@Right_in_the_Middle said:
What is this Karen thing? Heard it a few times recently
Karen likes to complain and speak to your manager.
Anyone that wants to complain and speak to your manager tends to be called Karen (in internet land anyway).
Ergo, people that like to whinge, moan and make a drama of things over the smallest slight,get called Karen.
@TheAndyGrahamFanClub said:
I’ve inadvertently engaged with Derby fans on Twitter. Safe to say the current position is Morris is honourable. Wycombe and Middlesbrough evil.
Morris would do a great job at number 10 right now as his spin powers are amazing.
I find it quite telling how quickly lots of Derby Fans jumped back onto the Mel Morris bandwagon after that statement. Almost like they hadn’t ever jumped off it or blamed him for their position in the first place.
The last day fail new story above is just stupid too as you might expect from the source. The idea that you're supposedly absolutely skint but you'd rather spend £2.5m on a phoney insurance policy than actually pay back any debt or talk to the people who are claiming is ridiculous. Again Morris could perform this role of underwriting the claims, he's almost pretending that is what he's proposing.
The administrators should be pushed aside and replaced by someone independent and competent before we are asked to drop any claim or HMRC asked to forgive a penny.
Re: Facebook Vs Twitter- Twitter is evil in a different way, anonymous hatred is regular and vile and the power of dismissive soundbites over reasoning has reduced the quality of debate far wider than Twitter.
Facebook with its targeting and profiling, and harbouring and supporting dangerous groups has probably had a far wider effect on people and it's owners have been proven to have ignored many obvious risks
@Right_in_the_Middle said:
What is this Karen thing? Heard it a few times recently
Karen likes to complain and speak to your manager.
Anyone that wants to complain and speak to your manager tends to be called Karen (in internet land anyway).
Ergo, people that like to whinge, moan and make a drama of things over the smallest slight,get called Karen.
Thanks. Makes sense but all very weird. Sounds like a perfect way to debase the debate to name calling rather than admit someone disagrees with you.
@Erroll_Sims said:
Absolutely as well as being a deeply misogynistic slur
Most definitely. When I hear Karen I immediately think of Karen in Outnumbered who despite her age was one of the most perceptive and amusing comic characters created in recent years.
I’ve enjoyed Twitter for a few years but it has gone mental recently. I can imagine a scenario in a lounge somewhere where a wife asks her husband what’s he doing on his phone and he replies ‘oh just responding to a tweet from the Met that I hope Cressida Dick and her family have something horrendous happen to them’. Well just don’t let your tea get cold darling.
You could spend a lifetime engaging with these people saying ‘what the hell are you doing typing this?’
I got called a 'specky tit' (which I assume is some kind of small garden bird) for jokingly suggesting Wycombe fans vote for Lewis Wing in Sheffield Wednesday's POTM poll. You don't even have to be trying to wind people up to get jumped on by those who are so blinded by their tribalism they've lost all sense of what's serious and what's not.
That's minor, not that Twitter would care if it wasn't - I reported several tweets calling Akinfenwa, well, you can guess what, and, as far as I can tell, they've taken no action over them. It's a digital Wild West. I'm thinking of quitting, even though I need it for publicising my work.
I find if you stay out of football Twitter it's not that bad, most of my timeline is informative stuff and people helping each other out. But then I very rarely use the website and I never use the official app, so I don't see all the random horror that Twitter likes to force into people's timelines.
Football Twitter is truly horrific though and it's entirely unsurprising that the press finds it so easy to paint all football fans as thick, racist, bigoted and violent, because one accidental foray into football Twitter will give you that impression too.
No idea I'm afraid, never used it. I use Tweetbot which gives you a timeline of tweets only from people you follow, in the order they posted them. No ads, no forced tweets. It also has the best filtering system you could imagine, so I haven't seen a tweet about Strictly Come Dancing or Love Island in years.
@drcongo said:
No idea I'm afraid, never used it. I use Tweetbot which gives you a timeline of tweets only from people you follow, in the order they posted them. No ads, no forced tweets. It also has the best filtering system you could imagine, so I haven't seen a tweet about Strictly Come Dancing or Love Island in years.
@drcongo said:
No idea I'm afraid, never used it. I use Tweetbot which gives you a timeline of tweets only from people you follow, in the order they posted them. No ads, no forced tweets. It also has the best filtering system you could imagine, so I haven't seen a tweet about Strictly Come Dancing or Love Island in years.
