As it is late on St. Patrick's day, I will resist temptation.
Except to say, the puzzling decision of ex-Chairmen and ex-board directors (read communique issued by Trust ) wishing to remain anonymous, whose sole interest was to protect the club, at time of purchase of training ground and whose intentions were definitely not (phew) to make an absolute shedload (read the communique issued by Trust re: Item 4) sounded almost too good to be true at the time.
Given 'anonymous' investors/angels paid £350K March/April 2013, plus rent on 10 year lease March 2013, for the Couhigs to look at (sellers price), £50mn training ground facility makes one wonder what return on investment Beeks, Kane, Keizner are looking for?
Is it possible the Couhigs are copping other peoples' flak, it wasn't the Couhigs who pulled off The Great Training Ground Heist of 2013.
Anybody see the written agreement about how they were keen to sell it back? Anybody seen the original, written agreement?
The £350k capital outlay and the rental income against that outlay made it one of the deals of the century.
To suggest it was anything like a philanthropic act treats us like fools. The well meaning Trust team of the day were sold (not for the first time) magic beans. A dark day for the club that haunts us to this day.
All very easy to say, but where else were we going to find £350k in a hurry? Painting it as the Trust being taken for a ride is a rewriting of history I’m afraid.
I’m in now way a wealthy man. Far from it. But if you said hey I’ll offer you a deal with a 20% return I would find a way to make that deal happen. It’s a lottery win. 60k rent guaranteed. Yes please. On an asset that was going to appreciate.
Ok. Let’s pretend it was a philanthropic act and that deal had to be done that day, that week. Why the buy back clause that was revoked on failure to pay even 1 month of rent late?
At the time we were reaching out to Chairboys funders to help the club. 20% wasn’t being offered. And as far as I know no existing funders were offered a slice of the training ground action.
and why the secrecy. An act of great generosity should have allowed fans to thank our saviours.
I don’t blame Don Woodward and the trust board. Don did some great work to even keep us going and we should be thankful. But we were f**ed by snakes in the form of other clubs (Blackpool) and worse still from within. We all thought we were saved when the Phillips deal went through. The trust meeting where we found out we had sold the sell on fee for quick cash i was almost sick.
I’ve still got my community share certificates. For me, they were a contribution to make up for being geographically distant from the Trust run club. It wasn’t big money but it was given with the expectation of nothing in return.
The training ground trio did nicely out of our club in its hour of need. Their insistence on anonymity at the time tells you all you need to know.
The trust board did a good job negotiating a deal when Steve Hayes wanted out. But then it made a fatal mistake: it became a closed shop, protecting its directors' positions, making it almost impossible to challenge for a place on the top table, sidestepping attempts at scrutiny or transparency. And as so often when sunlight is withheld, it shriveled, it ossified, it pickled. What could have been a Trust Of All The Talents merely became hoist by its own petard.
I have read every post on this subject to date. In summary, from what I have read it appears to be a private deal between two very wealthy foreigners, unfortunately carried out using the very public names of WWFC and Reading FC. If these names were taken out of the equation, would anyone care anymore than say, Walmart buying out Asda for example? At the end of the day, we all know that any deal reached, (if indeed it continues to a conclusion), will be covered by an NDA anyway. 🤷♂️
Some talk on twitter now that the training ground deal may not go through (John Madejski on the radio this morning supposedly not convinced it will happen), and the prospective buyers of the club could still be interested in buying the training ground too.
I am expecting to see this fall through. Egg on the face.
Madejski also gave his thoughts on the proposed sale of Bearwood Park to Wycombe Wanderers and believes that a deal is unlikely to be completed.
He continued: “I just still can’t my head around Wycombe, it just does not make sense in any shape or form.
“It’s 20 odd miles away. I just don’t get it. Personally I don’t think that is going to grow legs, I really don’t. The club is definitely strapped for money. The facilities at Bearwood are so off the richter scale, it’s a luxury, luxury thing to be able to have in your portfolio."
“A: can we afford it and B: do we really want it? Can’t we train somewhere else?"
Since we are on the subject of history and in an effort to prevent its rewriting, a little context might be useful. Without going into a blow-by-blow account of the daily/monthly/yearly happenings, I feel that the following is relevant to assessing the transfer of the asset from WWFC to 'The Consortium'
Many members of the consortium had previously been responsible for the day to day managing of the affairs of WWFC
Many members of the consortium had previously styled themselves as club benefactors, giving their time and expertise for free for the good of the club seeking nothing in return.
The finances of the club had become unknown to the members with the usual level of financial detail not being presented at AGMs, instead vague assurances about the robust state of the finances were given and were taken by the members at face value.
The club had previously been on the brink of being unable to meet its daily financial commitments and had only been prevented from having to file for administration by selling the naming rights of Adams Park to a third party, even at this dire state of financial affairs still the members were not informed. The true peril that the club were in only came to light many years later when a disgruntled comment from the third party about the scant thanks that they had received for having prevented the club from going under was made.
