I am on record for saying that i actually enjoy Rugby (both from playing Union when younger and as a spectator), and I agree that the sport at the top level is a lot more advanced in relation to the VAR equivalent and the respect offered to referees.
However...
It was noticeable in the recent World Cup that a lot (most in the final!) of the important actions and decisions were invisible to both the spectators in the ground and live on TV. They were really only picked up by the VAR-type team scrutinising closely in slow-motion something that no-one really saw at the time.
Ultimately the right decisions (in terms of adherence to the rules of the game) were reached, but I have slightly conflicted views in that as a spectator I became increasingly aware that what I was watching in front of my eyes was increasingly irrelevant.
I do appreciate that it serves me right for watching rugby in the first place, but I would hate to see football become like that at other than Premier league level (where I honestly just find VAR and associated controversy funny).
We already have a card system to curtail dissent. I think the powers that be just want to be seen as innovative (but all they're really doing is overcomplicating things).
Some Gasroom elder statesmen might have more informed knowledge than me, but the 'story' passed to me was that in the infamous "We want to play in the London Senior Cup" B&B final at Chesham in the 70s, Terry Reardon was sent off for saying "It's a man's game, ref". Either that was extremely harsh, in context, or that ref was light years ahead of his time...
No essays or litigation from me, @Otter87 , I have often said that the TMO system in Rugby is far better than football's implementation of VAR.
The big difference, of course, is that a yellow card in Rugby automatically means 10 minutes in the sin bin, whereas in football a player can get away with a cynical foul, as long as he is careful for the rest of the match.
Also, why are these blue cards only being used for FA Cup games, and not League matches?
Does the ref have enough pockets for all the cards?
Can't we just make the dissenting player wear a dunce's cap in the Opposition colours and if it comes off it's a yellow and he then has play the rest of the match without his boots until someone in the other team has to wear the cap and then he can put one boot back on.
A simple solution, easily managed but try and make the FA take notice and you just get a cease and desist letter...
It was Mead who was sent off in the 11th minute, for swearing at his team mate Reardon, Mead said afterwards. Reardon had apparently been warned for swearing just before that. At that time, a Wanderers player being sent off was unheard off.
It was a very strange afternoon, the referee (from Slough) did seem to have it for the Chairboys, especially when Keith Searle was fouled on the way to putting the ball in the net, only for the referee to blow up afterwards for a foul on Searle and not give a goal. In extra time, a Bodger hat-trick and Searle goal, gave us the win against a plucky Thatcham side, who are the only team, to this day, to "hold" the B & B Cup, as opposed to "win" it.
"We want to play in the London Senior Cup" was indeed the chant after the match, @LeedsBlue, as we eventually realised the team were not coming out to receive the cup.
These day the chant is "We want to play in the Berks & Bucks Senior" Cup"!
Why do we think refs will suddenly use blue cards when they could just use their yellow ones to start with?
We'll just have more of a mess of a game, where one week you get Dalot getting 2 yellows for the same run of dissent, then another week you get the whole Man City squad screaming in a ref's face when he has the cheek to blow up for a foul.
Spot on - the team down to ten men will time waste over everything, knowing they are getting the player back. Unless there is a "blue card clock" the ref can stop and start.
I think the sinbin should be a port-a-loo that runs on tracks around the sideline when a player is sent there. Opposition fans can purchase rotten fruit and veg to throw at the contraption as it goes past and win prizes.
Sin bin is currently identified by a yellow card followed by the ref pointing to the dug outs, so can easily be missed by spectators in fairness.
The plus to me is that it does work in grassroots where I’ve reffed. The negative is that in professional football I see lots of teams playing safe football when down to ten players temporarily and ultimately the game becomes more negative.
“Come on ref” is quite different to “you have to be effing joking” Tone of voice and body language are also factors a ref will take into account as well as the situation
knowing that you risk 10 mins off the pitch may be an incentive to revert to the former
I do wonder what happens when a team has multiple players in the sun bin simultaneously when crowding the ref. 7 players minimum rule still apply?
I can see all sorts of problems with this, some of them already mentioned.
Does a blue card become redundant as soon as less than 10 minutes remains - or is that then effectively a red card without the following game suspension(s)?
Will there be a reluctance by referees to issue a blue card when the team involved is already down to 10 or fewer - following one or more red and/or yellow and/or blue cards - or are we going to see plenty of 9 v 8 games for varying periods of a game?
It seems to me that the implementation of blue cards presents the offending side with just one more excuse to waste time.
I can foresee problems if a goalkeeper receives a blue card late in the game when all substitutions have been made - or does a manager necessarily need to limit himself/herself to one fewer than the max to cover this eventuality?
More to-ing & fro-ing from the pitch inevitable means games will finish later. Are we looking at a norm of 2+ hours from KO to final whistle?
Like others, I see no reason why the existing red & yellow card system should be changed.
It general I think that there are already enough sanctions that can be applied by the referee, it's just that they fail to use them.
However, we've all seen a few challenges where it warrants more than a yellow card but a red doesn't seem appropriate either. So maybe the sin bin isn't quite so bad an idea.
As regards manager's holding back on substitutes in case of a late sun bin offense I'd just ask "Do managers hold back now in case of a late red?".
Comments
I am on record for saying that i actually enjoy Rugby (both from playing Union when younger and as a spectator), and I agree that the sport at the top level is a lot more advanced in relation to the VAR equivalent and the respect offered to referees.
However...
