Well the Gasman was the first to point this out, but we may be hampered by L1 financial constraints - given we don't have massive turnover as a club, then we have less money to spend on wages.
So our desire to pay a loan fee up front may be (key word is "may", I have no idea if this is true or not) an attempt to get round the FFP rules by paying a big fee up front, but you'd still be technically paying his wages.
Well.... My working theory is we both want it to happen (all - player too or we wouldn't even be discussing it) but you've started off with a huge fee and we suspect that nearer the deadline you might settle for less as you want to spend that money and can't if it doesn't turn up. Add in a bit of uncertainty around the manager and that is probably where we are. We have a very rich owner but he won't have his pants pulled down on every deal or a sustainable investment turns to shite pretty quickly.
It maybe that if we got promoted our owners would be looking at signing an experienced Championship player rather than shelling out an over market value fee on Morley now. With our new "data" policy, I assume this would reflect on the level of any transfer fee paid.
It doesn’t look like we will be having Morley in our team on Wednesday. Even if we do successfully agree a deal for Morley, that negotiation could drag on for two/three weeks.
I also noted that Humphreys got a bit of a knock near the end of the Charlton game. I hope he is ok to play on Wednesday.
January is going to be a very defining month for us.
This has always been my concern and why Bolton hold a bit of a card. It is not against their interest to drag this out till the end of January. But it would be massively against ours. So on this one we may need to give Bolton what they want in the next 48 hours to avoid major disruptions to our season.
I thought I'd learnt my lesson with Alfie and Eberechi. Never fall in love with a loan player. Rookie error, must not let it happen again (until the next gem turns up)
Not sure it is necessarily in their interest to drag it out. We will have (hopefully) other irons in the fire and will sign another midfielder if it's not settled quickly. We have 7 games in January and cannot be light in that area while Bolton prevaricate.
Whilst they probably don't need the money, they may get a lower fee next season than we are offering now.
I agree ST I think all parties want the deal done but I think for us it has to be a permanent rather than a continued loan as we need money for planned incomings. I genuinely don’t see any fee being excessive, we have a value for each player as I’m sure you do but it has to be realistic if you want a deal done. I suspect it will be done if everybody’s sensible and I hope so for the players sake alone.
Without being a Debbie downer - transport yourself to the end of the season. Wycombe vs Bolton Play off final.
Morley scores a last minute winner for Bolton to send them to the Championship.
How do you honestly think he reacts/celebrates?
It’s great seeing him celebrate our goals but let’s not pretend he wouldn’t do it for Bolton too….
now, to twist you mind a bit - how would he celebrate if he does come back on Loan but can’t play against his parent team in the final and we score the last minute winner and goes back to being a L1 player.
Not massively. Other than only ever taking things like a player celebrating a goal with more than a pinch of salt.
I have no doubt Morley is enjoying his time with us and winning games/team scoring goals. But also have no doubt he’d be the same for Bolton (or whoever he can play for).
I don’t take it as evidence of anything in particular. Maybe it’s why I’ve never fallen in love with a loan player. Maybe my pragmatism kicks in and then scepticism as I have seen too many loanees turn into full signings who suddenly become average again and realise “oh, maybe that’s why they were bench warming at the last place”
I presume that the players are told who will be starting, and who is on the bench, at least 24 hours before the matchday, so that they can train accordingly.
So today, Morley is likely to be either training with the squad, or driving up the M6. Unless there are still faxes* going back and forth between Adams Park and the Toughsheet Stadium.
It used to be anyone who needs a provable date / time stamp on official documents, now it's just anyone who doesn't know how to use docusign. I think the football bodies have come away from fax now.
That raises another question I have always wondered. Where to loan players actually train everyday?
I’m sure I have heard that younger loanees (say your Potts of last year) spend time at there parent club as well as the loan club during the week training.
Is that the same for older players as well, or would they move down in entirely for that loan spell? Perhaps leaving family kids etc settled at work and school?
