The first sentence is what I was bleating on about all summer. The most important attribute for our goalkeeper was distribution. They had to be in the door on day 1 to practise putting balls in Vokes territory. It has arguably been the most important / consistent part of our tactic for 5+ years.
Stuck record. Maybe signing some actual first team players rather than a raft of kids in the summer might have been a good idea. Patience running thin.
As @glasshalffull has said - you have to sometimes look at how well the opposition has played. Stevenage were quicker, passed better, created space better, competed better & finished better. That was a woeful Wycombe performance.
I’m now doubting the point of going to these games (or the Carabao Cup) when we obviously don’t seem to take them that seriously. I simply don’t see what was gained from that tonight? But well played Stevenage - the better team by far!
One final word……I thought the referee was absolutely outstanding tonight. He got all the decisions right, didn’t stand for any nonsense, was very understated in his manner yet always had a smile on his face. My man-of-the-match.
I am not renowned for praising referees, but I said to the assessor tonight that he is one of the best I’ve seen for a long time. Couldn’t argue with any of his decisions and at no time did he seek the limelight. Stevenage were excellent, we were very poor and it’s difficult to take many positives from that performance.
Would like to see GA experiment with a different style of play in these type of games. Something along the lines of a possession type game, I can;t remember the last time I've seen us keep the ball for 10+ passes. We were unable to control the 2nd half against Derby.
If we are using these games to assess how good the development squad are in match conditions, it makes sense for the match to be as similar as possible to a ‘first team’ game.
The development squad model is an excellent one for a club of our size, in theory. The practice is another matter.
The 97 fans who took the trouble to attend last night should be invited up to the training ground to meet those that ‘played’ last night for the post match assessment session. A novel form of ‘fan engagement’ and a steep learning curve for the youngsters. Won’t happen of course as positive affirmation is in the coaching manual and these delicate flowers need nurturing (which is strange given how brutal the game can turn out to be).
Most of these kids are at the last chance saloon for a professional career. Right now most look like they are at Marlow Rd just to put the cones out and provide opposing bodies to the first team. As others have said it is their chance to shine so if they can’t be up for such an opportunity then ship em out to lower league clubs and let them find their natural level there.
If those that paid a few quid at the gate or on tv aren’t happy with this showing imagine how Rob feels about how his investment is working out this morning.
I think a lot depends on who is up top. We become a lot more direct whenever Vokes (or Bayo in the old days) is up top. When we don't have Vokes we definitely pass the ball around more. The Northampton 1st Round League Cup game sticks in mind from this season - we played a lot of passing football that night into a front three of AAH, De Barr and Mellor.
That is a very unfair assessment based on one game, irrespective of how poorly we played. Let’s not forget that the development squad has produced two first team regulars, one of whom is being talked about on the gasroom as a possible £5m player. Out of a squad of around a dozen young players that is an above average ratio. The clue is in the word ‘development’ and it’s far too early to write them off. Most of the youngsters who played last night were in the team that drew with Tottenham U21s in the same competition and it was noticeable that a number of PL club U21s were beaten by EFL teams last night. On what evidence do you call them ‘delicate flowers’ and how often have you seen them play? Rob is far too sensible to expect an immediate return from the development squad, it seems that you are expecting instant results.
The result is still a bit of an inditement of the top end development system in my opinion. A lot of the lads we are picking up are out of U21 and U23 academy football. Therefore they have never played a meaningful competitive game ever. So there is a massive learning curve for them. A few will adapt quickly and we have seen some of that already, but they are in the minority. Some will adapt slower and we need to be patient with those players and develop them patiently. Sadly some won't and they will slip further down the pyramid probably on the same trajectory.
Losing a game in a competition most fans advocate boycotting is hardly the time to ring hands. Minutes for Kaikai. Minutes for Vokes. Minutes for fringe players. That's the positive.
Although on the whole I do feel the season hasn't started yet. Not sure why. The frustrating transfer window? The lack of friendlies? I still feel we are in early August.
I’m sure your objection (and the unnecessary swear word - no doubt born of understandable frustration) will be duly noted.
At the weekend I said on here that I was looking forward to last night’s game as (and here’s the rub) there was more talent amongst fringe players and development squad players now than in previous seasons.
I’m afraid last night’s disjointed performance made a mockery of my words. I happily chipped in my tenner and settled down, hoping to see a performance similar to the Carabao Cup game at Sixfields.
I was surprised to see Sam Vokes in the starting lineup but smugly assumed that he would be quite a handful for Stevenage’s largely second string League 2 defence. He did have a cracking shot, brilliantly saved by Chapman, in the second half but was largely anonymous, not helped by some erratic kicks by Tyla Dickinson and indifferent service from defenders and midfield. I couldn’t help being reminded of how active and involved Uche Ikpeazu used to be. Sad loss.
Impressed again by Pattenden, and I thought Young and Leathers showed a lot of potential.
The EFL Trophy is an excellent opportunity for development squad players to get used to playing together in competitive football (as opposed to the odd substitute appearance in the first team) so it is sad that future opportunities this season may be confined to a single game against Peterborough.
