I hope this explains my position a little more clearly. I can fully sympathize with those that feel it's unseemly to be involved in digging dirt. To be honest I'm not entirely comfortable but I just want to keep the conversation going and perhaps show everyone connected with WWFC that we care. If coming out of my comfort zone to try and help at a crucial time is all I need to do, then that's what I've done. The sort of thing Derby are accused of is so big that it has to be stopped in it's tracks and the consequential damage done to other clubs somehow redressed. To quote @MindlessDrugHoover, "Don't see why they should benefit from another year of Championship money when they've lied and cheated to such a degree".
Perhaps a new Tee Shirt or Scarf with "WWFC - We Never Give Up!" would be one for the future.
The tabloids have made an absolute meal out of a few pretty uncontroversial quotes. Nevertheless, I agree with many here that it would be best to say nothing and just quietly monitor the situation. This is up to the EFL to sort out and we really shouldn't be involved.
Personally if Derby are found guilty of wrongdoing then they should of course be punished and keeping in mind Sheff Weds points deductions, it doesn't make sense for any points penalty to be incurred next season. We should not be seen to be pushing for this though, as it will clearly show the club in a bad light.
Have to say though, I'm really looking forward to seeing this team have a crack at League 1 next season! Every chance we'd be competing near the top.
Much as I would be p1ssed off to see Derby 'get away with it' if I was a SW fan I would be double p1ssed off in a clear case of favouritism that simply cannot be explained away.
There's a lot of talk in local papers and on social media of Derby going to get what they deserve. Sad of such an iconic club.
I don't see anybody saying that Derby should get away with it. The question is whether our owner should be talking about it in public. In my view not. As I said on Saturday, it was particularly poor that that was the first thing in his post-match interview on Saturday and the headlines we're seeing now, which make us look like sore losers who want to win through non-football means, were entirely predictable.
Agree that the tabloids are just trying to spin some vanilla quotes into clickbait bullshit (I’ll try and contain my surprise at the journalistic integrity on show).
Also agree with those saying we should not touch this with a bargepole in terms of getting directly involved in the discussion - it’s between the EFL and Derby.
Like it or not, we were relegated on merit and us pushing directly for any other outcome smacks of chicanery. Shithousery on the pitch I can take to a point, off the pitch then no thanks.
The Derby issue has been in the background for a while, some action must be due, hence the reason Rob wanted us to be in the best position to benefit. Rob clearly knows something that we don't.
Punishments should either be applied prospectively or known about in advance, the 12 point deduction for going into administration being an example of the latter. If we were to benefit from something that's one thing. But we absolutely shouldn't be seen publicly machinating for it. I can't see how this is different in a relevant way from what Bristol Rovers tried to do to us.
@PBo said:
Agree that the tabloids are just trying to spin some vanilla quotes into clickbait bullshit (I’ll try and contain my surprise at the journalistic integrity on show).
It takes a remarkable level of blinkeredness to read direct quotes from both the club chairman and the club spokesman saying that we are exploring legal avenues and somehow be left with the impression that the tabloids are manufacturing a story. That's just not the way it works.
From what I can make out from the quotes, Rob Couhig is just wanting to keep on top of the situation. This is absolutely the correct thing to do, as any penalties (certainly in terms of points) directly affects us and our plans for next season. My strong view on this however is that is should be done quietly in the background and in no way should we be 'pushing' for Derby to be punished. Other than monitoring what's going on, this has nothing to do with us.
I have just survived a work call with three DCFC season ticket holders. I’m glad I’m still working from home!
Don’t like this at all, but it’s been dreadfully handled by the EFL and I agree we should keep out of it.
That said if you actually read the quotes in The Athletic, we are not threatening DCFC or the EFL with legal action; simply trying to get clarity over a long running saga that ‘could’ affect us. This should have been settled ages ago.
Isn’t this different because Derby have actually broken some rules, whereas Bristol Rovers accusations against us were the result of a post relegation fever dream.
It’s dreadful that the EFL are taking so long over it tho. The league table, deductions and all, should be sorted by 5pm on the last day of the season.
@PBo said:
Agree that the tabloids are just trying to spin some vanilla quotes into clickbait bullshit (I’ll try and contain my surprise at the journalistic integrity on show).
It takes a remarkable level of blinkeredness to read direct quotes from both the club chairman and the club spokesman saying that we are exploring legal avenues and somehow be left with the impression that the tabloids are manufacturing a story. That's just not the way it works.
Spinning stuff in to more than it is, pitting parties against eachother based on thin quotes that don't really mean what they are alleged to have, manufacturing outrage...This is exactly how it works.
@OakwoodExile said:
Punishments should either be applied prospectively or known about in advance, the 12 point deduction for going into administration being an example of the latter. If we were to benefit from something that's one thing. But we absolutely shouldn't be seen publicly machinating for it. I can't see how this is different in a relevant way from what Bristol Rovers tried to do to us.
