I was going to say exactly this. I'm too lazy to Google but I wonder how many league clubs are based in an area with such sparse local news coverage as Wycombe has. I imagine most are in towns and cities served by a daily newspaper (or, at least, an area which historically had a daily paper).
Don't underestimate the importance of that for 1) installing civic pride and 2) providing the level of coverage and support for the football club that raises awareness and interest and drives people to the ground.
Wycombe really lacks that push factor. Combined with difficulty in getting to the ground, expense of the afternoon / evening out, and (perceived) ugly football played until the last couple of seasons, it's perhaps more understandable why numbers have been historically low.
There is an answer to this one - don't drive through the centre of Cambridge. The Newmarket Road Park and Ride is free to park at and about 15 minutes walk from the ground. Traffic lights to get out of the car park, leave in the Newmarket direction, it is in the opposite direction to Wycombe but two roundabouts and you can be on the A14 heading west. Would be very surprised if you couldn't be on the M11 within 30 mins of the final whistle.
I know both areas pretty well and Cambridge is much easier than Wycombe for access to the football ground and unfortunately I can't think of an easy way to disperse a large crowd from Adams Park.
I mean, the land Wycombe Abbey has is insane. I was in Police Cadets in the 90’s and we would use their grounds occasionally. Would be easy to get to from town and away fans would also get to experience the ‘High’ element of Wycombe and a nice downhill walk on the way home.
Of all the lateral thinking re accessing AP no one has mentioned a ‘flyover’. I’m not thinking ‘spaghetti junction’ levels of engineering but more akin to a ‘temporary’ overpass a la the Hogarth roundabout on the A4 at Chiswick (which has been there for pushing 60 years and still does a job). A bit like the Chiswick flyover closer to town which was built over the top of the old A4 if ours was constructed over the existing industrial estate road it would double capacity.
Perhaps the chairlift could be slung below it (affording some weather protection) if built high enough?
Nb: in a blue sky brain storming session there are no wrong answers!!
I must admit with no organised car parking Cambridge was a very easy motoring experience. And with crowds 20% higher than ours it’s hardly causing them a problem.
This is one of the most important ways to build a fan base for the future and has been confirmed in several surveys over the years. It’s true that Rob Couhig was against reducing prices but as he was the one putting money into the club that was his prerogative.
I’ve just come back to this thread after a couple of days break and I started with the above post. I read on for another dozen or so posts but (a) mrs micra has been asking when the bloody porage (Scott’s Old Fashioned) is going to be ready and (b) the only post within a smidgin of the nominal thread title (before I gave up) was @Malone’s reference to parking at Bristol Rovers ground.
But……the reason I’m here now is to question @Wycombe85’s assertion that we could regularly attract crowds of 10,000+ in the ‘50s, ‘60s and early ‘70s. Really? I remember 10,000 being crammed in like sardines in January 1975 for the match against Middlesbrough but I don’t recall anything approaching that number in the late ‘60s or early’70s.
@micra You may well be correct! All before my time. Perhaps it was more the 50's we had those enormous crowds. I remember being awestruck as a kid when we got 4k+ against Kidderminster that time. Then I'd read about the crowds up to 15k we used to pack in. Must have been incredible!
I can’t remember who raised the question about the location of Adams Park versus potential alternative sites, but from memory (admittedly a little hazy these days!) the club sought planning permission to build a new stadium on several more suitable sites including Handy Cross. The local council rejected applications for site after site and even Hillbottom Road was initially refused. The club had to appeal against the final rejection because there were no suitable sites left and the Hillbottom Road refusal was overturned by central government.
"The record attendance was 15,850 for an FA Amateur Cup Fourth Round tie on Saturday 25 February 1950, when Wycombe Wanderers beat St Albans City 4–1. It remains to this day the highest attendance for a Wycombe Wanderers home fixture."
I was at school then and standing on the bank at what became the hospital end. There were no barriers
All we need, in my opinion, (and sort of what @eric_plant said) is for the management group to negotiate with some or all of the businesses with very large car parks and bob's your uncle. They could even pay some volunteers to do a bit of traffic management at the end of games. Still be a bugger getting out...but it's a bugger getting out now. I think the chances of them building a new stadium in the area is quite slim...and even though the parking IS good at that lovely empty stadium near Ikea and Costco we really don't want that do we? Wycombe Dons. MK Wanderers.
Talking of being a bugger to get out - Tuesday night was ridiculous for the number of lorries & containers parked along Hillbottom Road; I thought they were clamping down on that on matchdays?
Absolutely, it’s a disgrace and imagine if we’d have been playing a game that had attracted a bigger crowd. They consistently park on double yellow lines and get away with it causing a potentially dangerous situation should emergency vehicles need to get to Adams Park.
