I was surprised at the end of the match when @Jonny_King said it wasn’t a bad performance. @RuyLopez seeing as you agree, would you mind explaining what you thought wasn’t bad? I thought it was one of the worst performances I’ve seen since Ainsworth took charge.
I think Bayo's reaction to someone calling him a water buffalo should probably give you an idea that it wasn't ok. 'Beast-mode on' is something a bit different - it's a phrase used by gym-goers no matter what their skin colour.
Got to agree here...I could not believe we lost against a truly terrible Shrews team but was more surprised we even got a goal in that one. Things can only get better as the saying goes.
So you think it’s ok to describe someone in that way but take offence when he makes a comment with which you disagree? Seems rather hypocritical to me.
Tbh, this thread is beginning to sound like a bunch of 50+ year old white guys being upset the world changing around them and it wasn’t like it used to be.
I have admitted to us being a little flat! Without watching over 500 games again and ranking them in order I don't think this was an absolute shocker. Did Exeter pummel us? They may well be the dark horse this season. Grant you, we were at the races but I've definitely seen worse. Permission to grovel, thank for your work on here!
Yes, I think on paper it did not look bad as some past games - fighting back to 2-1 only to succumb to a third goal, etc. But for me the kicker was just how disorganized and scattershot everything looked. Even the 5-0 and 7-2 reverses against Blackburn and Brentford were a case of simply being outmatched. The 4-1 against Ipswich last season could have actually gone either way, and was down to them being more clinical. Last night seemed more of an absolute structural mess, though a couple of individuals still emerged with some credit, such as GMac, Mawson and Freeman.
To be fair @glasshalffull i took that to be @drcongo 's light hearted attempt at ending the debate before someone thought we were a bunch of sad old 50 + white guys who find equality too hard to understand. And let's face it...being a bellend is most definitely a man's game.
Well, I made a light hearted attempt to end the debate but some posters decided to take that seriously and completely ignore the point I was making. Anyway, can we end the debate now…please?
You can go through the 1970s, 80s and 90s (rock against racism, equal pay act, the toxteth/brixton riots, miners strike, section 28, poll tax riots, iraq protests and so on) and still think someone made an unfortunate misstep without it indicating you are frightened of change or thinking the world is going to hell in a woke handcart you know.
Nothing, but nothing, will beat David Coleman calling Asa Hartford 'a whole-hearted player' shortly after it was revealed that the player had a hole in his heart.
Did you not get the point of that training though? Which is that commentators more often describe players of colour using physical characteristics than they do equivalent white players, entirely without malice or intention - so they should be aware of that tendency and make an active effort to avoid it happening.
You are right and that was the whole point of the Kick it Out meeting. I just pointed out that two black footballers I know personally weren’t offended by those two particular words. Doesn’t mean that other black players would not be offended and all the Sky personnel took the points being made very seriously.
Souness was truly great player and an awful manager, and a dreadful pundit.
Going on about it being a man's game wouldn't be so bad, or at all bad if he hadn't been sat next to a female player with 100 caps, talked forever about how foreign players (mostly black) were a problem and weren't up to it and how special this league and all the players are because he played abroad 40 years ago and hasn't watched a game outside the prem since.
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I was surprised at the end of the match when @Jonny_King said it wasn’t a bad performance. @RuyLopez seeing as you agree, would you mind explaining what you thought wasn’t bad? I thought it was one of the worst performances I’ve seen since Ainsworth took charge.
I take your point, but as I’ve pointed out not every black player is offended by those words.
I always felt uncomfortable when fans shouted "Beast" whenever Bayo came on.
Yeah, it was a bit awkward
I think Bayo's reaction to someone calling him a water buffalo should probably give you an idea that it wasn't ok. 'Beast-mode on' is something a bit different - it's a phrase used by gym-goers no matter what their skin colour.
Got to agree here...I could not believe we lost against a truly terrible Shrews team but was more surprised we even got a goal in that one. Things can only get better as the saying goes.
