I have a friend who is. He's a good guy. And in no way would I call him prejudiced. His voting intention is based upon wanting to give the Tories a bloody nose, not bringing himself to vote Labour and feeling that the LibDems provide no serious alternative. These are his views and I respect them. I wouldn't call him names for it, I won't consider him to be a Nazi or facist or whatever today's insult it. There are lots out there who consider voting Reform a anti-status quo vote and I hope both major parties listen and act accordingly (and when I say accordingly not do what Cameron did with UKIP in 2016 with knee-jerk politics).
The only thing the main parties can do in response to Reform Ltd. is drag their policies further to the right, demonise the marginalised and dog whistle to the racists, all of which they've both been doing solidly for the past two years. They're both terrified of upsetting the scum.
It's probably just me but I feel that everything here is now irrevocably broken. There's no party really worth voting for and, therefore, I'm seriously considering voting for a candidate whose main policy appears to be to re-open the local tips! Something that could actually be done!
Having said this, I've never voted on the winning side before and, therefore, why break the habit of a lifetime?!
I'm gonna sound like a sanctimonious pr1ck here. Calling people racist and scum marginalises them even more. For WHATEVER reason these people feel they are not being heard on a variety of issues for which immigration is being held as the cause. If you (the major parties, schools, MSM, etc) educate people that there are MANY reasons why the can't get a doctor's appointment, see a dentist, buy a house, etc they might be more willing to engage in discussion. Demonising is the way of division.
I agree with you. I should have put quotes around the "scum" part as I was trying to convey the fear that grips the politicians from their point of view, and we all know they view most of us as scum.
The flip side of that though, is that I don't think it's possible to educate anyone who would consider voting for Reform as evidenced by the fact that they're considering voting for Reform. If they've reached voting age without ever having learned critical thinking, they're not going to start now.
Immigration, xenophobia and race hatred have of course, sadly, dominated the political scene for nearly a decade. The person I mentioned earlier is a confirmed Zionist.
I’m too polite to ask them why they are prepared to vote for someone whose racism is diametrically opposed to their own racism.
We should never disengage with anyone based on single issue politics. I’m not sure anyone takes too much time asking potential reform voter ‘why’. Much the same with Brexit where over 50% of the population voted to leave an organisation that they felt did not reflect their lives and personal issues. To discard vast areas of our society with labels is dangerous. It’s hard as we are now in a world of soundbite politics and alternative facts of course.
The problem as I see it is thta the fear you talk about @drcongo is artificial and created by the media & the suppine compliance of the BBC, the reality is that the vast majority of the voting populace are moderate centrists by nature & inclination if left to their own devices.
My biggest fear is Starmer & his inner circle, they are as "establishment" as the Tories just with a very faint red blush.
They are wedded to austerity, a policy built on a spreadsheet error by 2 Harvard economists & the premise that they propounded has since been shown to be false (as publicised by the wonderful Prof Hannah Fry).
Many of his inner circle are zionist supporters & have been merrily taking Israeli money in the same way Farage & Johnson took Russian money.
Streeting is in the pocket of US healthcare Insurance corporations, so is seeking to privatise the NHS by stealth.
At least he has at long last conceeded what a woman is, something the rest of us have known all along.
My hope is that with a large majority he will lose control of the left & they will resist his more "tory" urges.
There will be a lot of new MPs. Presumably the new intake will be younger and more centrist.
Conversely it will be interesting to see how big the Tory gene pool will be after the election. It will inevitably lurch right, the question is whether Beery Nige crosses the floor and eats them from the inside.
All the parties seem to be backing growth over the next decade. If we don’t see growth in the economy and beyond hope there seems little reason to believe there will be, then austerity is the only plan b from all parties.
Starmer does not represent change. He represents tweaks. The VAT on private schools, non-dom and windfall taxes are likely to be one off boosts but unlikely to make any real difference.
Very easy for people who aren't affected by racism at all to think it isn't an issue, I agree labelling people unfairly doesn't always help but that applies to various groups including immigrants as much as it does racists.
Farage offers nothing newer or more trustworthy than any of the other parties and would make many ordinary people's lives worse if he becomes an influence again before he runs off to cosy up to Trump.
I don't think there is much doubt Labour will win this election and as said above with our political system as it is, it really doesnt much matter how big the majority is once it gets above say 30.
