Mason Greenwood
There has been a lot in the press recently with regards to Mason Greenwood's position at Man Utd and whether he should or shouldn't be allowed back into the squad with the club.
Whats your view on it? Do you think he should be cast out? Released from his contract? Be given a loan move out somewhere until the heat dies down? Be allowed back into the fold?
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He should absolutely be outcast. And United have handled it disgracefully - see their statement the other day, particularly this part:
"We also have responsibilities to Mason as an employee, as a young person who has been with the club since the age of seven, and as a new father with a partner."
There's recorded evidence, ffs - they should never even have entertained allowing back into the fold, which it looks very much like they're about to do.
Fuck him.
Oh boy.
Now waiting for the first poster to chime in with 'He'S a YoUnG lAd WhO mAdE a MiStAkE'
I agree with you, also the fact that he hasn't apologised or admitted that he is looking to improve himself in any way, whether its anger management or voluntary work or something to prove that the person on the recording, isn't who he is now. The silence from him has just made this worse.
But, what are the differences between him and another person like Ched Evans or Joey Barton who have both spent time in prison and have come out to continue their career? Is it worse because of who he is and who he's played for or what he was recorded doing?
Yay!! Time for some Friday fun before the big game tomorrow!
Seriously though, the case has been dropped because of 'new material that came to light' which makes Mason an innocent man. Or at least not legally guilty of anything. I think the simplest solution would be for ManU to sell him to a Saudi club. They won't mind his 'back story' and he can continue his career in a country where it's against the law to have a girlfriend. That's probably the best place for him.
I'm more fascinated that we live in a society where Rachel Riley feels her opinion matters. Somebody on a small TV quiz show watched by people who don't have access to the remote has decided that Mason must go. It's like being in the 1970's and getting told what to think about Watergate from Anne Aston off The Golden Shot.
For what little its worth, here's my opinion. In the eyes of the law, he's innocent, and therefore must have all the rights of an innocent person.
However, a club can read this transcript and decide to make their own judgment call on whether to employ him. I think its a fairly easy moral decision.
I was a young lad once. I made a lot of stupid decisions but I managed to get to adulthood without physically and sexually assaulting my girlfriend.
I think like Giggs it was more to do with the mother of his child dropping the charges or refusing to co-operate than new evidence...(so why she put it all on social media escapes me) but who knows. They all like to say they are exonerated.
Whose opinion do you think matters @Kim_il_Swan there are a lot of people who stick their oar in as well as Rachel Riley feeling her opinion matters. I think mine does too...but I cannot do maths or the conundrum so I fear no-one would listen.
I have to say, I met Anne Aston when she was in panto in the 1970s and her grasp of geo-politics was quite impressive.
I wondered how long it would be before we had the heated debate. I don't care what Man United do, but I would not want him playing for us (yes, that olde Chestnut) so I can understand why other teams (and their women's teams) might feel the same. Like the Goodwillie episode, I think footballers are going to have to start realising that their behaviour impacts on more than just whether or not their cases peter out or they get banged up for the things they do.
I have to say, I met Anne Aston when she was in panto in the 1970s and her grasp of geo-politics was quite impressive.
Ho Ho!!
One of these scenarios you're glad you don't have to decide on.
But then on a sliding scale football is a strange industry for interesting characters.
We had some characters under Taylor didn't we. Coldy Grant, Zebroski, Nathan Ashton.
On the basis of that transcript you'd like to think he'd never again be in a position to be adored by the public even though he won't be found guilty of anything in a court.
I wouldn't want him anywhere near Wycombe Wanderers, but short of a legal judgment it's hard to see what else Manchester United could have done.
Worth mentioning that Ched Evans (mentioned above) was found to be legally an innocent man and hence shouldn’t have been in prison.
on the Greenwood case there are lots of conflicting issues here. Everyone should abhor domestic violence. The right to being seen as innocent until proven guilty comes into play as does concerns over the increasing trend to conduct moral trial by media - eg Schofield and Edwards. Then questions about whether footballers should be held to higher moral standards than say plumbers and questions about what society wants to do with people who have been convicted of committing sexual violence given that we imprison few of them for life and therefore presumably they must earn a living by working.
I think this is a far more complicated moral issue than the simple “banish him from my sight” knee jerk reaction that is our natural first reaction. The situation of David Goodwillie is in many ways similar.
