Genuine question, when more or less everyone else not only rates Sam Vokes, but 'really' rates Sam Vokes, does it cause you to re-assess your position, or do you just think they're all wrong?
Because we’re a better team when we play with a strong centre forward who occupies the defenders and provides an outlet, and he’s the only player in the squad who can do that currently.
I'd have Samuel back. Provides much needed energy upfront and allows us to get a decent press going. Sometimes at this level the best strategy is to force other teams I to mistakes.
We've wasted a lot of time and energy this season trying to play football on ours terms, dictating the tempo of the game with possession football. Most of those efforts have been absolutely woeful and left us on the back foot in games. We'd have been far better off chasing down goalkeepers, harassing defenders and forcing set pieces, all of them which Samuel is good at.
I’ve enjoyed this recent thread. Rekindles that traditional Gasroom theme that, despite there being hundreds of players out there the ones that would best for fill our needs have either:
a) played for us before
b) play for a non league club no more than 15 miles radius from AP
For years here people appreciated Samuel's efforts and free kick winning skills, but no-one ever suggested he could catch fire goals wise.
Not long ago this season a few were suggesting we were much better with Dale Taylor up front than Vokes. Now most people seem to think Dale T doesn't do enough.
Genuine answer, Eric. In all the foregoing discussion - to the best of my memory - the central player has been Alex Samuel.
Wrongly, it seems, I thought @drcongo was referring to Alex in his post at 9.16 (as I was guessing that his strike rate was probably as described by @drcongo).
That was what flummoxed me.
PS Looking back, I now wonder if you intended to address your question to @drcongo. I think, like me, he has been quick to acknowledge any good performances by Big Sam - not least that cracking goal last week. I don’t know of course whether he joined me in voting for Sam as MOTM.
It wasn’t your stats that flummoxed me. It was the fact that, without scrolling back (and delaying breakfast!), I hadn’t a clue what you were referring to.
Yeah, fair enough. The point I was trying to make is that any of our strikers in our recent history playing in a 2 with Vokes with this current lineup will score plenty of goals. I’m talking about This lineup starting as near to every game as possible. It’s about a consistent run of games.
We all saw that Taylor was ineffective as a sole striker but is a completely different player with Vokes. TJ hasn’t ever had a run of games to prove himself. AAH didn’t either.
Kashket has had one period when he scored a lot of goals, an extended period with Bayo.
Foe the record, I think Alex Samuel was exceptionally good at what he did, performing a rare defensive forward role, but he'd do well to score double figures in any system - that's not the kind of player he is.
I’ve an indelible picture of little Alex in my mind. He has his back to goal, squatting slightly, ball at his feet, waiting for a defender to close in on him from behind and, as often as not, “earning” a free kick. Total contrast with Big Sam who is routinely wrestled by defenders and having his shirt virtually pulled off but very rarely getting a free kick in his favour. It’s disgraceful and I genuinely mean that.
@micra a sign your powers are not dimming. My thoughts exactly. Samuel did a thankless job (especially for some on here) but did it effectively. I know it's a man's game, but the marking of Vokes in his recent games has been ridiculous...I was hoping A Vokes/Kone combo would give defenders more to worry about!!
If you ignore Vokes scoring 17 in his first season, or that he's scored more goals after the age of 31 than Samuel at 29 has scored in his whole career, it's a great stat.
The fact that most opposing teams put two defenders on Vokes, just as they did with Bayo, underlines his value to the team. Assessing his performances purely on goals scored v.min played does not do him justice. His scoring record is around 1 goal every 4 games, exactly the same as Bayo and no one ever doubted his contribution.
Comments
I’m totally flummoxed.
@Mandown’s post of 8.12 won’t copy down for me.
His first paragraph is extraordinary.
Genuine question, when more or less everyone else not only rates Sam Vokes, but 'really' rates Sam Vokes, does it cause you to re-assess your position, or do you just think they're all wrong?
Because we’re a better team when we play with a strong centre forward who occupies the defenders and provides an outlet, and he’s the only player in the squad who can do that currently.
I'd like one who scores goals.
Millions of people watch Britains Got Talent. Doesn't mean it's good.
I'd like one who
scores goalshas the best xGFixed!
