Either our claim is spurious and any wannabe owner would get legal advice telling him that and not be worried about taking on our claim after buying them.
Or our claim has merit and could be successful, and therefore why shouldn't we claim?
@Wycombe85 said: @Raminpeace Firstly, I like pretty much all other supporters very much hope Derby pull through this. This to me is far more important than our claim against Derby, however justified.
As many have posted above, we absolutely do know what you're going through, as it's not long ago we were right on the brink and it's taken a quite extraordinary effort both on and off the field from fans, management and players to be where we are now. We also had an owner who was over spending and had plans way beyond what was reasonable for our club. Many Wycombe fans were aware that we were heading towards financial oblivion and took to the streets both in the town centre and outside the stadium to protest. Eventually we were successful in removing our owner and having the fans take over and save the club. It was a very painful time for the club however.
Reading comments on social media from Derby fans, I do wonder if some realise the gravity of the situation Derby finds themselves in? There seems in incredible reluctance to accept that players may well need to be sold and yes very probably sold on the cheap. This is about survival now, not staying in the Championship. Blaming Wycombe and Middlesbrough is just so far wide of the mark. Derby fans really should be asking the Administrators some awkward questions about what on earth they are doing, because at the moment, they are coming across as quite shambolic. They ought to be doing everything in their power to ensure Derby's survival and attract a buyer, but at the moment they just seem to be sitting on their hands hoping claimants will just go away, which clearly isn't going to happen.
As for the claim itself, as others have said, however incompetent the EFL have been it's Derby who have profited from staying in the Championship. Claiming again the EFL wouldn't make any sense, would it? It seems that Mel Morris deliberately filed their accounts late to deliberately stave of the points deduction and subsequent relegation. If that is the case (and reports suggest Morris has admitted this) then Wycombe have every right to be aggrieved.
I hope everything does get resolved to everybody's satisfaction and most importantly I hope Derby survive. I do think some Derby fans would do well to have a period of introspection however. They have every right to be angry, but that needs to be directed at the correct people. Rob Couhig, Steve Gibson, Wycombe and Boro are not the right targets!
Excellent post. It seems crazy that the campaign to stop WWFC being diddled out of Adams Park and being moved in as tenants to the abortive complex at the airfield is over ten years ago. That, and all the trials and tribulations WWT has been through since then trying to salvage the club from the wreckage of the Hayes years are still fresh in my mind, even if they are now in the comparatively distant past.
What I gather from Derby fans who are vocal on twitter is that there seems to have been an unwillingness to question what Morris's end game was while he was racking up such eye-watering debts, and openly playing fast and loose with FFT regulations.
History has taught football supporters to be extremely wary of anyone who seeks to part your club from its ground (especially if it's to finance high levels of losses for a short period of time), nevermind those who seek to rub rulebreaking in everyone's faces. Yet the overriding impression from Derby fans is that they didn't see this whole sorry mess coming, and that they were right to trust Morris.
I also hope Derby survive as a club, though this has to be a wake-up call to not just Derby fans but fans of every other Championship club to be much more pro-active in holding their owners to account, and be wary of strangers coming in promising promotion to the Premier League.
The EFL in future surely have to be a lot stricter on member clubs finances (especially in the Championship) and take a leaf out of the German football league's nook that has the power to kick clubs out of the professional leagues if they can't prove they have the finances in place to complete a season, or present falsified accounts. The likes of Mel Morris using transfermarkt.de to value players for amortisation would have been kicked out before you could say "Tschüss". If the cost of breaking the rules is more than just a comparative slap on the wrists i.e. refusal of promotion to the Premier League, multiple relegations then some semblance of sanity might just creep back into football finances.
I also feel uneasy about the action but Rob C is a fair man. I am sure that if the DC administrators were to sit down with him to discuss the situation, that he (Rob), would be reasonable regarding a possible resolution.
No doubt at all that Morris and Derby behaved very badly. But two wrongs don't make a right and personally I think we are acting badly and immorally here. I am uncomfortable with that.
The real question is would Mel Morris get planning permission to build on Pride Park?
