Missed opportunity for me. People get all in a lather about the two young Spanish wingers but forget about the brilliant talent we have (some not even used). Williams is a terrific player but if you give him that much space he is going to produce good service, and Walker gifted him that space. TAA is criticised for his defensive work and rightly so but Walker was week in defence and attack tonight.
Kane sadly has passed his prime in that formation. Shearer spoke earlier in the tournament that when he hit 30 he had to have a player up with him. Makes total sense. Kane has not become a bad player of course not but he is not effective in that formation.
Long and short of it we set up a team to not lose rather than try and go toe to toe with Spain. I think we could have challenged them if we had attacked more with more attacking options from the start. But there you. Missed opportunity again due to our timid nature sadly.
Spain obviously a good side but were they that great no , just negative tactics and sticking with players struggling all tournament. Another manager would have won that and the previous tournament with the players we now have.
I rarely speak to myself but I must correct that. England could do with a magician but I actually had in mind Graham Potter, an ex Wycombe player, who worked wonders for Brighton & Hove Albion and came in for praise from Pep Guardiola..
Feel like we were too nice for that type of final. Against Oxford in the play-offs, when we had little of the ball in comparison, we were real niggly sods. Think of a Mourinho team in that situation, one that knows a final is for winning and is willing to be sh*thouses.
In the end, Spain managed to do that side of it and be the best on the ball.
A part of the game epitomised by Cucurella, a player who couldn’t be described as world class but is capable of fouling his way through 90 minutes without sanction and managed last night to create the winning goal, then went on to kill the last couple of minutes of injury time by running into Saka’s arm and getting Saka booked for the privilege. Our dark arts by comparison are as pasty as Dave Carroll.
No one is disputing that we are just saying better management of the players we had at our disposal we would have more and likely matched them . Another chance missed .
Victim of his own success or reverting to type and abandoning what got you there? There's a good argument that without Southgate bringing the players together as a group and shielding them from the press at times we'd still be the shambles squad that barely makes the occasional quarter final but it's difficult to also ignore the reluctance to change, the reliance on tried and tested players regardless of form and fitness and how Spain have entirely trashed their tikitaka heritage to get the best out of flying young wingers while we sit back deeper and deeper waiting for the opposition to score before unleashing exciting subs for 30 seconds of attack.
For me I'm grateful but it's time for him to move on, and that's with no guarantee that we suddenly start winning things (even if Kalvin Phillips returns)
In a crazy world, what a wonderful tournament this was.
Men, women, families from every corner of England coming together in unity with men, women and families from every corner of Germany, putting to bed forever the lazy spiteful tabloid stereotype of 'hooliganism'.
Start spreading the news...New York New York (East Rutherford)
I'm saying with the players we have available and the resources put into the team we should be the best team in the tournament. Spain have 2 outstanding attackers (note to Kyle Walker) and a central midfielder who pulls the strings. They set up their team knowing that they need to get the ball wide and these talented players will do the business. I don't think they have 11 players better than England.
For all the hype and self congratulation about certain players there are some stand out stats about players that are so much better for their club. Foden zero goal involvements for the whole tournament. How do we turn a player that is so effective for his club into one that is so impotent across a whole tournament?
Southgate has done wonders for our national team but I do feel he has squandered talent in favour of an over-cautious setup.
Its very easy to say we should be the best team at the tournament. Other countries also with outstanding often young talent may disagree. This tournament we had some major issues - perhaps endemic at the moment in the players we have available.
1) We only have one decent left back and he was injured for much of the tournament. Not aware of anyone who could have been selected to fill that role.
2) Our left side attack options are materially inferior to our right
3) We have a wealth of talent in right and centre attacking midfield but hard to see how to get them all into the team.
4) Our CF, with an amazing record, was out of sorts. Back up options (notwithstanding Watkins goal in the SF) are not inspiring.
5) Our GK did nothing wrong but is no more than adequate for me.
Despite all that we made it to our first final on overseas soil - albeit helped by a favourable draw - and have performed better in the last four tournaments than we have ever come remotely close to.
