An aspect of having a second access road, which tends to be overlooked, is that it could allow the capacity of AP to be increased without any additional works on the stadium. (At least this is what I believe from information I've previously been given).
Currently, I believe, our capacity is limited due to the problems of access for emergency service vehicles. A second access road would help to overcome that issue.
I'm know increased capacity doesn't equal increased crowds but my point is maybe the Couhigs don't need to spend monies on the stadium infrastructure to increase capacity. A new road makes better economic sense when viewed from that perspective in my view.
A new road only makes better economic sense if it delivers more revenue. Last season I think I am right in saying we didn't sell out any games. So had stadium capacity been 1000 higher than it actually is, the additional revenue from increased stadium capacity would have been precisely nil.
That may change if we were in the Championship if we sold out a significant number of games.
I may disagree with @perfidious_albion on a lot of things, but he is right here. I don't go to Adams Park to drink, eat me dinner, enjoy luxurious latrines, watch fireworks or dancing girls (Though improvements in most of the above would nice) but to watch a team pushing for success...if we build it they will come. MB is an unknown quantity - and I know I am always on the smiley side of predictions - but I am optimistic for the season so far. Hot water or not! As we know most grounds are a ****hole anyway aren't they?
I've been saying this to mates for ages, winning football brings in the attendances, whilst that in turn improves the atmosphere, look at the home games end of season before last, including that epic MK play off match, bigger attendances better atmosphere. Just get it right on the pitch.
I agree with you and @perfidious_albion about success on the pitch being the number one priority, but we have had success in recent years (3 appearances in the playoffs in the last 6 seasons) without achieving a significant rise in attendances.
That’s a slightly different point you make to mine Alan. Seems you are referencing the lack of residual attendance as a knock on from relative success. Just because we got to Wembley doesn’t mean all those ‘day trippers’ would attend two months later when we played Forest Green.
I’m talking about the here and now. If we are top of the league at Christmas the place will be full. If we go up and Leeds come to town the place will be full.
What I meant was that attendances haven’t risen by much even though we have consistently been in and around the top six in recent seasons. I know there are factors out of our control like the proximity of bigger clubs in London etc, but it’s still disappointing.
We're going to need more and more money, wages will continue to rise, buildings need fixing, At some level we have to try and also attract those fans who are less hardcore too who do value different things.
I think expenditure on the ground with a view to it bringing more back in the future is the sort of thing some kinds of investors might be more willing to pay for rather than being asked for money to go straight out on players and their agents. Ultimately they probably won't get it back but might think they are clever enough to.
The catchment area and the proximity of bigger clubs means we will never draw much above the current ground capacity whilst in league 1. If we could get up into the championship and battle at the top end, then we may be able to draw some of those London club fans who travel up to London from our area to watch the Chelsea’s, Spurs etc.
It's such a shame we had an empty ground in the Champo for so many reasons - one of them being that it would have been nice to see what kind of average crowd we could expect there.
It's absolutely surreal that the season which would have been nailed on for our best ever attended, instead was the worst.
I would @Malone if I did not drive to and from the non-access road chairlift free stadium. I have sometimes taken a weak lemon drink in the past...I think that was what they called the lager anyway. But you are right, we are possibly not the target...I mean I don't even buy a shirt.
I do wonder whether the ‘couldn’t watch that every week’ narrative that surrounded the team under GA played a part in not significantly expanding the core support.
i appreciate it wasn’t particularly deserved and for those of us already emotionally invested it the club it was relatively amusing but irrelevant, but would the perceived threat of anti-football have put off more casual football followers, even when we were winning?
(And I’m not being remotely critical - it was great times to already be a Wycombe supporter).
Can anyone remember whether the thrilling football under John Gorman resulted in increased crowds (even if we mostly seemed to draw)? I know it did under Jim Kerman an MO’N.
I agree with you. If the road has been built before RC sells the club, he could easily add up to £2 million onto the value because of what that road could bring into the club.
Any owner or investor will have opportunities to add to the stadium and its facilities which in turn will bring in more revenue. If there are more boxes and hospitality, that helps the balance sheet while if there are more spaces to hire out for functions, that too helps us. Rob will know this and will be ensuring that these opportunities are not down-played!
First we must continue to invest in the team and then continue to invest in the team. As a number of gasroomers have said previously, build a winning team and the rest will follow.
I have posted many times, the club has broken the connection with the youth of HW. The collapse of the community scheme has left a big gap in young people getting the bug early. The community scheme ran Saturday clubs at at least 3 schools, after school clubs in most primary schools. The session I was involved in had 70 players at least 30% wearing Wycombe shirts. The marquee with activities. Player meet and greets. At least 2 FA awards. Penalties at half time 30 kids, brothers sisters, mums dads and grandparents, all buying chips and drinks. If just 10% came back 30 kids 24 games = 72 new fans each year. That's only counting the penalty takers. The cashless bollocks, My younger family cant easily go with their mates as they don't have credit cards.
