Actually I was thinking both are fine, somewhere to lay my head and rest in the great hall after my many years of battle against the oppressors, sorry, the Tories!
I'm surprised that more people haven't opted for 3.15pm, seems like a sensible compromise to me. Perhaps that's the point though, it's a polarising question and a lot of people are unwilling to compromise.
I think football should remain secular as well, but that doesn't mean that I think when we move games we should seek to sit them right on top of notable dates/times in an effort to show how indifferent we are. I have friends of many different persuasions and if I wanted them to turn up to a BBQ but they were engaged for an hour or two on the day, I would consider shifting my plans by an hour or two. I don't see why it is crucial (since we are punning) that this game start at 3pm and no other time but that.
I also don't see how serving food at a football match would be a problem to anyone observing Ramadan. Are you suggesting that the fayre on offer at Adams Park has suddenly become so delicious as to tempt the devout where all the other still operational food outlets of the nation have failed?
I think the key point is whether it is a worthwhile gesture towards fellow supporters or not. Most have instead concentrated on 'their religion is silly' or 'they won't be happy whatever we do'. Sometimes it can be good to be accommodating of others, rather than just focus on self interest.
Precisely Baldric, it's called common courtesy and it's the same reason why people used to stand to one side when stationary on an escalator, because what's the point in being obstructive? Does it give people a cheap thrill?
I just don't get it. Most people don't want the time moved, so why would it be moved? It's not to do with the merits of religion, and it's nothing to do with courtesy.
If I and a small group of other people all wanted a Saturday game moved from 3pm to 3.15pm to suit our plans for the weekend, it just wouldn't happen. Everyone can't be accommodated all of the time.
I think the core question is 'should the requirements of a small number of people be given extra consideration because their demands are religious in nature?'
I'd love to know where you get your data. Even your straw poll of 43 doesn't back up your claim that most people don't want the game moved from 3pm on Good Friday.
Just because everyone can´t be accommodated all of the time (sic) doesn't mean you shouldn't accommodate everyone when it is entirely possible. As yes, it has everything to do with courtesy.
Ed my man, this poll does say exactly that. More people would prefer the game to start at 3 than at 3.15 (which has a total of two votes so far).
If I and some friends also wanted the time of a kick off moved, would you also go to bat for that? What is it about this particular situation that makes you think it would be courteous to move the kick off?
I agree with you Chris.
On the other hand, I'd like be home from footie in time to see Celebrity Pointless so I think I'll ask the club if, out of courtesy, they could change ko to be 14.45.
Your straw poll of 43 says that 46.51% of people would like a 3pm kick off on Friday, which isn't most people at all, it's less than half of people. Times are tough when you have to shift your own goalposts.
I wouldn't move the game for you and your friends, nor would I move it from Saturday 3pm, but since it has been moved it might as well be moved to a time that is not so obviously inconvenient to many people. With regards to this particular situation, I think it would be courteous to move the kick off because a number of people have indicated that 3pm on Good Friday in an important moment in their religious calendar.
If you really want to start another poll asking the specific question, be my guest.
You can be pedantic about the data as much as you like, but you'd be missing the key message. Which is that many, many more people would prefer the kick off to be 3pm than 3.15pm.
I don't want to start another poll, it would be as meaningless as your poll. You call it being pedantic, I call it being accurate. If you aren't prepared to acknowledge your own data, what was the point of the poll in the first place?
Only one of the options in the poll is the equivalent to expressing a desire to have the time moved. The others are all neutral or would be actively against having the time moved.
On the basis of this data, most people don't want the time moved.
I'm well aware that this data has its limitations. But if you've got any other data source please let me know. And if you can find any other interpretation of this data that supports your argument, then I will agree that you aren't simply being pedantic.
47.73% of the respondents are perfectly happy to have either a 3pm or 3.15pm timeslot, which means they are entirely willing to be accommodating. You can't in one breath acknowledge that as neutral and then in the next breath say that they don't want the time moved.
Personally, I can't see the logic in being happy to move the game from 3pm on Saturday but having moved it once to then be unhappy with moving the game by a trifling 15 minutes.
In any case, where's the logic in moving a game in order to get a bigger crowd but moving it to a point in time which makes it impossible for a subsection of your support to attend?
I'm hosting a barbecue on 8th of August for 4328 of my closest friends. 20 of them are going to be a little late for the first round of sausages because something or other, but the rest of them will probably be there on time. Given that it's only 20 people, I figured it makes sense to start on time rather than make the other 4308 people wait. The 20 latecomers have all said that, out of courtesy to those that can make it on time, they would hate for me to start the barbecue late. They've even offered to stay behind for 15 minutes to clear up the plates and beer bottles.