@glasshalffull I choose not to comment on your unremitting views, we all know what we will get from you. I was not surprised you felt the need to object to my equally valid opinion however.
That said, I do feel the need to defend my own. These are not based on one performance they are based on observing two years of development players and indeed U-21 football in general.
We have two excellent players from the system, great news, possibly more than anticipated. Ruthlessness with others, for me, remains an imperative. Beyond the two that have made it the defenestration of Pendlebury (despite two goals) is the most encouraging sign that such checks and balances are in place.
All this from a position of wanting the best success for my club.
I said it was a very unfair assessment which is an equally valid opinion to your own. I asked you how often you have seen these youngsters play and what evidence you have that they are ‘delicate flowers’ but you didn’t answer those questions. This is a forum for debate which means that your views-and mine- should be up for discussion without making sly digs and I am just as entitled to be optimistic as you are to be pessimistic.
How I would love to see someone like Adam Al Abd come in to nurture our young centre halves. Both Wakely and Forino are impressive physical specimens, but both have yet to master the art of defending. Along with Paul McCarthy, Adam is the best defensive reader of the game, I've seen in a Wanderers shirt, the way he marshalled the back four and done the ugly side, is what I think both of these young defenders need. They both look so raw and honest at the minute.
They both always seem very eager to get well forward at every opportunity - not just for free kicks and corners either. I suppose that is a double-edged sword (if that’s the correct expression) as they inevitably find themselves having to chase back to defend after the opposition have seized upon yet another misplaced pass.
I would put Mawson in a different category, cultured, superb at bringing the ball out, and winning the ball cleanly.
Adam Al Abd was rugged, little pace, and quite short for a centre half, but he knew every trick to combat his limitations, and got those around him to follow suit.
Comments
The first sentence is what I was bleating on about all summer. The most important attribute for our goalkeeper was distribution. They had to be in the door on day 1 to practise putting balls in Vokes territory. It has arguably been the most important / consistent part of our tactic for 5+ years.
Peterborough beat Spurs B team so our game with them will decide who progresses.
The hotchpotch nature of our lineups just invites inspid displays.
Hopefully quickly forgotten about at the weekend d.
GA’s view:
https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/sport/22328406.gareth-ainsworth-wycombes-3-0-away-loss-stevenage/
Just checking for a friend. Sounds from your post that you were impressed by Arnold's look rather than his football.
Glad he gave you something to be cheerful about.
Cup games just aren't our thing are they?
The last time we played this flat the crowd was almost exactly 100 times larger!
Stuck record. Maybe signing some actual first team players rather than a raft of kids in the summer might have been a good idea. Patience running thin.
embarrassing result considering. the team we played
As @glasshalffull has said - you have to sometimes look at how well the opposition has played. Stevenage were quicker, passed better, created space better, competed better & finished better. That was a woeful Wycombe performance.
I’m now doubting the point of going to these games (or the Carabao Cup) when we obviously don’t seem to take them that seriously. I simply don’t see what was gained from that tonight? But well played Stevenage - the better team by far!
One final word……I thought the referee was absolutely outstanding tonight. He got all the decisions right, didn’t stand for any nonsense, was very understated in his manner yet always had a smile on his face. My man-of-the-match.
Good point that Andy, I’d barely noticed which as they say is usually the first sign he’s had a good game.
I am not renowned for praising referees, but I said to the assessor tonight that he is one of the best I’ve seen for a long time. Couldn’t argue with any of his decisions and at no time did he seek the limelight. Stevenage were excellent, we were very poor and it’s difficult to take many positives from that performance.
Agree about the ref, thought he was very good.
Bit more from GA about tonight’s team:
https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/sport/22331729.gareth-ainsworth-wycombes-injury-woes-stevenage-defeat/
“Today [September 20] was to get fitness for Sam and for Sullay, and we need to get him [Kaikai] up to speed as he is a good player.”
Would like to see GA experiment with a different style of play in these type of games. Something along the lines of a possession type game, I can;t remember the last time I've seen us keep the ball for 10+ passes. We were unable to control the 2nd half against Derby.
If we are using these games to assess how good the development squad are in match conditions, it makes sense for the match to be as similar as possible to a ‘first team’ game.
The development squad model is an excellent one for a club of our size, in theory. The practice is another matter.
The 97 fans who took the trouble to attend last night should be invited up to the training ground to meet those that ‘played’ last night for the post match assessment session. A novel form of ‘fan engagement’ and a steep learning curve for the youngsters. Won’t happen of course as positive affirmation is in the coaching manual and these delicate flowers need nurturing (which is strange given how brutal the game can turn out to be).
Most of these kids are at the last chance saloon for a professional career. Right now most look like they are at Marlow Rd just to put the cones out and provide opposing bodies to the first team. As others have said it is their chance to shine so if they can’t be up for such an opportunity then ship em out to lower league clubs and let them find their natural level there.
If those that paid a few quid at the gate or on tv aren’t happy with this showing imagine how Rob feels about how his investment is working out this morning.
