And it's especially ironic when it's from the same individual who, less than a couple of hours ago, gave a lecture about how "twattish" it would be to try and wind people up. Maybe I shouldn't react, but it's got unnecessarily personal.
Complete and utter nonsense by @flymofrank here I'm afraid. I wasn't old enough to enjoy the 2001 FA Cup run properly, but our night at Villa Park in the replay was superb. There's only one set of clubs that this favours and that's the big PL clubs who have no interest in mixing with us mere peasants.
I see they have also voted to extend their Summer break to allow players to get over fixture congestion... I suspect this space will only be filled with more of their pointless money-spinning pre season tours of USA and Asia.
The Tranmere chair and others on twitter have confirmed that the EFL were not consulted on this at all. A complete farce.
I’m not surprised that the FA have capitulated on this issue and as a side note I think calling another poster an old prick is out of order and an apology would be appropriate. I’ve been the target of plenty of insults on here but never been called an old prick which ironically is exactly what I am. Come on flymofrank, you’re better than that.
Quite a few angles to this. On the one hand my guess is that it will increase the likelihood of upsets, although I accept it is hard to predict and I may be wrong.
There's also some upside to be considered from ending replays. When we're playing Crewe (insert other similar clubs here) in R1 I think the value of the replay is slim to non-existent for both sides. The fans don't really want the extra game, nor do players. Might also get a slight increase in crowd given the result is guaranteed and there's a chance of extra gameplay anf penalties.
The downside of course is that you clearly do want the possibility of replays for financial reasons when you're playing a team higher up the pyramid. Same goes for non-league teams playing the mighty Wanderers.
On balance then, it is pretty clearly worse for smaller teams and better for bigger clubs. Which in my view is bad news if we want to keep the pyramid competitive and offer clubs the chance of an unexpected windfall.
I think the interesting next question is what the FA and EFL are prepared to do to push back against the PL. It is quite obvious the PL prioritises its own league first, followed by the competitiveness of it's teams in Europe. Domestic cups are well down the list so they'll continue to chip away where they can negotiate reduced scope for domestic cups in order to allow them to increase their focus on their main priorities. Logical next steps for the PL might include requesting the abolishment of the League Cup, allowing for later entry in FA Cup/League Cup (particularly for sides in Europe) and perhaps even seeding being introduced in draws. All would be to the detriment of domestic cups and smaller teams in my view.
I suspect PL supporters would tolerate a very low floor in regard to how far they'd be willing to see domestic cups diminished. But they'd probably object if the FA Cup ceased to exist and/or they didn't enter. They may take a similar view if the League Cup were ended. With that in mind if the EFL/FA want to get serious, they need a more aggressive negotiating position where they're prepared to withdraw the invitation to participate in domestic cups fr PL teams. In any negotiation there has to be a line where you're willing to walk away and reject the offer from the other side. Otherwise you eventually end up with nothing.
I think we're close to that point now, and maybe beyond it (e.g the participation of u-21 sides in the EFL trophy is a joke and a total insult to FL clubs in my view, almost entirely undermining the competition).
The more I think about it I think there's merit in the EFL setting out a position that they intend to boycott the FA Cup, disinvite the PL from the League Cup (and invite the National League in their place), and remove PL u-21s from the EFL trophy as a starting point for renegotiation.
The nuclear option would be to threaten to sever ties with the PL (refusing the accept relegated teams and not sending up promoted teams). I don't think it would ever come to that but it would send a clear message if that were on the table.
Not in favour of scrapping replays - I'd much rather that international breaks for friendlies were reduced. But if we are going in this direction an innovation I'd like to see is that the lower placed team at the time of the draw gets to decide where the tie is played.
Good that R5 is moving back to Sat and the final day won’t see any other top level matches played.
Shame that they couldn’t keep replays for at least rounds 1 & 2.
It will stop bigger teams playing for a draw when struggling away at a small team to get the match back at their ground, so almost certainly will increase chances of upsets.
