I don’t recall saying that but perhaps you have a better memory than me. I do sometimes wonder if your actual principle is to criticise the club whatever they are saying/doing at all costs. I make no apologies for being eternally positive about the club that has played such an important part in my life. Other opinions are, of course, permissible.
No one - myself included - has the faintest idea of how much has been spent on the new signings. Let’s remember that several players who were assumed to be amongst our highest earners have left and been removed from the wage bill. Also, it’s highly likely that the major portion of the loanees wages will be paid by their parent clubs. We also have no idea of what the owners have raised from outside investment.
From today's photos, Vokes is back on the grass, though with a bib which I assume means non-contact. Big Chris also, so it is mainly Scowen we have to be concerned about.
Surely you see the irony in being concerned about the club’s spending (and we have no idea how much that is) and then suggesting that we need more signings?
I don't think development signings are going to make too much of a dent in our finances, but it's right to wonder how we've been able to do so much first-team business. I'm not making any accusations, merely wondering - as a fan who still wants to have a club in five, 10 years' time etc.
Surely if the Couhigs are looking to sell the club, even they are unlikely to push the club into financial meltdown. Not particularly attractive if we are in that state. Hence the reason why I believe the signings have been made within our means. Who knows , it could be the parent club of the loanees are picking up the bulk of their salaries in exchange for first team football.
I understand your concerns about the long term future, but as I said in another post, we don’t know how much the signings have cost and we lost a number of big earners from our wage bill at the end of last season. Also, the biggest chunk of wages for the loanees will be picked up by their parent clubs.
You’re right. We don’t have the faintest idea of how much is being spent. and we never will unless (repeat after me)…
We. ask. The. Question.
so what’s wrong with asking the question? Or you suggesting we don’t try and use our ever eroding platforms and influence to ensure there’s a tiny bit of accountability?
Your principle is absolutely fine except for the fact you occasionally describe yourself as a journalist. Perhaps I'm a little old-fashioned but I tend to think central tenets of that profession are critical thinking and a willingness to hold power to account.
Though, to be fair, another tenet is judicious use of hyperbole, so I'll grant you your little dig at my expense. I would say that it's better for the club to have fans looking to keep it honest by occasionally asking difficult questions than blindly accepting everything it says. That way lies complacency, which does no one any favours.
But there's always going to be a role for propagandists alongside cynics. You do you and @aloysius shall continue to do @aloysius.
I also try and respond to any challenges or questions posed of me, Rather than ignore them and try and deflect.
so:
how do you feel about how the derby fans just went along with MM spending with little questioning of its affordability?
what’s wrong with asking the question about affordability?
In the light of ownership percentages increasing in the couhigs favour, further away from the fan ownership model, Are you suggesting we don’t try and use our eroding platforms and influence to ensure there’s a tiny bit of accountability?
I should, however, probably know better that journalists like to ask questions rather than answer them with a straight bat. It’s literally been a journalists job to “ask the question” yet you seem to not like other people doing so. Weird.
17 players including 5 development who were on our books last season have left our club. Included within that number I’m sure Mawson, Wing, Horgan,Obita, Gape and Thompson were on decent wages. We have replaced that 17 with 9 new signings of which you might assume Keogh, Leahy, and Vincent-Young are on decent wages . Low and Shala are young , so probably earning less. Then we have 4 loanees who we don’t know who is paying their wages. It could be the parent club is paying part or all .
So I don’t share the concerns of some of the posters who seem to suggesting the Couhigs are putting the club into financial meltdown by making so many signings.
I don’t think anyone’s suggesting a financial meltdown.
Someone just asked a question about affordability and the answer is (probably) something like you have explained. Particularly as 4 of the 9 have the vast majority of their wage paid by a parent club.
but we did also play a reported transfer fee £100k, I’ve seen some reports of a loan fee for Potts too. And that is on a background of the 3m loss last year, a similar projection this year. As mentioned by the owners.
That said, we got money for Anis and probably a fair whack from GA and his team leaving too. But we don’t know any details - lack of details mean some people ask questions because of curiosity and accountability.
Edit: don’t read if you don’t like a healthy dose of cynicism!
there’s also another elephant in the room about the replacements that have come in. They might be on lower wages because they aren’t as good as the ones they have replaced - despite the optimism of them coming in. On paper all looks good, but when the balls kicked in anger a week from now we might find we’ve also cut our cloth in terms of quality as well as cost.
I am optimistic that isn’t the case though. But finding out is what the whole season is about, isn’t it?