Who knows what players are just about to burst onto the scene that we currently haven't heard of. The next four years could be very exciting. But the likes of Spain, France, Germany, Portugal, Brazil and Argentina may well be able to say the same thing.
If Southgate chooses to leave now, he should leave to a huge collective thank you for what he has done IMHO but I suspect given our culture, he will instead leave to a storm of criticism. Ho hum.
If we really want then to seek to maximise the talent we have, the next manager needs to be the absolute best person available to do the job. That is not for me a run of the mill manager who once had a couple of .decent seasons with Brighton. I hope the FA are gently sounding out Klopp and Guardiola.
Everyone talks about Klopp as though he would usher in a period of unprecedented success but he has a similar failing when it come to big European finals. He's lost 3 champions league finals with Dortmund and Liverpool and a Europa League final with Liverpool.
If only England could come up against the European/World equivalent of Spurs (ie a team that never wins anything) we'd be laughing
Hold on......are "we" the European/World equivalent of Spurs?
Regarding your comment on Foden, the answer to his ineffectiveness for England is that he has far better players alongside him at City. He has a world class striker in Haaland and a better fellow attacking midfielder in De Bruyne than we have.
I feel that if Southgate had not shown so much blind faith in Kane throughout the Tournament we could have won this. With our mobile and talented midfield, we needed a mobile striker they could play to. Toney or Watkins would have injected the necessary energy and pace.
1 - agreed, biggest weakness in the England squad. I still think that Rico Lewis should have been tried out, did a decent enough job for Pep, albeit a handful of games.
2 - we have Gordon and Eze on the left, neither of who got a look in because Southgate prefers to play both Bellingham and Foden in the same side, hence he played one out of position at any given time to the cost of the balance of the team and to the cost of the attacking threat down the left. Whether or not those two are materially weaker than Saka/Bowen (who was also underutilised) is much less relevant than the question of getting the team set up correctly in the first instance.
3 - you are overconcerned with having an abundance in one position and using that abundance somehow. Southgate should have been rotating the midfield and the right hand side more, that is how you deal with this situation - it creates competition, it gives players time in the team to maintain match sharpness, it gives others rest and it keeps the opposition guessing as to which options may be used.
4 - not really a great system for an aging CF, perhaps a 4-1-4-1 with genuine wingers (Gordon and Bowen) getting to the by-line and crossing in for a CF and attacking midfielders would have got the best out of him. This isn't Southgate's style.
5 - I'm not Pickford's greatest fan, my two biggest criticisms are that he punches a little too much when he could be gathering and he is very slow with his distribution when he has the ball.
I could be wrong but Guardiola seems remarkably unsuited to international management to me. His success is built on two things - being at a club that is able to buy the very best players, and then spending hours and hours and hours on the training ground and in the classroom drilling into them exactly how he wants them to play
You just don't get that time at international level. I reckon there are basically a couple of approaches. You either come up with a relatively simplistic system that is easy for players to adapt to in the short time they are together, or you just give the players freedom to just go out and play and your main focus is motivation and man management.
I can't believe that fans who have seen us not even qualify for tournaments, or finish bottom of a group containing Costa Rica, or lose pathetically to Iceland can be unhappy with a manager who's taken us to two Euro finals, and the semi and quarter finals of the world cup. Bu there you go. Thanks for everything Gareth, I've had some very happy times celebrating England wins under you stewardship. If you choose to walk away now you should do so with your head held high.
There will always be toddler fans who throw tantrums when things don't go their way, best to ignore them.
Comments
England scored 2 goals in the group stage and went home empty handed.
Just like Scotland.
God help me if the England players get a decent manager, they could go all the way.
Would Harry Potter, the former Brighton manager be in with a shout ?
Missed opportunity for me. People get all in a lather about the two young Spanish wingers but forget about the brilliant talent we have (some not even used). Williams is a terrific player but if you give him that much space he is going to produce good service, and Walker gifted him that space. TAA is criticised for his defensive work and rightly so but Walker was week in defence and attack tonight.
Kane sadly has passed his prime in that formation. Shearer spoke earlier in the tournament that when he hit 30 he had to have a player up with him. Makes total sense. Kane has not become a bad player of course not but he is not effective in that formation.