I can't be bothered to wade through a ton of posts where old people shake their fist at a cloud and moan about young people liking different aspects of the game to them, as that's been covered in every other thread on the gasroom already. So forgive me if it's already been covered, but doesn't this absolutely fuck over the little guys for whom a replay away at a big club was a payday worth drawing for?
I'm delighted to admit that I hugged a man at Selhurst Park who I'd never seen before and have never seen since. An amazing game, inspiring complete delirium.
But part of the reason for that was the Saturday game that went before: the complete saga was astonishing - going two-down at home against a superior side, using all our subs early to try and get back into it, coming back in unlikely fashion with a dubious goal, playing the last 15 minutes effectively with 10 men after Ted got injured. Then going to Selhurst and coming back from every setback imaginable (falling behind repeatedly, having Andy Baird outrageously crocked, getting Simmo sent off, conceding a penalty at the end of 90 mins) and overcoming them all to win it 21-20 on penalties. It's the drama of the tie, extended across multiple games, an epic told over multiple volumes if you like, rather than a 90 mins + ET + penalties short story.
Holding on for dear life against an onslaught to a bigger team knowing a replay and potential to either get a game/big pay day at a big ground, or get a big team back to your ground is one of those golden moments of football.
Wouldn't quite be the same if you knew you had to struggle through another 30mins of extra time and pens.
Does that still happen? The only ones I can remember are Farnborough switching to Arsenal and (I think) Yeading switching to Newcastle? I seem to remember they even played a big home tie at Loftus Road.
Not a great take from @flymofrank in my opinion, but each to their own. Although marooned on a raft with only @bargepole for company is a sobering moment for any poster.
On the subject of modern developments, I watched my first ever VARified match in-person at the weekend (Athletic Bilbao vs Villarreal). What a horrific pile of old bollocks that was. Impossible to tell what was happening in the stadium and it seemed to just be someone in a studio poking their nose in and imposing decisions that didn't need making.
The EFL Cup is the one which needs the biggest revamp. Maybe bin off the EFL trophy, get rid of the U21s (perhaps PL teams altogether?), and use the extra match slots to have a group stage in the EFL Cup, and the winner of the overall tournament goes into the Conference League?
Ultimately, the PL is not the EFL, so there is a strong argument for having a competition that only EFL clubs enter, with a serious carrot at the end of it. Can you imagine if we played Leeds or Leicester instead of Posh at Wembley a couple of Sundays ago, with a prize on offer of a Europa Conference League spot?
Just watched it again and now of course it’s you. Your cry of ‘They will not lie down’ should be put on a flag or banner. That was all of us that night.
At Selhurst Park about half a dozen of my row had a spontaneous, jumping group hug with a similar number from the row in front (we didn't know them) and we all fell over
Still, wish we'd just had penalties on the Saturday
They clearly know an awful lot more ABOUT football than I ever could, but to not recognise the emotional capacity that replays can sometimes generate demonstrates (in my old, wizened, patronising view) an inability to fully FEEL football as a supporter).
Never in the history of Wycombe Wanderers has 90 minutes of football meant so much at a molecular level to a Wycombe Wanderers supporter as at a very muddy 110 x 75 yards field on a cold night in February(?) in Worcester which was hosting the third replay of a third(?) round FA Trophy match between Wycombe and Leek Town.
(And Selhurst Park - arguably the greatest ever experience as a supporter - mattered MORE for there being that first act at Adams Park)
Comments
And it's especially ironic when it's from the same individual who, less than a couple of hours ago, gave a lecture about how "twattish" it would be to try and wind people up. Maybe I shouldn't react, but it's got unnecessarily personal.
Complete and utter nonsense by @flymofrank here I'm afraid. I wasn't old enough to enjoy the 2001 FA Cup run properly, but our night at Villa Park in the replay was superb. There's only one set of clubs that this favours and that's the big PL clubs who have no interest in mixing with us mere peasants.
I see they have also voted to extend their Summer break to allow players to get over fixture congestion... I suspect this space will only be filled with more of their pointless money-spinning pre season tours of USA and Asia.
The Tranmere chair and others on twitter have confirmed that the EFL were not consulted on this at all. A complete farce.
