Not contesting that at all @username123 just pointing out that your reference to just one header that went wide is not quite right as Rav made some really superb saves.
You’re the second person I’ve seen say this, but I saw Saturday very differently. Vokes had a total of 17 touches, and found a team mate with just 4 passes. We had one attack after he came on.
One of those touches was brilliant of course, but the rest simply gave possession away.
It was a little bit like a Sunday league footballer won a charity competition to play up front for us in that second half. Vokes might have created the goal on Saturday but he still looked out of his depth. The penalty came from their incompetence rather than persistent quality of Vokes. Today indicated that Saturday’s win exhibited distinct outcome bias. I certainly hope Bloomfield keeps Vokes’ role limited on Wembley’s extremely large pitch, especially with the way referees treat him.
Just got home and havnt seen anyone else's comments yet.
But, that 2nd half was absolutely abysmal !! All on Matt again im afraid, shame after much improvements lately. Dreadful subs, Dreadful tactics, inviting pressure. So so many games we look great 1st half then sit back and look awful 2nd half... 5 at the back again !! Why ?
Luckily some how managed to hang on. So won't lose much sleep, but, bloody hell, come on.
It’s difficult to argue with the stats. But everyone I spoke to on Saturday felt the same - the tenor of the game changed when Vokes came on. We had the same conversation at half time today - we all thought it was the wrong substitution and we were proved wrong.
Also I thought Wigan were very good. Their passing in the first half was ok, but a little boring and not penetrative. That changed in the second half and we were lucky to survive. Am I making it up or is the average standard in League 1 significantly improved this season?
45 minutes looking safe and in control...45 minutes being bombarded...does MB not know the age demographic, he'll kill us all.
(For me Lubala played a blinder but nothing was sticking upfront second half so Vokes came on. Might not have worked but I see the logic. I realise that for @drcongo that is like saying Max is great to @aloysius )
Really smart analysis that. Hard to argue against facts though isn’t it so it’s always fun to see you dig through your childhood diaries to find the most cutting remark anyone ever said to you on the playground.
I guess when you’re in love with someone you’re blind to their faults.
Wigan are presumably a big-budget side, who can afford better, slicker players.
I would say I’ve watched 2/3 of the games this season, and there have been very few teams where I’ve been convinced of the quality.
There’s a huge glut of mediocre to bad sides in this league, and still plenty of scope for defensive/goalie howlers and comedy finishing, from what I can tell.
To go down this season, you’d have to be absolutely diabolical.
I wouldn’t begrudge anyone who’s tried to block our huge winless streak from memory, but it happened, and the fact we’re now mid-table, trending towards “on the beach”, does on the one side bear witness to smart January signings and an uptick in team spirit and resilience…but also to the limited quality of the teams around us.
Just back now, nice little trip with my son. I commented on here how good we we're at half time, shame it was the complete opposite 2nd half.
Would of took 1-0 before the game so got to be happy with the 3 points but just feel with a little more belief we could put teams to bed rather than sitting back inviting pressure.
Actually missed the last 10 or so minutes as we got off to beat the traffic, not ideal but after a 4.5hr drive to the game I wanted to get going and not get back at silly o'clock.
Some positives from tonight, the club shop must of been happy, seen a big group of Americans go in and literally whatever they picked up they bought. Another one was I spoke with a couple of people involved with the disabled supporters group and they're running a coach for the final. It's an option for us, just going to get the tickets tomorrow and go from there.
Although the second half tactics left a lot to be desired going to 5 at the back and leaving Vokes isolated with no wingers, I'm happy to accept a fortunate 3 points.
We were fortunate that they were quite toothless in the final third and overly patient at times with their build up play.
The most pleasing aspects are that we now seem to have learnt how to dig out results, and that the players are clearly putting everything in for Bloomfield. After earlier defeats to Morecambe in the cup and the Fleetwood debacle during the 1 win in 17 I was really questioning some players commitment and also the manager's position. Recent results have been much better and my previous fear for our L1 safety has all but disappeared so overall got to be happy with the last 10 or so games, as well as our business in the January window.
