Can't disagree with that, but Tom did quite literally seek out being a "celebrity fan", hence his idolisation of the strange bloke at Pompey.
What a total load of rubbish. The online bullying of a mentally troubled fan wasn't him trying to be a celebrity. His problems stopped him being able to react rationally and his responses to abuse has led to people abusing him more often.
He needs help but social media now means everyone can see the bullying and it becomes talked about. Still can't believe how many find it funny, how many blame him for everything and how many can't see they are part of the problem.
Can't disagree with that, but Tom did quite literally seek out being a "celebrity fan", hence his idolisation of the strange bloke at Pompey.
What a total load of rubbish. The online bullying of a mentally troubled fan wasn't him trying to be a celebrity. His problems stopped him being able to react rationally and his responses to abuse has led to people abusing him more often.
He needs help but social media now means everyone can see the bullying and it becomes talked about. Still can't believe how many find it funny, how many blame him for everything and how many can't see they are part of the problem.
How would you have addressed the problem, or are you saying there wasn't one?
Can't disagree with that, but Tom did quite literally seek out being a "celebrity fan", hence his idolisation of the strange bloke at Pompey.
What a total load of rubbish. The online bullying of a mentally troubled fan wasn't him trying to be a celebrity. His problems stopped him being able to react rationally and his responses to abuse has led to people abusing him more often.
He needs help but social media now means everyone can see the bullying and it becomes talked about. Still can't believe how many find it funny, how many blame him for everything and how many can't see they are part of the problem.
No, his own words and actions of wanting to be like Pompey Westwood was him trying to be a celebrity fan.
I don't blame Tom really at all, I don't think he knows any better. I blame his supposed friends/ support for letting it get to where it is now, as I agree he can't react rationally, he needed someone he trusted to tell him a few things he didn't want to hear that would help in the long run- from everything I've seen and heard, that never really happened.
Can't disagree with that, but Tom did quite literally seek out being a "celebrity fan", hence his idolisation of the strange bloke at Pompey.
What a total load of rubbish. The online bullying of a mentally troubled fan wasn't him trying to be a celebrity. His problems stopped him being able to react rationally and his responses to abuse has led to people abusing him more often.
He needs help but social media now means everyone can see the bullying and it becomes talked about. Still can't believe how many find it funny, how many blame him for everything and how many can't see they are part of the problem.
@Right_in_the_Middle You've hit the nail right on the head there. Best post I've seen on this subject.
And another thing. Who has ever expected a terrace 'choir' to sing like Kings College Chapel? Answer - no-one.
The off-key singing, sometimes obscene language, and lame humour is broadly tolerated.
So why would anyone expect a terrace drummer to keep perfect time 100% of the time?
Sorry, but I just consider Tom to be an easy target for the online and terrace bullies in all this.
If it was the guy with the tattooed head, would anyone have a go? I doubt it.
Can't disagree with that, but Tom did quite literally seek out being a "celebrity fan", hence his idolisation of the strange bloke at Pompey.
What a total load of rubbish. The online bullying of a mentally troubled fan wasn't him trying to be a celebrity. His problems stopped him being able to react rationally and his responses to abuse has led to people abusing him more often.
He needs help but social media now means everyone can see the bullying and it becomes talked about. Still can't believe how many find it funny, how many blame him for everything and how many can't see they are part of the problem.
@Right_in_the_Middle You've hit the nail right on the head there. Best post I've seen on this subject.
And another thing. Who has ever expected a terrace 'choir' to sing like Kings College Chapel? Answer - no-one.
The off-key singing, sometimes obscene language, and lame humour is broadly tolerated.
So why would anyone expect a terrace drummer to keep perfect time 100% of the time?
Sorry, but I just consider Tom to be an easy target for the online and terrace bullies in all this.
If it was the guy with the tattooed head, would anyone have a go? I doubt it.
Absolute nonsense, and yes, if the tattooed face guy was smashing the drum out of time for 90 minutes with no consideration for the rest of the terrace I would have exactly the same opinion and would let him know at the game- which I never did with Tom because I knew his circumstances- I know I'm not the only one who bit their lip at games for the same reason
There's clearly a difference between bad singing and bad drumming. Bad singing might annoy the people either side of you, bad drumming kills off chants and pisses of hundreds/ thousands.