@DevC, as above, we only become a footballing debt and therefore payable in full IF the claim is accepted and the EFL rule it as a footballing debt.
If it's so clear we have no legitimate claim then any potential buyer can just ignore it.
Since, thus far, the Administrator hasn't dismissed the claim suggests he at least believes it has merit.
The EFL won't make their call because they want to sit on the fence and not be seen to pre judge the claim by declaring it a footballing debt. After all that would amount to admitting they f**ked up last season by not applying the points deduction.
It's a shit show for sure, but not one of our making.
@ReadingMarginalista I think you've summed up nicely the difference not just between Wycombe and Derby fans when faced with overspending owners, but perhaps a difference between smaller clubs and bigger clubs. In the lower divisions, where we've seen several clubs go under and many are continually living on the edge of oblivion, we're perhaps much more aware of the dangers of over spending. At the Premier/Championship level, fans just seem oblivious to it all. I appreciate that many Wycombe fans wouldn't have been interested in the financial problems, or maybe even turned a blind eye to it, but to see old posts from Derby fans celebrating Morris's overspending just seems bizarre. Were they really not aware of the potential consequences of what was happening?
Whilst I genuinely do have huge sympathy for the fans, they are not completely innocent in all this. Questions should have been asked at the time, rather than looking back now saying "how did it come to this"!
Some sobering reminders of our bleak recent history here this afternoon. The fact that a number of our supporters stood up to Hayes and opposed the Stade de Shark is a thing of pride. Very few Derby supporters gave a toss what Morris was up to until the cash ran out.
Would be wonderful if a few of their rather entitled supporters took a look @Username’s superb post. But they won’t, as the history of clubs like ours are regarded as an irrelevance.
I’ve just had the joy of a work call where some bloke who didn’t realise I was a WWFC supporter started gobbing off about our PPG ‘swindle’ that ‘The Mail has exposed today’. I didn’t let it go. It went uncomfortably quiet for a minute or two after that.
I’ve just had the joy of a work call where some bloke who didn’t realise I was a WWFC supporter started gobbing off about our PPG ‘swindle’ that ‘The Mail has exposed today’. I didn’t let it go. It went uncomfortably quiet for a minute or two after that.
Good stuff @arnos_grove, quite right too and a thumbs up from me for that!
@arnos_grove said:
Some sobering reminders of our bleak recent history here this afternoon. The fact that a number of our supporters stood up to Hayes and opposed the Stade de Shark is a thing of pride. Very few Derby supporters gave a toss what Morris was up to until the cash ran out.
Would be wonderful if a few of their rather entitled supporters took a look @Username’s superb post. But they won’t, as the history of clubs like ours are regarded as an irrelevance.
I’ve just had the joy of a work call where some bloke who didn’t realise I was a WWFC supporter started gobbing off about our PPG ‘swindle’ that ‘The Mail has exposed today’. I didn’t let it go. It went uncomfortably quiet for a minute or two after that.
There were a handful of people who called out Hayes and this was at the expense of personal abuse. A horrid time that when those who tried to oppose were vilified and swamped by a board led propaganda campaign that to this day makes me cringe. I’m pretty proud that I was one of a handful that said no even when we had a gun to our heads.
Would have been all to easy to whoop and cheer and think what a fun ride this is going to be. A position the majority of Derby fans find themselves in now.
I’m sure that no one wants Derby to go out of business but it is a mater of record that WW have been financially, morally and physically wronged by the owners of County’s misdemeanours. That, as a business owner, and an American one at that, Rob is justifiably seeking recompense for.
As relevant aside’s. American sport is first and foremost a business, America is a litigious society, sports teams come and go - the sense of longevity, fabric of society, community / club is not the same. As a result the depth of feeling that M Derby and amongst the 72 may mot be fully registered. These factors may go some way to colouring our continued pursuit of compensation.
That said ‘away’ support at games is also not really a thing in American sport, the ramifications of Derby as well as Posh, Sunderland et al visiting AP next season and Wanderers being tarred with the aggressors brush might not be being factored into the ‘opportunity cost’ of our action - policing, replacement seats, good will etc etc.