@ReturnToSenda said:
I got called a 'specky tit' (which I assume is some kind of small garden bird) for jokingly suggesting Wycombe fans vote for Lewis Wing in Sheffield Wednesday's POTM poll. You don't even have to be trying to wind people up to get jumped on by those who are so blinded by their tribalism they've lost all sense of what's serious and what's not.
That's minor, not that Twitter would care if it wasn't - I reported several tweets calling Akinfenwa, well, you can guess what, and, as far as I can tell, they've taken no action over them. It's a digital Wild West. I'm thinking of quitting, even though I need it for publicising my work.
After the Oxford playoff final I happened upon two accounts that had been set up the day after the final to throw racial abuse at Bayo and JJ. I’m no techy but I was able to trace the accounts back to another account and low behold an Oxford fan. I called him out. He then set up another account and used that to post abuse at himself saying he was the victim. I reported the whole lot to Twitter (I should have used social services too).
3 months later and long after I had forgotten this I got an email from Twitter saying I was right and the posts have been removed and the user warned.
Why any celeb goes on twitter I don't know. Not without locking comments from morons anyway.
It's just a cesspool of people sending their abusive thoughts.
@Malone said:
Why any celeb goes on twitter I don't know. Not without locking comments from morons anyway.
It's just a cesspool of people sending their abusive thoughts.
I completely agree, it's just horrible. But, if I can just see tweets from who I want and in order they were posted as @drcongo said earlier I could possibly be tempted back... maybe... I'd give it a week anyway !
@Malone said:
Why any celeb goes on twitter I don't know. Not without locking comments from morons anyway.
It's just a cesspool of people sending their abusive thoughts.
Celeb’s use social media to control their message. They can bypass normal media outlets and perceived bias. I am certain many never read the responses.
Donald Trump would never have happened without Twitter. He made up his own narrative that many believed.
It frightening how powerful it can be. I hope it disappears soon.
@Malone said:
Why any celeb goes on twitter I don't know. Not without locking comments from morons anyway.
It's just a cesspool of people sending their abusive thoughts.
You should see half of them about Lewis Hamilton after his 2 months hiatus and posted “I’ve been away. Now I’m back”.
Apparently not talking constantly on Social media after the end of the F1 season means he’s massively selfish and has made the aftermath of the F1 season all about him. By. Not. Talking.
I'm not on twitter, and only really use it to see line-ups or a bit of what wwfc official post, but I get a taster of it on fb. Interactions with pals and people you know are ok, but the general type pages are dreadful.
One thing I hate about modern day football is the pure gloating over every little thing.
If someone goes past a defender and scores, they've |"owned" that defender etc.]
Fans of teams who have won recently after decades of nothing giving it loads are the worst.
@Malone said:
Why any celeb goes on twitter I don't know. Not without locking comments from morons anyway.
It's just a cesspool of people sending their abusive thoughts.
You should see half of them about Lewis Hamilton after his 2 months hiatus and posted “I’ve been away. Now I’m back”.
Apparently not talking constantly on Social media after the end of the F1 season means he’s massively selfish and has made the aftermath of the F1 season all about him. By. Not. Talking.
People take their view and very rarely let someone change it.
You see it with politics constantly.
However bad or sleazy the Tories get, they will still dress it up as "it'd be worse with Labour".
Disclaimer -that's the first and last time you'll ever hear me mentioning politics.
Good afternoon, new to the forum but have been reading for some time and the forum is brilliant. Enjoyed reading the last 79/80 pages of this huge story in football at the moment and would like to add some figures and clarity to it (well as much as i understand.)
Having browsed Companies House and used it myself for work, it's clear to see DCFC have some serious issues going on in the background. I'll explain and try and keep it simple..
DCFC are split into smaller companies,
Derby County FC Limited
Derby County FC Academy Limited
Stadia DCFC Limited
Club DCFC Limited
Sevco 5112 Limited
Gellaw Newco 203 Limited.
Mel Morris is the ultimate shareholder and controlled the above companies via Sevco from the 1st Sept 2015 - 1st July 2018 when it was bought by Morris' other company Gellaw Newco 203 Limited.