I don't think Couhig's post-match comments were litigious and outright sour grapes in the way those coming from the horse punchers were after Colin Daniel Day, though they were still ill-judged if he had the aim of furthering his financial interests in WWFC by Derby County being relegated courtesy of a points deduction this season for their FFP breach last season.
‘We’re probably going to get advice, whether it’s from a QC, or whether it’s from people in the EFL, as to exactly what the status is and what the possible ramifications are’.
Working that quote up into ‘Wycombe consider legal action to relegate Derby’ (The Sun) is quite a stretch in my view. But I guess not, if you already hold a rather jaundiced view of Rob Couhig.
If both offences took place in the same season and came to light at the same time and Derby by delaying tactics have avoided a sanction that Wednesday had applied this season then fairness might seem to be that said sanction is applied to Derby in the same season as Wednesday - or Wednesday’s is applied next season along with Derby. Although it would set a dangerous precedent - “don’t sanction us this year in case someone else is found guilt later”.
The latter sends Derby down this season and Wednesday survive. The former sends Derby down and we survive the drop.
That said, you apply a punishment after a conviction. I assume the EFL has rules on when sanctions are applied in relation to an offence having been committed and/or convicted. I hope we leave it to the EFL to apply their rules correctly under their existing laws and only if they fail to do so might we take our action. I understand why we might want a professional eye on proceedings, it seems we have that and no more need be said in public by the club.
I don't know how many of you have experience of media relations but, without wishing to be too patronising, in almost every case a bland, on-the-record comment is provided to give cover to the far less innocuous off-the-record briefing that accompanies it. This allows the journalist to use a direct, authorised quote in copy while alluding to the real story that lies hidden behind it. That, @arnos_grove@StrongestTeam@PBo , is how it works.
@Manboobs said:
If both offences took place in the same season and came to light at the same time and Derby by delaying tactics have avoided a sanction that Wednesday had applied this season then fairness might seem to be that said sanction is applied to Derby in the same season as Wednesday - or Wednesday’s is applied next season along with Derby. Although it would set a dangerous precedent - “don’t sanction us this year in case someone else is found guilt later”.
The latter sends Derby down this season and Wednesday survive. The former sends Derby down and we survive the drop.
That said, you apply a punishment after a conviction. I assume the EFL has rules on when sanctions are applied in relation to an offence having been committed and/or convicted. I hope we leave it to the EFL to apply their rules correctly under their existing laws and only if they fail to do so might we take our action. I understand why we might want a professional eye on proceedings, it seems we have that and no more need be said in public by the club.
Let's face it big club with big names get better treatment and kinder sanctions. Wednesday were an easy target and their owner put his hands up and took it. Derby are in the middle of several take overs and will fight tooth and nail to stay up as the consequence is cash in the pocket of the current owner being impacted. Rarely do the EFL do the right or fair thing.
Working that quote up into ‘Wycombe consider legal action to relegate Derby’ (The Sun) is quite a stretch in my view. But I guess not, if you already hold a rather jaundiced view of Rob Couhig.
American culture is that if someone farts in a lift, the other six riders in the lift will each look to sue. It doesn't really transfer well to our culture and the comment makes us look a bit silly IMHO. Let the EFL procedures run their course and see where they end up. Have to say I see it as 99%+ likely that we will kick off in Lg1 next season.
@davecz said:
Sorry but I feel uncomfortable with Rob Couhig's comments. Let the EFL sort it out. We have a good reputation as a club punching well above our weight and have earned an enormous amount of goodwill on how we have performed against incredible odds. With Couhig's actions we are in danger of losing all this goodwill. At the end of the day we didn't get enough points.
“With Couhig’s actions” is as much a misrepresentation of fact as the wording of some of the newspaper headlines. One of them (presumably not the one quoted by @arnos_grove above) actually referred to Wycombe threatening legal action.
@arnos_grove said:
‘We’re probably going to get advice, whether it’s from a QC, or whether it’s from people in the EFL, as to exactly what the status is and what the possible ramifications are’.
Totally agree that Couhig is asking for clarification rather than action against Derby. This needs to be resolved quickly or it could lead to problems with retaining and recruiting for next season. We don't deserve that.
Not confident that the Football League will resolve it quickly having taken so long and with appeals from Derby. One thing I am sure of is we won't be replacing 'Wayne Rooney's Derby' next season. We just need to get the future sorted as soon as possible.
Would it bother me if we stayed in the Championship based on this? If Derby have cheated then I'd be delighted to see them punished and our heroic squad getting another go.
@aloysius said:
I don't know how many of you have experience of media relations but, > @DevC said:
American culture is that if someone farts in a lift, the other six riders in the lift will each look to sue. It doesn't really transfer well to our culture and the comment makes us look a bit silly IMHO. Let the EFL procedures run their course and see where they end up. Have to say I see it as 99%+ likely that we will kick off in Lg1 next season.