@perfidious_albion said:
I’m sure that no one wants Derby to go out of business but it is a mater of record that WW have been financially, morally and physically wronged by the owners of County’s misdemeanours. That, as a business owner, and an American one at that, Rob is justifiably seeking recompense for.
As relevant aside’s. American sport is first and foremost a business, America is a litigious society, sports teams come and go - the sense of longevity, fabric of society, community / club is not the same. As a result the depth of feeling that M Derby and amongst the 72 may mot be fully registered. These factors may go some way to colouring our continued pursuit of compensation.
That said ‘away’ support at games is also not really a thing in American sport, the ramifications of Derby as well as Posh, Sunderland et al visiting AP next season and Wanderers being tarred with the aggressors brush might not be being factored into the ‘opportunity cost’ of our action - policing, replacement seats, good will etc etc.
Most neutral supporters don’t give a toss about Derby and our dispute as for seats Oxford lost and they broke them Portsmouth won and they broke them.
No doubt at all that Morris and Derby behaved very badly. But two wrongs don't make a right and personally I think we are acting badly and immorally here. I am uncomfortable with that.
The real question is would Mel Morris get planning permission to build on Pride Park?
As I have said previously, I am sure none of want to see DCFC go the way of Bury or Macclesfield or Maidstone.
Having said that they systematically pushed and broke the rules around profitability and sustainability under the aegis of Mel Morris; to an extent assisted by the EFL failing to enforce their rules promptly and unequivocally (I am sure the other 71 clubs will be discussing this with the EFL and looking to tighten things up going forward). There is no mitigation for these infractions, which ultimately DCFC admitted & accepted the punishment meted out.
However, these actions directly impacted us & Middlesborough and led to us missing out on somewhere in the region of £6-8m in guaranteed income (TV money & solidarity payments), it is reasonable therefore for us to seek to recover this money from DCFC. In order to do this we have filed a claim in the administration, the administrator needs to first of all decide if they accept the claim or not (if they don't I suspect it may then proceed to a court case) ; if they do then the EFL have to decide if it is a football or non-football debt. Sadly for all parties time is running out as the administrators need to show that they have enough money to fund the remainder of the season by 1st Feb or they will be thrown out of the Championship and rapidly sink into Liquidation.
It is interesting to note that the Binnie family (the US family behind Carlisle Capital) are reported to have tabled a bid of £28m; this doesn't cover the currently acknowledged debts (HMRC c£26m, football creditors c£8m, non football creditors c£6m at full value) far less the amounts claimed by MFC & WWFC, so would result in an additional immediate 15 point penalty. If this is what a well respected US investment house values them at then there really is little hope for DCFC in avoiding relegation to L1 or lower...
@DevC said,
"However I struggle to see that we (or Middlesboro) would win any legal action against Derby County nor have we, as I understand it, commenced one".
By very definition then, if we or Borough won't win, then nothing stopping any takeover to go through is there, surely our claims are not the stumbling block?
It would appear clear to me that there is a fear of some merit in the claims as the potential buyers won't move forward. Maybe a simple view, but I believe there is some fire under that smoke.
I really don't want Derby to be liquidated, if it were my club I'd be devastated.
I know, so far, many people think we have attracted negative attention. But what happens if a potential buyer comes in who accepts our claim and negotiates a settlement? So far everyone who voices an opinion wants to stand behind Derby - because, let's face it, that's the "safe" place to be (moral high ground, play to the popularist view, nothing to lose as they just disappear if we win, can say at least we backed Derby if they liquidate).
I think we have a good case and RC appears to be, if nothing else, a pragmatist. So if he didn't think (a) we'd win I'm and (b) it's worth the risk then I'm sure he'd withdraw the claim.
The publicity, in my view, is therefore a good thing and I actually hope we can get our message out to a wider cross section.
