respect your need to park close and that disability is not a lifestyle choice.
The 1215 thing is a serious issue and arguably unacceptable to expect the clubs disabled customers to arrive three hours before kick off because of their physical needs. Something needs to change.
Sorry to keep asking you personal questions but I am curious. I presume you and your dads condition means you have to sit at the game, maybe you would choose to do anyway but I presume in your case, you don't have the choice most of us do. So I guess between you you are paying say £40 for tickets plus if you have three hours to kill probably £10 or so more in drinks/food. Is that fair.
If the only choice was between this and arriving at say 1400 but paying say £5 between you for a guaranteed parking space in your name and saving a bit on food and drink, which would your preference and the better service for our disabled customers.
If the latter in practise that may only work for season ticket holders who could buy a season ticket parking space, is that attractive or am I way off beam.
Come on, we really must NOT charge blue badge holders to park outside the ground. I will resign from the Trust if this decision is upheld.
Shameful stuff from the club. In the letter asking us to renew our season tickets it states - We want smiles on faces, a real friendly environment for you and your friends and family to enjoy. Then makes a decision like this. Difficult to see how this aim can be achieved when decisions of this nature are taken and communicated via the BFP. Very poor indeed.
As the decision has been made to charge for disabled parking spaces can I assume that all club officials and directors will also be making a payment for parking their cars?
As said before, more than happy to contribute to the club to allow for free parking for our disabled supporters
So this is where we are now, a fan tells us that he uses a wheelchair and needs to park at the ground, and dev quizzes him as to how well off he is.
How utterly moronic, distasteful and disrespectful. What a bitter taste this whole debate has left in the mouth
Most people get it I think. WWFC: provide as many disabled parking spaces as are needed, and for free. We may miss out on a few quid, who cares.
@DevC To be honest with you cost is the big issue for me. Dad and I came very close to not being able to justify the cost next season and the parking charge almost finished us off. As for whether its essential for us to sit. Yes it is. Standing for any length of time is not an option for me. I'm sure a small charge for being guaranteed a parking space that until a later time is a possibility. Although I fail to see the need for the charge as its not exactly a money spinner for the club. And losing the support of myself and dad would cost the club much more money than just a parking charge. Season ticket holders could be given priority in the spaces available up to a certain time maybe after which they become available to other blue badge holders. I will also add I have been a regular supporters for something like 40 years and my dad 70+.
Patronising prick
@Davieboy thanks for highlighting how this issue is affecting you, I'm sure we'd all rather be discussing prospective new signings than this
Please be assured that you have the support of your fellow supporters on this and I hope the club see the error of their ways and put an end to this before their reputation is damaged irreparably.
As others have said I'm not sure I want anything to do with a football club, least of all a fan owned football club, which treats its disabled supporters in this way
Thanks for everyone's support on this issue. It is much appreciated and very heart warming to know my fellow Wycombe fans are behind the disabled supporters. Lets hope the club make the right decision and put things right. Looking forward to seeing who we sign in the coming weeks.
I don't think we should charge the disabled to park at AP. Who in their right mind gives a monkeys if the disabled person has had the good fortune to not be poor as well?
For me, anyone who's mobile and parking in that car park while the disabled are being charged or told to park down the road, should be fucking well ashamed of themselves. And that includes sponsors, board members, vice presidents etc. Even the players can get up in the top car park if need be.
And the practice of needing to be at the ground by midday to secure a spot is the worst thing about all of this. My father in law had 2 years of the blue badge 'perk' as he slowly died of cancer. Luckily he hated football, but if he hadn't it wouldn't have been easy for him to hang about at AP for 6 hours. The logistics were pretty difficult when he went to places where he was welcomed. Unlike, it seems, Wycombe Wanderers.
If money really is this tight then stick a quid on the other parking tickets. If that makes it unaffordable for the able bodied then they can discover the joys of walking. Or the bus.
Whoever said this doesn't sit right with the happy clappy season ticket renewal puff was spot on. It's disgraceful.
Well said @arnos_grove
Thanks davieboy for your honesty. It is interesting to see how the issue feels to someone directly affected. I hope you were not offended by me asking personal questions to better understand.
It does feel something has to change if disabled supporters have to arrive ridiculously early to get a parking space they need due to their condition. The club has come up with a plan , whether it's the right one who knows. It would be good to hear the rationale.
Thanks for sharing your story, davieboy. Enjoy next season
I think it's good these things are being discussed/considered and have people thinking but surely for a response rather than a group providing their opinions and relying on someone from the Trust seeing the original post here has Watford Blue or anyone bothered just asking the club ?