Long and short of it we set up a team to not lose rather than try and go toe to toe with Spain. I think we could have challenged them if we had attacked more with more attacking options from the start. But there you. Missed opportunity again due to our timid nature sadly.
Spain obviously a good side but were they that great no , just negative tactics and sticking with players struggling all tournament. Another manager would have won that and the previous tournament with the players we now have.
I rarely speak to myself but I must correct that. England could do with a magician but I actually had in mind Graham Potter, an ex Wycombe player, who worked wonders for Brighton & Hove Albion and came in for praise from Pep Guardiola..
The best team in the tournament won the title, end of story.
Wonderful analysis from our media mogul 😂😂
Gareth needs a new job
Feel like we were too nice for that type of final. Against Oxford in the play-offs, when we had little of the ball in comparison, we were real niggly sods. Think of a Mourinho team in that situation, one that knows a final is for winning and is willing to be sh*thouses.
In the end, Spain managed to do that side of it and be the best on the ball.
Incredible stat that Kane had one touch in the opponents box across both Euro Finals.
A part of the game epitomised by Cucurella, a player who couldn’t be described as world class but is capable of fouling his way through 90 minutes without sanction and managed last night to create the winning goal, then went on to kill the last couple of minutes of injury time by running into Saka’s arm and getting Saka booked for the privilege. Our dark arts by comparison are as pasty as Dave Carroll.
From the games I’ve seen I couldn’t dispute that. But we could have been so much better. We under performed with the talent we have. End of story.
No one is disputing that we are just saying better management of the players we had at our disposal we would have more and likely matched them . Another chance missed .
Finishing 2nd to the team you acknowledge is the best in the tournament is under-performing?
Victim of his own success or reverting to type and abandoning what got you there? There's a good argument that without Southgate bringing the players together as a group and shielding them from the press at times we'd still be the shambles squad that barely makes the occasional quarter final but it's difficult to also ignore the reluctance to change, the reliance on tried and tested players regardless of form and fitness and how Spain have entirely trashed their tikitaka heritage to get the best out of flying young wingers while we sit back deeper and deeper waiting for the opposition to score before unleashing exciting subs for 30 seconds of attack.
For me I'm grateful but it's time for him to move on, and that's with no guarantee that we suddenly start winning things (even if Kalvin Phillips returns)
I think my post said under performing with the talent we have
But it also acknowledged that Spain were the best team in the tournament
Are you saying that we should have been the best team in the tournament?
In a crazy world, what a wonderful tournament this was.
Men, women, families from every corner of England coming together in unity with men, women and families from every corner of Germany, putting to bed forever the lazy spiteful tabloid stereotype of 'hooliganism'.
Start spreading the news...New York New York (East Rutherford)
Don't look too closely at the Copa America final for that. The "Americas" World cup could be an unprecedented security lockdown.
I'm saying with the players we have available and the resources put into the team we should be the best team in the tournament. Spain have 2 outstanding attackers (note to Kyle Walker) and a central midfielder who pulls the strings. They set up their team knowing that they need to get the ball wide and these talented players will do the business. I don't think they have 11 players better than England.
For all the hype and self congratulation about certain players there are some stand out stats about players that are so much better for their club. Foden zero goal involvements for the whole tournament. How do we turn a player that is so effective for his club into one that is so impotent across a whole tournament?
Southgate has done wonders for our national team but I do feel he has squandered talent in favour of an over-cautious setup.
I disagree. Man for Man I would say we were at least as good as the Spanish team.
The difference was one team set out to win the final.
The other team set out not to lose.
Been that way the entire tournament and why one team had won every one of their games and the other stumbled there way around the Euros.
Its very easy to say we should be the best team at the tournament. Other countries also with outstanding often young talent may disagree. This tournament we had some major issues - perhaps endemic at the moment in the players we have available.
1) We only have one decent left back and he was injured for much of the tournament. Not aware of anyone who could have been selected to fill that role.
2) Our left side attack options are materially inferior to our right
3) We have a wealth of talent in right and centre attacking midfield but hard to see how to get them all into the team.