So, you admit to being hypocritical? I also found your earlier posts somewhat condescending. Anyway, to answer your questions:
I have no idea if Derby fans ‘went along’ with their club’s spending as I don’t read their forums. Do you?
There’s nothing wrong with asking questions about affordability but they should be addressed to the appropriate people and our owners have been up front and approachable about financial issues ever since they arrived.
See 2 above.
My profession is irrelevant to the views I express on here as a supporter with some inside knowledge of how football clubs work.
Two ways I could answer the hypocrite question. I’ll let you pick the one that applies:
takes one to know one
or
it would be rather convenient for you if I were to stop asking you follow up questions so that you aren’t held accountable for you comments going at returntosender, wouldn’t it? Clever use of my own words to try and knock me off my line of questioning won’t wash.
edit: just realised because I can be a bit slow but that was another attempt at playing the man rather than the ball wasn’t it? Throwing around insults of being a hypocrite to try and discredit me. I see what you’re doing.
And yes, I have been condescending. Mostly on purpose because I am tired of you going at people for asking questions that may have negative answer that you never want raising and you trying to wash them away. I’m not the only one that notices it. Others have raised how you consistently seem tow the club line no matter the subject.
now, the one comment I have made in this thread that I thought was going too far was my Lord Haw Haw reference as drawing a reference to him/that era can be alittle below the belt and emotive. But honestly, there’s times you would seemingly try and and spin anything from the club as positive and there’s nothing you would question objectively.
1. yes I have. Don’t know how short your memory is but the attitude from a lot of there supporters throughout the entire episode of their administration was one of entitlement and that everyone should give them a free pass because there history and forgive all the debt they accrued. That it was all evil uncle Mel and not an ounce of regret of lauding his spending with memes and whatnot about MM having the league on strings regarding the rules around spending. While then Dragging our name through the mud saying we were a disgrace and “how we would feel in their position” when we literally were in there position and had got ourselves into the championship in the first place by a hell of a lot of cloth cutting which resulted in several seasons of not being able to fill match days bench due to lack of players and funds
2.This is a discussion forum. Questions are meant to be asked here it’s how discussions are formed. I have seen Better investigative journalism in the gasroom over the years than any articles you’ve published about the club. Particularly around the Steve hayes/new stadium debacle. As well as throughout the fab owned trust time. Questions that are raised here can be discussed and information pieced together so that perfectly worded and on point questions can be raised to those in charge when we only get chance to ask one or two questions. We don’t have of haven’t had the luxury to all sit down with the owners and have a nice chat over an hour or two about things.
3.see above.
4.Your profession should give you experience of what comes when you ask the questions your interviewee may not want to answer. Don’t step on other people for also wanting to ask questions, even if you personally don’t think theres any relevance to it.
sure your views are you own and that’s fine. But stop using them as a reason to stop other people from asking there questions and having there own view.
Can I respectfully suggest that you ask the owners the questions you are keen to have answered?
Rob Couhig encourages more fan dialogue than any club owner I can think of l, be it directly in an open forum or radio/website broadcast or indirectly through emails.
Social media is great for getting things off your chest, but the best way to address issues is to take them to the people who matter.
I am looking for to the new season and I hope you are too.
Wycombe want 500k for Forino, however QPR can’t afford it as they are in the third year of their FFP cycle and have a massively reduced budget this year.
Ainsworth is trying to shift a couple more players off the wage bill so he can get Forino over the line. The owners have told him 4th bottom in the Championship is the target for this year, the expectation will go up when they enter their new FFP cycle in 24-25.
If we're still being run at a loss to gamble on promotion it's not ideal obviously but it plays into RC trying to boost investor interest, value or, really - sales price.
Reading probably a better example than Derby here as they still haven't paid there taxes, have insecure funding and presumably lower income this season yet are able to afford players we couldn't dream of - and all I see on their social media is constant threads about which (mostly ex-prem) players they should sign next.
Would remember though our fans as a group are putting far more money in on a yearly basis than the Couhigs and will be the ones mopping after them if they get it wrong so you've every right to enjoy the season whilst still asking questions. We didn't get answers when the trust still held a significant holding so that won't change in the new arrangement.
I trust in Blooms, and the new signings and season look very exciting but no need to close eyes to everything else.
I have done. Two got asked at the last phone in thanks
But ultimately I know I’ll unlikely have the opportunity, or frankly the skills or the journalistic platform to publish, a sit down a long format interview covering all the details I would like to know.