We’ve had an increase of 22% since 17/18 when we were promoted from League 2. Just over a thousand extra fans through the gate, though over half of these are probably away fans.
We are surrounded by bigger clubs and only 30 minutes on the train takes you to London and all the big London teams.
High Wycombe in general and the surrounds is not a footballing community.
Access to the ground is one of the worst in the League.
We are one of the most expensive non Premier League clubs to visit for tickets, drink, food and parking.
Though this has been our most successful period on the pitch for five years the quality of the play has generally not been pleasing on the eye to a neutral or occasional visitor, resulting in me rarely bringing friends.
Even if the football was more watchable I do think our limit is 6000 in League One with the current pricing and teams in the League this season.
Not wishing to pick an argument, but you have listed several negatives in support of your case without mentioning any positives.
Taking your points:
It is a lot more expensive to visit the bigger clubs, especially those in London, and that’s if you can get tickets.
The owners are trying to improve access which is poor, but that can be said of many clubs as those who regularly attend away games will testify.
In terms of pricing, according to a recent poll there are 12 clubs in League One (half the division) whose cheapest season tickets are more expensive than Wycombe’s. We now have new food suppliers who will hopefully address the issue of high prices.
Quality of play is subjective and MB has promised a style of play that is different to his predecessor.
Our club has a lot going for it compared to so many other at our level and that’s the message we should be sending out .
At the last count the terrace floor and a few of the roofs, the toilets and tea bars all needed work anyway, if you're doing that anyway it seems a bit silly not to future proof it in a way that allows you to take advantage of bigger crowds if they come.
I reckon you might be able to encourage 250 people to cycle to the ground if there was a bit of a push on that - combined with some storage facilities and maybe a small incentive like a free cuppa.
Damn sight cheaper than a road and guaranteed to increase the club's sustainability score.
To add to @glasshalffull's positivity (I too am starting to get fatigued by the continual griping and complaining about every tiny thing, without due balance) I would say that, whilst marginally less successful, last year's style of play became quite pleasant to watch at times. I remember particularly those 30-odd passes around Bristol Rovers' box running their defenders ragged and sucking all their outfield players back behind the ball, and thinking "we CAN do it..." Our style definitely evolved last year, even when GA and Dobbo were still here, and I'm looking forward to more of that this coming season. As last season wore on the "you know what you're going to get with Wycombe" management brigade were gradually finding their cliches a little outdated.
I dont buy the - play is so.poor I would not bring a friend - I would bring a friend to football whatever the quality...because its your friend and - poor play or not- you're drinking having a good time and it's football! I've seen some very poor games at other grounds with fans of other teams...but enjoyed the day and would go back. And to be fair I've found games the last few years very exciting...and obviously this year we will walk the league while displaying silky skills.
I think the major problem with the poor-quality play ---- and if we take our blue-tinted glasses off I think many will grudgingly admit they're looking forward to a less-agricultural style under Matt this season ---- is that the central proposition to the Couhigs' masterplan was to build international subscribers watching matches online. Long-term fans may discount the odd long ball if it helped grind out a 1-0 win. Others with no natural affiliation to Wycombe, with the options of subscribing to Wrexham TV or any of the other clubs broadcasting via iFollow, may feel less inclined.
The only point under the Couhigs when I thought Ainsworth's reign may have been curtailed was when we were playing horrible safety-first football in the Championship and still losing, back in January 2021. It's hard to build a subscriber base when that was the fare. I suspect that the Couhigs were getting that sort of feedback from their friends in Louisiana -- no matter how much good will, few would get up early to watch longball. Maybe part of what made them appoint Matt so quickly was his desire to change the style -- which in turn could help build subscribers overseas.
@Vital completely agree and I’ve said this many times before.
Ainsworth’s style of football was direct and entertaining. It’s not a guilty pleasure or something I’m lying about - I genuinely enjoy direct football (played well.)
Akinfenwa is one of the footballers I have enjoyed watching the most, and I don’t see why his unique skill set is of any less entertainment value than, say, a pacy, tricky winger.
Compare Ainsworth’s approach to that of Peter Taylor, which was genuinely dull football that could make watching Wycombe a chore.
Comments
I don't think their idea of 'matchday experience' will ever fully align with that of the majority of fans
An aspect of having a second access road, which tends to be overlooked, is that it could allow the capacity of AP to be increased without any additional works on the stadium. (At least this is what I believe from information I've previously been given).
Currently, I believe, our capacity is limited due to the problems of access for emergency service vehicles. A second access road would help to overcome that issue.
I'm know increased capacity doesn't equal increased crowds but my point is maybe the Couhigs don't need to spend monies on the stadium infrastructure to increase capacity. A new road makes better economic sense when viewed from that perspective in my view.