For some reason, I’ve always assumed they spent at least one day training with there parent team and the rest at the loan club which is one of the reasons loaned players don’t/can’t play against there parent club for fear of tactics being shared?
Does this put a different slant on the Morley saga if he still talks and sees Evatt regularly every week.
I’m I just musing into the wind on things that don’t matter one jot.
It depends on each individual agreement but I think most loan players spend 100% of their time at club they are on loan to. Young players may occasionally be treated slightly differently.
Sounds right, where a club like West Ham have a prospect like Potts they really are sending them out to improve and develope in real mens competitive football and will take great interest in their progress and look to enhance and supplement the training we could offer as well as keeping up their education and welfare programmes. It's part of a wide programme covering many kids that is still probably cheaper for them over a year than buying one fully developed signing for the first team.
If you take a 30+ defender on loan its generally because the owning club doesn't want them anymore and wants their wages covered or for them to do well and raise some interest to go permanently. They won't give a toss about how training is going.
Morely is somewhere in between probably as he was a little out of form and perhaps not fitting a system but still considered to be a very good player who could come back refreshed and ready to go. So probably being scouted and checked in on but unlikely to pop back up north for training under a manager who he doesn't seem to get on with.
All guesswork of course but that's kind of what we are here for as above @Erroll_Sims
@glasshalfempty lets hope that article is correct...at least in terms of him being allowed to turn out for us tomorrow, it then gives us a couple of days to do "the deal"
Comments
Well the Gasman was the first to point this out, but we may be hampered by L1 financial constraints - given we don't have massive turnover as a club, then we have less money to spend on wages.
So our desire to pay a loan fee up front may be (key word is "may", I have no idea if this is true or not) an attempt to get round the FFP rules by paying a big fee up front, but you'd still be technically paying his wages.
https://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/scmp.php
Well.... My working theory is we both want it to happen (all - player too or we wouldn't even be discussing it) but you've started off with a huge fee and we suspect that nearer the deadline you might settle for less as you want to spend that money and can't if it doesn't turn up. Add in a bit of uncertainty around the manager and that is probably where we are. We have a very rich owner but he won't have his pants pulled down on every deal or a sustainable investment turns to shite pretty quickly.
It maybe that if we got promoted our owners would be looking at signing an experienced Championship player rather than shelling out an over market value fee on Morley now. With our new "data" policy, I assume this would reflect on the level of any transfer fee paid.
If we were to get promoted we'd have more income and better opposition so a higher fee would make more sense anyway.
It doesn’t look like we will be having Morley in our team on Wednesday. Even if we do successfully agree a deal for Morley, that negotiation could drag on for two/three weeks.
I also noted that Humphreys got a bit of a knock near the end of the Charlton game. I hope he is ok to play on Wednesday.
January is going to be a very defining month for us.
Thankfully Josh should be ready for his first start in ages. That'll counter it a bit.
This has always been my concern and why Bolton hold a bit of a card. It is not against their interest to drag this out till the end of January. But it would be massively against ours. So on this one we may need to give Bolton what they want in the next 48 hours to avoid major disruptions to our season.
I thought I'd learnt my lesson with Alfie and Eberechi. Never fall in love with a loan player. Rookie error, must not let it happen again (until the next gem turns up)
Not sure it is necessarily in their interest to drag it out. We will have (hopefully) other irons in the fire and will sign another midfielder if it's not settled quickly. We have 7 games in January and cannot be light in that area while Bolton prevaricate.
Whilst they probably don't need the money, they may get a lower fee next season than we are offering now.
I agree ST I think all parties want the deal done but I think for us it has to be a permanent rather than a continued loan as we need money for planned incomings. I genuinely don’t see any fee being excessive, we have a value for each player as I’m sure you do but it has to be realistic if you want a deal done. I suspect it will be done if everybody’s sensible and I hope so for the players sake alone.
