Very happy De Barr seems at least okay, though with obvious concerns still there.
As for the football, just disappointed we would dull our own momentum. If we lose at Peterborough because we rotate four players twice, so be it. But to rotate eight and then delay the subs till 70 mins...
I feel we made too many changes tonight and it became a ‘hit and hope’ game plan that didn’t deliver any points. Great for the fringe players, some of whom are surely in the last chance saloon, but did any of them barge their way into a starting place for Sunday?
Big improvement when we made the subs and if only we have brought them on earlier (even at half time) we might have got something from the game.
Telling that our B/Papa John’s team nearly held the league leaders away and a good sign, but Plymouth have now done the double over us this season and I don’t think that was a given.
Overall frustrated especially for the traveling fans.
All the more reason why tonight was a frustrating one. They were there for the taking and we probably would have won quite comfortably with our strongest 11 out there. That said, we have a squad for a reason and nobody knows if that was in fact our strongest available 11.
The last part is why I and perhaps others, are frustrated by the lack of information about player injuries and availability.
on the one hand we could be congratulating the management team for putting together an excellent squad with strength and depth who, thrown in at the deep end of injuries/illness/alien abduction shave gone to the league leaders in strong home form and nearly got something from the game.
on the other, Gaz has inexplicably made 8 changes and lost a game against a team that was there for the taking while simultaneously disrespecting the supporters that spent money tracking down there and/or buy hotels to stay over.
but you know, I’m still sure the secrecy is to our advantage and isn’t make an unnecessary Rod for the managements backs which has all the usual online messaging apps swirling with rumours.
I hear Mawson was probably spotted on Christmas Eve down at the falcon having a fry up and a pint for breakfast and this is the real reason he’s out of the team because GA wanted him to have one less rasher of bacon 🙄
Well done on missing the point. I’ve directly quoted extreme examples I have seen on both sides of the argument from last night alone, but the point remains, we can’t form an accurate picture or understanding of what’s going on without all the relevant information. Without that, people are left making things up to fill the gaps. Which inevitably means some peoples imagination run riot and to extremes - hence the made up Mawson example which is oddly familiar in regards to the random Taff Revs rumor.
I think from minutes 1-68 Plymouth were not there for the taking. When the subs came on 10 minutes too late we were the better side. Vokes inability to get a good finish again is frustrating and I will be that guy and say for his cost he should score, when AAH misses I’ll be more pragmatic.
Kaikai certainly gave something to the team but can he play with Mehmeti I don’t know. Horgan was fairly anonymous and was lucky to not get booked for his foul on Kaikai 🤦♂️. Thompson was great. Freeman played well in a more defensive role. TJ made a lovely cameo appearance. Mehmeti terrified them and once again showed why we should enjoy him whilst we can.
So first off glad to hear your lad is on his way home and that it wasn't more serious than it could have been, although it sounds like he was playing on in pain.
Second of all whilst it isn't my place to make apologies for anyone I think you have noticed that the vast majority of our fans abhorred then lunatic fringe that chanted such vile things when de Barr was down. The fact that every club has them is not an excuse for them still being in attendance and I hope if they can be identified they can be banned. We have had it before with Adam Stansfield....If you do manage to identify anyone, like the Twitter idiot then if you send through any evidence to Andrew Parkinson our CEO I know he will act.
As for the game, well we finally got a league double. Your team selection was bizarre at best and I can only assume it was enforced by injuries or illness because if it was a master plan it failed until you brought on the cavalry...by which time we should have been out of sight.
It was a nervy last fifteen, but we defended well and in reality Cooper had little to do. Nice of your lad to run and fetch the ball for his goal kick at the end, he would have got it eventually :)
If you can get your first XIO back firing I think you will be fine and probably in the play offs although you could still go further as there is plenty of time. Ipswich seem to be uo and down and Wednesday lost Bannan again to his hamstring last night....
Aye. This may be one of the times where the club will have to disclose his injury situation because of the circumstances of his collapse. But since he's been discharged I think we can rule out anything properly serious. Hopefully just a few weeks out rather than another stretch of months out.
TBH I’m expecting that Anis will be gone in either 1-5 weeks from now, he’s simply far too much of a talent for this level of football.