During Covid it was apparent Morris' funding was running out and a loss of 54% of matchday revenue was killing the club. Documents confirm he was looking to plug gaps of £30-£40m and couldn't maintain it and started looking for further investment. Failing to do so then looked for a buyer, discussions took place but ultimately fell flat and had no alternative to put the companies/club into Administration. 19th August 2021 saw the appointment of Quantuma to undertake a high-level review of the companies management & accounts in order to provide viable solutions to the situation.
Assets
It should be noted that Morris has held onto the ownership or the stadium and the playing staff went under a valuation by the Twenty First Group Ltd.
Secured Creditors
A secured debt of £20,471.158 are secured on the above companies, the liability is classed as a contingent liability.
Preferential creditors are pension contributions of £323,180
Employee pension/holiday pay and arrears totalling £267, 203
2nd on the list of creditors is the HMRC PAYE £26,084,775
HMRC VAT totalling £554,774.
Further down the list there is various smaller creditors as follows;
Player reg fees £8,368,390
Secvo are owned £8,173,898
Advanced season tickets £6,098,644
Trade creditors £4,281,674
Club DCFC Limited are owed £4,100,006
EFL Covid loan, £584,400
Agent fees £504,156
Quantuma's fees at the moment sit at £1,241,987
Both Wycombe and Middlesbrough are not noted anywhere as a creditor on these documents and no figures have been included anywhere to bring Derby County FC out of administration either.
One last thing to note, Middlesbrough and Steve Gibson have referred to Mel Morris and stakeholders within the companies as systematically cheating and i wanted to understand how he may think this or why? Looking through accounts it seems to suggest at some point in the last 2-3 years Mel Morris increased the price of shares to do with DCFC which leaves a floating deficit on the balance sheet of an eye watering £153,914,144 which then puts the whole company balance sheets into a deficit of £162,769,171 of debt.
This then suggests to me the situation is not as clear as many are making out on the Derby side and the reason no buyer has been found is due to the root cause of the nature of the debt and working on a successful business plan to move the club forward. You then throw into the mix a potential -15 point deduction for not paying the right percentage of money to creditors and then relegate DCFC to League One the whole thing all of a sudden doesn't seem as appealing as some people make out.
That’s a magnificent magnum opus in my book @Maskell1982 so welcome aboard. I have a fairly feeble handle on these matters (as apparently a majority of Derby County fans do). But your detailed post brings home the full complexity and magnitude of the situation with which potential investors are confronted.
Tiny gripe (allegedly typical of me, I’m afraid) - para 6, “……there are various smaller creditors….” and “Secvo/Sevco (?) are owed £8,173,898.”
Hey @Maskell1982 thank you for that (staggering) and rather in depth appraisal of the goings on at Derby.
I still find it a real shame that despite the figures being in the public domain for all to see the Derby fans (and in all fairness the Derby local media outlets) still paint Morris as a dignified man who just made a mistake in getting them so close to the promised land. Whilst at the same time picking out (in order of hate) Middlesbrough, The EFL and Wycombe as the villains of the piece.
It is pretty clear for most to see that the EFL is not qualified to identify systematic and deliberate avoidance of financial fair play rules.
Comments
Karen likes to complain and speak to your manager.
Anyone that wants to complain and speak to your manager tends to be called Karen (in internet land anyway).
Ergo, people that like to whinge, moan and make a drama of things over the smallest slight,get called Karen.
I find it quite telling how quickly lots of Derby Fans jumped back onto the Mel Morris bandwagon after that statement. Almost like they hadn’t ever jumped off it or blamed him for their position in the first place.
I haven't had Facebook for years, but I can believe that - although it's not a very high bar to clear!
The last day fail new story above is just stupid too as you might expect from the source. The idea that you're supposedly absolutely skint but you'd rather spend £2.5m on a phoney insurance policy than actually pay back any debt or talk to the people who are claiming is ridiculous. Again Morris could perform this role of underwriting the claims, he's almost pretending that is what he's proposing.
The administrators should be pushed aside and replaced by someone independent and competent before we are asked to drop any claim or HMRC asked to forgive a penny.
Re: Facebook Vs Twitter- Twitter is evil in a different way, anonymous hatred is regular and vile and the power of dismissive soundbites over reasoning has reduced the quality of debate far wider than Twitter.
