@our_frank said: @peterparrotface It used to be on the ledge. And in the pre-lockdown season, I remember a little on the floor. But now the amount on the floor has made Pseud's Corner a health hazard and uninhabitable. Frankly, it's disgusting and not at all befitting of the "best stadium in the country" or whatever it's supposed to be. Hopefully they will have attended to it before your return and @LX1 coming along for the Most Important Game of the Season.
This and related previous posts have left me puzzled. Don’t know what the ledge is or what is left on it that is going to be unpleasant for Jon to deal with. Sorry. ?
@micra said:
In the world of jazz, rock and pop, drums get very mixed reactions from fellow musicians and, amongst the general public, significant numbers would not even classify them as musical instruments. But in the hands (literally) of the best, they are essential to the overall sound or at least enhance it and solos can border on melodic. I have in mind the likes of Shelly Manne, Connie Kay (Modern Jazz Quartet), Joe Morello (Dave Brubeck Quartet), Charlie Watts (Stones) and the recently departed Colin Bowden, a British New Orleans style drummer, regarded by most traditional jazz aficionados as the best ever in that particular style.
@Right_in_the_Middle said:
Really sad decision but a real reflection on how tough educating people on mental health can be. Absolutely hate the drumming but it sounds like the issue is more around the reaction of some to the drummer.
Fulham embraced a fan getting abuse for who he is. Not sure we’ve done enough
I too am in agreement with you @Right_in_the_Middle, and wonder how long before those very same people who have reacted badly are complaining about the lack of noise/atmosphere on the terrace?
@Right_in_the_Middle said:
Really sad decision but a real reflection on how tough educating people on mental health can be. Absolutely hate the drumming but it sounds like the issue is more around the reaction of some to the drummer.
Fulham embraced a fan getting abuse for who he is. Not sure we’ve done enough
I too am in agreement with you @Right_in_the_Middle, and wonder how long before those very same people who have reacted badly are complaining about the lack of noise/atmosphere on the terrace?
Couldn’t really care less about them moaning about a lack of noise. What would be ironic would be if those who treated the drummer so badly starting moaning about being constantly abused for doing something they thought was a good thing.
As I have said before, not a fan of the drumming myself which is why I am in the (whatever the Beechdean is called now) stand but it did seem like a very complicated issue for the club to successfully resolve to everyone's satisfaction.
This is a shame. I have found it a bit irritating in the past but on balance the drumming does more good than bad in my opinion.
I understand some people’s frustration but some of the comments I’ve seen equate to little more than bullying.
Imagine you were doing something you really enjoyed and put your heart and soul into it every week. And then you find you’re regularly given a load of abuse both in person and online as a result. Enough to make anyone feel pretty shitty I imagine.
He's sent his fair share of abuse himself / got right in people's faces at games. It was a mess of a situation and the club did all they could to try and relieve it without having to take the nuclear option - but evidently it didn't work. I look forward to the atmosphere improving now!
Unfortunately there are , in my opinion, no winners in this situation. Bullying of any sort is unacceptable but the club had to act before things got totally out of hand. Hopefully everyone can move forward without recriminations.
Lets just hope that they don't decide to play drums on the speakers around the ground. They tried it a long time ago, I'm thinking Sanchez-era which I believe caused a small divide between the club and terrace fans.
@davecz said:
Unfortunately there are , in my opinion, no winners in this situation. Bullying of any sort is unacceptable but the club had to act before things got totally out of hand. Hopefully everyone can move forward without recriminations.
Could the club have brought all parties together to mediate a compromise or solution between everyone involved?
I've been trying to think of the best way that this drumming fiasco could be approached.
Tom wants to play the drum for pretty much the whole 90 mins, as that is what gets him going, he loves it and crucially he 100% believes this is best for everyone to create an atmosphere.
It would seem the majority of fans are happy for him to drum but would prefer this is intermittent rather than constant.
Mediation has been tried between both parties but with little success.
My concern now is what happens next, as his passion for the club was previously expressed through drumming. Without the drum will this become a bigger issue.
