In a constituency that’s one of the southernmost bricks of the Brexit (formerly red) Wall, I will be holding my nose and voting for the current disappointing iteration of Labour.
Because of our crap voting system, it’s their candidate or Boris Johnson’s former chief whip. No-one else can win.
Sending the Tories packing is the only game in town.
I was away doing my National Service in 1951 and don't recall voting. Had I done so it would have been for the first time. I remember going to John Haire's rally at the Town Hall in 1945 while I was still at school and the huge enthusiasm for change. Not that different from today.
6 thumbs down so far? Labour voters, obviously, lol. So predictable on here. Instead of calling it a politics thread, why not just be honest and call it a Labour love-in thread?
Never voted Labour in my life. Never voted Tory. Haven't voted for a very long time. I'd have liked to have voted for Amy Gallagher as London Mayor but that's because I've got a weird crush on her.
I'd certainly like to see the Greens get more seats - if we had a decent form of PR in this country (Single Transferrable Vote for preference) they would almost undoubtedly have won far more votes over the years. The rise of Reform is considerably less appealing, but if that's who some people want to vote for, who are we to make their votes not count? A true democracy should make every person's vote count equally. However horrible that person is.
If the voting system is to change it should be to the Single Transferable Vote rather than Proportional representation. That was the electorate know they will get one of the candidates standing in the area rather than one from a list to make the national numbers add up.
STV means declaring preferences, and recounts with the candidate with fewest votes each round being eliminated and their votes redistributed on preference of their vote share
Edit: apologies to MDH , just seen your reference to STV above even though it was there for some time. FWIW I don’t think STV would instantly result in more Greens or other minority party. People would be more inclined to vote for them knowing their vote will then transfer to the party/person won’t be “wasted”. In subsequent elections people will know the base level of support for greens etc and then may switch their first preference to them and so the minority parties build up over a few elections
Not at all, from my POV: I'm not even going to express any political opinions. It was just predictable that my innocuous comment would get instant hate. I disagree with you about tactical voting being a necessity: if everyone voted for a party they actually liked instead of bottling it and voting for the less bad of the old firm, the duopoly could be broken and we might have more representative politics.
but a lot of people will do just that by voting for Reform (in their millions) and have no representation whatsoever in Parliament. I fail to see how that would be more representative. Under the current system you could finish second in every constituency, win more votes than any other party and have no MPs
Correct. That's why people need to vote third way so that the big two would be forced into a coalition and the smaller parties could force PR on to the agenda.
As a lifelong democratic socialist, I have real trouble voting for Starmer's Labour (frankly a slightly paler blue/pink version of the Tories), however, down here in Dover they are the only game in town with a realistic chance of ousting the Tory; so I suspect I will hold my nose and bite my tongue and vote for Labour.
I am led to understand by friends who have the ear of Starmer and the NEC that Labour intend to ditch much of the Tory-lite policy crap once elected and drift (more probably lurch) back towards the centre ground; as a political cynic I wait to see it happening.
Regarding the contention there is no money to allow Labour to fulfill their or their supporters ambitions, national economics is not like that of a football club or your household budget, debt is ok provided you can meet the periodic coupon rate from tax revenues plus as the government you can set interest rates and print money. Most things are truly political/philosophical rather than fiscal/economic choices but that distinction was muddied by Thatcher and subsequent PMs.
I am led to understand by friends who have the ear of Starmer and the NEC that Labour intend to ditch much of the Tory-lite policy crap once elected and drift (more probably lurch) back towards the centre ground
No chance.
And it would further undermine the democratic process if they did, even it’s what I would prefer.
Nothing to stop the Gasroom’s Conservatives proudly stating why another five more years of the current government would be a good thing for the country. It’d certainly be interesting to hear.
Random thought after a long drive that included the launch of the Lib Dem manifesto.
Brexit. Not good was it? Polls suggest a majority would support rejoining. Why wouldn’t a party such as the LibDems simply nail their colours to the mast and say a vote for us is a vote to rejoin the EU? Do their leaders not believe in it? Or do leaders of the major parties feel that being out of the EU is better than the status quo?
Comments
In a constituency that’s one of the southernmost bricks of the Brexit (formerly red) Wall, I will be holding my nose and voting for the current disappointing iteration of Labour.
Because of our crap voting system, it’s their candidate or Boris Johnson’s former chief whip. No-one else can win.
Sending the Tories packing is the only game in town.
Anyone who wants Baker / Tories out in Wycombe simply needs to look at this when casting their vote.
I was away doing my National Service in 1951 and don't recall voting. Had I done so it would have been for the first time. I remember going to John Haire's rally at the Town Hall in 1945 while I was still at school and the huge enthusiasm for change. Not that different from today.
6 thumbs down so far? Labour voters, obviously, lol. So predictable on here. Instead of calling it a politics thread, why not just be honest and call it a Labour love-in thread?