It was noticeable in the recent World Cup that a lot (most in the final!) of the important actions and decisions were invisible to both the spectators in the ground and live on TV. They were really only picked up by the VAR-type team scrutinising closely in slow-motion something that no-one really saw at the time.
Ultimately the right decisions (in terms of adherence to the rules of the game) were reached, but I have slightly conflicted views in that as a spectator I became increasingly aware that what I was watching in front of my eyes was increasingly irrelevant.
I do appreciate that it serves me right for watching rugby in the first place, but I would hate to see football become like that at other than Premier league level (where I honestly just find VAR and associated controversy funny).
If a card system works to curtail dissent it will be doing its job and is worth trying for that alone.
We already have a card system to curtail dissent. I think the powers that be just want to be seen as innovative (but all they're really doing is overcomplicating things).
And where do you draw the line? We can't have players sin-binned for reacting to a decision with 'Come on, ref'.
Will be pretty funny to see keepers sent off for 10 minutes though for disputing a corner
Some Gasroom elder statesmen might have more informed knowledge than me, but the 'story' passed to me was that in the infamous "We want to play in the London Senior Cup" B&B final at Chesham in the 70s, Terry Reardon was sent off for saying "It's a man's game, ref". Either that was extremely harsh, in context, or that ref was light years ahead of his time...
Remember when Sanchez Watt got sent off for telling the ref his name? Ref thought he was giving him lip.
Watt sent off for saying his name - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43314870
I imagine Brian Pinas had the same problem
No essays or litigation from me, @Otter87 , I have often said that the TMO system in Rugby is far better than football's implementation of VAR.
The big difference, of course, is that a yellow card in Rugby automatically means 10 minutes in the sin bin, whereas in football a player can get away with a cynical foul, as long as he is careful for the rest of the match.
Also, why are these blue cards only being used for FA Cup games, and not League matches?
Does the ref have enough pockets for all the cards?
Can't we just make the dissenting player wear a dunce's cap in the Opposition colours and if it comes off it's a yellow and he then has play the rest of the match without his boots until someone in the other team has to wear the cap and then he can put one boot back on.
A simple solution, easily managed but try and make the FA take notice and you just get a cease and desist letter...
I thought it was Keith Mead? What he said I couldn’t speculate. I was at the game but not privy to the conversation he had with the man in black.
It was Mead who was sent off in the 11th minute, for swearing at his team mate Reardon, Mead said afterwards. Reardon had apparently been warned for swearing just before that. At that time, a Wanderers player being sent off was unheard off.
It was a very strange afternoon, the referee (from Slough) did seem to have it for the Chairboys, especially when Keith Searle was fouled on the way to putting the ball in the net, only for the referee to blow up afterwards for a foul on Searle and not give a goal. In extra time, a Bodger hat-trick and Searle goal, gave us the win against a plucky Thatcham side, who are the only team, to this day, to "hold" the B & B Cup, as opposed to "win" it.
"We want to play in the London Senior Cup" was indeed the chant after the match, @LeedsBlue, as we eventually realised the team were not coming out to receive the cup.
These day the chant is "We want to play in the Berks & Bucks Senior" Cup"!
Exactly this.
Why do we think refs will suddenly use blue cards when they could just use their yellow ones to start with?
We'll just have more of a mess of a game, where one week you get Dalot getting 2 yellows for the same run of dissent, then another week you get the whole Man City squad screaming in a ref's face when he has the cheek to blow up for a foul.
Spot on - the team down to ten men will time waste over everything, knowing they are getting the player back. Unless there is a "blue card clock" the ref can stop and start.
I think the sinbin should be a port-a-loo that runs on tracks around the sideline when a player is sent there. Opposition fans can purchase rotten fruit and veg to throw at the contraption as it goes past and win prizes.
Or...we can stick with yellow and red cards.
Sin bin is currently identified by a yellow card followed by the ref pointing to the dug outs, so can easily be missed by spectators in fairness.
The plus to me is that it does work in grassroots where I’ve reffed. The negative is that in professional football I see lots of teams playing safe football when down to ten players temporarily and ultimately the game becomes more negative.
“Come on ref” is quite different to “you have to be effing joking” Tone of voice and body language are also factors a ref will take into account as well as the situation
knowing that you risk 10 mins off the pitch may be an incentive to revert to the former
I do wonder what happens when a team has multiple players in the sun bin simultaneously when crowding the ref. 7 players minimum rule still apply?
I can see all sorts of problems with this, some of them already mentioned.
Does a blue card become redundant as soon as less than 10 minutes remains - or is that then effectively a red card without the following game suspension(s)?
Will there be a reluctance by referees to issue a blue card when the team involved is already down to 10 or fewer - following one or more red and/or yellow and/or blue cards - or are we going to see plenty of 9 v 8 games for varying periods of a game?
It seems to me that the implementation of blue cards presents the offending side with just one more excuse to waste time.
I can foresee problems if a goalkeeper receives a blue card late in the game when all substitutions have been made - or does a manager necessarily need to limit himself/herself to one fewer than the max to cover this eventuality?
More to-ing & fro-ing from the pitch inevitable means games will finish later. Are we looking at a norm of 2+ hours from KO to final whistle?
Like others, I see no reason why the existing red & yellow card system should be changed.
It general I think that there are already enough sanctions that can be applied by the referee, it's just that they fail to use them.
However, we've all seen a few challenges where it warrants more than a yellow card but a red doesn't seem appropriate either. So maybe the sin bin isn't quite so bad an idea.
As regards manager's holding back on substitutes in case of a late sun bin offense I'd just ask "Do managers hold back now in case of a late red?".