Surely something more positive could have been done than what has actually now happened and perhaps the club could have reached out to him more to help him more, particularly if they want to be a pillar of the community.
(Perhaps they did and he has chosen to decline the offer.)
Overall it shows how badly equipped we are as a society to discuss and mediate these issues for all concerned parties.
He was literally offered drumming lessons and told the guy to f**k off.
He was beyond reason and the fact he genuinely thought smashing the drum for 90 minutes helped was part of the problem- he couldn't be talked round despite plenty of reasonable attempts. Abuse is wrong, but how many well meaning approaches do you make before you lose your tether?
And just because someone thinks what they're doing is right doesn't make it acceptable, if I thought screaming "C##t" for 90 minutes helped the team would that be ok?
@our_frank said: @peterparrotface It used to be on the ledge. And in the pre-lockdown season, I remember a little on the floor. But now the amount on the floor has made Pseud's Corner a health hazard and uninhabitable. Frankly, it's disgusting and not at all befitting of the "best stadium in the country" or whatever it's supposed to be. Hopefully they will have attended to it before your return and @LX1 coming along for the Most Important Game of the Season.
I resent the suggestion that my attendance is anywhere near as sketchy as @peterparrotface
There's an awful lot of assumptions in this thread about what the club hasn't done. Probably fair to assume the the club has done a lot more than you'll ever hear about through gossip or Facebook.
@Username said:
And just because someone thinks what they're doing is right doesn't make it acceptable, if I thought screaming "C##t" for 90 minutes helped the team would that be ok?
@drcongo said:
There's an awful lot of assumptions in this thread about what the club hasn't done. Probably fair to assume the the club has done a lot more than you'll ever hear about through gossip or Facebook.
Or at least tried to do.... Help isn't always accepted
No I hope he still attends the game, last couple of away games I noticed a bigger divide than normal and at MK it was getting a little toxic from both sides. He actually let some young kid play the drum for the 2nd half of the Shrewsbury game and that was an improvement from the 1st half.
This allowed Tom to walk up down the stairs with his back to the footy trying to get people to join in with the songs.
No I hope he still attends the game, last couple of away games I noticed a bigger divide than normal and at MK it was getting a little toxic from both sides. He actually let some young kid play the drum for the 2nd half of the Shrewsbury game and that was an improvement from the 1st half.
This allowed Tom to walk up down the stairs with his back to the footy trying to get people to join in with the songs.
Was going to mention the Shrewsbury situation.
He didn't play at all in the second half, so he clearly can deal without it.
Am sure this will rumble on. See how he approaches things at the next away.
@peterparrotface said: @Malone are quite a few people not going because of the drummer then?
@our_frank is it across the ledge at the top or at your feet? Hoping for a late November return to the home of the pretentious intelligentsia of the Valley End
I've heard a small amount of people say they've stopped because of him. But then we know people said they wouldn't come back until Hayes left...then didn't come back.
However, the club specifically referencing terrace sales going down is very interesting.
They wouldn't just make that up.
Comments
This and related previous posts have left me puzzled. Don’t know what the ledge is or what is left on it that is going to be unpleasant for Jon to deal with. Sorry. ?
Bird lime!
And Cozy Powell.
Not sure he'd suit the football, but Travis Barker is the best I've ever seen.
Maybe the club is hoping to cash in by reselling the guano as organic fertilizer?
I too am in agreement with you @Right_in_the_Middle, and wonder how long before those very same people who have reacted badly are complaining about the lack of noise/atmosphere on the terrace?
Couldn’t really care less about them moaning about a lack of noise. What would be ironic would be if those who treated the drummer so badly starting moaning about being constantly abused for doing something they thought was a good thing.
As I have said before, not a fan of the drumming myself which is why I am in the (whatever the Beechdean is called now) stand but it did seem like a very complicated issue for the club to successfully resolve to everyone's satisfaction.
This is a shame. I have found it a bit irritating in the past but on balance the drumming does more good than bad in my opinion.
I understand some people’s frustration but some of the comments I’ve seen equate to little more than bullying.