The exit strategy may well have been escalated by Pete's decision & the fact that the ground was never up for discussion ( sale).
I'm not sure your analysis makes sense @Twizz
A new road only makes better economic sense if it delivers more revenue. Last season I think I am right in saying we didn't sell out any games. So had stadium capacity been 1000 higher than it actually is, the additional revenue from increased stadium capacity would have been precisely nil.
That may change if we were in the Championship if we sold out a significant number of games.
I may disagree with @perfidious_albion on a lot of things, but he is right here. I don't go to Adams Park to drink, eat me dinner, enjoy luxurious latrines, watch fireworks or dancing girls (Though improvements in most of the above would nice) but to watch a team pushing for success...if we build it they will come. MB is an unknown quantity - and I know I am always on the smiley side of predictions - but I am optimistic for the season so far. Hot water or not! As we know most grounds are a ****hole anyway aren't they?
I've been saying this to mates for ages, winning football brings in the attendances, whilst that in turn improves the atmosphere, look at the home games end of season before last, including that epic MK play off match, bigger attendances better atmosphere. Just get it right on the pitch.
I agree with you and @perfidious_albion about success on the pitch being the number one priority, but we have had success in recent years (3 appearances in the playoffs in the last 6 seasons) without achieving a significant rise in attendances.
That’s a slightly different point you make to mine Alan. Seems you are referencing the lack of residual attendance as a knock on from relative success. Just because we got to Wembley doesn’t mean all those ‘day trippers’ would attend two months later when we played Forest Green.
I’m talking about the here and now. If we are top of the league at Christmas the place will be full. If we go up and Leeds come to town the place will be full.
What I meant was that attendances haven’t risen by much even though we have consistently been in and around the top six in recent seasons. I know there are factors out of our control like the proximity of bigger clubs in London etc, but it’s still disappointing.
We're going to need more and more money, wages will continue to rise, buildings need fixing, At some level we have to try and also attract those fans who are less hardcore too who do value different things.
I think expenditure on the ground with a view to it bringing more back in the future is the sort of thing some kinds of investors might be more willing to pay for rather than being asked for money to go straight out on players and their agents. Ultimately they probably won't get it back but might think they are clever enough to.
The catchment area and the proximity of bigger clubs means we will never draw much above the current ground capacity whilst in league 1. If we could get up into the championship and battle at the top end, then we may be able to draw some of those London club fans who travel up to London from our area to watch the Chelsea’s, Spurs etc.
It's such a shame we had an empty ground in the Champo for so many reasons - one of them being that it would have been nice to see what kind of average crowd we could expect there.
It's absolutely surreal that the season which would have been nailed on for our best ever attended, instead was the worst.
We're two of a kind old son. Turn up at 2.59, nod at your match day pal, watch and enjoy the game, leave at 5.17 (1 min after the game ends).
However, if everyone was like us the funds would be pretty low.
Guzzling on beer and burgers for hours before and after the game is a critical part of the day for many many 100s.
I would @Malone if I did not drive to and from the non-access road chairlift free stadium. I have sometimes taken a weak lemon drink in the past...I think that was what they called the lager anyway. But you are right, we are possibly not the target...I mean I don't even buy a shirt.
No shirt, park outside the ground, no burgers but I do buy a £2.75 Diet Coke (was £2.50) at HT if I’m feeling flushed.
I do wonder whether the ‘couldn’t watch that every week’ narrative that surrounded the team under GA played a part in not significantly expanding the core support.
i appreciate it wasn’t particularly deserved and for those of us already emotionally invested it the club it was relatively amusing but irrelevant, but would the perceived threat of anti-football have put off more casual football followers, even when we were winning?
(And I’m not being remotely critical - it was great times to already be a Wycombe supporter).
Can anyone remember whether the thrilling football under John Gorman resulted in increased crowds (even if we mostly seemed to draw)? I know it did under Jim Kerman an MO’N.
I agree with you. If the road has been built before RC sells the club, he could easily add up to £2 million onto the value because of what that road could bring into the club.
Any owner or investor will have opportunities to add to the stadium and its facilities which in turn will bring in more revenue. If there are more boxes and hospitality, that helps the balance sheet while if there are more spaces to hire out for functions, that too helps us. Rob will know this and will be ensuring that these opportunities are not down-played!
First we must continue to invest in the team and then continue to invest in the team. As a number of gasroomers have said previously, build a winning team and the rest will follow.
Didn't Paul Lambert ask MO'N for advice as the new manager and get the reply 'Win games'
That's it, basically. Win games and everything else will take care of itself.