St Johnstone would probably pay us to take Ikpeazu.....
poor lad, didn't realise he was quite so screwed by injuries.
https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/sport/football/st-johnstone/5141126/st-johnstone-uche-ikpeazu-rehab-start/
Poor sod
Expect him to turn up at Shrewsbury.
Without being a Debbie downer - transport yourself to the end of the season. Wycombe vs Bolton Play off final.
Morley scores a last minute winner for Bolton to send them to the Championship.
How do you honestly think he reacts/celebrates?
It’s great seeing him celebrate our goals but let’s not pretend he wouldn’t do it for Bolton too….
now, to twist you mind a bit - how would he celebrate if he does come back on Loan but can’t play against his parent team in the final and we score the last minute winner and goes back to being a L1 player.
You've really thought about this haven't you @TheDancingYak
Not massively. Other than only ever taking things like a player celebrating a goal with more than a pinch of salt.
I have no doubt Morley is enjoying his time with us and winning games/team scoring goals. But also have no doubt he’d be the same for Bolton (or whoever he can play for).
I don’t take it as evidence of anything in particular. Maybe it’s why I’ve never fallen in love with a loan player. Maybe my pragmatism kicks in and then scepticism as I have seen too many loanees turn into full signings who suddenly become average again and realise “oh, maybe that’s why they were bench warming at the last place”
I presume that the players are told who will be starting, and who is on the bench, at least 24 hours before the matchday, so that they can train accordingly.
So today, Morley is likely to be either training with the squad, or driving up the M6. Unless there are still faxes* going back and forth between Adams Park and the Toughsheet Stadium.
*Does anyone really use fax any more?
The NHS😱
@bargepole the FA, EUFA, FIFA & the NHS to name but a few.
It used to be anyone who needs a provable date / time stamp on official documents, now it's just anyone who doesn't know how to use docusign. I think the football bodies have come away from fax now.
@StrongestTeam happy to be corrected
That raises another question I have always wondered. Where to loan players actually train everyday?
I’m sure I have heard that younger loanees (say your Potts of last year) spend time at there parent club as well as the loan club during the week training.
Is that the same for older players as well, or would they move down in entirely for that loan spell? Perhaps leaving family kids etc settled at work and school?
For some reason, I’ve always assumed they spent at least one day training with there parent team and the rest at the loan club which is one of the reasons loaned players don’t/can’t play against there parent club for fear of tactics being shared?
Does this put a different slant on the Morley saga if he still talks and sees Evatt regularly every week.
I’m I just musing into the wind on things that don’t matter one jot.
probably yes on the last point.
It depends on each individual agreement but I think most loan players spend 100% of their time at club they are on loan to. Young players may occasionally be treated slightly differently.
Sounds right, where a club like West Ham have a prospect like Potts they really are sending them out to improve and develope in real mens competitive football and will take great interest in their progress and look to enhance and supplement the training we could offer as well as keeping up their education and welfare programmes. It's part of a wide programme covering many kids that is still probably cheaper for them over a year than buying one fully developed signing for the first team.
If you take a 30+ defender on loan its generally because the owning club doesn't want them anymore and wants their wages covered or for them to do well and raise some interest to go permanently. They won't give a toss about how training is going.
Morely is somewhere in between probably as he was a little out of form and perhaps not fitting a system but still considered to be a very good player who could come back refreshed and ready to go. So probably being scouted and checked in on but unlikely to pop back up north for training under a manager who he doesn't seem to get on with.
All guesswork of course but that's kind of what we are here for as above @Erroll_Sims
It seems we have been given a little New Year’s Day gift - Aaron Morley can play tomorrow
https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/24826348.mansfield-town-v-bolton-wanderers---kyle-dempsey-injury-blow/
@glasshalfempty lets hope that article is correct...at least in terms of him being allowed to turn out for us tomorrow, it then gives us a couple of days to do "the deal"
Excellent news, presumably this is because the loan expires at 11.59pm on the 1st Jan?
Loved the sound of that, until also reading that Bolton would be recalling him for their game on Saturday