I am with you there @HolmerBlue. I think you have it all wrong there @micra. Vokes brought people into the game at every opportunity and helped the defence when he dropped back to defend.
Vokes is different class and although AAH gives his all, he is nowhere near the same class as Vokes.
It isn’t like you, maybe Mrs @micra burnt your toast?
I'm going to make myself unpopular by agreeing, at least a little bit anyway, with @micra.
The likes of Mehmeti and Freeman can set the pulses racing - and there can be an audible intake of breath sometimes - when they receive the ball, by virtue of their skill and potential to completely bamboozle defenders.
Similarly Gape & Scowen can make your heart miss a beat with a crunching tackle or timely interception and occasionally with a defence splitting pass but generally winning more than a fair share of second balls.
Taffazolli and Mawson can sometimes, especially in the still of an evening game, be heard purring their way through the match.
But Vokes? Nah.
Truth is though, and here's where I think @micra misses out by not be present at the games, he just gets on and does what he's paid for without too much fuss.
He makes himself the object of attention for maybe two defenders giving Mehmeti & Freeman time and space to do their stuff. He ensures that those defenders don't get a clear header allowing Gape & Scowen to pick up the loose balls. He comes back to help out Taffazolli and Mawson when defending corners and set plays. And all of this is on top of anything he brings behind the scenes in encouraging and passing on his knowledge to the other forwards in training.
Its true he hasn't scored yet, but he's only played 3 matches and one of those was on Tuesday - an all round scruffy game, best forgotten except for the 3 point - his first since being injured.
We need to give @micra access to a dedicated Sam Vokes cam so he can appreciate what many of us see each week.
The commentators I heard were puzzled about the 7 minutes of overtime added. It always seems to me that referees always add more time than is actually wasted. So, is that tactic really worthwhile?
I’d begun to think I was the only naysayer in the village until I spoke on the phone on Wednesday to Ron, my erstwhile car passenger. He mentioned the PA announcer hyping it up when he read out Super Sam’s name and said (I assumed with sincerity) that he also had difficulty in “getting” it.
@Twizz’s suggestion that my view of games (and in particular of individual performances) may be limited to some extent by watching single camera coverage on my laptop could well be valid. I’m not convinced about that though but his 7th paragraph strikes me as being much more plausible.
Loved @Wendoverman’s comment and happily thumbed it up. I think that just about thumbs it up for now (excuse lithp) except to say to @ReturnToSenda that his description of the consequence of the result against Derby at Adams Park seems to me to be completely accurate.
I thought it was going to be longer than 7 minutes ! Tbh some of our time wasting towards the end was a bit embarrassing, no need, first time we've done it at home this season and it was an unwelcome return for me, thought we were past that.
@micra I do find actually at the game, though there is a lot going on, you do get a better idea of what people like Vokes, Gape, Thompson and Wheeler are about that perhaps (unless they score or assist) gets lost in the screen viewing. Having said that, I am still unconvinced by Wing, while wiser heads can see much more than me. Opinions. Obviously, you are totally wrong about Vokes though...😉
With one proviso, @Wendoverman. I obviously decided during the second half on Tuesday evening that Freeman or Horgan should replace Lewis Wing. I think one or two others felt the same but today somebody referred to the latter’s energetic box to box play throughout the game. I think that probably illustrates the validity of @Twizz’s comment about not really seeing the whole picture if you’re not actually at the ground.
I must add that I’ve admired from his earliest appearances what Lewis Wing brings to the table. A composed and creative player perfectly complementing the snappier terrier-like aggression of Gape and Scowen. I’d expect his goalscoring to get close to double figures this season, provided of course he manages to avoid injury.
I like Wing when he is on form (he has had some great games for us overall), but generally I think Horgan or Freeman would be better in that spot. My argument is that with Gape and Scowen basically resembling three or four combative midfielders in the bodies of two players, there is room for a more creative advanced player. It definitely depends on the context of the game and the opposition, but Horgan and Freeman always seem to have very short leashes, no matter how well they play.
Wing is nailed on to score on Saturday now, of course - and more power to him if he does! Though justice would decree Horgan gets the winner despite being several miles offside.
It is quite staggering that some on here don't rate Vokes. He was our top scorer last season, our first striker in 4 years to get more than 10, and has just come back from injury.