"I don’t know that the season is over yet," Couhig is quoted as saying by The Mirror.
“To me, we have accumulated all the points we can and now we will see what happens.
“People tell me that Derby County has some issues out there.
We will start next season in league one but I don’t see very much that Rob has said that makes us look silly. or that isn’t factually correct
One thing I think we can all agree on is that the EFL should have got this sorted months ago.
I personally have no interest in surviving this way. It’s not what sport should be about, but this is the endgame of ludicrous levels of financial mismanagement.
Like others have said, i hope we stay out of this type of thing.
However just to point something out did the EFL set a set a precedent with this last year ? Macclesfield were retrospectively relegated after the season had ended, with Stevenage being reinstated
Working that quote up into ‘Wycombe consider legal action to relegate Derby’ (The Sun) is quite a stretch in my view. But I guess not, if you already hold a rather jaundiced view of Rob Couhig.
Comments
The more I read up on this, the more it stinks. We have every right to feel aggrieved.
I hope this explains my position a little more clearly. I can fully sympathize with those that feel it's unseemly to be involved in digging dirt. To be honest I'm not entirely comfortable but I just want to keep the conversation going and perhaps show everyone connected with WWFC that we care. If coming out of my comfort zone to try and help at a crucial time is all I need to do, then that's what I've done. The sort of thing Derby are accused of is so big that it has to be stopped in it's tracks and the consequential damage done to other clubs somehow redressed. To quote @MindlessDrugHoover, "Don't see why they should benefit from another year of Championship money when they've lied and cheated to such a degree".
Perhaps a new Tee Shirt or Scarf with "WWFC - We Never Give Up!" would be one for the future.
The tabloids have made an absolute meal out of a few pretty uncontroversial quotes. Nevertheless, I agree with many here that it would be best to say nothing and just quietly monitor the situation. This is up to the EFL to sort out and we really shouldn't be involved.
Personally if Derby are found guilty of wrongdoing then they should of course be punished and keeping in mind Sheff Weds points deductions, it doesn't make sense for any points penalty to be incurred next season. We should not be seen to be pushing for this though, as it will clearly show the club in a bad light.
Have to say though, I'm really looking forward to seeing this team have a crack at League 1 next season! Every chance we'd be competing near the top.
Much as I would be p1ssed off to see Derby 'get away with it' if I was a SW fan I would be double p1ssed off in a clear case of favouritism that simply cannot be explained away.
There's a lot of talk in local papers and on social media of Derby going to get what they deserve. Sad of such an iconic club.
HOWEVER....
ALAN SWAN WILL HAVE A VERY PUBLIC MELTDOWN
and that will be a joy
I don't see anybody saying that Derby should get away with it. The question is whether our owner should be talking about it in public. In my view not. As I said on Saturday, it was particularly poor that that was the first thing in his post-match interview on Saturday and the headlines we're seeing now, which make us look like sore losers who want to win through non-football means, were entirely predictable.
Agree that the tabloids are just trying to spin some vanilla quotes into clickbait bullshit (I’ll try and contain my surprise at the journalistic integrity on show).
Also agree with those saying we should not touch this with a bargepole in terms of getting directly involved in the discussion - it’s between the EFL and Derby.
Like it or not, we were relegated on merit and us pushing directly for any other outcome smacks of chicanery. Shithousery on the pitch I can take to a point, off the pitch then no thanks.
The Derby issue has been in the background for a while, some action must be due, hence the reason Rob wanted us to be in the best position to benefit. Rob clearly knows something that we don't.
Punishments should either be applied prospectively or known about in advance, the 12 point deduction for going into administration being an example of the latter. If we were to benefit from something that's one thing. But we absolutely shouldn't be seen publicly machinating for it. I can't see how this is different in a relevant way from what Bristol Rovers tried to do to us.
It takes a remarkable level of blinkeredness to read direct quotes from both the club chairman and the club spokesman saying that we are exploring legal avenues and somehow be left with the impression that the tabloids are manufacturing a story. That's just not the way it works.
As much as I don't really want to stay us through this the reaction from a certain journalist would be too good a chance to miss
From what I can make out from the quotes, Rob Couhig is just wanting to keep on top of the situation. This is absolutely the correct thing to do, as any penalties (certainly in terms of points) directly affects us and our plans for next season. My strong view on this however is that is should be done quietly in the background and in no way should we be 'pushing' for Derby to be punished. Other than monitoring what's going on, this has nothing to do with us.
I have just survived a work call with three DCFC season ticket holders. I’m glad I’m still working from home!
Don’t like this at all, but it’s been dreadfully handled by the EFL and I agree we should keep out of it.