But that shouldn’t stop people trying to raise questions or concerns here or anywhere else they want to. Be it other ex gasroomers that have gone into serious media, a few guys with their podcast or maybe just one bloke with a hunch and Twitter account.
That will be hugely worrying for Rs fans and disappointing for Gaz if true, I think everyone knew he won't have a lot of money and would have to deal and work with frees but not being able to stump up £500k all summer presumably means there is also very little for signing on fees for frees. He might be looking enviously towards one or two of Blooms' deals. Upsetting the odds is what he does but there's not much contingency there and wouldn't it be both stupid and predictable if they get themselves into the state where they sack him and have to pump money in for his replacement.
It is a real mess. If things go in Gareth’s favour over the first six weeks or so of the season then he will get a chance. However, if he (GA), can’t get the results over that period he will be gone.
I can also see them still losing one or two of their better players before the transfer window closes.
It all makes you realise what a much better position we are in and yes we should be cautious about budgets and debt but we could be in a far worst position like QPR or Reading.
I am looking forward to seeing all our new signings today, although I won’t know who is who, wouldn’t it be nice to have a programme with all the names and pen pictures inside 🤦- those were the days!!
I'm sure when the QPR owners tell the fans that 21st is the target for the season the fans will accept that an get fully behind Ainsworth, Even the ones who think they are a Premiership team at heart.
If I were a QPR fan and we had next to no money, I'd be pretty worried at the idea of 500k going on a Wycombe youngster who appears in about 50% of squads a season.
Especially when unlike us, they haven't years of evidence of Gaz's mastery in the transfer market.
Bit of a double whammy there, signing Forino amongst a set of cheap lower league prospects is one thing but seemingly targeting him as a first choice and then not being able to deliver must be worrying. If they were to go to even Peterborough or Ipswich and ask for one of their best prospects the fee they'd get quoted would no doubt be multiples higher.
Forino may well double or triple his wages but the pressure could be high. We've all seen examples where one player is seen as an example of an unpopular regime etc.
Or, he could go in, play well and be seen as one of the few highlights.
I'd made peace with him going but at the moment he's staying. So hopefully we can still get a few games from him early season.
Comments
I am not aware of anyone involved as yet but just a theory.
Players that have left (since the start of last season)
Tyla Dickinson
Mawson (&Willis, who came in to replace him)
Orbita
Gape
Thompson
Mehmeti - for a fee
Kaikai
AAH2
Freeman
Wing
Horgan
Plus development squad players
Leathers
Blunkell
Kaninda
Matshazi
Hagan
I hope I didn't miss anyone this time?
I don’t recall saying that but perhaps you have a better memory than me. I do sometimes wonder if your actual principle is to criticise the club whatever they are saying/doing at all costs. I make no apologies for being eternally positive about the club that has played such an important part in my life. Other opinions are, of course, permissible.
What is extraordinary is that the same poster who raised concerns about our spending went on to say that he would like to see another four signings.
No one - myself included - has the faintest idea of how much has been spent on the new signings. Let’s remember that several players who were assumed to be amongst our highest earners have left and been removed from the wage bill. Also, it’s highly likely that the major portion of the loanees wages will be paid by their parent clubs. We also have no idea of what the owners have raised from outside investment.
From today's photos, Vokes is back on the grass, though with a bib which I assume means non-contact. Big Chris also, so it is mainly Scowen we have to be concerned about.
I simply asked a question. Why the inquest?
Surely you see the irony in being concerned about the club’s spending (and we have no idea how much that is) and then suggesting that we need more signings?
I don't think development signings are going to make too much of a dent in our finances, but it's right to wonder how we've been able to do so much first-team business. I'm not making any accusations, merely wondering - as a fan who still wants to have a club in five, 10 years' time etc.
Surely if the Couhigs are looking to sell the club, even they are unlikely to push the club into financial meltdown. Not particularly attractive if we are in that state. Hence the reason why I believe the signings have been made within our means. Who knows , it could be the parent club of the loanees are picking up the bulk of their salaries in exchange for first team football.
I understand your concerns about the long term future, but as I said in another post, we don’t know how much the signings have cost and we lost a number of big earners from our wage bill at the end of last season. Also, the biggest chunk of wages for the loanees will be picked up by their parent clubs.
You’re right. We don’t have the faintest idea of how much is being spent. and we never will unless (repeat after me)…
We. ask. The. Question.
so what’s wrong with asking the question? Or you suggesting we don’t try and use our ever eroding platforms and influence to ensure there’s a tiny bit of accountability?