4) Our CF, with an amazing record, was out of sorts. Back up options (notwithstanding Watkins goal in the SF) are not inspiring.
5) Our GK did nothing wrong but is no more than adequate for me.
Despite all that we made it to our first final on overseas soil - albeit helped by a favourable draw - and have performed better in the last four tournaments than we have ever come remotely close to.
Who knows what players are just about to burst onto the scene that we currently haven't heard of. The next four years could be very exciting. But the likes of Spain, France, Germany, Portugal, Brazil and Argentina may well be able to say the same thing.
If Southgate chooses to leave now, he should leave to a huge collective thank you for what he has done IMHO but I suspect given our culture, he will instead leave to a storm of criticism. Ho hum.
If we really want then to seek to maximise the talent we have, the next manager needs to be the absolute best person available to do the job. That is not for me a run of the mill manager who once had a couple of .decent seasons with Brighton. I hope the FA are gently sounding out Klopp and Guardiola.
Everyone talks about Klopp as though he would usher in a period of unprecedented success but he has a similar failing when it come to big European finals. He's lost 3 champions league finals with Dortmund and Liverpool and a Europa League final with Liverpool.
If only England could come up against the European/World equivalent of Spurs (ie a team that never wins anything) we'd be laughing
Hold on......are "we" the European/World equivalent of Spurs?
Kane has given you the Spurs virus
Regarding your comment on Foden, the answer to his ineffectiveness for England is that he has far better players alongside him at City. He has a world class striker in Haaland and a better fellow attacking midfielder in De Bruyne than we have.
I feel that if Southgate had not shown so much blind faith in Kane throughout the Tournament we could have won this. With our mobile and talented midfield, we needed a mobile striker they could play to. Toney or Watkins would have injected the necessary energy and pace.
Not sure about this.
In Kane, Bellingham, Saka and Foden we have some of the best in the world...at hitting the deck.
In answer to a couple of those points
1 - agreed, biggest weakness in the England squad. I still think that Rico Lewis should have been tried out, did a decent enough job for Pep, albeit a handful of games.
2 - we have Gordon and Eze on the left, neither of who got a look in because Southgate prefers to play both Bellingham and Foden in the same side, hence he played one out of position at any given time to the cost of the balance of the team and to the cost of the attacking threat down the left. Whether or not those two are materially weaker than Saka/Bowen (who was also underutilised) is much less relevant than the question of getting the team set up correctly in the first instance.
3 - you are overconcerned with having an abundance in one position and using that abundance somehow. Southgate should have been rotating the midfield and the right hand side more, that is how you deal with this situation - it creates competition, it gives players time in the team to maintain match sharpness, it gives others rest and it keeps the opposition guessing as to which options may be used.
4 - not really a great system for an aging CF, perhaps a 4-1-4-1 with genuine wingers (Gordon and Bowen) getting to the by-line and crossing in for a CF and attacking midfielders would have got the best out of him. This isn't Southgate's style.
5 - I'm not Pickford's greatest fan, my two biggest criticisms are that he punches a little too much when he could be gathering and he is very slow with his distribution when he has the ball.
A new manager and a quiet word with Bellingham to stop acting like a prima donna and England will probably do better.
I could be wrong but Guardiola seems remarkably unsuited to international management to me. His success is built on two things - being at a club that is able to buy the very best players, and then spending hours and hours and hours on the training ground and in the classroom drilling into them exactly how he wants them to play
You just don't get that time at international level. I reckon there are basically a couple of approaches. You either come up with a relatively simplistic system that is easy for players to adapt to in the short time they are together, or you just give the players freedom to just go out and play and your main focus is motivation and man management.
I can't believe that fans who have seen us not even qualify for tournaments, or finish bottom of a group containing Costa Rica, or lose pathetically to Iceland can be unhappy with a manager who's taken us to two Euro finals, and the semi and quarter finals of the world cup. Bu there you go. Thanks for everything Gareth, I've had some very happy times celebrating England wins under you stewardship. If you choose to walk away now you should do so with your head held high.
There will always be toddler fans who throw tantrums when things don't go their way, best to ignore them.