I’ve finally found chunks of the Mel Morris BBC Derby interview from September. I think this is the part that got Rob’s back up. When asked about the FFP breaches, this is what Mel said:
“They go into three year periods so it’s not quite as simple as looking at one year in isolation. So I think that from memory, I think the breach for the 17/18 season would have been about £4m, which would have been something like a 4 point deduction, or something like that. The discussion that has been on going, what you don’t want to do is end up in a scenario where you end up being punished twice for the same thing so we’ve been trying to discuss with the EFL, openly with them; so far it’s been constructive if frustrating, to bring a finality of all of those things so that the club can move on without having to look over its shoulder.”
Mel feared being relegated to L1 and then starting the new campaign on minus points, which is essentially what I believe he is referring to when he talks about being punished twice. Unless anybody else has a different interpretation to what he said?
Hi @Raminpeace, it's good of you to come and talk calmly and politely. I will try to do the same.
You said:
"The resubmitted accounts saw us exceed FFP limits and we got another 9 points deducted to add to the 12 for going into Administration. -21 and still not bottom. Not bad. So, the reason we didn't go down last season was more the EFL than us."
I'm sorry, but still don't think you get it. If your Administrators were doing their job properly, right now, Derby County would be selling the curtains, carpets, crockery, anything that is not nailed down and every player contract that is worth anything, in an attempt to cut costs to the absolute minimum and raise as much money as possible, regardless of the impact on results and league position. That is not happening.
I have no desire to see any football club fold, but I do back Wycombes' claim against Derby County. The fault for Derby County not being relegated last year lies with Derby County. The EFL could not apply the points deduction until the accounts were filed. Derby County delayed filing those accounts until after the present season had started.
That ensured the Derby picked up the Championship solidarity payment and TV money.
It is worth noting that 2-3 years ago Wycombe being denied that income would have killed our club. Would anyone in Derby have cared?
Interesting sidebar to all of this - Derby were probably saved from oblivion by Cardiff...twice! Cardiff sent us down (in all but mathematical certainty), but more directly, they equalized in the last minute against a dominant Rotherham side who should have won and made everything else academic. If Rotherham had won, Derby would currently be -21 points in L1 with no buyers in sight, staring liquidation in the face with much more certainty.
I know we have a case and as I have said before, I think Rob is a very genuine guy who would happily negotiate the position but I really don’t want Derby to go bust.
I appreciate Derby have broken the rules but the club is for the community and it is the community that will suffer if they go out of business.
I remember Bristol Rovers going after us when they got relegated and we had no money at all. We were all fearing the worst if they dragged us through a legal challenge that would cost a fortune at a time when we couldn’t afford it.
So although I know Rob, on behalf of our great club, is within his rights to pursue this action but I would personally prefer that we stepped back and withdrew our claim.
Excellent post @bluenotes. And plenty more like it, If only Martin Samuel had visited this thread and followed the discussion over the past couple of weeks before he wrote his article, he might have thought twice before impugning Wycombe in the crass way he did.
@Blue_since_1990 said:
I know we have a case and as I have said before, I think Rob is a very genuine guy who would happily negotiate the position but I really don’t want Derby to go bust.
I appreciate Derby have broken the rules but the club is for the community and it is the community that will suffer if they go out of business.
I remember Bristol Rovers going after us when they got relegated and we had no money at all. We were all fearing the worst if they dragged us through a legal challenge that would cost a fortune at a time when we couldn’t afford it.
So although I know Rob, on behalf of our great club, is within his rights to pursue this action but I would personally prefer that we stepped back and withdrew our claim.
I do agree with all that, but I've changed a bit from the beginning of the week, I don't see why we have to drop it totally if our claim is found fair. I can't see why we can't say to Derby, we know your in trouble now so we'll hold of until you are in a better place and back on your feet, then if it's agreed we are owed money we'll do a deal then
Thanks to Martin Samuel, I (and many other Wycombe fans with friends who read the Mail) face the onerous task of attempting to explain the highly complex background to the present impasse.
@micra said:
Excellent post @bluenotes. And plenty more like it, If only Martin Samuel had visited this thread and followed the discussion over the past couple of weeks before he wrote his article, he might have thought twice before impugning Wycombe in the crass way he did.