Never voted Labour in my life. Never voted Tory. Haven't voted for a very long time. I'd have liked to have voted for Amy Gallagher as London Mayor but that's because I've got a weird crush on her.
Feeling like you have to vote tactically is a sign of a broken electoral system. Our first past the post system is anachronistic and undemocratic.
Would you want Reform & the Greens to have more seats? A chance to win the election? I’m not a fan of relative extremists picking up momentum quickly.
exactly! The very existence of tactical voting as a concept is absurd (and yet under the current system is absolutely the correct thing to do)
The one positive thing about reform getting millions of votes and 1 (at the most) seat is that it will make it blindingly obvious to everyone
ha ha...it's only a politics thread if everyone agrees with you?
I'd certainly like to see the Greens get more seats - if we had a decent form of PR in this country (Single Transferrable Vote for preference) they would almost undoubtedly have won far more votes over the years. The rise of Reform is considerably less appealing, but if that's who some people want to vote for, who are we to make their votes not count? A true democracy should make every person's vote count equally. However horrible that person is.
+1 for PR but that’s not the system we have.
The smartest thing a UK voter can do is vote locally for whoever is likely to affect the outcome of the overall vote to your liking.
If the voting system is to change it should be to the Single Transferable Vote rather than Proportional representation. That was the electorate know they will get one of the candidates standing in the area rather than one from a list to make the national numbers add up.
STV means declaring preferences, and recounts with the candidate with fewest votes each round being eliminated and their votes redistributed on preference of their vote share
Edit: apologies to MDH , just seen your reference to STV above even though it was there for some time. FWIW I don’t think STV would instantly result in more Greens or other minority party. People would be more inclined to vote for them knowing their vote will then transfer to the party/person won’t be “wasted”. In subsequent elections people will know the base level of support for greens etc and then may switch their first preference to them and so the minority parties build up over a few elections
Not at all, from my POV: I'm not even going to express any political opinions. It was just predictable that my innocuous comment would get instant hate. I disagree with you about tactical voting being a necessity: if everyone voted for a party they actually liked instead of bottling it and voting for the less bad of the old firm, the duopoly could be broken and we might have more representative politics.
but a lot of people will do just that by voting for Reform (in their millions) and have no representation whatsoever in Parliament. I fail to see how that would be more representative. Under the current system you could finish second in every constituency, win more votes than any other party and have no MPs
Correct. That's why people need to vote third way so that the big two would be forced into a coalition and the smaller parties could force PR on to the agenda.
We literally had this in the 2010s and the fudge eventually put forward was (disappointingly in my view) roundly rejected.
As a lifelong democratic socialist, I have real trouble voting for Starmer's Labour (frankly a slightly paler blue/pink version of the Tories), however, down here in Dover they are the only game in town with a realistic chance of ousting the Tory; so I suspect I will hold my nose and bite my tongue and vote for Labour.
I am led to understand by friends who have the ear of Starmer and the NEC that Labour intend to ditch much of the Tory-lite policy crap once elected and drift (more probably lurch) back towards the centre ground; as a political cynic I wait to see it happening.
Regarding the contention there is no money to allow Labour to fulfill their or their supporters ambitions, national economics is not like that of a football club or your household budget, debt is ok provided you can meet the periodic coupon rate from tax revenues plus as the government you can set interest rates and print money. Most things are truly political/philosophical rather than fiscal/economic choices but that distinction was muddied by Thatcher and subsequent PMs.
Agree @Erroll_Sims that politics should be shaped by philosophical choices but is currently dominated by technocrats.
I am led to understand by friends who have the ear of Starmer and the NEC that Labour intend to ditch much of the Tory-lite policy crap once elected and drift (more probably lurch) back towards the centre ground
No chance.
And it would further undermine the democratic process if they did, even it’s what I would prefer.
If we get around to the USA election we'll have to call it the 'Orange Man Must Lose' thread
Not sure the more rabid elements of the current Tory cabinet are technocrats
I don't think that the goverment can set interest rates anymore as the mini-budget showed!
Not forgetting mini baby bells
Nothing to stop the Gasroom’s Conservatives proudly stating why another five more years of the current government would be a good thing for the country. It’d certainly be interesting to hear.
Could be shame and embarrassment stopping them I suppose.
The only Gasroom Conservative I can think of is Tory Goon and I don't think he's posted for about fifteen years.
Random thought after a long drive that included the launch of the Lib Dem manifesto.
Brexit. Not good was it? Polls suggest a majority would support rejoining. Why wouldn’t a party such as the LibDems simply nail their colours to the mast and say a vote for us is a vote to rejoin the EU? Do their leaders not believe in it? Or do leaders of the major parties feel that being out of the EU is better than the status quo?
We wouldn’t be able to rejoin on the favourable terms we had. I can see us rejoining eventually, but not in the short-term.
The two main parties are utterly woeful, just centrist, stand for nothing, personality and morality free.
However, Sunak appears to be deliberately trying to lose the election, if it was a football match he'd be investigated for match fixing.