You can see from his hold up play with body and feet how much he improves us. The only issue is we don't use his poaching instincts as well as we could. He had one cut back chance on Tuesday and got it on target. The perfect example is the Cheltenham debacle last season, when Obita put in a perfect early ball, and Vokes was there to meet it perfectly.
As @Malone says, our views on players can at times seem "curious". I'm glad I leave the judgement to GA, Dobbo and the rest of the team. For example, my opinion of Gape dropped when he returned for a few games in the championship after a lengthy injury and seemed off the pace. All of sudden I saw him as slow, lacking touch and out of his depth. I was, of course, forgetting what a wonderful player he had been. This season he has taken his performances to a new level and shoved my thoughts right down my throat. The keeper maybe the signing of the season and with also having the peerless Alfie Mawson penning a new contract, that is probably a very curious view!
Are you sure I’m not the only naysayer in the village?
Thanks to the constructive points made on here today about certain aspects of Sam’s play which I may have unwittingly failed to observe, particularly the insights afforded by my friend @Twizz, I will be keeping a beady eye on him on Saturday in the hope that the scales in both eyes will be removed.
Not sure how it can be achieved without (yet again) leaving Daryl Horgan on the bench but surely Jack Grimmer has sealed his place in the starting eleven as the right sided centre back, with Jason McCarthy and Jordan Obita as the wingbacks ?
Anyone know if Tuesday’s match against Stevenage counts as the third match of Garath McCleary’s three match ban?
Be good to have him back for the Sheffield Wednesday game.
Apologies @LeedsBlue. I missed “At some point…”. And your inclusion of Gmac should have been the clue. So I’ve answered the point about who drops out. He’s out anyway. But my point about wingbacks applies on Saturday.
Comments
Remember it?! It cost us relegation from the Champ!
I am with you there @HolmerBlue. I think you have it all wrong there @micra. Vokes brought people into the game at every opportunity and helped the defence when he dropped back to defend.
Vokes is different class and although AAH gives his all, he is nowhere near the same class as Vokes.
It isn’t like you, maybe Mrs @micra burnt your toast?
It cost us *survival (@micra back me up here)
that bloody @micra coming on here with his unpopular opinions riling everyone up...😉
I'm going to make myself unpopular by agreeing, at least a little bit anyway, with @micra.
The likes of Mehmeti and Freeman can set the pulses racing - and there can be an audible intake of breath sometimes - when they receive the ball, by virtue of their skill and potential to completely bamboozle defenders.
Similarly Gape & Scowen can make your heart miss a beat with a crunching tackle or timely interception and occasionally with a defence splitting pass but generally winning more than a fair share of second balls.
Taffazolli and Mawson can sometimes, especially in the still of an evening game, be heard purring their way through the match.
But Vokes? Nah.
Truth is though, and here's where I think @micra misses out by not be present at the games, he just gets on and does what he's paid for without too much fuss.
He makes himself the object of attention for maybe two defenders giving Mehmeti & Freeman time and space to do their stuff. He ensures that those defenders don't get a clear header allowing Gape & Scowen to pick up the loose balls. He comes back to help out Taffazolli and Mawson when defending corners and set plays. And all of this is on top of anything he brings behind the scenes in encouraging and passing on his knowledge to the other forwards in training.
Its true he hasn't scored yet, but he's only played 3 matches and one of those was on Tuesday - an all round scruffy game, best forgotten except for the 3 point - his first since being injured.
We need to give @micra access to a dedicated Sam Vokes cam so he can appreciate what many of us see each week.
The commentators I heard were puzzled about the 7 minutes of overtime added. It always seems to me that referees always add more time than is actually wasted. So, is that tactic really worthwhile?
I’d begun to think I was the only naysayer in the village until I spoke on the phone on Wednesday to Ron, my erstwhile car passenger. He mentioned the PA announcer hyping it up when he read out Super Sam’s name and said (I assumed with sincerity) that he also had difficulty in “getting” it.
@Twizz’s suggestion that my view of games (and in particular of individual performances) may be limited to some extent by watching single camera coverage on my laptop could well be valid. I’m not convinced about that though but his 7th paragraph strikes me as being much more plausible.
Loved @Wendoverman’s comment and happily thumbed it up. I think that just about thumbs it up for now (excuse lithp) except to say to @ReturnToSenda that his description of the consequence of the result against Derby at Adams Park seems to me to be completely accurate.
I thought it was going to be longer than 7 minutes ! Tbh some of our time wasting towards the end was a bit embarrassing, no need, first time we've done it at home this season and it was an unwelcome return for me, thought we were past that.