This is absolutely right. If there are security issues at the Hillbottom road businesses, then the Management group can offer to help solve them. It must be physically possible to separate access to a car park from access to the buildings for match days, even if it means some infrastructure.
That and a decent bus service to and from the railway station, if Reading can manage it with local council / bus company / lack of billions - I am sure we can.
I still don't think location is the key issue. When we were getting consistently higher attendances at AP it was a totally different society. There was less competition for people's time, the price of football was less at the turnstile, the price of the day out was less and there was less access to football on TV.
A family day out at AP might cost £100 all in. That's a chunk of change.
And although the Premier League might appear to be flying in terms of attendances ask core fans their opinion. The rise in football tourism across the board has masked the decline in 'real' fans attending. I have friends from all London clubs who say the same. And they have all gone from wouldn't miss a game to pick and choose and using the club re-sell services to retain their season ticket.
I would say a significant issue with our oasis is the lack of engagement within schools and the local community. In the MoN era every chip shop would have a fixture list and you could see that Kidderminster (H) was coming up soon. School receptions would have a poster of fixtures etc.
As for the 'product' I often take my friend's son along and he LOVES it. In the same way that I LOVED it when I was a lad. There is nothing wrong with the matchday experience and the football, and football still being a thing to fall in love with. We just need to let more people know.
I think they take the view, rightly or wrongly, that anything involving a sports club only benefits a small proportion of Council Tax payers, whereas the Council's remit is to make decisions which benefit the majority of the local poulation.
Wycombe District Council doesn't exist anymore. Unfortunately, we now come under the remit of the debt-laden waste of space that is Buckinghamshire Council.
As I wasn’t on the board at that time I don’t know the full details, it was former manager Brian Lee who oversaw the project. I agree that the council’s attitude was short sighted.
Comments
I was going to say exactly this. I'm too lazy to Google but I wonder how many league clubs are based in an area with such sparse local news coverage as Wycombe has. I imagine most are in towns and cities served by a daily newspaper (or, at least, an area which historically had a daily paper).
Don't underestimate the importance of that for 1) installing civic pride and 2) providing the level of coverage and support for the football club that raises awareness and interest and drives people to the ground.
Wycombe really lacks that push factor. Combined with difficulty in getting to the ground, expense of the afternoon / evening out, and (perceived) ugly football played until the last couple of seasons, it's perhaps more understandable why numbers have been historically low.
Very few places have decent local news any more
There is an answer to this one - don't drive through the centre of Cambridge. The Newmarket Road Park and Ride is free to park at and about 15 minutes walk from the ground. Traffic lights to get out of the car park, leave in the Newmarket direction, it is in the opposite direction to Wycombe but two roundabouts and you can be on the A14 heading west. Would be very surprised if you couldn't be on the M11 within 30 mins of the final whistle.
I know both areas pretty well and Cambridge is much easier than Wycombe for access to the football ground and unfortunately I can't think of an easy way to disperse a large crowd from Adams Park.
Booker airfield and the old training ground as a car park.
I mean, the land Wycombe Abbey has is insane. I was in Police Cadets in the 90’s and we would use their grounds occasionally. Would be easy to get to from town and away fans would also get to experience the ‘High’ element of Wycombe and a nice downhill walk on the way home.
Of all the lateral thinking re accessing AP no one has mentioned a ‘flyover’. I’m not thinking ‘spaghetti junction’ levels of engineering but more akin to a ‘temporary’ overpass a la the Hogarth roundabout on the A4 at Chiswick (which has been there for pushing 60 years and still does a job). A bit like the Chiswick flyover closer to town which was built over the top of the old A4 if ours was constructed over the existing industrial estate road it would double capacity.
Perhaps the chairlift could be slung below it (affording some weather protection) if built high enough?
Nb: in a blue sky brain storming session there are no wrong answers!!
I must admit with no organised car parking Cambridge was a very easy motoring experience. And with crowds 20% higher than ours it’s hardly causing them a problem.
I'm not at all convinced there's an area in the town centre big enough for a football ground.
For comparison here's a screenshot of AP and Morrisons at the same magnification
AP just about fits into the Morrisons site.
Not a bad idea.
This is one of the most important ways to build a fan base for the future and has been confirmed in several surveys over the years. It’s true that Rob Couhig was against reducing prices but as he was the one putting money into the club that was his prerogative.
I’ve just come back to this thread after a couple of days break and I started with the above post. I read on for another dozen or so posts but (a) mrs micra has been asking when the bloody porage (Scott’s Old Fashioned) is going to be ready and (b) the only post within a smidgin of the nominal thread title (before I gave up) was @Malone’s reference to parking at Bristol Rovers ground.