And an answer to @ReturnToSenda’s question about how it’s being financed could have been as simple:
”with the players that have left on championship wages, Vs the ones we have recruited on league one wages, we’re actually saving money”.
but no, instead of attempting to answer a straight question, with a straight bat. You’re trying to take the bowlers head off instead.
To use your own quote: ‘You could have just glossed over the comment but instead you’re doubling down.’
Your principle is absolutely fine except for the fact you occasionally describe yourself as a journalist. Perhaps I'm a little old-fashioned but I tend to think central tenets of that profession are critical thinking and a willingness to hold power to account.
Though, to be fair, another tenet is judicious use of hyperbole, so I'll grant you your little dig at my expense. I would say that it's better for the club to have fans looking to keep it honest by occasionally asking difficult questions than blindly accepting everything it says. That way lies complacency, which does no one any favours.
But there's always going to be a role for propagandists alongside cynics. You do you and @aloysius shall continue to do @aloysius.
Damn right I am. At least I acknowledge it.
I also try and respond to any challenges or questions posed of me, Rather than ignore them and try and deflect.
so:
I should, however, probably know better that journalists like to ask questions rather than answer them with a straight bat. It’s literally been a journalists job to “ask the question” yet you seem to not like other people doing so. Weird.
17 players including 5 development who were on our books last season have left our club. Included within that number I’m sure Mawson, Wing, Horgan,Obita, Gape and Thompson were on decent wages. We have replaced that 17 with 9 new signings of which you might assume Keogh, Leahy, and Vincent-Young are on decent wages . Low and Shala are young , so probably earning less. Then we have 4 loanees who we don’t know who is paying their wages. It could be the parent club is paying part or all .
So I don’t share the concerns of some of the posters who seem to suggesting the Couhigs are putting the club into financial meltdown by making so many signings.
I don’t think anyone’s suggesting a financial meltdown.
Someone just asked a question about affordability and the answer is (probably) something like you have explained. Particularly as 4 of the 9 have the vast majority of their wage paid by a parent club.
but we did also play a reported transfer fee £100k, I’ve seen some reports of a loan fee for Potts too. And that is on a background of the 3m loss last year, a similar projection this year. As mentioned by the owners.
That said, we got money for Anis and probably a fair whack from GA and his team leaving too. But we don’t know any details - lack of details mean some people ask questions because of curiosity and accountability.
Edit: don’t read if you don’t like a healthy dose of cynicism!
there’s also another elephant in the room about the replacements that have come in. They might be on lower wages because they aren’t as good as the ones they have replaced - despite the optimism of them coming in. On paper all looks good, but when the balls kicked in anger a week from now we might find we’ve also cut our cloth in terms of quality as well as cost.
I am optimistic that isn’t the case though. But finding out is what the whole season is about, isn’t it?
So, you admit to being hypocritical? I also found your earlier posts somewhat condescending. Anyway, to answer your questions:
Two ways I could answer the hypocrite question. I’ll let you pick the one that applies:
takes one to know one
or
it would be rather convenient for you if I were to stop asking you follow up questions so that you aren’t held accountable for you comments going at returntosender, wouldn’t it? Clever use of my own words to try and knock me off my line of questioning won’t wash.
edit: just realised because I can be a bit slow but that was another attempt at playing the man rather than the ball wasn’t it? Throwing around insults of being a hypocrite to try and discredit me. I see what you’re doing.
And yes, I have been condescending. Mostly on purpose because I am tired of you going at people for asking questions that may have negative answer that you never want raising and you trying to wash them away. I’m not the only one that notices it. Others have raised how you consistently seem tow the club line no matter the subject.
now, the one comment I have made in this thread that I thought was going too far was my Lord Haw Haw reference as drawing a reference to him/that era can be alittle below the belt and emotive. But honestly, there’s times you would seemingly try and and spin anything from the club as positive and there’s nothing you would question objectively.
1. yes I have. Don’t know how short your memory is but the attitude from a lot of there supporters throughout the entire episode of their administration was one of entitlement and that everyone should give them a free pass because there history and forgive all the debt they accrued. That it was all evil uncle Mel and not an ounce of regret of lauding his spending with memes and whatnot about MM having the league on strings regarding the rules around spending. While then Dragging our name through the mud saying we were a disgrace and “how we would feel in their position” when we literally were in there position and had got ourselves into the championship in the first place by a hell of a lot of cloth cutting which resulted in several seasons of not being able to fill match days bench due to lack of players and funds
2.This is a discussion forum. Questions are meant to be asked here it’s how discussions are formed. I have seen Better investigative journalism in the gasroom over the years than any articles you’ve published about the club. Particularly around the Steve hayes/new stadium debacle. As well as throughout the fab owned trust time. Questions that are raised here can be discussed and information pieced together so that perfectly worded and on point questions can be raised to those in charge when we only get chance to ask one or two questions. We don’t have of haven’t had the luxury to all sit down with the owners and have a nice chat over an hour or two about things.