@micra I do find actually at the game, though there is a lot going on, you do get a better idea of what people like Vokes, Gape, Thompson and Wheeler are about that perhaps (unless they score or assist) gets lost in the screen viewing. Having said that, I am still unconvinced by Wing, while wiser heads can see much more than me. Opinions. Obviously, you are totally wrong about Vokes though...😉
Well said, Wendover.
Liked the posting by @Twizz simply for the picture of Taffs and Mawson purring their way through a match.
With one proviso, @Wendoverman. I obviously decided during the second half on Tuesday evening that Freeman or Horgan should replace Lewis Wing. I think one or two others felt the same but today somebody referred to the latter’s energetic box to box play throughout the game. I think that probably illustrates the validity of @Twizz’s comment about not really seeing the whole picture if you’re not actually at the ground.
I must add that I’ve admired from his earliest appearances what Lewis Wing brings to the table. A composed and creative player perfectly complementing the snappier terrier-like aggression of Gape and Scowen. I’d expect his goalscoring to get close to double figures this season, provided of course he manages to avoid injury.
He’ll have to get into single figures first!
I like Wing when he is on form (he has had some great games for us overall), but generally I think Horgan or Freeman would be better in that spot. My argument is that with Gape and Scowen basically resembling three or four combative midfielders in the bodies of two players, there is room for a more creative advanced player. It definitely depends on the context of the game and the opposition, but Horgan and Freeman always seem to have very short leashes, no matter how well they play.
Wing is nailed on to score on Saturday now, of course - and more power to him if he does! Though justice would decree Horgan gets the winner despite being several miles offside.
Really? Current Mehmeti is well beyond Harkin's peak which never got above potential.
Totally agree but nervous about saying so!
We all have some curious views on players every so often.
But rating Pattinson as strongly as you did, but seemingly not rating Vokes is the strangest double I've seen in many a year on here.
I’m mr marmite @Malone.
I had initially written "stratosphere's above" but eased that down a little.
Harkin scored 4 goals for Wycombe in total. Mehmeti has scored over treble that for us already.
Phew! Thank goodness we agree on something. Thought you’d written me off.
Nah, you're still the main oldest son, don't worry.
Just wait for the Thompson/Gape/Scowen triple up at some point this season.
It is quite staggering that some on here don't rate Vokes. He was our top scorer last season, our first striker in 4 years to get more than 10, and has just come back from injury.
You can see from his hold up play with body and feet how much he improves us. The only issue is we don't use his poaching instincts as well as we could. He had one cut back chance on Tuesday and got it on target. The perfect example is the Cheltenham debacle last season, when Obita put in a perfect early ball, and Vokes was there to meet it perfectly.
As @Malone says, our views on players can at times seem "curious". I'm glad I leave the judgement to GA, Dobbo and the rest of the team. For example, my opinion of Gape dropped when he returned for a few games in the championship after a lengthy injury and seemed off the pace. All of sudden I saw him as slow, lacking touch and out of his depth. I was, of course, forgetting what a wonderful player he had been. This season he has taken his performances to a new level and shoved my thoughts right down my throat. The keeper maybe the signing of the season and with also having the peerless Alfie Mawson penning a new contract, that is probably a very curious view!
At some point I would like to see us put out the following XI:
Max
Macca Taf Alfie Jordan
Dom Josh
Horgs
GMac Anis
Sam
This season’s version of the side that destroyed Cambridge away.
Are you sure I’m not the only naysayer in the village?
Thanks to the constructive points made on here today about certain aspects of Sam’s play which I may have unwittingly failed to observe, particularly the insights afforded by my friend @Twizz, I will be keeping a beady eye on him on Saturday in the hope that the scales in both eyes will be removed.
Not sure how it can be achieved without (yet again) leaving Daryl Horgan on the bench but surely Jack Grimmer has sealed his place in the starting eleven as the right sided centre back, with Jason McCarthy and Jordan Obita as the wingbacks ?
Anyone know if Tuesday’s match against Stevenage counts as the third match of Garath McCleary’s three match ban?
Be good to have him back for the Sheffield Wednesday game.
Apologies @LeedsBlue. I missed “At some point…”. And your inclusion of Gmac should have been the clue. So I’ve answered the point about who drops out. He’s out anyway. But my point about wingbacks applies on Saturday.
I’ve not had a great day and I’m very tired.
Unfortunately Stevenage doesn’t count.