Unfortunately, those 20 people are all Wycombe Wanderers fans and because they'll be cleaning up at the barbecue they're going to be 15 minutes late for kick off against York. I've written to the club demanding that out of courtesy, they move the kick off time.
"In 1937, Sister Faustina Kowalska (1905-1938) of the Sisters of Our Lady of Mercy began receiving divine revelations from Our Lord Jesus Christ. In these revelations, Jesus asked Sr. Faustina to record these experiences which she compiled into six notebooks, now widely known as Divine Mercy in My Soul. Contained within the diaries are messages directly from Christ regarding his unfathomable and endless mercy toward all humanity. Among Christ’s central message to Saint Faustina was his extraordinary invitation to each of us to daily immerse ourselves in his passion during the 3 pm hour while also imploring his mercy for ourselves and for the whole world. Here are the exact words of Christ to Saint Faustina stating his specific call:
“At three o’clock, implore My mercy, especially for sinners; and, if only for a brief moment, immerse yourself in My Passion, particularly in My abandonment at the moment of agony. This is the hour of great mercy… In this hour, I will refuse nothing to the soul that makes a request of Me in virtue of My Passion.” (Diary, 1320)"
If a jobs worth doing....
So how about games kicking off always at 3.15? We can then petition the BBC to put back Pointless Celebrities half an hour and we can all live happily in peace and harmony
I have a 2 hour journey to home games and I know of a few others who have similar or more. It'd be handy to get evening KOs moved to 7pm so I can get home 11-11.30. Plus it would be better for the kids too.
Those of you who live locally should have some sodding consideration for my choice to live 130 miles away.
I'm usually pretty busy on Saturdays seeing friends and so forth. I think I'd prefer the games to KO on a Sunday instead. I trust this is agreeable with everyone else.
I was wondering if we could move home games for good to another ground that its more convenient for me to get to. I have asked many times but it falls on deaf ears.
Comments
See you in Valhalla
This is where I would be going http://www.valhallabrewery.co.uk/web/
Actually I was thinking both are fine, somewhere to lay my head and rest in the great hall after my many years of battle against the oppressors, sorry, the Tories!
I would have thought the Vikings and the Tories had a fair amount in common - Vikings are not noted for their support of the weak and infirm.:)
Now I'm not going to say the Gasroom is representative, but 35 is a reasonable number of responses. And no-one has said they would prefer 3.15pm.
Ha!
I'm surprised that more people haven't opted for 3.15pm, seems like a sensible compromise to me. Perhaps that's the point though, it's a polarising question and a lot of people are unwilling to compromise.
To play devils advocate (if you parden the pun) should we also not serve food out of respect for ramadan?
IMHO i think football should remain secular and free from any religious influence.
I think football should remain secular as well, but that doesn't mean that I think when we move games we should seek to sit them right on top of notable dates/times in an effort to show how indifferent we are. I have friends of many different persuasions and if I wanted them to turn up to a BBQ but they were engaged for an hour or two on the day, I would consider shifting my plans by an hour or two. I don't see why it is crucial (since we are punning) that this game start at 3pm and no other time but that.
I also don't see how serving food at a football match would be a problem to anyone observing Ramadan. Are you suggesting that the fayre on offer at Adams Park has suddenly become so delicious as to tempt the devout where all the other still operational food outlets of the nation have failed?
No, but the point is why change the kick off time for the tiny minority who are bothered when far more people would rather it started at 3.
I think the key point is whether it is a worthwhile gesture towards fellow supporters or not. Most have instead concentrated on 'their religion is silly' or 'they won't be happy whatever we do'. Sometimes it can be good to be accommodating of others, rather than just focus on self interest.
Precisely Baldric, it's called common courtesy and it's the same reason why people used to stand to one side when stationary on an escalator, because what's the point in being obstructive? Does it give people a cheap thrill?
I just don't get it. Most people don't want the time moved, so why would it be moved? It's not to do with the merits of religion, and it's nothing to do with courtesy.
If I and a small group of other people all wanted a Saturday game moved from 3pm to 3.15pm to suit our plans for the weekend, it just wouldn't happen. Everyone can't be accommodated all of the time.
I think the core question is 'should the requirements of a small number of people be given extra consideration because their demands are religious in nature?'
I'd love to know where you get your data. Even your straw poll of 43 doesn't back up your claim that most people don't want the game moved from 3pm on Good Friday.
Just because everyone can´t be accommodated all of the time (sic) doesn't mean you shouldn't accommodate everyone when it is entirely possible. As yes, it has everything to do with courtesy.
Ed my man, this poll does say exactly that. More people would prefer the game to start at 3 than at 3.15 (which has a total of two votes so far).
If I and some friends also wanted the time of a kick off moved, would you also go to bat for that? What is it about this particular situation that makes you think it would be courteous to move the kick off?