Further on down the line the members were then informed (shortly after a vague assurance regarding the solid finances of the club) that the club's finances were unviable, that buyers had been found and that the members faced a choice of selling up to outside interests or to face liquidation. Amongst those outside interests turned out to be some who had presided over the deterioration of the club's finances.
Ownership then changed hands again before dual-tenancy with Wasps, the threat of losing our stadium and ultimately the failure of the private model and the resumption of fan based ownership on different terms to those promised by the owner at the outset of his reign, it would take too long to go through all of that and it isn't the crux of this particular matter.
What is the crux is this:
I judge the sale of the training ground in light of the governance of the club, the individuals involved in governing the club and the individuals involved in the purchase of assets. In this case I think that the question 'where else were we going to find £350k in a hurry' begs the question 'why was there a hurry in the first place?' It seems like the same old story with the same old individuals involved and the usual MO of bringing the club to a point of crisis without raising an alarm bell, giving the members Hobson's choice and then walking away with the asset, a one-sided tenancy agreement and the honour of having saved the club from ruin. I don't think it was the Trust being taken for a ride, I paint it as the members having been taken for a twenty year ride from the move to Adams Park to the ruin of the club and the transfer of its assets to familiar faces and the final resumption of ownership of a club so bled dry that the club was unable to afford a youth team or a reserves set-up, there were first team matches where we couldn't fill the subs bench. That's the history I remember.
@DevC there's a Powerpoint on the Trust website somewhere, will have a look in a bit - 30k rent rings a bell though not 15k? It changed late from memory
We were going to fund the running of Reading and all their wages whilst the deal was sorted out for a training ground we were never going to be able to use?
How utterly humiliating for the Couhigs and the club. Who heads into such a major business deal without doing the right due diligence? They'll be lucky if anyone takes them seriously ever again.
Utterly embarrassing. Maybe if our sporting director spent less time dishing out retaliatory abuse on social media and more time researching what would be the biggest commercial deal the club has ever done… then maybe … just maybe … we wouldn’t look like utter fools.
To be fair there was never any suggestion that due diligence would not be done, They were forced into an early public statement due to press interest.
Still very mysterious where the money for this (including now interim funding) was coming from and why on earth the owners and prospective owners of our little Lg1 club thought this was the right deal for us. All very odd.
Comments
If I paid a tenner for the privilege of getting updates, I'd be furious.
As it is late on St. Patrick's day, I will resist temptation.
Except to say, the puzzling decision of ex-Chairmen and ex-board directors (read communique issued by Trust ) wishing to remain anonymous, whose sole interest was to protect the club, at time of purchase of training ground and whose intentions were definitely not (phew) to make an absolute shedload (read the communique issued by Trust re: Item 4) sounded almost too good to be true at the time.
Given 'anonymous' investors/angels paid £350K March/April 2013, plus rent on 10 year lease March 2013, for the Couhigs to look at (sellers price), £50mn training ground facility makes one wonder what return on investment Beeks, Kane, Keizner are looking for?
Is it possible the Couhigs are copping other peoples' flak, it wasn't the Couhigs who pulled off The Great Training Ground Heist of 2013.
Anybody see the written agreement about how they were keen to sell it back? Anybody seen the original, written agreement?
Just asking for a friend.
A real can of worms.
The £350k capital outlay and the rental income against that outlay made it one of the deals of the century.
To suggest it was anything like a philanthropic act treats us like fools. The well meaning Trust team of the day were sold (not for the first time) magic beans. A dark day for the club that haunts us to this day.
All very easy to say, but where else were we going to find £350k in a hurry? Painting it as the Trust being taken for a ride is a rewriting of history I’m afraid.
Important point this one.
We may have lost our training ground, but could easily have lost the club itself at that time.
I think there was an agreed date we could have bought the training ground back by, but clearly that had expired by the time the Couhigs came in.
Are you mistaking him for Delia Smith?
No it was Beeks and he didn’t say ‘let’s me having you’.
be
I’m in now way a wealthy man. Far from it. But if you said hey I’ll offer you a deal with a 20% return I would find a way to make that deal happen. It’s a lottery win. 60k rent guaranteed. Yes please. On an asset that was going to appreciate.
Ok. Let’s pretend it was a philanthropic act and that deal had to be done that day, that week. Why the buy back clause that was revoked on failure to pay even 1 month of rent late?
At the time we were reaching out to Chairboys funders to help the club. 20% wasn’t being offered. And as far as I know no existing funders were offered a slice of the training ground action.
and why the secrecy. An act of great generosity should have allowed fans to thank our saviours.
Dark days indeed.
I don’t blame Don Woodward and the trust board. Don did some great work to even keep us going and we should be thankful. But we were f**ed by snakes in the form of other clubs (Blackpool) and worse still from within. We all thought we were saved when the Phillips deal went through. The trust meeting where we found out we had sold the sell on fee for quick cash i was almost sick.