Being the terrace drummer comes with some responsibilities and a few skills are required for it to work- singing doesn't
Can't disagree with that, but Tom did quite literally seek out being a "celebrity fan", hence his idolisation of the strange bloke at Pompey.
What a total load of rubbish. The online bullying of a mentally troubled fan wasn't him trying to be a celebrity. His problems stopped him being able to react rationally and his responses to abuse has led to people abusing him more often.
He needs help but social media now means everyone can see the bullying and it becomes talked about. Still can't believe how many find it funny, how many blame him for everything and how many can't see they are part of the problem.
How would you have addressed the problem, or are you saying there wasn't one?
The club addressed an effect because in reality they can't affect the route cause. Online and in person bullying of a mentally challenged and vulnerable person is not a Wycombe Wanderers problem. It is a society one.
The club should be doing more to highlight mental health issues as it is a sporting hot topic with Ben Stokes and a society one with the pandemic and the horror of social media.
If just a few more people learnt to understand it would improve the environment to allow guys like Tom to thrive.
Can't disagree with that, but Tom did quite literally seek out being a "celebrity fan", hence his idolisation of the strange bloke at Pompey.
What a total load of rubbish. The online bullying of a mentally troubled fan wasn't him trying to be a celebrity. His problems stopped him being able to react rationally and his responses to abuse has led to people abusing him more often.
He needs help but social media now means everyone can see the bullying and it becomes talked about. Still can't believe how many find it funny, how many blame him for everything and how many can't see they are part of the problem.
How would you have addressed the problem, or are you saying there wasn't one?
Yeah I'm interested in this too. I'm also intrigued as to what behaviour the masses should accept if one individual does something for their own mental health, yet causes everyone else a much less enjoyable experience?
@NewburyWanderer said: @Username Bad singing can also piss off plenty of people - the Stuart Beavon chant at Burton a few years ago might be a good example.
Ed Sheeran has made a living out of it and now sponsors Ipswich, funny old game.
Being a little more serious Dev's comment above is spot on and a bit of a Mic drop moment. People who are still desperate to have a go at Tom or ridicule him need to have a word with themselves. In tune obviously.
@NewburyWanderer said: @Username Bad singing can also piss off plenty of people - the Stuart Beavon chant at Burton a few years ago might be a good example.
Agreed. But the beauty with singing is it tends to be much less loud, much less constant, and you can very easily move away from it within a stand.
I read about the drum issues many a time, but I think it was Stevenage away I first understood the complaints. In that stand, even stood in the far end, it was really overpowering and did make the night less fun than it should have been.
Whatever issues someone has, that doesn't give them carte blanche to be a nuisance to hundreds of other paying punters.
Trying to frame this as solely a bullying problem is just disingenuous. Yes there's a few idiots, but the crux of the problem was that Tom didn't, or couldn't learn how to be a drummer that brought the terrace together.
Being able to read the crowd and being able to hit the drum vaguely in time are pretty vital skills to have for that role don't you think? Being able to take the inevitable criticism that comes with taking a loud musical instrument into a football ground- which can be divisive at the best of times, is also pretty key.
I condemn people that sent him abuse or crossed that line, but they came after the root problem
Can't disagree with that, but Tom did quite literally seek out being a "celebrity fan", hence his idolisation of the strange bloke at Pompey.
What a total load of rubbish. The online bullying of a mentally troubled fan wasn't him trying to be a celebrity. His problems stopped him being able to react rationally and his responses to abuse has led to people abusing him more often.
He needs help but social media now means everyone can see the bullying and it becomes talked about. Still can't believe how many find it funny, how many blame him for everything and how many can't see they are part of the problem.
How would you have addressed the problem, or are you saying there wasn't one?
The club addressed an effect because in reality they can't affect the route cause. Online and in person bullying of a mentally challenged and vulnerable person is not a Wycombe Wanderers problem. It is a society one.
The club should be doing more to highlight mental health issues as it is a sporting hot topic with Ben Stokes and a society one with the pandemic and the horror of social media.
If just a few more people learnt to understand it would improve the environment to allow guys like Tom to thrive.