On the assumption that De Barr recovers and gets cleared to play football again, we at least have options in Freeman, Kai Kai, De Barr and Hanlan that can fill in his role until the end of season in my opinion although with an early sale we would probably reinvest at least some of the cash.
When I saw Anis was on the bench my first thought was ‘we’ve had a serious offer for him’.
Like others I just don’t see it in Al Hamidi, and with the emergence of Freeman, and having both Wing and Thompson freeing up Wheeler to play further forward again I think it was last chance saloon for Horgan yesterday. Expecting a loan out for him.
As I said, I wasn’t able to watch the game so can’t comment, but to say they were ‘there for the taking’ and we ‘probably would have won quite easily with our strongest 11’ is all very well in hindsight. Their home record is second to none (P12 W11) so not many would have predicted an away win before k.o.
Al Hamidi has this bizarre trait of completely turning his back on the ball as it comes over his head. By not glancing or slightly angling his body to check the flight of the ball, he is basically running head down and blind as to where the ball will land.
It's something I've noticed a number of times when Hamidi has played. The last time I saw anyone do it regularly was playing Sunday league football.
Plymouth were hardly a team for the taking. They were big strong lots of niggly fouls and holding and kicking ball away - they seemed to be modelled on our style. Couple that with getting the ball forward quickly to dangerous forwards and not hard to see why they are in the league position they are. Had we started with the “first team” every chance the result would have been the same.
Frustrating night, soon as the team was announced it felt like we'd lost before even kicking a ball.
Awful goal to concede and that's Plymouth's first goal from a corner this season.
As a few have mentioned I feel the subs should have come on earlier but if I'm honest they should of been out of sight by the time they did come on.
Few poor performances and probably the worst I've seen Forino play, Horgan offered nothing and it just didn't click for any of the attckers who started.
As for Tjay I've never seen anything like that live and hopefully won't see it again. Really worrying at the time but fingers crossed its not to serious, on a playing side he was really lively when he come on.
That game could genuinely have gone either way last night. We should definitely have been one nil up in the first half from the Taffazolli header. That's as good a chance as you will see.
All in all, I think credit to the management more than criticism. His selection and tactics very nearly came off, and I'm very excited about what we can achieve in the second half of the season
(I really, really hope we can keep Anis mind. Although I have this nagging thought that Andrew Howard has been brought in to negotiate his sale)
The rights and wrongs of making a changes the subject of valid debate.
The rights and wrongs of making 8 changes are the subject of valid debate.
however, taking the broader view, I wonder why Gareth and indeed maybe other managers are put in this position? Playing Monday Thursday Sunday seems ridiculous and unnecessary to me. Also some teams will have another league game or FA Cup tie a week tomorrow. At least we are spared that. I’m not in the camp of saying that footballers are overworked, but this does seem daft to have matches on a Thursday night between Christmas and New Year. Every club has a home match over the Christmas and New Year period so playing a game mid week is not necessary on that front.
there are quite a few Tuesdays when no games are scheduled throughout the season, so why cram them in at this time of the year. The blank mid week that always puzzles me is the mid week following the opening Saturday of the season.no games are ever scheduled for a time of year when players are fresh and the weather is very good. The season always starts with a full fixture list on the Saturday and then nothing until the following Saturday. We then have the league cup ties the following mid week.
Fully agree. If Vokes puts away one of those chances and / or we defend a corner a bit better, we come away with points and it looks like brilliant management. If we'd spent the game being overrun I've have a different view, but we were competitive against a team that's top, and their chances came mostly from individual errors rather than systemic issues. There have been games when we've got things competely wrong this season (Bolton away, for example), but this wasn't one of them in my opinion.
More to the point though, two other things stood out from the selection. Firstly, we all recognise that we've had a 'traditional' Christmas slump in a number of the Ainsworth seasons. Credit to the management team for doing something to address that. Whether or not it works - I want to see them innovate.