How does that work with the time played when he came on at 52 minutes?
I didn’t want to criticise Vokes for his performance he was simply the wrong sub. Totally isolated. 4 defenders onto him and lumping the ball up in the air. If we had got the ball to his feet maybe others could have joined him but we didn’t.
It was clearly straight at the keeper and clearly going in. No way was that an OG. It deserved to be given as an OG given how amateurish the keeping was but it was absolutely Scowen’s goal.
As others have said and the evidence is clearly there, what the hell happens to us over half time.
It feels like 80%+ matches we dominate the first half and then surrender in the second half.
Going to a back three might have been a good call, it worked a couple of weeks ago at Bradford. What doesn’t work is going to a flat back five. Leaving three centre backs marking one player and the wing backs ending up deeper than the centre backs.
It completely crucified us. McCarthy is also not capable of playing on the left hand side.
It’s great to get the three points but after moving forwards throughout January and February, I think the 2nd half attacking displays against Reading and now Wigan have been really poor but we’ve taken maximum points!
MB and the management team need to find an aggressive, attacking way to play the second half out. The low block is ok sometimes but if it becomes our default we will lose more than we win in the long run.
The most frustrating thing last night was just giving them possession again and again by having no one up front. If Vokes was being brought deep to defend then Taylor or Sads should have been an outlet.
All good learning experience for MB and if we win a couple more he can start to give some experience to others and try some different formations etc, etc.
Just watched the extended highlights and confirmed what I thought on the night about the second half. We got deeper and deeper, inviting them onto to us and looked like by moving to a back five , we were happy to give up possession and just hoping we could survive. When we got the ball , we had no outlet to keep the pressure off . Vokes wasn’t the right call. Bloomfield talked in his interview about tired legs but Wigan had a game on Saturday as well. Somehow we survived and managed to secure another 3 important points. I know Bloomfield is a young manager , just learning his trade but his inexperience is clear to see. The last two wins have almost secured our position in League 1 and hopefully the experience of this season, will make Bloomfield a better manager next season.
That was a very long second half, but does the outcome justify the means? Absolutely! We dug in, defended resolutely and Wigan only broke through in the closing stages when our goalkeeper was excellent. I think the management and players knew that victory last night just about guaranteed that we won’t be dragged into a relegation battle and the only thing that mattered was the result. With the pressure off I think we’ll see very different tactics in our remaining games.
The early season 'sit on a lead' (or maybe that should be 'play dead slumped over the lead') tactic is back with a vengeance. We are better than we were at it, though still nowhere near good enough for this to be a viable tactic (especially if we have no outball for a counter like yesterday). We were fortunate Wigan were very wasteful in front of goal, notwithstanding good blocks and saves from Ravizzolli, many other teams in this league would have equalised and forced us to get back on the front foot.
I was going to say, I'm not sure last night was a tactical triumph as much as it was the opposition being very poor in the final third and when they did finally trouble our keeper he pulled off some excellent saves.
I don't care of course, a win is a win. Bit on another night wned have lost 2 or 3 - 1
The second half was atrocious and it was difficult to understand why we were so bad having more than matched them before the break. In the end, we only won because their finishing was poor.
At least the woeful 'five at the back' formation only re-emerged for 20 minutes before even Bloomfield gave up on it - hopefully for ever this time.
Very odd feeling like we might lose a game despite being 1-0 up going into injury time. Felt that if they got 1 then they could well have grabbed it, but thankfully we held on and, ultimately, a win is a win.
Doubt there are stats available but can't imagine many players have taken as many throw ins in 45 minutes as Grimmer did in the first half last night!
Comments
That’s his job !!!! 😂
Yes but they were shots on target.
Still stand by my comments, sometimes other teams up their game and you have to switch up your play to counter it.
Not contesting that at all @username123 just pointing out that your reference to just one header that went wide is not quite right as Rav made some really superb saves.
Yeah maybe I did turn a blind eye !!
