One potential reading of the Ravazolli situation is that he's been offered a contract but told we'll be signing another keeper this summer and he'll have to fight to stay as our #1. Therefore he's now waiting to see what other offers come in and whether there will be another club where he's more likely to start.
Purely speculation of my part, but it seems very feasible he won't want to sign on for a season warming the bench now he's had a taste of first team football.
I suspect Ravizzoli has been offered similar terms to his last deal, i.e. wages that would suit a back up keeper with very limited league experience. Not unreasonably he's probably now pushing for the sort of salary Stryjek was on when he signed his fresh deal last summer. And again, not unreasonably, the club have probably decided to see who else is available in the market before offering those sort of terms to Franco.
My reading of the Stryjek statement is that his contract was probably ripped up, allowing him to seek pastures new. I can't believe our players' player of the season last year wouldn't have signed a multi year deal then, when he was riding high. As part of any mutual agreement to terminate early the club probably had to agree a form of words that would let Max leave with some shreds of dignity, even if it's absolute codswallop.
As for whether he ends up in the Championship. Maybe. But the last few matches he played at Crewe suggested he might have to fall a little lower down the pyramid to reach his natural level.
Personally I would not want to leave somewhere that had demonstrated an openness to giving backup keepers a chance to prove themselves and I can’t see him getting a similar opportunity at the same level. Perhaps if he were willing to drop down a level he might get guaranteed first team action, maybe not even then. I expect and I hope that Rav will be with us next season.
I know you don't like Max, @aloysius, and each to their own, but wherever people fall on the Max / Ravs debate, it should be acknowledged that Max conceded 43 goals in 42 league games last season, which would extrapolate out to 47 conceded over a 46 game season, good for joint 5th best in the division (we finished 9th).
That was also in a season where we had the upheaval of a new manager coming in - before the change, Max conceded 21 in 29 games, which would extrapolate out to 33 conceded over a season and be the best defensive record in the entire division! Even this season, he only conceded 20 goals in his last 18 league games once the team had settled somewhat and the 5ATB was eventually ditched (in the midst of that run, I think), which would extrapolate out to 51 conceded and joint 6th best in the division.
I know defence is a team game, and our defenders often make goalies look good, but to act as though Max is an incapable L1 goalkeeper when he had a stretch under GA of having the best goals against per game in the division and another very good run this season once the team had settled a bit, does not really do justice to his service for us.
@Shev we can all cherrypick the period in which to calculate statistics to show our favoured players in good light. I argued at the time that Max's failings as a keeper were being masked by the brilliance of Mawson and Tafazolli, which meant that opposition players were being forced to shoot from distance, playing to Max's one strength. When Mawson left Max became more exposed and the form slipped. But even during the purple patch his distribution was woeful and when he failed to gather at corners he was very vulnerable.
If you want to play the statistics game though, let's look at this season and compare Max and Franco's record head to head across the campaign.
Average points per game: Max 1.3, Franco 2.1
Win percentage: Max 32%, Franco 62%
Clean sheet percentage: Max 23%, Franco 54%
Average goals conceded per game: Max 1.3, Franco 0.8
I know which one I'd prefer in the squad next season.
I wasn't arguing that Ravs is awful - I was protesting the disrespectful categorization of Max's time with us. I think you know that comparing the two halves of this uneven, transitional season is going to victimize whoever played the first half.
You liking Ravs better is obviously a perfectly valid opinion. I just don't understand the need to constantly stick the boot in to a player who served us well.
I’m not sure if Max is still at Crewe for the playoffs. He conceded quite a few goals whilst on the emergency loan but I’ve no idea whether one or both of their first choice goalkeepers has recovered from injury.
If Max is still there, he will be very much in the shop window, especially if they get to Wembley.
I was very impressed with “his” farewell statement. Articulacy was never an obvious strength but that statement was both polished and gracious.
It's not that I don't like Max per se - I've never met him and he may be a wonderful man. I've just always felt the need to counter some of the over-enthusiastic judgements made by some on here. People have often said he's the best keeper we have since Taylor, that he's destined for a career in the Championship. I've never quite seen what people base that on. He always seemed a very limited keeper who was able to hide his multiple weaknesses in his early patch through the fortune of playing behind an exceptional and well drilled defence. Someone whose weaknesses would always provide a drag on our chances of success. I was amazed I was the only one seeing it. I'm sure my language was a little harsh at times and I'm glad some others have come round to my thinking as those weaknesses became more and more conspicuous.
Look, I get the emotional desire that many have to bring in a keeper with a similar mentality to the Hydes and Taylors of our early glory days. I just felt that Max was not in their league and people were only pretending to themselves that he was. Fundamentally, Max isn't what people want him to be. I'm glad that Matt saw that and it wasn't just me.