He probably only visited the thread on the Derby site before writing his article.
Comments
Either our claim is spurious and any wannabe owner would get legal advice telling him that and not be worried about taking on our claim after buying them.
Or our claim has merit and could be successful, and therefore why shouldn't we claim?
It can't be both.
Excellent post. It seems crazy that the campaign to stop WWFC being diddled out of Adams Park and being moved in as tenants to the abortive complex at the airfield is over ten years ago. That, and all the trials and tribulations WWT has been through since then trying to salvage the club from the wreckage of the Hayes years are still fresh in my mind, even if they are now in the comparatively distant past.
What I gather from Derby fans who are vocal on twitter is that there seems to have been an unwillingness to question what Morris's end game was while he was racking up such eye-watering debts, and openly playing fast and loose with FFT regulations.
History has taught football supporters to be extremely wary of anyone who seeks to part your club from its ground (especially if it's to finance high levels of losses for a short period of time), nevermind those who seek to rub rulebreaking in everyone's faces. Yet the overriding impression from Derby fans is that they didn't see this whole sorry mess coming, and that they were right to trust Morris.
I also hope Derby survive as a club, though this has to be a wake-up call to not just Derby fans but fans of every other Championship club to be much more pro-active in holding their owners to account, and be wary of strangers coming in promising promotion to the Premier League.
The EFL in future surely have to be a lot stricter on member clubs finances (especially in the Championship) and take a leaf out of the German football league's nook that has the power to kick clubs out of the professional leagues if they can't prove they have the finances in place to complete a season, or present falsified accounts. The likes of Mel Morris using transfermarkt.de to value players for amortisation would have been kicked out before you could say "Tschüss". If the cost of breaking the rules is more than just a comparative slap on the wrists i.e. refusal of promotion to the Premier League, multiple relegations then some semblance of sanity might just creep back into football finances.
I also feel uneasy about the action but Rob C is a fair man. I am sure that if the DC administrators were to sit down with him to discuss the situation, that he (Rob), would be reasonable regarding a possible resolution.
The real question is would Mel Morris get planning permission to build on Pride Park?
@DevC, as above, we only become a footballing debt and therefore payable in full IF the claim is accepted and the EFL rule it as a footballing debt.
If it's so clear we have no legitimate claim then any potential buyer can just ignore it.
Since, thus far, the Administrator hasn't dismissed the claim suggests he at least believes it has merit.
The EFL won't make their call because they want to sit on the fence and not be seen to pre judge the claim by declaring it a footballing debt. After all that would amount to admitting they f**ked up last season by not applying the points deduction.
It's a shit show for sure, but not one of our making.
@ReadingMarginalista I think you've summed up nicely the difference not just between Wycombe and Derby fans when faced with overspending owners, but perhaps a difference between smaller clubs and bigger clubs. In the lower divisions, where we've seen several clubs go under and many are continually living on the edge of oblivion, we're perhaps much more aware of the dangers of over spending. At the Premier/Championship level, fans just seem oblivious to it all. I appreciate that many Wycombe fans wouldn't have been interested in the financial problems, or maybe even turned a blind eye to it, but to see old posts from Derby fans celebrating Morris's overspending just seems bizarre. Were they really not aware of the potential consequences of what was happening?
Whilst I genuinely do have huge sympathy for the fans, they are not completely innocent in all this. Questions should have been asked at the time, rather than looking back now saying "how did it come to this"!
Some sobering reminders of our bleak recent history here this afternoon. The fact that a number of our supporters stood up to Hayes and opposed the Stade de Shark is a thing of pride. Very few Derby supporters gave a toss what Morris was up to until the cash ran out.
Would be wonderful if a few of their rather entitled supporters took a look @Username’s superb post. But they won’t, as the history of clubs like ours are regarded as an irrelevance.
I’ve just had the joy of a work call where some bloke who didn’t realise I was a WWFC supporter started gobbing off about our PPG ‘swindle’ that ‘The Mail has exposed today’. I didn’t let it go. It went uncomfortably quiet for a minute or two after that.