It is worth noting how much of an outlier Britain is here. Italy has already gone "populist", France looks like it may well do similar, Germany is heading the same way despite its history, it may well be that the USA reelects Trump. The surprise here then is perhaps not that Reform is doing OK in the polls but that it is not doing far better. Perhaps it is only our otherwise useless electoral system that is preventing it.
Why is this happening? Well it seems like mankind can't find a way to organise itself such that its people perceive they have a decent quality of life. We can't afford healthcare for our ageing population, we can't find a way to tackle inequality, we have lied to ourselves for too long that we can have great public services and low tax, mankind looks increasingly unlikely to come together to address the climate change crisis and people born in poorer parts of the world are saying "hang on a minute, how come I have to live like this and people in richer countries live the lives they do" and meanwhile the internet conditions peoples thinking by putting them into silos and feeding them often misleading information that fits with their silos prejudices and then the tribes love throwing rocks at each other.
Can a Labour government faced with these massive issues make the UK a noticeable better place than a Conservative one - I suspect not in truth. It can tinker but little more. What does that mean for the future - god knows but I fear it may not be an attractive future. In the mean time - honestly not much we can do so may as well enjoy the football and have a beer.
As a hint of what's to come, Thangam Debbonaire will probably be the new minister for sport in a few weeks time.
“Do you know, I’ve never been to a football or a rugby match, but I know how much it matters to other people,” the Bristol West MP said in an interview on Politics Hub on Sky News with Sophy Ridge.
On the single issue of the NHS the whole system has been abused from the inside and out for years. We take it for granted and have no concept of it's cost of value. Procurement is laughable. Front line inefficiencies are taken as the normal. And on and on. It is so broken I would not know where to start. Anyone who has been in the system in the past 20 or 30 years has seen the problems but no party has ever done anything about it. It is a failed model and unlikely to ever be changed back to it's original form.
Sadly I have to agree with Andy. Great concept but broken. I know good people who have joined in management roles, tried really hard to do stuff professionally, banged their heads against brick balls and inn the end been forced to leave for sake of their own health. What's the alternative from here? No idea.
When there are cries of improvement in efficiency we all agree. What does that realistically entail? The hiring of management or worse management consultants to drive efficiency change. With a net result of sweet FA. Spend any time in any hospital department and you will see where you taxes go. I could write pages. And when it comes to procurement the phrase a fool and his money is easily parted has never been so apt.
People join the NHS with a view to driving change and soon get spat out for their own sake as you say, or worse think 'sod it, I might as well do as others do'.
With regard to procurement it is not just the NHS but the whole of local & national government that suffers under a byzantine set of procurement rules intended to ensure value for money and transparency, but all they do is layer on huge additional costs with no guarantee of quality - see HS2 as an example.
Whilst the NHS has historically delivered this is despite itself, it was always a bit of a dodgy compromise with dentisty & optician services mostly excluded, GPs allowed to self manage, consultants setting their own hours etc. There really were not any halcyon days when it was set up.
Towards the end of Covid the NHS was recruiting an unlimited army of people to help with the vaccine roll out. Paid jobs. A friend of mine was out of work as his industry was closed. He did an interview and unsurprisingly was offered a role within a processing centre of one form of another.
He spent the next six weeks onboarding. This meant training sessions ranging from what he would be doing/could be doing through to diversity training etc. After six paid weeks of training he was told that the centre was being closed and there was no more work. I am sure he was one of hundreds doing the same.
Here is another stupid one. A local x-ray department I had the misfortune of visiting had a hole cut in the wall where you checked in. The hole was only big enough for 1 person. But three people were stationed at the desk doing nothing as they couldn't process anyone. I sat there for a couple of hours as they occasionally changed seats so the other could work.
They don't need more money they need more grown ups spending the money they have. They need proper accountability. They need to be run for the public as if it was private money.
First thing to unpick is who exactly are the WMFA and on what basis do they claim to represent people interested in football who also happen to be of muslim faith.
Comments
Certainly hope not...
I have a friend who is. He's a good guy. And in no way would I call him prejudiced. His voting intention is based upon wanting to give the Tories a bloody nose, not bringing himself to vote Labour and feeling that the LibDems provide no serious alternative. These are his views and I respect them. I wouldn't call him names for it, I won't consider him to be a Nazi or facist or whatever today's insult it. There are lots out there who consider voting Reform a anti-status quo vote and I hope both major parties listen and act accordingly (and when I say accordingly not do what Cameron did with UKIP in 2016 with knee-jerk politics).