Second, I'd much rather we have one game without Mawson, Vokes, Scowen, Mehmeti or McCleary (all of whom have played a lot of minutes this year) and make sure they're fit for the next few months rather than pushing them beyond their limits for the sake of a single game. Clearly with injury records and age, it would have been a risk to start that group three times in quick succession. You could maybe make the case that Wheeler and Wing coud have started, but I don't think that would have changed the game all that much. Even if we don't beat Peterborough, with those players fit and Thompson back I think we're going to have a very strong second half of the season.
The second half of the season does hinge on life after Mehmeti. It’s an unknown. However, if Thompson can stay fit and play like that most weeks, we could make playoffs.
Spot on @Glenny. Gareth Ainsworth did say in an interview last week that he was planning something different for this year’s Christmas/New Year matches.
“Different” doesn’t do justice to what he and Dobbo conjured up yesterday! “Radical” is the word and, as @Jonny_King remarked on commentary, the starting lineup caused him initial panic rather than just raised eyebrows as @bluntphil had suggested 😳 !!
My own initial reaction was that there was no way that such a Papa John type lineup could come away with the point which I’d predicted. Also, for a minute or two (on a small laptop screen) I didn’t recognise Max in that particular top.
As the match proceeded (at least until the sloppy goal) my own confidence grew and I began to believe that we could at least salvage a point. There was one point early on when Al-Hamadi showed Mehmeti-like footwork, cutting in along the goal line from the left. KaiKai and Hanlan were also looking lively but that goal clearly gave the confidence a knock.
I’m sure I’m not alone in hoping that illness and injuries were not behind GA’s radically changed team selection and that the lineup on Sunday will have a more familiar look.
Comments
Genuine, dignified response and what a change from a certain other Liverpudlian manager whose team lost tonight.
Very happy De Barr seems at least okay, though with obvious concerns still there.
As for the football, just disappointed we would dull our own momentum. If we lose at Peterborough because we rotate four players twice, so be it. But to rotate eight and then delay the subs till 70 mins...
I feel we made too many changes tonight and it became a ‘hit and hope’ game plan that didn’t deliver any points. Great for the fringe players, some of whom are surely in the last chance saloon, but did any of them barge their way into a starting place for Sunday?
Big improvement when we made the subs and if only we have brought them on earlier (even at half time) we might have got something from the game.
Telling that our B/Papa John’s team nearly held the league leaders away and a good sign, but Plymouth have now done the double over us this season and I don’t think that was a given.
Overall frustrated especially for the traveling fans.
All the more reason why tonight was a frustrating one. They were there for the taking and we probably would have won quite comfortably with our strongest 11 out there. That said, we have a squad for a reason and nobody knows if that was in fact our strongest available 11.
The last part is why I and perhaps others, are frustrated by the lack of information about player injuries and availability.
on the one hand we could be congratulating the management team for putting together an excellent squad with strength and depth who, thrown in at the deep end of injuries/illness/alien abduction shave gone to the league leaders in strong home form and nearly got something from the game.
on the other, Gaz has inexplicably made 8 changes and lost a game against a team that was there for the taking while simultaneously disrespecting the supporters that spent money tracking down there and/or buy hotels to stay over.
but you know, I’m still sure the secrecy is to our advantage and isn’t make an unnecessary Rod for the managements backs which has all the usual online messaging apps swirling with rumours.
I hear Mawson was probably spotted on Christmas Eve down at the falcon having a fry up and a pint for breakfast and this is the real reason he’s out of the team because GA wanted him to have one less rasher of bacon 🙄
I think it does Plymouth a bit of a disservice to say they were 'there for the taking'. They defended superbly.
Well done on missing the point. I’ve directly quoted extreme examples I have seen on both sides of the argument from last night alone, but the point remains, we can’t form an accurate picture or understanding of what’s going on without all the relevant information. Without that, people are left making things up to fill the gaps. Which inevitably means some peoples imagination run riot and to extremes - hence the made up Mawson example which is oddly familiar in regards to the random Taff Revs rumor.
I think from minutes 1-68 Plymouth were not there for the taking. When the subs came on 10 minutes too late we were the better side. Vokes inability to get a good finish again is frustrating and I will be that guy and say for his cost he should score, when AAH misses I’ll be more pragmatic.