Absolutely delighted so many players are staying for next season. You grow fond of these players over time and it's never nice to see them go. Fingers crossed the remaining 3 decide to stay and we've got the base of a very decent squad indeed.
Sprinkle a few new signings and quality loannees in and I'm firing up the promotion bandwagon. All are welcome to jump aboard
On Max, I find it interesting that he has gone from being players’ player last season to only having three current players comment on his goodbye message on instagram. Young, Pattenden and McCarthy . This is far fewer than most of those who leave tend to receive. It suggests a huge drop in popularity at the club.
I think there is no smoke without fire in this situation. It reminds me of that period where Grimmer would hammer Max for his lack of communication in front of the terrace during the challenging spell of one win in 17.
I agree with the poster who suggests Rav will have been told he’s not guaranteed first choice and that the club intend to sign a new goalkeeper.
I can understand you feeling Max overrated (we all have players we feel that way about), though I always think about the fact that his own teammates voted him Players' Player of the Season last year - so they must have been missing something too!
Either way, none of this is meant to be personal in any way (as someone said on a different thread, it is good to hear/read different perspectives), more a defence of Max. If we go with Ravs, I'll be fully behind him!
I think Rav really grew in confidence the more he played. Either that or I did. Whichever, the last few games of the season I wasn't remotely worried about him not coming for crosses.
Max seemed to lose his mojo for some reason and I think there needs to be a lot of credit given to the scouts and GK coach(es) who picked up Rav and made him into a very decent league 1 keeper (as proved by his stats).
Bishop wanted to join us, he did pre-season training at Marlow Road, rented accommodation locally and was all set to start our first league game when Man.Utd. pulled the plug on the deal one week before the start of the season. It was out of Wycombe’s control.
Comments
I'd say he's better than Allsopp, and he's pretty much been In the Championship since he left us
One potential reading of the Ravazolli situation is that he's been offered a contract but told we'll be signing another keeper this summer and he'll have to fight to stay as our #1. Therefore he's now waiting to see what other offers come in and whether there will be another club where he's more likely to start.
Purely speculation of my part, but it seems very feasible he won't want to sign on for a season warming the bench now he's had a taste of first team football.
Looks quite a reasonable reading. Reckon we will sign two new first team keepers this summer.
I suspect Ravizzoli has been offered similar terms to his last deal, i.e. wages that would suit a back up keeper with very limited league experience. Not unreasonably he's probably now pushing for the sort of salary Stryjek was on when he signed his fresh deal last summer. And again, not unreasonably, the club have probably decided to see who else is available in the market before offering those sort of terms to Franco.
My reading of the Stryjek statement is that his contract was probably ripped up, allowing him to seek pastures new. I can't believe our players' player of the season last year wouldn't have signed a multi year deal then, when he was riding high. As part of any mutual agreement to terminate early the club probably had to agree a form of words that would let Max leave with some shreds of dignity, even if it's absolute codswallop.
As for whether he ends up in the Championship. Maybe. But the last few matches he played at Crewe suggested he might have to fall a little lower down the pyramid to reach his natural level.
Personally I would not want to leave somewhere that had demonstrated an openness to giving backup keepers a chance to prove themselves and I can’t see him getting a similar opportunity at the same level. Perhaps if he were willing to drop down a level he might get guaranteed first team action, maybe not even then. I expect and I hope that Rav will be with us next season.
I know you don't like Max, @aloysius, and each to their own, but wherever people fall on the Max / Ravs debate, it should be acknowledged that Max conceded 43 goals in 42 league games last season, which would extrapolate out to 47 conceded over a 46 game season, good for joint 5th best in the division (we finished 9th).
That was also in a season where we had the upheaval of a new manager coming in - before the change, Max conceded 21 in 29 games, which would extrapolate out to 33 conceded over a season and be the best defensive record in the entire division! Even this season, he only conceded 20 goals in his last 18 league games once the team had settled somewhat and the 5ATB was eventually ditched (in the midst of that run, I think), which would extrapolate out to 51 conceded and joint 6th best in the division.
I know defence is a team game, and our defenders often make goalies look good, but to act as though Max is an incapable L1 goalkeeper when he had a stretch under GA of having the best goals against per game in the division and another very good run this season once the team had settled a bit, does not really do justice to his service for us.
@Shev we can all cherrypick the period in which to calculate statistics to show our favoured players in good light. I argued at the time that Max's failings as a keeper were being masked by the brilliance of Mawson and Tafazolli, which meant that opposition players were being forced to shoot from distance, playing to Max's one strength. When Mawson left Max became more exposed and the form slipped. But even during the purple patch his distribution was woeful and when he failed to gather at corners he was very vulnerable.
If you want to play the statistics game though, let's look at this season and compare Max and Franco's record head to head across the campaign.
