Labour strongly opposed it and voted against it, what more do you want?
It was blatant gerrymandering by the Tories pretending to deal with a non-existent problem.
Rees-Mogg admitted as much after it backfired at the previous round of council elections.
From Sky News:
Speaking at the National Conservatism conference in Westminster, Mr Rees-Mogg said: "Parties that try and gerrymander end up finding their clever scheme comes back to bite them, as dare I say we found by insisting on voter ID for elections.
"We found the people who didn't have ID were elderly and they by and large voted Conservative, so we made it hard for our own voters and we upset a system that worked perfectly well."
Both grammar school educated (RGS and Wycombe High) and both have University degrees.
Of course, nobody knew what a Leave win would mean in practical terms, but it would have been preferable if Cameron had stayed on to implement the result, as he said he would. Instead, we got the disastrous May.
Both Norway and Switzerland seem to do OK without being EU members, so I see no reason why the UK couldn't make it work.
There was no way Cameron could have stayed on implementing a policy he was on record opposing. The Pro-Brexit mob would have slaughtered him every time reality and compromise got in the way of their fantasies. We shot ourselves in both feet but no point moaning - we have to accept the disability and move on with out lives to the best we can.
Estonia for example seem to manage to implement online voting. One day no doubt good old blighty will catch up....
This was always the bit that most annoys me about the whole farce. Immediately post-referendum we (those of us who voted Remain) had the opportunity to take the higher moral ground and press for a Norway/Switzerland-type deal on the basis that a) it was a close vote and b) it would deliver what those who voted to leave the EU had requested.
Of course we all know that Farage (and the like-minded lunatics in the Conservative Party) head would explode if that happened (so good result all round) and whinged endlessly that it wasn't "Brexit" (which was never an option), but they couldn't argue with any degree of logic that the government hadn't done what the referendum had asked.
Instead we foolishly (and again my party should hang its head in shame, albeit we were only minor actors) attempted to refight a battle already lost and took the road that led to parliamentary chaos, Johnson, Truss and Sunak and the absolute mess that this country is currently in.
This is not to let the Tory party off in the slightest. They have presided over the whole shit-show since buying into the flawed concept of austerity and I would dearly love to see them totally humiliated - and virtually annihilated tonight. Sadly I fear that they will end up with around 150 seats which they (and their friends in the press) will sell as a triumph.
TBF whilst I understood the arguments etc I voted selfishly to remain as my working life was very much centred on my ability to freely work across the EU.
I could have lived with the UK becoming part of EFTA as that would have protected my freedom of movement etc.
When that moral imperative is backed by policy that's fine. Again seeing as a vote for remain was a vote to keep the status quo, a moral vote to not make things worse as the rules/ economics around them would inevitably be affected is obviously fine.
When it's simply - "I don't like XYZ", or a "fxxk you" to a certain group, and the policy voted for doesn't even change the position on that, or exacerbates it, then it's far from ideal.
Norway have the advantage of not having had Thatcher sell off the country's crown jewels to her mates for a couple of quid, and instead kept them all nationalised leading to them having a thing called the Sovereign Wealth Fund, entirely paid for by their natural resources and currently valued at £1.4 trillion. Maybe your kids should have gone to a state school. I did, and yet I'm not so stupid that I don't understand the differences between Norway's economy and ours.
Very clever from the local Lib Dem candidate up here in Hazlemere (Sarah Green)
A very fashionable (mock) handwritten letter on light blue paper posted through my door, highlighting many of the local issues that local residents may be aggrieved about. Nothing too extreme
Then in very tiny letters on the reverse of the paper the name of the party involved. Think they are targeting the partially sighted conservative demographic
How is that anywhere near as relevant when you're voting to not change things? And also which things were definitively going to be wise by staying in the EU?
Sorry Alan, we all know what we’ll get from the Tories as the last 14 years clearly demonstrate. Im a lifelong Liberal (Democrat) voter other than my one Labour vote to rid us of Thatcher. If a tactical labour vote would make a difference in my constituency I’d do it again this time but Labour will walk it here since the boundary changes so I can vote LibDem with a clear conscience.