You’re the second person I’ve seen say this, but I saw Saturday very differently. Vokes had a total of 17 touches, and found a team mate with just 4 passes. We had one attack after he came on.
One of those touches was brilliant of course, but the rest simply gave possession away.
Did he get off with your girlfriend at some point?
It was a little bit like a Sunday league footballer won a charity competition to play up front for us in that second half. Vokes might have created the goal on Saturday but he still looked out of his depth. The penalty came from their incompetence rather than persistent quality of Vokes. Today indicated that Saturday’s win exhibited distinct outcome bias. I certainly hope Bloomfield keeps Vokes’ role limited on Wembley’s extremely large pitch, especially with the way referees treat him.
Just got home and havnt seen anyone else's comments yet.
But, that 2nd half was absolutely abysmal !! All on Matt again im afraid, shame after much improvements lately. Dreadful subs, Dreadful tactics, inviting pressure. So so many games we look great 1st half then sit back and look awful 2nd half... 5 at the back again !! Why ?
Luckily some how managed to hang on. So won't lose much sleep, but, bloody hell, come on.
It’s difficult to argue with the stats. But everyone I spoke to on Saturday felt the same - the tenor of the game changed when Vokes came on. We had the same conversation at half time today - we all thought it was the wrong substitution and we were proved wrong.
Also I thought Wigan were very good. Their passing in the first half was ok, but a little boring and not penetrative. That changed in the second half and we were lucky to survive. Am I making it up or is the average standard in League 1 significantly improved this season?
45 minutes looking safe and in control...45 minutes being bombarded...does MB not know the age demographic, he'll kill us all.
(For me Lubala played a blinder but nothing was sticking upfront second half so Vokes came on. Might not have worked but I see the logic. I realise that for @drcongo that is like saying Max is great to @aloysius )
Really smart analysis that. Hard to argue against facts though isn’t it so it’s always fun to see you dig through your childhood diaries to find the most cutting remark anyone ever said to you on the playground.
I guess when you’re in love with someone you’re blind to their faults.
Yes, I think you’re making it up.
Wigan are presumably a big-budget side, who can afford better, slicker players.
I would say I’ve watched 2/3 of the games this season, and there have been very few teams where I’ve been convinced of the quality.
There’s a huge glut of mediocre to bad sides in this league, and still plenty of scope for defensive/goalie howlers and comedy finishing, from what I can tell.
To go down this season, you’d have to be absolutely diabolical.
I wouldn’t begrudge anyone who’s tried to block our huge winless streak from memory, but it happened, and the fact we’re now mid-table, trending towards “on the beach”, does on the one side bear witness to smart January signings and an uptick in team spirit and resilience…but also to the limited quality of the teams around us.
I'm still looking forward to a playoff push. 😉
Bit cheeky of the club to claim that as Scowen's goal 😅
Come on - the ball just needed a wee tickle to get it over the line!
Just back now, nice little trip with my son. I commented on here how good we we're at half time, shame it was the complete opposite 2nd half.
Would of took 1-0 before the game so got to be happy with the 3 points but just feel with a little more belief we could put teams to bed rather than sitting back inviting pressure.
Actually missed the last 10 or so minutes as we got off to beat the traffic, not ideal but after a 4.5hr drive to the game I wanted to get going and not get back at silly o'clock.
Some positives from tonight, the club shop must of been happy, seen a big group of Americans go in and literally whatever they picked up they bought. Another one was I spoke with a couple of people involved with the disabled supporters group and they're running a coach for the final. It's an option for us, just going to get the tickets tomorrow and go from there.
So lads I have a plan for the second half.
Although the second half tactics left a lot to be desired going to 5 at the back and leaving Vokes isolated with no wingers, I'm happy to accept a fortunate 3 points.
We were fortunate that they were quite toothless in the final third and overly patient at times with their build up play.
The most pleasing aspects are that we now seem to have learnt how to dig out results, and that the players are clearly putting everything in for Bloomfield. After earlier defeats to Morecambe in the cup and the Fleetwood debacle during the 1 win in 17 I was really questioning some players commitment and also the manager's position. Recent results have been much better and my previous fear for our L1 safety has all but disappeared so overall got to be happy with the last 10 or so games, as well as our business in the January window.