That said if you actually read the quotes in The Athletic, we are not threatening DCFC or the EFL with legal action; simply trying to get clarity over a long running saga that ‘could’ affect us. This should have been settled ages ago.
I bet GA and Dobbo had their phones ready to start building for next season in League 1. And now this. Doesn't help anyone.
Isn’t this different because Derby have actually broken some rules, whereas Bristol Rovers accusations against us were the result of a post relegation fever dream.
It’s dreadful that the EFL are taking so long over it tho. The league table, deductions and all, should be sorted by 5pm on the last day of the season.
Spinning stuff in to more than it is, pitting parties against eachother based on thin quotes that don't really mean what they are alleged to have, manufacturing outrage...This is exactly how it works.
I don't think Couhig's post-match comments were litigious and outright sour grapes in the way those coming from the horse punchers were after Colin Daniel Day, though they were still ill-judged if he had the aim of furthering his financial interests in WWFC by Derby County being relegated courtesy of a points deduction this season for their FFP breach last season.
‘We’re probably going to get advice, whether it’s from a QC, or whether it’s from people in the EFL, as to exactly what the status is and what the possible ramifications are’.
Working that quote up into ‘Wycombe consider legal action to relegate Derby’ (The Sun) is quite a stretch in my view. But I guess not, if you already hold a rather jaundiced view of Rob Couhig.
If both offences took place in the same season and came to light at the same time and Derby by delaying tactics have avoided a sanction that Wednesday had applied this season then fairness might seem to be that said sanction is applied to Derby in the same season as Wednesday - or Wednesday’s is applied next season along with Derby. Although it would set a dangerous precedent - “don’t sanction us this year in case someone else is found guilt later”.
The latter sends Derby down this season and Wednesday survive. The former sends Derby down and we survive the drop.
That said, you apply a punishment after a conviction. I assume the EFL has rules on when sanctions are applied in relation to an offence having been committed and/or convicted. I hope we leave it to the EFL to apply their rules correctly under their existing laws and only if they fail to do so might we take our action. I understand why we might want a professional eye on proceedings, it seems we have that and no more need be said in public by the club.
I don't know how many of you have experience of media relations but, without wishing to be too patronising, in almost every case a bland, on-the-record comment is provided to give cover to the far less innocuous off-the-record briefing that accompanies it. This allows the journalist to use a direct, authorised quote in copy while alluding to the real story that lies hidden behind it. That, @arnos_grove @StrongestTeam @PBo , is how it works.
Let's face it big club with big names get better treatment and kinder sanctions. Wednesday were an easy target and their owner put his hands up and took it. Derby are in the middle of several take overs and will fight tooth and nail to stay up as the consequence is cash in the pocket of the current owner being impacted. Rarely do the EFL do the right or fair thing.
Why are we reading The Sun in the first place?
American culture is that if someone farts in a lift, the other six riders in the lift will each look to sue. It doesn't really transfer well to our culture and the comment makes us look a bit silly IMHO. Let the EFL procedures run their course and see where they end up. Have to say I see it as 99%+ likely that we will kick off in Lg1 next season.
“With Couhig’s actions” is as much a misrepresentation of fact as the wording of some of the newspaper headlines. One of them (presumably not the one quoted by @arnos_grove above) actually referred to Wycombe threatening legal action.
Am I missing something? I am seeing articles saying the EFL has WON it's appeal...
https://theathletic.com/news/derby-championship-efl-ffp-appeal/1qTsyqHxZtEa
Totally agree that Couhig is asking for clarification rather than action against Derby. This needs to be resolved quickly or it could lead to problems with retaining and recruiting for next season. We don't deserve that.
Not confident that the Football League will resolve it quickly having taken so long and with appeals from Derby. One thing I am sure of is we won't be replacing 'Wayne Rooney's Derby' next season. We just need to get the future sorted as soon as possible.
Would it bother me if we stayed in the Championship based on this? If Derby have cheated then I'd be delighted to see them punished and our heroic squad getting another go.
Our future (partially) being decided round a table for the second season in a row. You could not make it up.
"I don’t know that the season is over yet," Couhig is quoted as saying by The Mirror.
“To me, we have accumulated all the points we can and now we will see what happens.
“People tell me that Derby County has some issues out there.
We will start next season in league one but I don’t see very much that Rob has said that makes us look silly. or that isn’t factually correct
One thing I think we can all agree on is that the EFL should have got this sorted months ago.
I personally have no interest in surviving this way. It’s not what sport should be about, but this is the endgame of ludicrous levels of financial mismanagement.
Like others have said, i hope we stay out of this type of thing.
However just to point something out did the EFL set a set a precedent with this last year ? Macclesfield were retrospectively relegated after the season had ended, with Stevenage being reinstated
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53744939
The season is over, we didn> @floyd said:
Been eating chips?