The only thing the main parties can do in response to Reform Ltd. is drag their policies further to the right, demonise the marginalised and dog whistle to the racists, all of which they've both been doing solidly for the past two years. They're both terrified of upsetting the scum.
It's probably just me but I feel that everything here is now irrevocably broken. There's no party really worth voting for and, therefore, I'm seriously considering voting for a candidate whose main policy appears to be to re-open the local tips! Something that could actually be done!
Having said this, I've never voted on the winning side before and, therefore, why break the habit of a lifetime?!
I'm gonna sound like a sanctimonious pr1ck here. Calling people racist and scum marginalises them even more. For WHATEVER reason these people feel they are not being heard on a variety of issues for which immigration is being held as the cause. If you (the major parties, schools, MSM, etc) educate people that there are MANY reasons why the can't get a doctor's appointment, see a dentist, buy a house, etc they might be more willing to engage in discussion. Demonising is the way of division.
There seem to be an awful lot of politicians who have no idea what a politician is.
I agree with you. I should have put quotes around the "scum" part as I was trying to convey the fear that grips the politicians from their point of view, and we all know they view most of us as scum.
The flip side of that though, is that I don't think it's possible to educate anyone who would consider voting for Reform as evidenced by the fact that they're considering voting for Reform. If they've reached voting age without ever having learned critical thinking, they're not going to start now.
Immigration, xenophobia and race hatred have of course, sadly, dominated the political scene for nearly a decade. The person I mentioned earlier is a confirmed Zionist.
I’m too polite to ask them why they are prepared to vote for someone whose racism is diametrically opposed to their own racism.
But it’s very tempting.
We should never disengage with anyone based on single issue politics. I’m not sure anyone takes too much time asking potential reform voter ‘why’. Much the same with Brexit where over 50% of the population voted to leave an organisation that they felt did not reflect their lives and personal issues. To discard vast areas of our society with labels is dangerous. It’s hard as we are now in a world of soundbite politics and alternative facts of course.
The problem as I see it is thta the fear you talk about @drcongo is artificial and created by the media & the suppine compliance of the BBC, the reality is that the vast majority of the voting populace are moderate centrists by nature & inclination if left to their own devices.
It amazes me, honestly, that anyone can honestly assess the political situation in the UK and see the extreme right as the main threat.
The story of the next parliament is going to be how much Starmer can resist the illiberal progressives in his own party.
My biggest fear is Starmer & his inner circle, they are as "establishment" as the Tories just with a very faint red blush.
They are wedded to austerity, a policy built on a spreadsheet error by 2 Harvard economists & the premise that they propounded has since been shown to be false (as publicised by the wonderful Prof Hannah Fry).
Many of his inner circle are zionist supporters & have been merrily taking Israeli money in the same way Farage & Johnson took Russian money.
Streeting is in the pocket of US healthcare Insurance corporations, so is seeking to privatise the NHS by stealth.
At least he has at long last conceeded what a woman is, something the rest of us have known all along.
My hope is that with a large majority he will lose control of the left & they will resist his more "tory" urges.
There will be a lot of new MPs. Presumably the new intake will be younger and more centrist.
Conversely it will be interesting to see how big the Tory gene pool will be after the election. It will inevitably lurch right, the question is whether Beery Nige crosses the floor and eats them from the inside.
All the parties seem to be backing growth over the next decade. If we don’t see growth in the economy and beyond hope there seems little reason to believe there will be, then austerity is the only plan b from all parties.
Starmer does not represent change. He represents tweaks. The VAT on private schools, non-dom and windfall taxes are likely to be one off boosts but unlikely to make any real difference.
Very easy for people who aren't affected by racism at all to think it isn't an issue, I agree labelling people unfairly doesn't always help but that applies to various groups including immigrants as much as it does racists.
Farage offers nothing newer or more trustworthy than any of the other parties and would make many ordinary people's lives worse if he becomes an influence again before he runs off to cosy up to Trump.
I don't think there is much doubt Labour will win this election and as said above with our political system as it is, it really doesnt much matter how big the majority is once it gets above say 30.
It is worth noting how much of an outlier Britain is here. Italy has already gone "populist", France looks like it may well do similar, Germany is heading the same way despite its history, it may well be that the USA reelects Trump. The surprise here then is perhaps not that Reform is doing OK in the polls but that it is not doing far better. Perhaps it is only our otherwise useless electoral system that is preventing it.