I’ve still got my community share certificates. For me, they were a contribution to make up for being geographically distant from the Trust run club. It wasn’t big money but it was given with the expectation of nothing in return.
The training ground trio did nicely out of our club in its hour of need. Their insistence on anonymity at the time tells you all you need to know.
The trust board did a good job negotiating a deal when Steve Hayes wanted out. But then it made a fatal mistake: it became a closed shop, protecting its directors' positions, making it almost impossible to challenge for a place on the top table, sidestepping attempts at scrutiny or transparency. And as so often when sunlight is withheld, it shriveled, it ossified, it pickled. What could have been a Trust Of All The Talents merely became hoist by its own petard.
I have read every post on this subject to date. In summary, from what I have read it appears to be a private deal between two very wealthy foreigners, unfortunately carried out using the very public names of WWFC and Reading FC. If these names were taken out of the equation, would anyone care anymore than say, Walmart buying out Asda for example? At the end of the day, we all know that any deal reached, (if indeed it continues to a conclusion), will be covered by an NDA anyway. 🤷♂️
Some talk on twitter now that the training ground deal may not go through (John Madejski on the radio this morning supposedly not convinced it will happen), and the prospective buyers of the club could still be interested in buying the training ground too.
I am expecting to see this fall through. Egg on the face.
Madejski quote...
Madejski also gave his thoughts on the proposed sale of Bearwood Park to Wycombe Wanderers and believes that a deal is unlikely to be completed.
He continued: “I just still can’t my head around Wycombe, it just does not make sense in any shape or form.
“It’s 20 odd miles away. I just don’t get it. Personally I don’t think that is going to grow legs, I really don’t. The club is definitely strapped for money. The facilities at Bearwood are so off the richter scale, it’s a luxury, luxury thing to be able to have in your portfolio."
“A: can we afford it and B: do we really want it? Can’t we train somewhere else?"
https://rdg.today/sir-john-madejski-optimistic-that-reading-fc-takeover-will-be-completed-in-near-future/
Since we are on the subject of history and in an effort to prevent its rewriting, a little context might be useful. Without going into a blow-by-blow account of the daily/monthly/yearly happenings, I feel that the following is relevant to assessing the transfer of the asset from WWFC to 'The Consortium'
Ownership then changed hands again before dual-tenancy with Wasps, the threat of losing our stadium and ultimately the failure of the private model and the resumption of fan based ownership on different terms to those promised by the owner at the outset of his reign, it would take too long to go through all of that and it isn't the crux of this particular matter.
What is the crux is this:
I judge the sale of the training ground in light of the governance of the club, the individuals involved in governing the club and the individuals involved in the purchase of assets. In this case I think that the question 'where else were we going to find £350k in a hurry' begs the question 'why was there a hurry in the first place?' It seems like the same old story with the same old individuals involved and the usual MO of bringing the club to a point of crisis without raising an alarm bell, giving the members Hobson's choice and then walking away with the asset, a one-sided tenancy agreement and the honour of having saved the club from ruin. I don't think it was the Trust being taken for a ride, I paint it as the members having been taken for a twenty year ride from the move to Adams Park to the ruin of the club and the transfer of its assets to familiar faces and the final resumption of ownership of a club so bled dry that the club was unable to afford a youth team or a reserves set-up, there were first team matches where we couldn't fill the subs bench. That's the history I remember.
What were the terms of the deal.
As I recall something like
Sale Price £350k
Ten year deal
Rent £15k
Buy back option at cost plus £20% at 5 and 7 years
Land with limited use due to planning conditions apart from existing use.
Sure some of those details are wrong? Can anyone remember?
Glen Little as in the ex-Reading player?
@DevC there's a Powerpoint on the Trust website somewhere, will have a look in a bit - 30k rent rings a bell though not 15k? It changed late from memory
And now it's all on hold (potentially off). Club statement
https://www.wwfc.com/news/2024/march/18/club-statement-bearwood-park/
https://www.wwfc.com/news/2024/march/18/club-statement-bearwood-park/
Deal on hold.
What a weird few days
We were going to fund the running of Reading and all their wages whilst the deal was sorted out for a training ground we were never going to be able to use?
What an absolute shit show.
Best Friday on forum ever.
How utterly humiliating for the Couhigs and the club. Who heads into such a major business deal without doing the right due diligence? They'll be lucky if anyone takes them seriously ever again.
Utterly embarrassing. Maybe if our sporting director spent less time dishing out retaliatory abuse on social media and more time researching what would be the biggest commercial deal the club has ever done… then maybe … just maybe … we wouldn’t look like utter fools.
Led by donkeys.
To be fair there was never any suggestion that due diligence would not be done, They were forced into an early public statement due to press interest.
Still very mysterious where the money for this (including now interim funding) was coming from and why on earth the owners and prospective owners of our little Lg1 club thought this was the right deal for us. All very odd.