3.see above.
4.Your profession should give you experience of what comes when you ask the questions your interviewee may not want to answer. Don’t step on other people for also wanting to ask questions, even if you personally don’t think theres any relevance to it.
sure your views are you own and that’s fine. But stop using them as a reason to stop other people from asking there questions and having there own view.
Can I respectfully suggest that you ask the owners the questions you are keen to have answered?
Rob Couhig encourages more fan dialogue than any club owner I can think of l, be it directly in an open forum or radio/website broadcast or indirectly through emails.
Social media is great for getting things off your chest, but the best way to address issues is to take them to the people who matter.
I am looking for to the new season and I hope you are too.
Wycombe want 500k for Forino, however QPR can’t afford it as they are in the third year of their FFP cycle and have a massively reduced budget this year.
Ainsworth is trying to shift a couple more players off the wage bill so he can get Forino over the line. The owners have told him 4th bottom in the Championship is the target for this year, the expectation will go up when they enter their new FFP cycle in 24-25.
If we're still being run at a loss to gamble on promotion it's not ideal obviously but it plays into RC trying to boost investor interest, value or, really - sales price.
Reading probably a better example than Derby here as they still haven't paid there taxes, have insecure funding and presumably lower income this season yet are able to afford players we couldn't dream of - and all I see on their social media is constant threads about which (mostly ex-prem) players they should sign next.
Would remember though our fans as a group are putting far more money in on a yearly basis than the Couhigs and will be the ones mopping after them if they get it wrong so you've every right to enjoy the season whilst still asking questions. We didn't get answers when the trust still held a significant holding so that won't change in the new arrangement.
I trust in Blooms, and the new signings and season look very exciting but no need to close eyes to everything else.
I have done. Two got asked at the last phone in thanks
But ultimately I know I’ll unlikely have the opportunity, or frankly the skills or the journalistic platform to publish, a sit down a long format interview covering all the details I would like to know.
But that shouldn’t stop people trying to raise questions or concerns here or anywhere else they want to. Be it other ex gasroomers that have gone into serious media, a few guys with their podcast or maybe just one bloke with a hunch and Twitter account.
That will be hugely worrying for Rs fans and disappointing for Gaz if true, I think everyone knew he won't have a lot of money and would have to deal and work with frees but not being able to stump up £500k all summer presumably means there is also very little for signing on fees for frees. He might be looking enviously towards one or two of Blooms' deals. Upsetting the odds is what he does but there's not much contingency there and wouldn't it be both stupid and predictable if they get themselves into the state where they sack him and have to pump money in for his replacement.
It is a real mess. If things go in Gareth’s favour over the first six weeks or so of the season then he will get a chance. However, if he (GA), can’t get the results over that period he will be gone.
I can also see them still losing one or two of their better players before the transfer window closes.
It all makes you realise what a much better position we are in and yes we should be cautious about budgets and debt but we could be in a far worst position like QPR or Reading.
I am looking forward to seeing all our new signings today, although I won’t know who is who, wouldn’t it be nice to have a programme with all the names and pen pictures inside 🤦- those were the days!!
I'm sure when the QPR owners tell the fans that 21st is the target for the season the fans will accept that an get fully behind Ainsworth, Even the ones who think they are a Premiership team at heart.
If I were a QPR fan and we had next to no money, I'd be pretty worried at the idea of 500k going on a Wycombe youngster who appears in about 50% of squads a season.
Especially when unlike us, they haven't years of evidence of Gaz's mastery in the transfer market.
Bit of a double whammy there, signing Forino amongst a set of cheap lower league prospects is one thing but seemingly targeting him as a first choice and then not being able to deliver must be worrying. If they were to go to even Peterborough or Ipswich and ask for one of their best prospects the fee they'd get quoted would no doubt be multiples higher.
It would definitely be a risky move all round.
Forino may well double or triple his wages but the pressure could be high. We've all seen examples where one player is seen as an example of an unpopular regime etc.
Or, he could go in, play well and be seen as one of the few highlights.
I'd made peace with him going but at the moment he's staying. So hopefully we can still get a few games from him early season.