Facebook with its targeting and profiling, and harbouring and supporting dangerous groups has probably had a far wider effect on people and it's owners have been proven to have ignored many obvious risks
Would suggest to @Raminpeace and Derby fans they look here: https://www.oliverelliot.co.uk/insolvency-guides-and-information/remove-an-administrator/
Thanks. Makes sense but all very weird. Sounds like a perfect way to debase the debate to name calling rather than admit someone disagrees with you.
Absolutely as well as being a deeply misogynistic slur
Most definitely. When I hear Karen I immediately think of Karen in Outnumbered who despite her age was one of the most perceptive and amusing comic characters created in recent years.
I’ve enjoyed Twitter for a few years but it has gone mental recently. I can imagine a scenario in a lounge somewhere where a wife asks her husband what’s he doing on his phone and he replies ‘oh just responding to a tweet from the Met that I hope Cressida Dick and her family have something horrendous happen to them’. Well just don’t let your tea get cold darling.
You could spend a lifetime engaging with these people saying ‘what the hell are you doing typing this?’
I got called a 'specky tit' (which I assume is some kind of small garden bird) for jokingly suggesting Wycombe fans vote for Lewis Wing in Sheffield Wednesday's POTM poll. You don't even have to be trying to wind people up to get jumped on by those who are so blinded by their tribalism they've lost all sense of what's serious and what's not.
That's minor, not that Twitter would care if it wasn't - I reported several tweets calling Akinfenwa, well, you can guess what, and, as far as I can tell, they've taken no action over them. It's a digital Wild West. I'm thinking of quitting, even though I need it for publicising my work.
I find if you stay out of football Twitter it's not that bad, most of my timeline is informative stuff and people helping each other out. But then I very rarely use the website and I never use the official app, so I don't see all the random horror that Twitter likes to force into people's timelines.
Football Twitter is truly horrific though and it's entirely unsurprising that the press finds it so easy to paint all football fans as thick, racist, bigoted and violent, because one accidental foray into football Twitter will give you that impression too.
@drcongo It's just dawned on me that TweetDeck filters out all the crap you didn't ask for, doesn't it? Had never thought of using it as the default.
No idea I'm afraid, never used it. I use Tweetbot which gives you a timeline of tweets only from people you follow, in the order they posted them. No ads, no forced tweets. It also has the best filtering system you could imagine, so I haven't seen a tweet about Strictly Come Dancing or Love Island in years.
Interesting, might have to give it a go
Ah, looks like it's iOS only
He would mortgage number 10 to one of his companies
After the Oxford playoff final I happened upon two accounts that had been set up the day after the final to throw racial abuse at Bayo and JJ. I’m no techy but I was able to trace the accounts back to another account and low behold an Oxford fan. I called him out. He then set up another account and used that to post abuse at himself saying he was the victim. I reported the whole lot to Twitter (I should have used social services too).
3 months later and long after I had forgotten this I got an email from Twitter saying I was right and the posts have been removed and the user warned.
There’s no way I’d bother with Twitter if it wasn’t for Tweetbot. The official app is horrible.
Maybe I need to investigate this tweetbot ?!
Is it a setting on the actual app, or is it downloaded totally separate ?
It's a Mac / iOS app
Ahh I'm on android so no good. Thanks anyway
I did just Google though and was told 'Twidere x' is the best alternative for android... am I pushing my luck on here to ask if anyone has tried it ?
Why any celeb goes on twitter I don't know. Not without locking comments from morons anyway.
It's just a cesspool of people sending their abusive thoughts.
I completely agree, it's just horrible. But, if I can just see tweets from who I want and in order they were posted as @drcongo said earlier I could possibly be tempted back... maybe... I'd give it a week anyway !
Celeb’s use social media to control their message. They can bypass normal media outlets and perceived bias. I am certain many never read the responses.
Donald Trump would never have happened without Twitter. He made up his own narrative that many believed.
It frightening how powerful it can be. I hope it disappears soon.
You should see half of them about Lewis Hamilton after his 2 months hiatus and posted “I’ve been away. Now I’m back”.
Apparently not talking constantly on Social media after the end of the F1 season means he’s massively selfish and has made the aftermath of the F1 season all about him. By. Not. Talking.
I'm not on twitter, and only really use it to see line-ups or a bit of what wwfc official post, but I get a taster of it on fb. Interactions with pals and people you know are ok, but the general type pages are dreadful.
One thing I hate about modern day football is the pure gloating over every little thing.