None of that information is relevant. Norway's oil is owned by Norway, ours is owned by friends of Thatcher. Norway owns all their public services meaning that there's state income from all of them. We gave ours away, largely to the state providers of other countries. There's no way we could do a Norway as we couldn’t afford it - we’re all paying for the rest of Europe to have nice things. All that is before you get to the fact that Norway is effectively an EU member anyway, beholden to EU rules, regulations and laws, but without a vote.
Europeans have a saying, roughly translating to “God put Brits on an island for a reason”.
I don’t respect @AlanCecil ’s position, although I have sympathy for him in holding it. We all want, need even, to cleave to a tribe. But sometimes a moral test comes when you have to recognise that the values of the tribe have changed and it’s time for you to leave. That time has come for Republicans in the States and, albeit to a lesser extent, it’s come for Tories here. Honour and values left the party when they appointed and stuck with Boris Johnson.
Comments
Just took 93yr mum to vote, she’s registered blind. In a very loud voice she said, “Which box for Bloomfield to never play three at the back again?”
A cheer went up from waiting voters.
Does anywhere still run buses anymore?
If they did, then it was very quiet. The truth is that they know it will also benefit them and their well-heeled base.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60037651
Not THAT quiet
Labour strongly opposed it and voted against it, what more do you want?
It was blatant gerrymandering by the Tories pretending to deal with a non-existent problem.
Rees-Mogg admitted as much after it backfired at the previous round of council elections.
From Sky News:
Speaking at the National Conservatism conference in Westminster, Mr Rees-Mogg said: "Parties that try and gerrymander end up finding their clever scheme comes back to bite them, as dare I say we found by insisting on voter ID for elections.
"We found the people who didn't have ID were elderly and they by and large voted Conservative, so we made it hard for our own voters and we upset a system that worked perfectly well."
Get them out.
Don't let evidence get in the way of a good old rant @LDF
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2022-01-17/division/9A5C184C-B85F-4232-AEA8-D3C3113CE5C0/ElectionsBill?outputType=Chart
Sorry - that somehow escaped my notice. In the US, voter ID has been a huge issue for a long time; fiercely resisted by the left.
I stand by my point about covid when millions of low paid agency workers slipped through the furlough net and we heard nothing from Labour.
I hope we never have electronic voting like in the US. It just seems so much more open to fraud than counting little scraps of paper.
Is it really, or just in certain people's imagination?
We have postal ballots to do the fraud for us
Both grammar school educated (RGS and Wycombe High) and both have University degrees.
Of course, nobody knew what a Leave win would mean in practical terms, but it would have been preferable if Cameron had stayed on to implement the result, as he said he would. Instead, we got the disastrous May.
Both Norway and Switzerland seem to do OK without being EU members, so I see no reason why the UK couldn't make it work.
Norway having infinite oil money and Switzerland established as a banking centre of the world partially due to it's political neutrality....
No reason we can't do fine outside the EU, but we have made it harder for ourselves at the behest of the racists and ill informed.
There was no way Cameron could have stayed on implementing a policy he was on record opposing. The Pro-Brexit mob would have slaughtered him every time reality and compromise got in the way of their fantasies. We shot ourselves in both feet but no point moaning - we have to accept the disability and move on with out lives to the best we can.
Estonia for example seem to manage to implement online voting. One day no doubt good old blighty will catch up....
<citation needed>
This was always the bit that most annoys me about the whole farce. Immediately post-referendum we (those of us who voted Remain) had the opportunity to take the higher moral ground and press for a Norway/Switzerland-type deal on the basis that a) it was a close vote and b) it would deliver what those who voted to leave the EU had requested.
Of course we all know that Farage (and the like-minded lunatics in the Conservative Party) head would explode if that happened (so good result all round) and whinged endlessly that it wasn't "Brexit" (which was never an option), but they couldn't argue with any degree of logic that the government hadn't done what the referendum had asked.