Good stuff @arnos_grove, quite right too and a thumbs up from me for that!
There were a handful of people who called out Hayes and this was at the expense of personal abuse. A horrid time that when those who tried to oppose were vilified and swamped by a board led propaganda campaign that to this day makes me cringe. I’m pretty proud that I was one of a handful that said no even when we had a gun to our heads.
Would have been all to easy to whoop and cheer and think what a fun ride this is going to be. A position the majority of Derby fans find themselves in now.
I’m sure that no one wants Derby to go out of business but it is a mater of record that WW have been financially, morally and physically wronged by the owners of County’s misdemeanours. That, as a business owner, and an American one at that, Rob is justifiably seeking recompense for.
As relevant aside’s. American sport is first and foremost a business, America is a litigious society, sports teams come and go - the sense of longevity, fabric of society, community / club is not the same. As a result the depth of feeling that M Derby and amongst the 72 may mot be fully registered. These factors may go some way to colouring our continued pursuit of compensation.
That said ‘away’ support at games is also not really a thing in American sport, the ramifications of Derby as well as Posh, Sunderland et al visiting AP next season and Wanderers being tarred with the aggressors brush might not be being factored into the ‘opportunity cost’ of our action - policing, replacement seats, good will etc etc.
Most neutral supporters don’t give a toss about Derby and our dispute as for seats Oxford lost and they broke them Portsmouth won and they broke them.
We might all regret you asking that question!
Gary Neville has now chipped in with his view.
As I have said previously, I am sure none of want to see DCFC go the way of Bury or Macclesfield or Maidstone.
Having said that they systematically pushed and broke the rules around profitability and sustainability under the aegis of Mel Morris; to an extent assisted by the EFL failing to enforce their rules promptly and unequivocally (I am sure the other 71 clubs will be discussing this with the EFL and looking to tighten things up going forward). There is no mitigation for these infractions, which ultimately DCFC admitted & accepted the punishment meted out.
However, these actions directly impacted us & Middlesborough and led to us missing out on somewhere in the region of £6-8m in guaranteed income (TV money & solidarity payments), it is reasonable therefore for us to seek to recover this money from DCFC. In order to do this we have filed a claim in the administration, the administrator needs to first of all decide if they accept the claim or not (if they don't I suspect it may then proceed to a court case) ; if they do then the EFL have to decide if it is a football or non-football debt. Sadly for all parties time is running out as the administrators need to show that they have enough money to fund the remainder of the season by 1st Feb or they will be thrown out of the Championship and rapidly sink into Liquidation.
It is interesting to note that the Binnie family (the US family behind Carlisle Capital) are reported to have tabled a bid of £28m; this doesn't cover the currently acknowledged debts (HMRC c£26m, football creditors c£8m, non football creditors c£6m at full value) far less the amounts claimed by MFC & WWFC, so would result in an additional immediate 15 point penalty. If this is what a well respected US investment house values them at then there really is little hope for DCFC in avoiding relegation to L1 or lower...
Did G Nev just say we should back down for the good of the "football family".
Just ignore that Derby and the EFL stitched us up here and walk away?
Even if we did ‘walk away,’ it would make very little real difference to Derby’s plight.
I don’t remember Garys football is a family speech when Derby fucked us over in order to stay in the championship.
@DevC said,
"However I struggle to see that we (or Middlesboro) would win any legal action against Derby County nor have we, as I understand it, commenced one".
By very definition then, if we or Borough won't win, then nothing stopping any takeover to go through is there, surely our claims are not the stumbling block?
It would appear clear to me that there is a fear of some merit in the claims as the potential buyers won't move forward. Maybe a simple view, but I believe there is some fire under that smoke.
I can’t stand Gary Neville. Sorry. That’s the post.
I really don't want Derby to be liquidated, if it were my club I'd be devastated.
I know, so far, many people think we have attracted negative attention. But what happens if a potential buyer comes in who accepts our claim and negotiates a settlement? So far everyone who voices an opinion wants to stand behind Derby - because, let's face it, that's the "safe" place to be (moral high ground, play to the popularist view, nothing to lose as they just disappear if we win, can say at least we backed Derby if they liquidate).