If we want to drop into non-league for a proven goalscorer then Marlow FC have have a forward who has scored 5 in the last 2. Dave something...
I'd have Samuel back. Provides much needed energy upfront and allows us to get a decent press going. Sometimes at this level the best strategy is to force other teams I to mistakes.
We've wasted a lot of time and energy this season trying to play football on ours terms, dictating the tempo of the game with possession football. Most of those efforts have been absolutely woeful and left us on the back foot in games. We'd have been far better off chasing down goalkeepers, harassing defenders and forcing set pieces, all of them which Samuel is good at.
Alex Samuel is capable of scoring 15-20 goals a season and Sam Vokes isn't very good? Wild.
I hope you're not getting "flummoxed" as well!
I'd rather we stayed in League One to be fair...
I’ve enjoyed this recent thread. Rekindles that traditional Gasroom theme that, despite there being hundreds of players out there the ones that would best for fill our needs have either:
a) played for us before
b) play for a non league club no more than 15 miles radius from AP
Makes scouting so much simpler.
That's my default state tbf
Samuel's career goals total is about 25, so not sure he's ever getting 15-20 in one season. Hard to see TJ doing it in league 1 either.
Uche in the form he was in the half year we had him in the championship I think he could.
It's a superb ride listening to football fans.
For years here people appreciated Samuel's efforts and free kick winning skills, but no-one ever suggested he could catch fire goals wise.
Not long ago this season a few were suggesting we were much better with Dale Taylor up front than Vokes. Now most people seem to think Dale T doesn't do enough.
Vokes seems to me to be a class act and we look more dangerous when he is playing...even with two or three markers on him at all times.
Genuine answer, Eric. In all the foregoing discussion - to the best of my memory - the central player has been Alex Samuel.
Wrongly, it seems, I thought @drcongo was referring to Alex in his post at 9.16 (as I was guessing that his strike rate was probably as described by @drcongo).
That was what flummoxed me.
PS Looking back, I now wonder if you intended to address your question to @drcongo. I think, like me, he has been quick to acknowledge any good performances by Big Sam - not least that cracking goal last week. I don’t know of course whether he joined me in voting for Sam as MOTM.
Big Sam's goals per ninety last season was the same as Alex Samuel's was in the 18/19 season, so not as weird a comparison as it may seem.
It wasn’t your stats that flummoxed me. It was the fact that, without scrolling back (and delaying breakfast!), I hadn’t a clue what you were referring to.
No offence intended.
Yeah, fair enough. The point I was trying to make is that any of our strikers in our recent history playing in a 2 with Vokes with this current lineup will score plenty of goals. I’m talking about This lineup starting as near to every game as possible. It’s about a consistent run of games.
We all saw that Taylor was ineffective as a sole striker but is a completely different player with Vokes. TJ hasn’t ever had a run of games to prove himself. AAH didn’t either.
Kashket has had one period when he scored a lot of goals, an extended period with Bayo.
Foe the record, I think Alex Samuel was exceptionally good at what he did, performing a rare defensive forward role, but he'd do well to score double figures in any system - that's not the kind of player he is.
I’ve an indelible picture of little Alex in my mind. He has his back to goal, squatting slightly, ball at his feet, waiting for a defender to close in on him from behind and, as often as not, “earning” a free kick. Total contrast with Big Sam who is routinely wrestled by defenders and having his shirt virtually pulled off but very rarely getting a free kick in his favour. It’s disgraceful and I genuinely mean that.
@micra a sign your powers are not dimming. My thoughts exactly. Samuel did a thankless job (especially for some on here) but did it effectively. I know it's a man's game, but the marking of Vokes in his recent games has been ridiculous...I was hoping A Vokes/Kone combo would give defenders more to worry about!!
If you ignore Vokes scoring 17 in his first season, or that he's scored more goals after the age of 31 than Samuel at 29 has scored in his whole career, it's a great stat.
Most of the officiating against Vokes this season has been appalling
The fact that most opposing teams put two defenders on Vokes, just as they did with Bayo, underlines his value to the team. Assessing his performances purely on goals scored v.min played does not do him justice. His scoring record is around 1 goal every 4 games, exactly the same as Bayo and no one ever doubted his contribution.
I wonder if there are any rumours relating to potential new signings ? 🙁
fingers crossed.
There really should be a thread for that