Kaikai certainly gave something to the team but can he play with Mehmeti I don’t know. Horgan was fairly anonymous and was lucky to not get booked for his foul on Kaikai 🤦♂️. Thompson was great. Freeman played well in a more defensive role. TJ made a lovely cameo appearance. Mehmeti terrified them and once again showed why we should enjoy him whilst we can.
No idea why this got a negative response.
At what point do we just admit it's not really worked with him?
Good morning
So first off glad to hear your lad is on his way home and that it wasn't more serious than it could have been, although it sounds like he was playing on in pain.
Second of all whilst it isn't my place to make apologies for anyone I think you have noticed that the vast majority of our fans abhorred then lunatic fringe that chanted such vile things when de Barr was down. The fact that every club has them is not an excuse for them still being in attendance and I hope if they can be identified they can be banned. We have had it before with Adam Stansfield....If you do manage to identify anyone, like the Twitter idiot then if you send through any evidence to Andrew Parkinson our CEO I know he will act.
As for the game, well we finally got a league double. Your team selection was bizarre at best and I can only assume it was enforced by injuries or illness because if it was a master plan it failed until you brought on the cavalry...by which time we should have been out of sight.
It was a nervy last fifteen, but we defended well and in reality Cooper had little to do. Nice of your lad to run and fetch the ball for his goal kick at the end, he would have got it eventually :)
If you can get your first XIO back firing I think you will be fine and probably in the play offs although you could still go further as there is plenty of time. Ipswich seem to be uo and down and Wednesday lost Bannan again to his hamstring last night....
Until next time....
It's reassuring to know it relates to a clattering incident, rather than going down out of the blue.
Bit coughing blood is never good and if it happened early on its worrying he stayed on. However, maybe it was only at the end?
Sounds to be on the up though if he's been discharged etc.
Aye. This may be one of the times where the club will have to disclose his injury situation because of the circumstances of his collapse. But since he's been discharged I think we can rule out anything properly serious. Hopefully just a few weeks out rather than another stretch of months out.
TBH I’m expecting that Anis will be gone in either 1-5 weeks from now, he’s simply far too much of a talent for this level of football.
On the assumption that De Barr recovers and gets cleared to play football again, we at least have options in Freeman, Kai Kai, De Barr and Hanlan that can fill in his role until the end of season in my opinion although with an early sale we would probably reinvest at least some of the cash.
When I saw Anis was on the bench my first thought was ‘we’ve had a serious offer for him’.
Like others I just don’t see it in Al Hamidi, and with the emergence of Freeman, and having both Wing and Thompson freeing up Wheeler to play further forward again I think it was last chance saloon for Horgan yesterday. Expecting a loan out for him.
I thought he was as good as anyone in the first half, and better than most. Think some people just don't want him here anymore
You wouldn't even have someone being sold in the squad surely? Let alone risk playing them.
Dobbo post match comments suggesting the team chosen was a tactical decision rather than (at least in most part) illness or injury.
As I said, I wasn’t able to watch the game so can’t comment, but to say they were ‘there for the taking’ and we ‘probably would have won quite easily with our strongest 11’ is all very well in hindsight. Their home record is second to none (P12 W11) so not many would have predicted an away win before k.o.
Al Hamidi has this bizarre trait of completely turning his back on the ball as it comes over his head. By not glancing or slightly angling his body to check the flight of the ball, he is basically running head down and blind as to where the ball will land.
It's something I've noticed a number of times when Hamidi has played. The last time I saw anyone do it regularly was playing Sunday league football.
Just saying it was my first thought.
I still will be amazed if he is here in February
Plymouth were hardly a team for the taking. They were big strong lots of niggly fouls and holding and kicking ball away - they seemed to be modelled on our style. Couple that with getting the ball forward quickly to dangerous forwards and not hard to see why they are in the league position they are. Had we started with the “first team” every chance the result would have been the same.
From what little I've seen of the 2 of them, Id say Tjay has more to offer. Ali just looks a bit out of his depth to me
Frustrating night, soon as the team was announced it felt like we'd lost before even kicking a ball.
Awful goal to concede and that's Plymouth's first goal from a corner this season.
As a few have mentioned I feel the subs should have come on earlier but if I'm honest they should of been out of sight by the time they did come on.