But……the reason I’m here now is to question @Wycombe85’s assertion that we could regularly attract crowds of 10,000+ in the ‘50s, ‘60s and early ‘70s. Really? I remember 10,000 being crammed in like sardines in January 1975 for the match against Middlesbrough but I don’t recall anything approaching that number in the late ‘60s or early’70s.
Original idea replacing a supermarket with a a football stadium. I like it.
Oxford is pretty terrible
In the early 70's, late 60's I remember changing ends at half time and can't recollect a game when it wasn't possible - other than the 'Boro one.
@micra You may well be correct! All before my time. Perhaps it was more the 50's we had those enormous crowds. I remember being awestruck as a kid when we got 4k+ against Kidderminster that time. Then I'd read about the crowds up to 15k we used to pack in. Must have been incredible!
I can’t remember who raised the question about the location of Adams Park versus potential alternative sites, but from memory (admittedly a little hazy these days!) the club sought planning permission to build a new stadium on several more suitable sites including Handy Cross. The local council rejected applications for site after site and even Hillbottom Road was initially refused. The club had to appeal against the final rejection because there were no suitable sites left and the Hillbottom Road refusal was overturned by central government.
This remains the record crowd:-
"The record attendance was 15,850 for an FA Amateur Cup Fourth Round tie on Saturday 25 February 1950, when Wycombe Wanderers beat St Albans City 4–1. It remains to this day the highest attendance for a Wycombe Wanderers home fixture."
I was at school then and standing on the bank at what became the hospital end. There were no barriers
but it didn't seem dangerous.
It is but there are very frequent buses from the city centre to Blackbird Leys and Littlemore, so public transport access is pretty decent.
All we need, in my opinion, (and sort of what @eric_plant said) is for the management group to negotiate with some or all of the businesses with very large car parks and bob's your uncle. They could even pay some volunteers to do a bit of traffic management at the end of games. Still be a bugger getting out...but it's a bugger getting out now. I think the chances of them building a new stadium in the area is quite slim...and even though the parking IS good at that lovely empty stadium near Ikea and Costco we really don't want that do we? Wycombe Dons. MK Wanderers.
Talking of being a bugger to get out - Tuesday night was ridiculous for the number of lorries & containers parked along Hillbottom Road; I thought they were clamping down on that on matchdays?
Absolutely, it’s a disgrace and imagine if we’d have been playing a game that had attracted a bigger crowd. They consistently park on double yellow lines and get away with it causing a potentially dangerous situation should emergency vehicles need to get to Adams Park.
Why did the council reject so many applications? What reasons did they give? It seems a clear act of self-harm for the town
This is absolutely right. If there are security issues at the Hillbottom road businesses, then the Management group can offer to help solve them. It must be physically possible to separate access to a car park from access to the buildings for match days, even if it means some infrastructure.
That and a decent bus service to and from the railway station, if Reading can manage it with local council / bus company / lack of billions - I am sure we can.
The chairlift will just be icing on the cake.
I still don't think location is the key issue. When we were getting consistently higher attendances at AP it was a totally different society. There was less competition for people's time, the price of football was less at the turnstile, the price of the day out was less and there was less access to football on TV.
A family day out at AP might cost £100 all in. That's a chunk of change.
And although the Premier League might appear to be flying in terms of attendances ask core fans their opinion. The rise in football tourism across the board has masked the decline in 'real' fans attending. I have friends from all London clubs who say the same. And they have all gone from wouldn't miss a game to pick and choose and using the club re-sell services to retain their season ticket.
I would say a significant issue with our oasis is the lack of engagement within schools and the local community. In the MoN era every chip shop would have a fixture list and you could see that Kidderminster (H) was coming up soon. School receptions would have a poster of fixtures etc.
As for the 'product' I often take my friend's son along and he LOVES it. In the same way that I LOVED it when I was a lad. There is nothing wrong with the matchday experience and the football, and football still being a thing to fall in love with. We just need to let more people know.
I think they take the view, rightly or wrongly, that anything involving a sports club only benefits a small proportion of Council Tax payers, whereas the Council's remit is to make decisions which benefit the majority of the local poulation.
Short sighted I know, but that's how it is.
The Council was composed of a bunch of Tories who hated football in general and football fans in particular.
You may decry this as excessively political, but witness the counter example of how they fell over themselves to accommodate Wasps.
Wycombe District Council doesn't exist anymore. Unfortunately, we now come under the remit of the debt-laden waste of space that is Buckinghamshire Council.
As I wasn’t on the board at that time I don’t know the full details, it was former manager Brian Lee who oversaw the project. I agree that the council’s attitude was short sighted.
Some snippets from the Official History, showing the contempt with which the council treated the club
Blimey. We owe Brian Lee an enormous debt of gratitude, and the council really didn't like the football club!