I think a lot depends on who is up top. We become a lot more direct whenever Vokes (or Bayo in the old days) is up top. When we don't have Vokes we definitely pass the ball around more. The Northampton 1st Round League Cup game sticks in mind from this season - we played a lot of passing football that night into a front three of AAH, De Barr and Mellor.
I don't mind conceding a few goals in this tinpot tourney based on playing a defence with little first XI experience and a lack of cohesion together.
However, I do object to creating fuck all chances or goals with that attacking force. That is not just worrying, but a bit of an embarrassment.
That is a very unfair assessment based on one game, irrespective of how poorly we played. Let’s not forget that the development squad has produced two first team regulars, one of whom is being talked about on the gasroom as a possible £5m player. Out of a squad of around a dozen young players that is an above average ratio. The clue is in the word ‘development’ and it’s far too early to write them off. Most of the youngsters who played last night were in the team that drew with Tottenham U21s in the same competition and it was noticeable that a number of PL club U21s were beaten by EFL teams last night. On what evidence do you call them ‘delicate flowers’ and how often have you seen them play? Rob is far too sensible to expect an immediate return from the development squad, it seems that you are expecting instant results.
The result is still a bit of an inditement of the top end development system in my opinion. A lot of the lads we are picking up are out of U21 and U23 academy football. Therefore they have never played a meaningful competitive game ever. So there is a massive learning curve for them. A few will adapt quickly and we have seen some of that already, but they are in the minority. Some will adapt slower and we need to be patient with those players and develop them patiently. Sadly some won't and they will slip further down the pyramid probably on the same trajectory.
Losing a game in a competition most fans advocate boycotting is hardly the time to ring hands. Minutes for Kaikai. Minutes for Vokes. Minutes for fringe players. That's the positive.
Although on the whole I do feel the season hasn't started yet. Not sure why. The frustrating transfer window? The lack of friendlies? I still feel we are in early August.
I’m sure your objection (and the unnecessary swear word - no doubt born of understandable frustration) will be duly noted.
At the weekend I said on here that I was looking forward to last night’s game as (and here’s the rub) there was more talent amongst fringe players and development squad players now than in previous seasons.
I’m afraid last night’s disjointed performance made a mockery of my words. I happily chipped in my tenner and settled down, hoping to see a performance similar to the Carabao Cup game at Sixfields.
I was surprised to see Sam Vokes in the starting lineup but smugly assumed that he would be quite a handful for Stevenage’s largely second string League 2 defence. He did have a cracking shot, brilliantly saved by Chapman, in the second half but was largely anonymous, not helped by some erratic kicks by Tyla Dickinson and indifferent service from defenders and midfield. I couldn’t help being reminded of how active and involved Uche Ikpeazu used to be. Sad loss.
Impressed again by Pattenden, and I thought Young and Leathers showed a lot of potential.
The EFL Trophy is an excellent opportunity for development squad players to get used to playing together in competitive football (as opposed to the odd substitute appearance in the first team) so it is sad that future opportunities this season may be confined to a single game against Peterborough.
GK kicking is going to be a big issue for us. Was absolutely foundational to last season's successes.
@glasshalffull I choose not to comment on your unremitting views, we all know what we will get from you. I was not surprised you felt the need to object to my equally valid opinion however.
That said, I do feel the need to defend my own. These are not based on one performance they are based on observing two years of development players and indeed U-21 football in general.
We have two excellent players from the system, great news, possibly more than anticipated. Ruthlessness with others, for me, remains an imperative. Beyond the two that have made it the defenestration of Pendlebury (despite two goals) is the most encouraging sign that such checks and balances are in place.
All this from a position of wanting the best success for my club.
I said it was a very unfair assessment which is an equally valid opinion to your own. I asked you how often you have seen these youngsters play and what evidence you have that they are ‘delicate flowers’ but you didn’t answer those questions. This is a forum for debate which means that your views-and mine- should be up for discussion without making sly digs and I am just as entitled to be optimistic as you are to be pessimistic.
How I would love to see someone like Adam Al Abd come in to nurture our young centre halves. Both Wakely and Forino are impressive physical specimens, but both have yet to master the art of defending. Along with Paul McCarthy, Adam is the best defensive reader of the game, I've seen in a Wanderers shirt, the way he marshalled the back four and done the ugly side, is what I think both of these young defenders need. They both look so raw and honest at the minute.
They both always seem very eager to get well forward at every opportunity - not just for free kicks and corners either. I suppose that is a double-edged sword (if that’s the correct expression) as they inevitably find themselves having to chase back to defend after the opposition have seized upon yet another misplaced pass.
I’d add Mawson to that list.
I wouldn't add Mawson to the list.
I'd stick him miles ahead of anyone right at the very top of it
Darius Charles deserves a mention as well
I would put Mawson in a different category, cultured, superb at bringing the ball out, and winning the ball cleanly.
Adam Al Abd was rugged, little pace, and quite short for a centre half, but he knew every trick to combat his limitations, and got those around him to follow suit.
He's able to win the ball cleanly because he reads the game so well.
But all those players mentioned are very good at reading the game. He didn't play for long for Michael Forsyth was another