@crabbie what we do know is that it's a 'football club matter' which remains 'under consideration'. So, not much point in asking the football club as they'll just say it's under consideration. But we also know that the football club have taken money from disabled supporters for parking at AP, despite this being 'under consideration'.
One can only hope that their 'consideration' might be swayed by a bit of noise on various websites. And I think we can be absolutely certain that this would not be 'under consideration' if the policy not been publicised. The club were/are trying to get away with it, and I find that pretty sad.
@Davieboy and his dad have been good friends of mine for many years and I was very concerned when they told me what had happened when they went to renew their season tickets.
I may be wrong but my suspicion is that the proposed (actual in their case) introduction of charges was a clumsy, ill-considered attempt by the club to prevent misuse of the limited number of disabled spaces. As I understand it people buying season tickets are required to show ID at the time. Certainly that was true in @Davieboy's case. Problems may well arise when people buying tickets by 'phone say (as I gather some do) that they are disabled. Checking ID and increasing the number of disabled spaces would seem to be the way ahead.
I don't think you need to resign from the Trust @Onlooker. This situation applies only to spaces within the lower car park inside the ground.
This thread seems to have split into two subjects so I will try and give my thoughts on both separately.
Number of parking spaces. As wonderful as it would be to say that there should be enough disabled spaces for all, practically this is not a sensible move for the club. This is a combination of a bunch of factors. An ageing population, a finite space amount of space and the need to maximise profit have to be taken into account.
However this doesn't mean the club cannot do more. A sensible suggestion might be to reserve an area on the hill near the entrance/exit for those who are the driver of a disabled person but are mobile themselves. It would require a bigger logistical change as these cars would need to be released right to collect (or rather right around the roundabout) rather than left down the Hillsbottom Road but it could be trialled.
Charges. There are two things here. The first is that putting people off coming to the ground costs the club money. A ticket is more valuable. So are concessions over the long term. As pointed out, there are a group of immobile people who do have money to spend. We need to maximise that income to the club.
For those who are financially disadvantaged by their disability, we also need to get them in. Its much better to have them having a good time and deciding that this is what to spend their limited income on rather than spending it televised sport (for instance). Creating another barrier for this is likely to really add up over a season.
This is an argument that could even be extended out further to normal people of course and it may be that the club needs to look at whether they have hit the golden price that creates the most income without putting off potential revenue.
@eric_plant Chris is not being patronising. You seem to take a very strange approach to this subject - namely that it is so utterly distasteful that it should not even be discussed. A bit like Victorian attitudes to menstruation.
It is far better everyone discusses it openly, educates each other, and thinks critically, than you just shouting everyone down saying how disgusting they are for thinking differently to you.
@bill_stickers - quite agree. And @FallenFlyer you make some good points - though I'm not sure about the practicality of your drop off/pick up suggestion - but please use "able-bodied" rather than "normal".
@bill_stickers "It would also be good to let people in for free. But this is the real world."
One of the most patronising things I've read on the gasroom.
Aye, maybe I could have been more tactful.
Here's an idea. If the trust actually uphold this rather grotesque initiative, I'll create a fundraiser on Kickstarter or Indiegogo for people with an ounce of empathy to pay the parking charges for disabled fans.
Fairly sure I could generate enough internet / local / national press around it that we can pay the lot. Or possibly enough press to cause a u-turn.
We all know there are abuses of everything at every level, but I think we have to assume that the vast majority of people who use a disability blue badge for parking at the club are trustworthy and so should the club.
We don't have to assume that as it would be simple to check.
True @Chris but surely it is much easier for the club to sting blue badgers than mess about employing someone to go around every matchday and upset them?
Can't believe the amount of words written about what is for me a very clear topic. Bluebadge holders should have the same rights and expectations at Wycombe Wanderers than they do anywhere else.
Also the club may argue they need more space for disabled spaces yet they take up more car park space with more beer tents.
Blue badges have a photo of the registered holder on them. It would be quite simple and unobtrusive for a steward to check the holder is actually in the vehicle, without asking for further ID before directing the car to the free designated areas.
If it was known that cars without the badge holder present would be turned away I reckon any abuse of the current system would soon stop.
@Right_in_the_Middle blue badges don't give any rights on private land. But if your point is that the club should allow blue badge holders to park for free then I agree.
@carrickblue that's exactly my thoughts too.