That hasn't answered my question though. Would you have allowed Tom to carry on drumming, and if so, how would you as a club employee have addressed any aggro/bullying arising from his drumming.
You blandly say that the club should have done more but fail to suggest what they should/could do. The WW Sports and Education Trust does a lot of work with Mind in connection with mental health issues, so I think your criticism of them is a little harsh.
I do agree with you that it is a society problem which realistically only the Government can make any substantial improvement.
We do have some fans that really take exception to the idea of a "super fan".
We saw the grief Lisa B used to get, when all she did was go to all the games, and do a lot of volunteering - nothing that should bother anyone, in fact stuff that should be seen as admirable.
THAT is what I would call bullying. The Tom scenario is a fair bit different.
And like @usename says, any actual abuse sent his way is totally out of order, and like @Right_in_the_Middle said, I can understand why he'd fall into the trap of defending himself, and dealing with it like for like.
I don’t really know that much about this that never usually stops me) other than what I’ve read and am not a terrace dweller and with the exception of Scunthorpe away a few years ago (when if seemed fine) have barely noticed the drumming on my occasional away trips.
But people ‘blaming’ Tom for his actions/behaviour are way off the mark and show a certain lack of sympathy and empathy for a young man who seems to see the world a little bit differently to most of us.
This isn’t to say that his actions/behaviour should be acceptable if they are to the detriment of others enjoyment of the ‘match day experience’ but it means that it should be handled carefully.
The fact that it has taken a long time to reach this position does seem to suggest that the club understand this and have probably tried all reasonable avenues.
I would however rather stand next to Tom on the terrace banging his drum for 90 odd minutes (okay probably with ear plugs) than spend any time next to those who have abused or bullied him for doing what he sees as the best way to support his club
Guys...Tom has posted a tweet talking about his previous suicide attempts and how all this is making him feel. I reached out to him whether genuine or not but can we please stop making him a subject?
As Wycombe fans and as human beings...can we please think about this kids welfare and look out for him?
Drumming aside, he is a person and has feelings luke all of us. By the sounds of it he is very sensitive so let's drop it
I know we are not a site for locking threads, but in light of the above, it would seem prudent to restrain ourselves from posting further on the matter.
Comments
TACRITE(EEP)?
What a total load of rubbish. The online bullying of a mentally troubled fan wasn't him trying to be a celebrity. His problems stopped him being able to react rationally and his responses to abuse has led to people abusing him more often.
He needs help but social media now means everyone can see the bullying and it becomes talked about. Still can't believe how many find it funny, how many blame him for everything and how many can't see they are part of the problem.
Now I'm agreeing with Righty
Same. I might bring up planning permission.
How would you have addressed the problem, or are you saying there wasn't one?
No, his own words and actions of wanting to be like Pompey Westwood was him trying to be a celebrity fan.
I don't blame Tom really at all, I don't think he knows any better. I blame his supposed friends/ support for letting it get to where it is now, as I agree he can't react rationally, he needed someone he trusted to tell him a few things he didn't want to hear that would help in the long run- from everything I've seen and heard, that never really happened.
@Right_in_the_Middle You've hit the nail right on the head there. Best post I've seen on this subject.
And another thing. Who has ever expected a terrace 'choir' to sing like Kings College Chapel? Answer - no-one.
The off-key singing, sometimes obscene language, and lame humour is broadly tolerated.
So why would anyone expect a terrace drummer to keep perfect time 100% of the time?
Sorry, but I just consider Tom to be an easy target for the online and terrace bullies in all this.
If it was the guy with the tattooed head, would anyone have a go? I doubt it.
Absolute nonsense, and yes, if the tattooed face guy was smashing the drum out of time for 90 minutes with no consideration for the rest of the terrace I would have exactly the same opinion and would let him know at the game- which I never did with Tom because I knew his circumstances- I know I'm not the only one who bit their lip at games for the same reason
@Username Why is it nonsense? Makes perfect sense to me.
There's clearly a difference between bad singing and bad drumming. Bad singing might annoy the people either side of you, bad drumming kills off chants and pisses of hundreds/ thousands.