I have posted many times, the club has broken the connection with the youth of HW. The collapse of the community scheme has left a big gap in young people getting the bug early. The community scheme ran Saturday clubs at at least 3 schools, after school clubs in most primary schools. The session I was involved in had 70 players at least 30% wearing Wycombe shirts. The marquee with activities. Player meet and greets. At least 2 FA awards. Penalties at half time 30 kids, brothers sisters, mums dads and grandparents, all buying chips and drinks. If just 10% came back 30 kids 24 games = 72 new fans each year. That's only counting the penalty takers. The cashless bollocks, My younger family cant easily go with their mates as they don't have credit cards.
We’ve had an increase of 22% since 17/18 when we were promoted from League 2. Just over a thousand extra fans through the gate, though over half of these are probably away fans.
We are surrounded by bigger clubs and only 30 minutes on the train takes you to London and all the big London teams.
High Wycombe in general and the surrounds is not a footballing community.
Access to the ground is one of the worst in the League.
We are one of the most expensive non Premier League clubs to visit for tickets, drink, food and parking.
Though this has been our most successful period on the pitch for five years the quality of the play has generally not been pleasing on the eye to a neutral or occasional visitor, resulting in me rarely bringing friends.
Even if the football was more watchable I do think our limit is 6000 in League One with the current pricing and teams in the League this season.
Bang on
Not wishing to pick an argument, but you have listed several negatives in support of your case without mentioning any positives.
Taking your points:
It is a lot more expensive to visit the bigger clubs, especially those in London, and that’s if you can get tickets.
The owners are trying to improve access which is poor, but that can be said of many clubs as those who regularly attend away games will testify.
In terms of pricing, according to a recent poll there are 12 clubs in League One (half the division) whose cheapest season tickets are more expensive than Wycombe’s. We now have new food suppliers who will hopefully address the issue of high prices.
Quality of play is subjective and MB has promised a style of play that is different to his predecessor.
Our club has a lot going for it compared to so many other at our level and that’s the message we should be sending out .
At the last count the terrace floor and a few of the roofs, the toilets and tea bars all needed work anyway, if you're doing that anyway it seems a bit silly not to future proof it in a way that allows you to take advantage of bigger crowds if they come.
I reckon you might be able to encourage 250 people to cycle to the ground if there was a bit of a push on that - combined with some storage facilities and maybe a small incentive like a free cuppa.
Damn sight cheaper than a road and guaranteed to increase the club's sustainability score.
To add to @glasshalffull's positivity (I too am starting to get fatigued by the continual griping and complaining about every tiny thing, without due balance) I would say that, whilst marginally less successful, last year's style of play became quite pleasant to watch at times. I remember particularly those 30-odd passes around Bristol Rovers' box running their defenders ragged and sucking all their outfield players back behind the ball, and thinking "we CAN do it..." Our style definitely evolved last year, even when GA and Dobbo were still here, and I'm looking forward to more of that this coming season. As last season wore on the "you know what you're going to get with Wycombe" management brigade were gradually finding their cliches a little outdated.
I dont buy the - play is so.poor I would not bring a friend - I would bring a friend to football whatever the quality...because its your friend and - poor play or not- you're drinking having a good time and it's football! I've seen some very poor games at other grounds with fans of other teams...but enjoyed the day and would go back. And to be fair I've found games the last few years very exciting...and obviously this year we will walk the league while displaying silky skills.
I think the major problem with the poor-quality play ---- and if we take our blue-tinted glasses off I think many will grudgingly admit they're looking forward to a less-agricultural style under Matt this season ---- is that the central proposition to the Couhigs' masterplan was to build international subscribers watching matches online. Long-term fans may discount the odd long ball if it helped grind out a 1-0 win. Others with no natural affiliation to Wycombe, with the options of subscribing to Wrexham TV or any of the other clubs broadcasting via iFollow, may feel less inclined.
The only point under the Couhigs when I thought Ainsworth's reign may have been curtailed was when we were playing horrible safety-first football in the Championship and still losing, back in January 2021. It's hard to build a subscriber base when that was the fare. I suspect that the Couhigs were getting that sort of feedback from their friends in Louisiana -- no matter how much good will, few would get up early to watch longball. Maybe part of what made them appoint Matt so quickly was his desire to change the style -- which in turn could help build subscribers overseas.
I liked Gareth's style of play, and it gave us our most successful period ever.
Get the ball forward quickly - you can't score while you're pussyfooting about passing it around at the back.
@Vital completely agree and I’ve said this many times before.
Ainsworth’s style of football was direct and entertaining. It’s not a guilty pleasure or something I’m lying about - I genuinely enjoy direct football (played well.)
Akinfenwa is one of the footballers I have enjoyed watching the most, and I don’t see why his unique skill set is of any less entertainment value than, say, a pacy, tricky winger.
Compare Ainsworth’s approach to that of Peter Taylor, which was genuinely dull football that could make watching Wycombe a chore.