If someone goes past a defender and scores, they've |"owned" that defender etc.]
Fans of teams who have won recently after decades of nothing giving it loads are the worst.
People take their view and very rarely let someone change it.
You see it with politics constantly.
However bad or sleazy the Tories get, they will still dress it up as "it'd be worse with Labour".
Disclaimer -that's the first and last time you'll ever hear me mentioning politics.
Good afternoon, new to the forum but have been reading for some time and the forum is brilliant. Enjoyed reading the last 79/80 pages of this huge story in football at the moment and would like to add some figures and clarity to it (well as much as i understand.)
Having browsed Companies House and used it myself for work, it's clear to see DCFC have some serious issues going on in the background. I'll explain and try and keep it simple..
DCFC are split into smaller companies,
Derby County FC Limited
Derby County FC Academy Limited
Stadia DCFC Limited
Club DCFC Limited
Sevco 5112 Limited
Gellaw Newco 203 Limited.
Mel Morris is the ultimate shareholder and controlled the above companies via Sevco from the 1st Sept 2015 - 1st July 2018 when it was bought by Morris' other company Gellaw Newco 203 Limited.
During Covid it was apparent Morris' funding was running out and a loss of 54% of matchday revenue was killing the club. Documents confirm he was looking to plug gaps of £30-£40m and couldn't maintain it and started looking for further investment. Failing to do so then looked for a buyer, discussions took place but ultimately fell flat and had no alternative to put the companies/club into Administration. 19th August 2021 saw the appointment of Quantuma to undertake a high-level review of the companies management & accounts in order to provide viable solutions to the situation.
Assets
It should be noted that Morris has held onto the ownership or the stadium and the playing staff went under a valuation by the Twenty First Group Ltd.
Secured Creditors
A secured debt of £20,471.158 are secured on the above companies, the liability is classed as a contingent liability.
Preferential creditors are pension contributions of £323,180
Employee pension/holiday pay and arrears totalling £267, 203
2nd on the list of creditors is the HMRC PAYE £26,084,775
HMRC VAT totalling £554,774.
Further down the list there is various smaller creditors as follows;
Player reg fees £8,368,390
Secvo are owned £8,173,898
Advanced season tickets £6,098,644
Trade creditors £4,281,674
Club DCFC Limited are owed £4,100,006
EFL Covid loan, £584,400
Agent fees £504,156
Quantuma's fees at the moment sit at £1,241,987
Both Wycombe and Middlesbrough are not noted anywhere as a creditor on these documents and no figures have been included anywhere to bring Derby County FC out of administration either.
One last thing to note, Middlesbrough and Steve Gibson have referred to Mel Morris and stakeholders within the companies as systematically cheating and i wanted to understand how he may think this or why? Looking through accounts it seems to suggest at some point in the last 2-3 years Mel Morris increased the price of shares to do with DCFC which leaves a floating deficit on the balance sheet of an eye watering £153,914,144 which then puts the whole company balance sheets into a deficit of £162,769,171 of debt.
This then suggests to me the situation is not as clear as many are making out on the Derby side and the reason no buyer has been found is due to the root cause of the nature of the debt and working on a successful business plan to move the club forward. You then throw into the mix a potential -15 point deduction for not paying the right percentage of money to creditors and then relegate DCFC to League One the whole thing all of a sudden doesn't seem as appealing as some people make out.
That’s a magnificent magnum opus in my book @Maskell1982 so welcome aboard. I have a fairly feeble handle on these matters (as apparently a majority of Derby County fans do). But your detailed post brings home the full complexity and magnitude of the situation with which potential investors are confronted.
Tiny gripe (allegedly typical of me, I’m afraid) - para 6, “……there are various smaller creditors….” and “Secvo/Sevco (?) are owed £8,173,898.”
Hey @Maskell1982 thank you for that (staggering) and rather in depth appraisal of the goings on at Derby.
I still find it a real shame that despite the figures being in the public domain for all to see the Derby fans (and in all fairness the Derby local media outlets) still paint Morris as a dignified man who just made a mistake in getting them so close to the promised land. Whilst at the same time picking out (in order of hate) Middlesbrough, The EFL and Wycombe as the villains of the piece.
It is pretty clear for most to see that the EFL is not qualified to identify systematic and deliberate avoidance of financial fair play rules.