Instead we foolishly (and again my party should hang its head in shame, albeit we were only minor actors) attempted to refight a battle already lost and took the road that led to parliamentary chaos, Johnson, Truss and Sunak and the absolute mess that this country is currently in.
This is not to let the Tory party off in the slightest. They have presided over the whole shit-show since buying into the flawed concept of austerity and I would dearly love to see them totally humiliated - and virtually annihilated tonight. Sadly I fear that they will end up with around 150 seats which they (and their friends in the press) will sell as a triumph.
It seems to me that a significant proportion of voters thought there was a moral imperative to vote Remain.
TBF whilst I understood the arguments etc I voted selfishly to remain as my working life was very much centred on my ability to freely work across the EU.
I could have lived with the UK becoming part of EFTA as that would have protected my freedom of movement etc.
Doubt if he will be able to find the polling station!
When that moral imperative is backed by policy that's fine. Again seeing as a vote for remain was a vote to keep the status quo, a moral vote to not make things worse as the rules/ economics around them would inevitably be affected is obviously fine.
When it's simply - "I don't like XYZ", or a "fxxk you" to a certain group, and the policy voted for doesn't even change the position on that, or exacerbates it, then it's far from ideal.
Norway have the advantage of not having had Thatcher sell off the country's crown jewels to her mates for a couple of quid, and instead kept them all nationalised leading to them having a thing called the Sovereign Wealth Fund, entirely paid for by their natural resources and currently valued at £1.4 trillion. Maybe your kids should have gone to a state school. I did, and yet I'm not so stupid that I don't understand the differences between Norway's economy and ours.
There was plenty of paragraph 2 on both sides.
Very clever from the local Lib Dem candidate up here in Hazlemere (Sarah Green)
A very fashionable (mock) handwritten letter on light blue paper posted through my door, highlighting many of the local issues that local residents may be aggrieved about. Nothing too extreme
Then in very tiny letters on the reverse of the paper the name of the party involved. Think they are targeting the partially sighted conservative demographic
Gets my vote for ingenuity alone!
How is that anywhere near as relevant when you're voting to not change things? And also which things were definitively going to be wise by staying in the EU?
I honestly can’t imagine there has been a political discussion on any football forum in the last six weeks with the nuance and respect shown here.
Take that Godwin’s Law.
It's true that Norway has crude oil reserves of over 8,000 million barrels, compared with 2,500 million for the UK.
However, their GDP is $485 billion, compared with the UK's $3,340 billion, which works out at around $88,000 per capita compared with our $50,000.
So yes, there are clearly differences between the two economies, but that doesn't invalidate my argument.
Sorry Alan, we all know what we’ll get from the Tories as the last 14 years clearly demonstrate. Im a lifelong Liberal (Democrat) voter other than my one Labour vote to rid us of Thatcher. If a tactical labour vote would make a difference in my constituency I’d do it again this time but Labour will walk it here since the boundary changes so I can vote LibDem with a clear conscience.
None of that information is relevant. Norway's oil is owned by Norway, ours is owned by friends of Thatcher. Norway owns all their public services meaning that there's state income from all of them. We gave ours away, largely to the state providers of other countries. There's no way we could do a Norway as we couldn’t afford it - we’re all paying for the rest of Europe to have nice things. All that is before you get to the fact that Norway is effectively an EU member anyway, beholden to EU rules, regulations and laws, but without a vote.
Europeans have a saying, roughly translating to “God put Brits on an island for a reason”.
Lots of oil divided by not many people gives a much higher figure per head than not much oil divided by lots of people.
I don’t respect @AlanCecil ’s position, although I have sympathy for him in holding it. We all want, need even, to cleave to a tribe. But sometimes a moral test comes when you have to recognise that the values of the tribe have changed and it’s time for you to leave. That time has come for Republicans in the States and, albeit to a lesser extent, it’s come for Tories here. Honour and values left the party when they appointed and stuck with Boris Johnson.