Why is this happening? Well it seems like mankind can't find a way to organise itself such that its people perceive they have a decent quality of life. We can't afford healthcare for our ageing population, we can't find a way to tackle inequality, we have lied to ourselves for too long that we can have great public services and low tax, mankind looks increasingly unlikely to come together to address the climate change crisis and people born in poorer parts of the world are saying "hang on a minute, how come I have to live like this and people in richer countries live the lives they do" and meanwhile the internet conditions peoples thinking by putting them into silos and feeding them often misleading information that fits with their silos prejudices and then the tribes love throwing rocks at each other.
Can a Labour government faced with these massive issues make the UK a noticeable better place than a Conservative one - I suspect not in truth. It can tinker but little more. What does that mean for the future - god knows but I fear it may not be an attractive future. In the mean time - honestly not much we can do so may as well enjoy the football and have a beer.
As a hint of what's to come, Thangam Debbonaire will probably be the new minister for sport in a few weeks time.
“Do you know, I’ve never been to a football or a rugby match, but I know how much it matters to other people,” the Bristol West MP said in an interview on Politics Hub on Sky News with Sophy Ridge.
On the single issue of the NHS the whole system has been abused from the inside and out for years. We take it for granted and have no concept of it's cost of value. Procurement is laughable. Front line inefficiencies are taken as the normal. And on and on. It is so broken I would not know where to start. Anyone who has been in the system in the past 20 or 30 years has seen the problems but no party has ever done anything about it. It is a failed model and unlikely to ever be changed back to it's original form.
Sadly I have to agree with Andy. Great concept but broken. I know good people who have joined in management roles, tried really hard to do stuff professionally, banged their heads against brick balls and inn the end been forced to leave for sake of their own health. What's the alternative from here? No idea.
When there are cries of improvement in efficiency we all agree. What does that realistically entail? The hiring of management or worse management consultants to drive efficiency change. With a net result of sweet FA. Spend any time in any hospital department and you will see where you taxes go. I could write pages. And when it comes to procurement the phrase a fool and his money is easily parted has never been so apt.
People join the NHS with a view to driving change and soon get spat out for their own sake as you say, or worse think 'sod it, I might as well do as others do'.
With regard to procurement it is not just the NHS but the whole of local & national government that suffers under a byzantine set of procurement rules intended to ensure value for money and transparency, but all they do is layer on huge additional costs with no guarantee of quality - see HS2 as an example.
Whilst the NHS has historically delivered this is despite itself, it was always a bit of a dodgy compromise with dentisty & optician services mostly excluded, GPs allowed to self manage, consultants setting their own hours etc. There really were not any halcyon days when it was set up.
Definition of a Management Consultant: Someone who borrows your watch, and then charges you for telling you the time.
Definition of an Accountant: Someone who comes down from the foothills after the battle is over, to kill off the wounded.
Management consultancy is mansplaining and getting paid for it.
The fundamental issue with the NHS is it needs more money.
There are many other fundamental issues with the NHS too Chris.
Example 1 of an infinite amount of examples.
Towards the end of Covid the NHS was recruiting an unlimited army of people to help with the vaccine roll out. Paid jobs. A friend of mine was out of work as his industry was closed. He did an interview and unsurprisingly was offered a role within a processing centre of one form of another.
He spent the next six weeks onboarding. This meant training sessions ranging from what he would be doing/could be doing through to diversity training etc. After six paid weeks of training he was told that the centre was being closed and there was no more work. I am sure he was one of hundreds doing the same.
Here is another stupid one. A local x-ray department I had the misfortune of visiting had a hole cut in the wall where you checked in. The hole was only big enough for 1 person. But three people were stationed at the desk doing nothing as they couldn't process anyone. I sat there for a couple of hours as they occasionally changed seats so the other could work.
They don't need more money they need more grown ups spending the money they have. They need proper accountability. They need to be run for the public as if it was private money.
Politics related to WWFC spotted on Facebook
The elephant in the thread
Poor Joe - I honestly don't know what he did to deserve this? Can anyone enlighten me?
There's a lot to unpick there.
First thing to unpick is who exactly are the WMFA and on what basis do they claim to represent people interested in football who also happen to be of muslim faith.