So you think it’s ok to describe someone in that way but take offence when he makes a comment with which you disagree? Seems rather hypocritical to me.
Tbh, this thread is beginning to sound like a bunch of 50+ year old white guys being upset the world changing around them and it wasn’t like it used to be.
adapt.
record down thumbs ahoy
I have admitted to us being a little flat! Without watching over 500 games again and ranking them in order I don't think this was an absolute shocker. Did Exeter pummel us? They may well be the dark horse this season. Grant you, we were at the races but I've definitely seen worse. Permission to grovel, thank for your work on here!
Weren't at the races 😕
He instantly made clear his upset at that, and also at the dreadful little "offender" chant that reared its head for a short while.
Did he ever make any comment asking Wycombe fans to stop greeting him onto the pitch with Beeeassst?
Yes, I think on paper it did not look bad as some past games - fighting back to 2-1 only to succumb to a third goal, etc. But for me the kicker was just how disorganized and scattershot everything looked. Even the 5-0 and 7-2 reverses against Blackburn and Brentford were a case of simply being outmatched. The 4-1 against Ipswich last season could have actually gone either way, and was down to them being more clinical. Last night seemed more of an absolute structural mess, though a couple of individuals still emerged with some credit, such as GMac, Mawson and Freeman.
To be fair @glasshalffull i took that to be @drcongo 's light hearted attempt at ending the debate before someone thought we were a bunch of sad old 50 + white guys who find equality too hard to understand. And let's face it...being a bellend is most definitely a man's game.
I didn’t say sad. But if the boot fits
Well, I made a light hearted attempt to end the debate but some posters decided to take that seriously and completely ignore the point I was making. Anyway, can we end the debate now…please?
You can go through the 1970s, 80s and 90s (rock against racism, equal pay act, the toxteth/brixton riots, miners strike, section 28, poll tax riots, iraq protests and so on) and still think someone made an unfortunate misstep without it indicating you are frightened of change or thinking the world is going to hell in a woke handcart you know.
Nothing, but nothing, will beat David Coleman calling Asa Hartford 'a whole-hearted player' shortly after it was revealed that the player had a hole in his heart.
Yeah Alan, look at your lighthearted end of a debate by calling someone a hypocrite.🙄
now it just sounds like you don’t like being called out.
Incredible
Yep. You can do all of that and still do better.
do better. As mr souness should do
Graeme Souness ever called you a patronising bellend?
I was referring to my post about pacey and beast, not about my response to DrCongo, but if that suits your argument so be it.
Did you not get the point of that training though? Which is that commentators more often describe players of colour using physical characteristics than they do equivalent white players, entirely without malice or intention - so they should be aware of that tendency and make an active effort to avoid it happening.
Only when I touch a nerve
I didn't take offence. Didn't even know he'd said anything until it was discussed on here. I stand by my statement that the man is a bellend.
Thanks for replying @RuyLopez, I think I tend to agree with this assessment from @Shev, though obviously I'd do it with more hyperbole.
You are right and that was the whole point of the Kick it Out meeting. I just pointed out that two black footballers I know personally weren’t offended by those two particular words. Doesn’t mean that other black players would not be offended and all the Sky personnel took the points being made very seriously.
Des Lynam's "They'll be dancing on the streets in Cameroon tonight, but I bet they do that every night" runs it close.
Souness was truly great player and an awful manager, and a dreadful pundit.
Going on about it being a man's game wouldn't be so bad, or at all bad if he hadn't been sat next to a female player with 100 caps, talked forever about how foreign players (mostly black) were a problem and weren't up to it and how special this league and all the players are because he played abroad 40 years ago and hasn't watched a game outside the prem since.
RE: Souness.
Surely men's football is a man's game?
Just like women's football is a women's game.
It's so petty. He means it is a physical game - not for the weak. He never said that women can't or shouldn't play it.
5 years ago that comment would have gone under the radar.