I’m not surprised that the FA have capitulated on this issue and as a side note I think calling another poster an old prick is out of order and an apology would be appropriate. I’ve been the target of plenty of insults on here but never been called an old prick which ironically is exactly what I am. Come on flymofrank, you’re better than that.
Hahaha, really? Maybe when the poster in question apologies for their repeated insults at me.
Quite a few angles to this. On the one hand my guess is that it will increase the likelihood of upsets, although I accept it is hard to predict and I may be wrong.
There's also some upside to be considered from ending replays. When we're playing Crewe (insert other similar clubs here) in R1 I think the value of the replay is slim to non-existent for both sides. The fans don't really want the extra game, nor do players. Might also get a slight increase in crowd given the result is guaranteed and there's a chance of extra gameplay anf penalties.
The downside of course is that you clearly do want the possibility of replays for financial reasons when you're playing a team higher up the pyramid. Same goes for non-league teams playing the mighty Wanderers.
On balance then, it is pretty clearly worse for smaller teams and better for bigger clubs. Which in my view is bad news if we want to keep the pyramid competitive and offer clubs the chance of an unexpected windfall.
I think the interesting next question is what the FA and EFL are prepared to do to push back against the PL. It is quite obvious the PL prioritises its own league first, followed by the competitiveness of it's teams in Europe. Domestic cups are well down the list so they'll continue to chip away where they can negotiate reduced scope for domestic cups in order to allow them to increase their focus on their main priorities. Logical next steps for the PL might include requesting the abolishment of the League Cup, allowing for later entry in FA Cup/League Cup (particularly for sides in Europe) and perhaps even seeding being introduced in draws. All would be to the detriment of domestic cups and smaller teams in my view.
I suspect PL supporters would tolerate a very low floor in regard to how far they'd be willing to see domestic cups diminished. But they'd probably object if the FA Cup ceased to exist and/or they didn't enter. They may take a similar view if the League Cup were ended. With that in mind if the EFL/FA want to get serious, they need a more aggressive negotiating position where they're prepared to withdraw the invitation to participate in domestic cups fr PL teams. In any negotiation there has to be a line where you're willing to walk away and reject the offer from the other side. Otherwise you eventually end up with nothing.
I think we're close to that point now, and maybe beyond it (e.g the participation of u-21 sides in the EFL trophy is a joke and a total insult to FL clubs in my view, almost entirely undermining the competition).
The more I think about it I think there's merit in the EFL setting out a position that they intend to boycott the FA Cup, disinvite the PL from the League Cup (and invite the National League in their place), and remove PL u-21s from the EFL trophy as a starting point for renegotiation.
The nuclear option would be to threaten to sever ties with the PL (refusing the accept relegated teams and not sending up promoted teams). I don't think it would ever come to that but it would send a clear message if that were on the table.
Not in favour of scrapping replays - I'd much rather that international breaks for friendlies were reduced. But if we are going in this direction an innovation I'd like to see is that the lower placed team at the time of the draw gets to decide where the tie is played.
Mixed feelings on this.
Good that R5 is moving back to Sat and the final day won’t see any other top level matches played.
Shame that they couldn’t keep replays for at least rounds 1 & 2.
It will stop bigger teams playing for a draw when struggling away at a small team to get the match back at their ground, so almost certainly will increase chances of upsets.
I can't be bothered to wade through a ton of posts where old people shake their fist at a cloud and moan about young people liking different aspects of the game to them, as that's been covered in every other thread on the gasroom already. So forgive me if it's already been covered, but doesn't this absolutely fuck over the little guys for whom a replay away at a big club was a payday worth drawing for?
yes it does
It’s scrapped replays and pre season games in Jakarta and a 32 team club World Cup that sticks in the draw isn’t it?
not just money for the clubs either. Players who might never again get a chance to play at a stadium so big, in front of a crowd so big
Screaming gibberish would be one of my normal commentaries, on this occasion it was screaming biased gibberish-especially during the penalty shootout!
I'm delighted to admit that I hugged a man at Selhurst Park who I'd never seen before and have never seen since. An amazing game, inspiring complete delirium.