Average points per game: Max 1.3, Franco 2.1
Win percentage: Max 32%, Franco 62%
Clean sheet percentage: Max 23%, Franco 54%
Average goals conceded per game: Max 1.3, Franco 0.8
I know which one I'd prefer in the squad next season.
I wasn't arguing that Ravs is awful - I was protesting the disrespectful categorization of Max's time with us. I think you know that comparing the two halves of this uneven, transitional season is going to victimize whoever played the first half.
You liking Ravs better is obviously a perfectly valid opinion. I just don't understand the need to constantly stick the boot in to a player who served us well.
I’m not sure if Max is still at Crewe for the playoffs. He conceded quite a few goals whilst on the emergency loan but I’ve no idea whether one or both of their first choice goalkeepers has recovered from injury.
If Max is still there, he will be very much in the shop window, especially if they get to Wembley.
I was very impressed with “his” farewell statement. Articulacy was never an obvious strength but that statement was both polished and gracious.
It's not that I don't like Max per se - I've never met him and he may be a wonderful man. I've just always felt the need to counter some of the over-enthusiastic judgements made by some on here. People have often said he's the best keeper we have since Taylor, that he's destined for a career in the Championship. I've never quite seen what people base that on. He always seemed a very limited keeper who was able to hide his multiple weaknesses in his early patch through the fortune of playing behind an exceptional and well drilled defence. Someone whose weaknesses would always provide a drag on our chances of success. I was amazed I was the only one seeing it. I'm sure my language was a little harsh at times and I'm glad some others have come round to my thinking as those weaknesses became more and more conspicuous.
Look, I get the emotional desire that many have to bring in a keeper with a similar mentality to the Hydes and Taylors of our early glory days. I just felt that Max was not in their league and people were only pretending to themselves that he was. Fundamentally, Max isn't what people want him to be. I'm glad that Matt saw that and it wasn't just me.
@aloysius There were no less than 8 versions of “probably”, “might”, “I suspect”, “maybe”, etc, in your initial post...
Just an observation.
Absolutely delighted so many players are staying for next season. You grow fond of these players over time and it's never nice to see them go. Fingers crossed the remaining 3 decide to stay and we've got the base of a very decent squad indeed.
Sprinkle a few new signings and quality loannees in and I'm firing up the promotion bandwagon. All are welcome to jump aboard
On Max, I find it interesting that he has gone from being players’ player last season to only having three current players comment on his goodbye message on instagram. Young, Pattenden and McCarthy . This is far fewer than most of those who leave tend to receive. It suggests a huge drop in popularity at the club.
I think there is no smoke without fire in this situation. It reminds me of that period where Grimmer would hammer Max for his lack of communication in front of the terrace during the challenging spell of one win in 17.
I agree with the poster who suggests Rav will have been told he’s not guaranteed first choice and that the club intend to sign a new goalkeeper.
I'm riding a skateboard while holding onto the back of the bandwagon. Gonna be a wild ride.
I'm on board - but just saying farewell to that photo of Nigel and Dale with their signed shirts... 😪
I can understand you feeling Max overrated (we all have players we feel that way about), though I always think about the fact that his own teammates voted him Players' Player of the Season last year - so they must have been missing something too!
Either way, none of this is meant to be personal in any way (as someone said on a different thread, it is good to hear/read different perspectives), more a defence of Max. If we go with Ravs, I'll be fully behind him!
I think Rav really grew in confidence the more he played. Either that or I did. Whichever, the last few games of the season I wasn't remotely worried about him not coming for crosses.
Max seemed to lose his mojo for some reason and I think there needs to be a lot of credit given to the scouts and GK coach(es) who picked up Rav and made him into a very decent league 1 keeper (as proved by his stats).
Maybe Bishop will finally sign to compete for the #1 shirt!
Our keeper issues are still a direct result of that shambles.
Bishop wanted to join us, he did pre-season training at Marlow Road, rented accommodation locally and was all set to start our first league game when Man.Utd. pulled the plug on the deal one week before the start of the season. It was out of Wycombe’s control.
He’s contracted until 2026 but I would be happy if we could get him on a season long loan. Not sure he’s even featured for Sunderland since his move?
Wasn't he Sergio Torres's recommendation or was that a coincidence
Both played for Eastbourne didn't they
Both born in Mar Del Plata, think he said he took him to Eastbourne too.
I don't blame the club at all, but shambles is the right word!
It's great to see United do so badly after the way they treated us. Long may it continue.
For goalkeeping nightmares to cost them millions in lost revenue because of missing the CL knockouts is very satisfying karma.
Their willingness to back out of a deal that late and derail our early season is another example of PL arrogance.
Did we ever get a reason for them backing out? Not like he was actually going to play for them
Ten Hag said he couldn't leave. If I remember correctly.