Imagine you were doing something you really enjoyed and put your heart and soul into it every week. And then you find you’re regularly given a load of abuse both in person and online as a result. Enough to make anyone feel pretty shitty I imagine.
He's sent his fair share of abuse himself / got right in people's faces at games. It was a mess of a situation and the club did all they could to try and relieve it without having to take the nuclear option - but evidently it didn't work. I look forward to the atmosphere improving now!
Unfortunately there are , in my opinion, no winners in this situation. Bullying of any sort is unacceptable but the club had to act before things got totally out of hand. Hopefully everyone can move forward without recriminations.
Lets just hope that they don't decide to play drums on the speakers around the ground. They tried it a long time ago, I'm thinking Sanchez-era which I believe caused a small divide between the club and terrace fans.
Could the club have brought all parties together to mediate a compromise or solution between everyone involved?
I've been trying to think of the best way that this drumming fiasco could be approached.
Tom wants to play the drum for pretty much the whole 90 mins, as that is what gets him going, he loves it and crucially he 100% believes this is best for everyone to create an atmosphere.
It would seem the majority of fans are happy for him to drum but would prefer this is intermittent rather than constant.
Mediation has been tried between both parties but with little success.
My concern now is what happens next, as his passion for the club was previously expressed through drumming. Without the drum will this become a bigger issue.
Surely something more positive could have been done than what has actually now happened and perhaps the club could have reached out to him more to help him more, particularly if they want to be a pillar of the community.
(Perhaps they did and he has chosen to decline the offer.)
Overall it shows how badly equipped we are as a society to discuss and mediate these issues for all concerned parties.
He was literally offered drumming lessons and told the guy to f**k off.
He was beyond reason and the fact he genuinely thought smashing the drum for 90 minutes helped was part of the problem- he couldn't be talked round despite plenty of reasonable attempts. Abuse is wrong, but how many well meaning approaches do you make before you lose your tether?
And just because someone thinks what they're doing is right doesn't make it acceptable, if I thought screaming "C##t" for 90 minutes helped the team would that be ok?
I resent the suggestion that my attendance is anywhere near as sketchy as @peterparrotface
Has the club confirmed singing on the terrace now be allowed or will Saturday's game now be something of a hum-no-drum affair?
There's an awful lot of assumptions in this thread about what the club hasn't done. Probably fair to assume the the club has done a lot more than you'll ever hear about through gossip or Facebook.
It would in Luton
Or at least tried to do.... Help isn't always accepted
Shame. When I have been to away games it's not the drummer that winds me up but the brainless chants from a few of our fans.
I bet there will be a demo in his support @DevC see you there?
Shame it's only at home games!
No I hope he still attends the game, last couple of away games I noticed a bigger divide than normal and at MK it was getting a little toxic from both sides. He actually let some young kid play the drum for the 2nd half of the Shrewsbury game and that was an improvement from the 1st half.
This allowed Tom to walk up down the stairs with his back to the footy trying to get people to join in with the songs.
Perhaps you and your co-activist Dev could chain yourselves to the goalposts on Saturday!
They would need long chains to attach DevC to the goal posts.
Was going to mention the Shrewsbury situation.
He didn't play at all in the second half, so he clearly can deal without it.
Am sure this will rumble on. See how he approaches things at the next away.
@ReturnToSenda Yes. Let's see if there's a change on Saturday. You're a terrace denizen yourself, right?
@Twizz Whether it's the fertilizer crisis or energy from waste, you'd think that there's an opportunity there for these sharp-elbowed business types.
@LX1 Fair point. I have no idea what you look like, but I look forward to sensing your presence for the St Albans game on 6th November.
@our_frank Not usually - although I might change that in light of today's developments!
The atmosphere was superb last Saturday I thought.
It always has far more to do with what's going on on the pitch than anything else
I've heard a small amount of people say they've stopped because of him. But then we know people said they wouldn't come back until Hayes left...then didn't come back.
However, the club specifically referencing terrace sales going down is very interesting.
They wouldn't just make that up.