I agree with you Chris.
On the other hand, I'd like be home from footie in time to see Celebrity Pointless so I think I'll ask the club if, out of courtesy, they could change ko to be 14.45.
Your straw poll of 43 says that 46.51% of people would like a 3pm kick off on Friday, which isn't most people at all, it's less than half of people. Times are tough when you have to shift your own goalposts.
I wouldn't move the game for you and your friends, nor would I move it from Saturday 3pm, but since it has been moved it might as well be moved to a time that is not so obviously inconvenient to many people. With regards to this particular situation, I think it would be courteous to move the kick off because a number of people have indicated that 3pm on Good Friday in an important moment in their religious calendar.
If you really want to start another poll asking the specific question, be my guest.
You can be pedantic about the data as much as you like, but you'd be missing the key message. Which is that many, many more people would prefer the kick off to be 3pm than 3.15pm.
I don't want to start another poll, it would be as meaningless as your poll. You call it being pedantic, I call it being accurate. If you aren't prepared to acknowledge your own data, what was the point of the poll in the first place?
Only one of the options in the poll is the equivalent to expressing a desire to have the time moved. The others are all neutral or would be actively against having the time moved.
On the basis of this data, most people don't want the time moved.
I'm well aware that this data has its limitations. But if you've got any other data source please let me know. And if you can find any other interpretation of this data that supports your argument, then I will agree that you aren't simply being pedantic.
47.73% of the respondents are perfectly happy to have either a 3pm or 3.15pm timeslot, which means they are entirely willing to be accommodating. You can't in one breath acknowledge that as neutral and then in the next breath say that they don't want the time moved.
Personally, I can't see the logic in being happy to move the game from 3pm on Saturday but having moved it once to then be unhappy with moving the game by a trifling 15 minutes.
In any case, where's the logic in moving a game in order to get a bigger crowd but moving it to a point in time which makes it impossible for a subsection of your support to attend?
1 Being neutral means not wanting it moved. To want it moved, they'd have to have a preference either way.
2 If there's a good reason to move it to 3pm then I'd agree. But there isn't. More people would rather than game was at 3pm than 3.15pm
3 Because that subsection is tiny.
I'm hosting a barbecue on 8th of August for 4328 of my closest friends. 20 of them are going to be a little late for the first round of sausages because something or other, but the rest of them will probably be there on time. Given that it's only 20 people, I figured it makes sense to start on time rather than make the other 4308 people wait. The 20 latecomers have all said that, out of courtesy to those that can make it on time, they would hate for me to start the barbecue late. They've even offered to stay behind for 15 minutes to clear up the plates and beer bottles.
Unfortunately, those 20 people are all Wycombe Wanderers fans and because they'll be cleaning up at the barbecue they're going to be 15 minutes late for kick off against York. I've written to the club demanding that out of courtesy, they move the kick off time.
So why just on a Good Friday?
"In 1937, Sister Faustina Kowalska (1905-1938) of the Sisters of Our Lady of Mercy began receiving divine revelations from Our Lord Jesus Christ. In these revelations, Jesus asked Sr. Faustina to record these experiences which she compiled into six notebooks, now widely known as Divine Mercy in My Soul. Contained within the diaries are messages directly from Christ regarding his unfathomable and endless mercy toward all humanity. Among Christ’s central message to Saint Faustina was his extraordinary invitation to each of us to daily immerse ourselves in his passion during the 3 pm hour while also imploring his mercy for ourselves and for the whole world. Here are the exact words of Christ to Saint Faustina stating his specific call:
“At three o’clock, implore My mercy, especially for sinners; and, if only for a brief moment, immerse yourself in My Passion, particularly in My abandonment at the moment of agony. This is the hour of great mercy… In this hour, I will refuse nothing to the soul that makes a request of Me in virtue of My Passion.” (Diary, 1320)"
If a jobs worth doing....
So how about games kicking off always at 3.15? We can then petition the BBC to put back Pointless Celebrities half an hour and we can all live happily in peace and harmony
I have a 2 hour journey to home games and I know of a few others who have similar or more. It'd be handy to get evening KOs moved to 7pm so I can get home 11-11.30. Plus it would be better for the kids too.
Those of you who live locally should have some sodding consideration for my choice to live 130 miles away.
I'm usually pretty busy on Saturdays seeing friends and so forth. I think I'd prefer the games to KO on a Sunday instead. I trust this is agreeable with everyone else.
I was wondering if we could move home games for good to another ground that its more convenient for me to get to. I have asked many times but it falls on deaf ears.
@M3G I'm sure if you could find a few friends that also want home games moved to the same ground then everyone else would agree to it out of courtesy.
@Ozzie_the_Relaxed, Your damned sure. 10/10