Few poor performances and probably the worst I've seen Forino play, Horgan offered nothing and it just didn't click for any of the attckers who started.
As for Tjay I've never seen anything like that live and hopefully won't see it again. Really worrying at the time but fingers crossed its not to serious, on a playing side he was really lively when he come on.
That game could genuinely have gone either way last night. We should definitely have been one nil up in the first half from the Taffazolli header. That's as good a chance as you will see.
All in all, I think credit to the management more than criticism. His selection and tactics very nearly came off, and I'm very excited about what we can achieve in the second half of the season
(I really, really hope we can keep Anis mind. Although I have this nagging thought that Andrew Howard has been brought in to negotiate his sale)
General thought.
The rights and wrongs of making a changes the subject of valid debate.
The rights and wrongs of making 8 changes are the subject of valid debate.
however, taking the broader view, I wonder why Gareth and indeed maybe other managers are put in this position? Playing Monday Thursday Sunday seems ridiculous and unnecessary to me. Also some teams will have another league game or FA Cup tie a week tomorrow. At least we are spared that. I’m not in the camp of saying that footballers are overworked, but this does seem daft to have matches on a Thursday night between Christmas and New Year. Every club has a home match over the Christmas and New Year period so playing a game mid week is not necessary on that front.
there are quite a few Tuesdays when no games are scheduled throughout the season, so why cram them in at this time of the year. The blank mid week that always puzzles me is the mid week following the opening Saturday of the season.no games are ever scheduled for a time of year when players are fresh and the weather is very good. The season always starts with a full fixture list on the Saturday and then nothing until the following Saturday. We then have the league cup ties the following mid week.
Monday, Thursday Sunday is only one day different to Saturday Tuesday Saturday.
True, but that 24 hours can make a big difference, especially when you’re on the road twice in three days.
Fully agree. If Vokes puts away one of those chances and / or we defend a corner a bit better, we come away with points and it looks like brilliant management. If we'd spent the game being overrun I've have a different view, but we were competitive against a team that's top, and their chances came mostly from individual errors rather than systemic issues. There have been games when we've got things competely wrong this season (Bolton away, for example), but this wasn't one of them in my opinion.
More to the point though, two other things stood out from the selection. Firstly, we all recognise that we've had a 'traditional' Christmas slump in a number of the Ainsworth seasons. Credit to the management team for doing something to address that. Whether or not it works - I want to see them innovate.
Second, I'd much rather we have one game without Mawson, Vokes, Scowen, Mehmeti or McCleary (all of whom have played a lot of minutes this year) and make sure they're fit for the next few months rather than pushing them beyond their limits for the sake of a single game. Clearly with injury records and age, it would have been a risk to start that group three times in quick succession. You could maybe make the case that Wheeler and Wing coud have started, but I don't think that would have changed the game all that much. Even if we don't beat Peterborough, with those players fit and Thompson back I think we're going to have a very strong second half of the season.
The second half of the season does hinge on life after Mehmeti. It’s an unknown. However, if Thompson can stay fit and play like that most weeks, we could make playoffs.
Spot on @Glenny. Gareth Ainsworth did say in an interview last week that he was planning something different for this year’s Christmas/New Year matches.
“Different” doesn’t do justice to what he and Dobbo conjured up yesterday! “Radical” is the word and, as @Jonny_King remarked on commentary, the starting lineup caused him initial panic rather than just raised eyebrows as @bluntphil had suggested 😳 !!
My own initial reaction was that there was no way that such a Papa John type lineup could come away with the point which I’d predicted. Also, for a minute or two (on a small laptop screen) I didn’t recognise Max in that particular top.
As the match proceeded (at least until the sloppy goal) my own confidence grew and I began to believe that we could at least salvage a point. There was one point early on when Al-Hamadi showed Mehmeti-like footwork, cutting in along the goal line from the left. KaiKai and Hanlan were also looking lively but that goal clearly gave the confidence a knock.
I’m sure I’m not alone in hoping that illness and injuries were not behind GA’s radically changed team selection and that the lineup on Sunday will have a more familiar look.
Excellent assessment and summing up.