I think we have a good case and RC appears to be, if nothing else, a pragmatist. So if he didn't think (a) we'd win I'm and (b) it's worth the risk then I'm sure he'd withdraw the claim.
The publicity, in my view, is therefore a good thing and I actually hope we can get our message out to a wider cross section.
Can't speak for him as a person but I've always considered him a good pundit/knowledgeable commentator.
I’ve finally found chunks of the Mel Morris BBC Derby interview from September. I think this is the part that got Rob’s back up. When asked about the FFP breaches, this is what Mel said:
“They go into three year periods so it’s not quite as simple as looking at one year in isolation. So I think that from memory, I think the breach for the 17/18 season would have been about £4m, which would have been something like a 4 point deduction, or something like that. The discussion that has been on going, what you don’t want to do is end up in a scenario where you end up being punished twice for the same thing so we’ve been trying to discuss with the EFL, openly with them; so far it’s been constructive if frustrating, to bring a finality of all of those things so that the club can move on without having to look over its shoulder.”
Mel feared being relegated to L1 and then starting the new campaign on minus points, which is essentially what I believe he is referring to when he talks about being punished twice. Unless anybody else has a different interpretation to what he said?
Hi @Raminpeace, it's good of you to come and talk calmly and politely. I will try to do the same.
You said:
"The resubmitted accounts saw us exceed FFP limits and we got another 9 points deducted to add to the 12 for going into Administration. -21 and still not bottom. Not bad. So, the reason we didn't go down last season was more the EFL than us."
I'm sorry, but still don't think you get it. If your Administrators were doing their job properly, right now, Derby County would be selling the curtains, carpets, crockery, anything that is not nailed down and every player contract that is worth anything, in an attempt to cut costs to the absolute minimum and raise as much money as possible, regardless of the impact on results and league position. That is not happening.
I have no desire to see any football club fold, but I do back Wycombes' claim against Derby County. The fault for Derby County not being relegated last year lies with Derby County. The EFL could not apply the points deduction until the accounts were filed. Derby County delayed filing those accounts until after the present season had started.
That ensured the Derby picked up the Championship solidarity payment and TV money.
It is worth noting that 2-3 years ago Wycombe being denied that income would have killed our club. Would anyone in Derby have cared?
Interesting sidebar to all of this - Derby were probably saved from oblivion by Cardiff...twice! Cardiff sent us down (in all but mathematical certainty), but more directly, they equalized in the last minute against a dominant Rotherham side who should have won and made everything else academic. If Rotherham had won, Derby would currently be -21 points in L1 with no buyers in sight, staring liquidation in the face with much more certainty.
Derby owe Cardiff a thank you!
I know we have a case and as I have said before, I think Rob is a very genuine guy who would happily negotiate the position but I really don’t want Derby to go bust.
I appreciate Derby have broken the rules but the club is for the community and it is the community that will suffer if they go out of business.
I remember Bristol Rovers going after us when they got relegated and we had no money at all. We were all fearing the worst if they dragged us through a legal challenge that would cost a fortune at a time when we couldn’t afford it.
So although I know Rob, on behalf of our great club, is within his rights to pursue this action but I would personally prefer that we stepped back and withdrew our claim.
Excellent post @bluenotes. And plenty more like it, If only Martin Samuel had visited this thread and followed the discussion over the past couple of weeks before he wrote his article, he might have thought twice before impugning Wycombe in the crass way he did.
I do agree with all that, but I've changed a bit from the beginning of the week, I don't see why we have to drop it totally if our claim is found fair. I can't see why we can't say to Derby, we know your in trouble now so we'll hold of until you are in a better place and back on your feet, then if it's agreed we are owed money we'll do a deal then
Thanks to Martin Samuel, I (and many other Wycombe fans with friends who read the Mail) face the onerous task of attempting to explain the highly complex background to the present impasse.
He probably only visited the thread on the Derby site before writing his article.