How does that work with the time played when he came on at 52 minutes?
I didn’t want to criticise Vokes for his performance he was simply the wrong sub. Totally isolated. 4 defenders onto him and lumping the ball up in the air. If we had got the ball to his feet maybe others could have joined him but we didn’t.
It was clearly straight at the keeper and clearly going in. No way was that an OG. It deserved to be given as an OG given how amateurish the keeping was but it was absolutely Scowen’s goal.
As others have said and the evidence is clearly there, what the hell happens to us over half time.
It feels like 80%+ matches we dominate the first half and then surrender in the second half.
Going to a back three might have been a good call, it worked a couple of weeks ago at Bradford. What doesn’t work is going to a flat back five. Leaving three centre backs marking one player and the wing backs ending up deeper than the centre backs.
It completely crucified us. McCarthy is also not capable of playing on the left hand side.
It’s great to get the three points but after moving forwards throughout January and February, I think the 2nd half attacking displays against Reading and now Wigan have been really poor but we’ve taken maximum points!
MB and the management team need to find an aggressive, attacking way to play the second half out. The low block is ok sometimes but if it becomes our default we will lose more than we win in the long run.
The most frustrating thing last night was just giving them possession again and again by having no one up front. If Vokes was being brought deep to defend then Taylor or Sads should have been an outlet.
All good learning experience for MB and if we win a couple more he can start to give some experience to others and try some different formations etc, etc.
It wasn't going in
https://twitter.com/wwfcofficial/status/1767822915461115987?t=Y8I65Fj6f6LDKoRoyVmSyQ&s=19
You're right about the goalkeeper though. Absolutely dreadful. The defending from their no.21 not brilliant either
Just watched the extended highlights and confirmed what I thought on the night about the second half. We got deeper and deeper, inviting them onto to us and looked like by moving to a back five , we were happy to give up possession and just hoping we could survive. When we got the ball , we had no outlet to keep the pressure off . Vokes wasn’t the right call. Bloomfield talked in his interview about tired legs but Wigan had a game on Saturday as well. Somehow we survived and managed to secure another 3 important points. I know Bloomfield is a young manager , just learning his trade but his inexperience is clear to see. The last two wins have almost secured our position in League 1 and hopefully the experience of this season, will make Bloomfield a better manager next season.
That was a very long second half, but does the outcome justify the means? Absolutely! We dug in, defended resolutely and Wigan only broke through in the closing stages when our goalkeeper was excellent. I think the management and players knew that victory last night just about guaranteed that we won’t be dragged into a relegation battle and the only thing that mattered was the result. With the pressure off I think we’ll see very different tactics in our remaining games.
The early season 'sit on a lead' (or maybe that should be 'play dead slumped over the lead') tactic is back with a vengeance. We are better than we were at it, though still nowhere near good enough for this to be a viable tactic (especially if we have no outball for a counter like yesterday). We were fortunate Wigan were very wasteful in front of goal, notwithstanding good blocks and saves from Ravizzolli, many other teams in this league would have equalised and forced us to get back on the front foot.
I was going to say, I'm not sure last night was a tactical triumph as much as it was the opposition being very poor in the final third and when they did finally trouble our keeper he pulled off some excellent saves.
I don't care of course, a win is a win. Bit on another night wned have lost 2 or 3 - 1
The second half was atrocious and it was difficult to understand why we were so bad having more than matched them before the break. In the end, we only won because their finishing was poor.
At least the woeful 'five at the back' formation only re-emerged for 20 minutes before even Bloomfield gave up on it - hopefully for ever this time.
Very odd feeling like we might lose a game despite being 1-0 up going into injury time. Felt that if they got 1 then they could well have grabbed it, but thankfully we held on and, ultimately, a win is a win.
Doubt there are stats available but can't imagine many players have taken as many throw ins in 45 minutes as Grimmer did in the first half last night!