Being the terrace drummer comes with some responsibilities and a few skills are required for it to work- singing doesn't
The club addressed an effect because in reality they can't affect the route cause. Online and in person bullying of a mentally challenged and vulnerable person is not a Wycombe Wanderers problem. It is a society one.
The club should be doing more to highlight mental health issues as it is a sporting hot topic with Ben Stokes and a society one with the pandemic and the horror of social media.
If just a few more people learnt to understand it would improve the environment to allow guys like Tom to thrive.
@Username Bad singing can also piss off plenty of people - the Stuart Beavon chant at Burton a few years ago might be a good example.
Yeah I'm interested in this too. I'm also intrigued as to what behaviour the masses should accept if one individual does something for their own mental health, yet causes everyone else a much less enjoyable experience?
Ed Sheeran has made a living out of it and now sponsors Ipswich, funny old game.
Being a little more serious Dev's comment above is spot on and a bit of a Mic drop moment. People who are still desperate to have a go at Tom or ridicule him need to have a word with themselves. In tune obviously.
Agreed. But the beauty with singing is it tends to be much less loud, much less constant, and you can very easily move away from it within a stand.
I read about the drum issues many a time, but I think it was Stevenage away I first understood the complaints. In that stand, even stood in the far end, it was really overpowering and did make the night less fun than it should have been.
Whatever issues someone has, that doesn't give them carte blanche to be a nuisance to hundreds of other paying punters.
Trying to frame this as solely a bullying problem is just disingenuous. Yes there's a few idiots, but the crux of the problem was that Tom didn't, or couldn't learn how to be a drummer that brought the terrace together.
Being able to read the crowd and being able to hit the drum vaguely in time are pretty vital skills to have for that role don't you think? Being able to take the inevitable criticism that comes with taking a loud musical instrument into a football ground- which can be divisive at the best of times, is also pretty key.
I condemn people that sent him abuse or crossed that line, but they came after the root problem
That hasn't answered my question though. Would you have allowed Tom to carry on drumming, and if so, how would you as a club employee have addressed any aggro/bullying arising from his drumming.
You blandly say that the club should have done more but fail to suggest what they should/could do. The WW Sports and Education Trust does a lot of work with Mind in connection with mental health issues, so I think your criticism of them is a little harsh.
I do agree with you that it is a society problem which realistically only the Government can make any substantial improvement.
I don't want to see a repeat of Stevenage but Thomas is entitled to take his drum with him to away games, where allowed.
We do have some fans that really take exception to the idea of a "super fan".
We saw the grief Lisa B used to get, when all she did was go to all the games, and do a lot of volunteering - nothing that should bother anyone, in fact stuff that should be seen as admirable.
THAT is what I would call bullying. The Tom scenario is a fair bit different.
And like @usename says, any actual abuse sent his way is totally out of order, and like @Right_in_the_Middle said, I can understand why he'd fall into the trap of defending himself, and dealing with it like for like.
I don’t really know that much about this that never usually stops me) other than what I’ve read and am not a terrace dweller and with the exception of Scunthorpe away a few years ago (when if seemed fine) have barely noticed the drumming on my occasional away trips.
But people ‘blaming’ Tom for his actions/behaviour are way off the mark and show a certain lack of sympathy and empathy for a young man who seems to see the world a little bit differently to most of us.
This isn’t to say that his actions/behaviour should be acceptable if they are to the detriment of others enjoyment of the ‘match day experience’ but it means that it should be handled carefully.
The fact that it has taken a long time to reach this position does seem to suggest that the club understand this and have probably tried all reasonable avenues.
I would however rather stand next to Tom on the terrace banging his drum for 90 odd minutes (okay probably with ear plugs) than spend any time next to those who have abused or bullied him for doing what he sees as the best way to support his club
Guys...Tom has posted a tweet talking about his previous suicide attempts and how all this is making him feel. I reached out to him whether genuine or not but can we please stop making him a subject?
As Wycombe fans and as human beings...can we please think about this kids welfare and look out for him?
Drumming aside, he is a person and has feelings luke all of us. By the sounds of it he is very sensitive so let's drop it
Thanks for sharing that @thecatwwfc
I know we are not a site for locking threads, but in light of the above, it would seem prudent to restrain ourselves from posting further on the matter.
Indeed. I’m going to sink this.