But part of the reason for that was the Saturday game that went before: the complete saga was astonishing - going two-down at home against a superior side, using all our subs early to try and get back into it, coming back in unlikely fashion with a dubious goal, playing the last 15 minutes effectively with 10 men after Ted got injured. Then going to Selhurst and coming back from every setback imaginable (falling behind repeatedly, having Andy Baird outrageously crocked, getting Simmo sent off, conceding a penalty at the end of 90 mins) and overcoming them all to win it 21-20 on penalties. It's the drama of the tie, extended across multiple games, an epic told over multiple volumes if you like, rather than a 90 mins + ET + penalties short story.
Inevitable, but not great.
Holding on for dear life against an onslaught to a bigger team knowing a replay and potential to either get a game/big pay day at a big ground, or get a big team back to your ground is one of those golden moments of football.
Wouldn't quite be the same if you knew you had to struggle through another 30mins of extra time and pens.
Yeah, seems the opposite to me.
You're being denied memories.
Only football brings that scenario in your first 7 words up doesn't it!
Not ashamed to admit I had the exact same in the Frank Adams stadium a few years ago.
Think it was one of our late comebacks. Upon levelling up late on, myself and the random stranger looked each other..but thought better of it.
Upon scoring the winner in the last minute, it was full on hugging 😂
"I'm delighted to admit that I hugged"?
Needed a few more words really 😎
Will this no replay change lead to the dreaded request from smaller clubs to play at the bigger club's ground?
Those are utter romance killers.
Does that still happen? The only ones I can remember are Farnborough switching to Arsenal and (I think) Yeading switching to Newcastle? I seem to remember they even played a big home tie at Loftus Road.
Not a great take from @flymofrank in my opinion, but each to their own. Although marooned on a raft with only @bargepole for company is a sobering moment for any poster.
On the subject of modern developments, I watched my first ever VARified match in-person at the weekend (Athletic Bilbao vs Villarreal). What a horrific pile of old bollocks that was. Impossible to tell what was happening in the stadium and it seemed to just be someone in a studio poking their nose in and imposing decisions that didn't need making.
I really wouldn't want to watch that every week.
Point of order, our playoff final v Sunderland operated with VAR.
The EFL Cup is the one which needs the biggest revamp. Maybe bin off the EFL trophy, get rid of the U21s (perhaps PL teams altogether?), and use the extra match slots to have a group stage in the EFL Cup, and the winner of the overall tournament goes into the Conference League?
Ultimately, the PL is not the EFL, so there is a strong argument for having a competition that only EFL clubs enter, with a serious carrot at the end of it. Can you imagine if we played Leeds or Leicester instead of Posh at Wembley a couple of Sundays ago, with a prize on offer of a Europa Conference League spot?
Just watched it again and now of course it’s you. Your cry of ‘They will not lie down’ should be put on a flag or banner. That was all of us that night.
I hugged @glasshalffull at Filbert St
Not a replay of course, but since we're confessing
If you were in the upper tier no one went un-hugged
Unfortunately 'Hug-Gate' doesn't scan as a scandal.
I also hugged a complete stranger at Filbert St, never seen him again. FA Cup does that to you
At Selhurst Park about half a dozen of my row had a spontaneous, jumping group hug with a similar number from the row in front (we didn't know them) and we all fell over
Still, wish we'd just had penalties on the Saturday
I just feel sorry for @flymofrank
They clearly know an awful lot more ABOUT football than I ever could, but to not recognise the emotional capacity that replays can sometimes generate demonstrates (in my old, wizened, patronising view) an inability to fully FEEL football as a supporter).
Never in the history of Wycombe Wanderers has 90 minutes of football meant so much at a molecular level to a Wycombe Wanderers supporter as at a very muddy 110 x 75 yards field on a cold night in February(?) in Worcester which was hosting the third replay of a third(?) round FA Trophy match between Wycombe and Leek Town.
(And Selhurst Park - arguably the greatest ever experience as a supporter - mattered MORE for there being that first act at Adams Park)