I suspect that Man U will take the pragmatic decision and cast him off. Is that the morally right decision? Honestly undecided.
Very difficult situation for all.
His partner has obviously dropped any charges because she's got a child with him now and wants to make a go of it as a family.
That family life is obviously easier with him continuing to earn 100k a week rather than the instant reduction to zero it'd be if he was charged and most likely found guilty and thus sacked.
Going abroad on loan might be the best for everyone. But then the partner and child have to uproot themselves.
But you wonder how on earth a player can come back with this sort of thing hanging over him. Every away will just be toxic, the media will be all over it etc.
£
No doubt that will be @DevC?
Unfortunately Greenwood is in a financial win win situation. If United sack him, they will have to pay off his contract which has 2 years to run at a minimum of £3.9m per year, plus no doubt, his wages whilst he was suspended. So we are probably looking at around £10m unless the club can sack him for gross misconduct.
Potential work for @bargepole?
The Man Utd women's team should all walk out in protest, like that Scottish team did last season, that soon changed the owners mind. Though I wonder how much Utd actually care about their women's team ?
I'd say David Goodwillie is a little more clear cut as he has several criminal convictions for assault and was convicted of rape in a civil trial.
He's a 34 year old striker now, so not much of a future in football anyway.
TBH I hadn’t realized it was his current partner. That obviously complicates the matter even further.
Perhaps it would be best if we all stopped assuming we knew better than her.
Wycombe have quite sensibly had a no arseholes rule for a while which covers this off nicely for us, and other ghouls in football mean we'd not be able to afford him anyway.
While the police can carry on actions without the alleged victims permission where they think there's a cause the reality has to be it's very difficult to get a conviction without cooperation of the key witness, it's difficult enough with it as figures show.
The detail would be around wether it was the way they talked generally or a serious offence as seems likely, but how do you prove it. if the victim is actually supporting the alleged perpetrator it would just be a mess, regardless of whether they say it was a mistake or there were personal circumstances or future agreements that led to the change of heart.
I'm not sure the FA could rule without a conviction of some sort and clubs and fans will have to make their views known should he appear to have any input. There's no real formal way to do this.
Considering they didn't even have one until a few years ago, probably not much.
Goodwillie was not found guilty in a criminal court. Does the mantra of innocent until proven guilty have no relevance? Even if he was found guilty and sentenced to prison, he would likely be out by now. Should society allow such people to work at all or should they be limited to only working in non publicly visible jobs?
Rape and other crimes of that nature are notoriously hard to get to court in the first place. Let's not go down that road.
It is indeed very difficult to prove rape especially when the question is a matter of consent rather than whether the act happened at all.
Does that reality mean you are happy to abandon the principle of innocent until proven guilty and instead move to trial by media and public opinion because we all know the legal system can’t be trusted. That’s quite a big step to take.
what should we do with convicted sex offenders once they finish the custodial part of their sentence. Are they allowed to work? If so are they allowed to work in publicly visible jobs?
Difficult questions
Likely to come from Cheltenham.
I think it's disgraceful they're even considering allowing him to play in this country again.
If I were a team mate I'd be looking into whether I could refuse to play.
At a practical level it is just going to become impossible anyway. Someone will get on the pitch and knock him out. Or another player will break his legs.
With any luck
The best outcome for everyone would be if he were to die in a really unpleasant way. 🤞
Unless supplementary bulletproof evidence comes out which completely changes the way we evaluate the first bit of evidence, then he has to be sacked by Man United and should never play professional football again in this part of the world.
Is he allowed to work as say a plumber or barber now @frequentstander
Of course he is. But plumbers and barbers don't have thousands of kids watching them every weekend do they?
I'm not sure an abuser should be allowed to a have a job that might require him to enter a woman's house.
From the statement...
'...we understand the strong opinions it has provoked based on the partial evidence in the public domain...'
That reads to me 'you all made a judgement but if you knew the full story you would see she deserved it'
One of the worst things from the football cesspool I can imagine.
If he was a 3rd string player in 2nd division team he would be gone gone gone. Just cos he can kick a ball in a goal better than most he gets better treatment. And people saying he was found innocent, he was not. The witness (the victim) withdrew her evidence. This is the most frequent reason for prosecution failures in safeguarding.
Oh he was only young. Feck off. All of us were young. Whether United feel that they have created an entitled monster or not is academic. He's a monster and the thought of him being cheered by fans sickens me.