How anyone can anyone think coming 3rd from bottom (and getting relegated) or avoiding having an 'R' against us in league tables until the last game (but still getting relegated) is in anyway something to celebrate I don't know. Some sort of small club mentality? Personally I'm just depressed that we clearly had the players to keep us up but unfortunately had a manager that didn't know how to best use them, until it was too late.
I'm not sure Wycombe are the club for you @Doob . No mention of early season injuries, a raft of terrible decisions going against us, key loanees not coming into the squad until the season was well underway, and the general dwarfing of our budget by all but a handful if other clubs.
I don't think raising the idea that we've looked a far better side since we changed to 3 at the back with wing backs so it's a shame it didn't come earlier is completely outrageous to be honest. Nor is questioning why it took so long to put Stockdale in the side. There may be very good reasons for both.
Doesn't mean that on balance you don't still think Gaz has done an amazing job and it's absolutely vital that we hang onto him.
@drcongo said:
Maybe Manchester City would be a better choice.
It wasn't so long ago that you were on here claiming that the team had been told not to try and win a game and questioning whether we would ever score another goal.
Maybe cut people a bit more slack for expressing their opinions?
@eric_plant said:
I don't think raising the idea that we've looked a far better side since we changed to 3 at the back with wing backs so it's a shame it didn't come earlier is completely outrageous to be honest. Nor is questioning why it took so long to put Stockdale in the side. There may be very good reasons for both.
Doesn't mean that on balance you don't still think Gaz has done an amazing job and it's absolutely vital that we hang onto him.
This is exactly my view as well. I do think Rob Couhig deserves credit for publicly challenging Gareth to step it up when he did, which resulted almost immediately in the change of formation and the wildly successful last few weeks. It's a shame for all concerned it didn't happen earlier. I was concerned around Jan that Gareth was sticking rigidly to a style that was failing to work for very easy to identify reasons. But he's proven since the Couhig letter that he absolutely has what it takes to adapt and I'm very keen to see how he takes the lessons he's learnt and uses them in League One.
@drcongo said:
Maybe Manchester City would be a better choice.
It wasn't so long ago that you were on here claiming that the team had been told not to try and win a game and questioning whether we would ever score another goal.
Maybe cut people a bit more slack for expressing their opinions?
It wasn't so long ago that you were on here almost every single game berating people for daring to question refereeing decisions.
Maybe cut people a bit more slack for expressing their opinions?
interesting point about timing. After the switch, GA said in a post-match interview that they had been considering going 3 at the back for a long time, but various things had prevented it, mainly the 2 matches per week situation where the coaching staff had limited time on the training ground with the players, to work on detailed tactical changes. They took the opportunity of making the change during the international break, accepting that it wasn't without risk.
The 'public message' from RC was about a month or so earlier than that.
Stockdale is 35, while some go on to their 40s some goalies careers fall off a cliff at a certain age, even the likes of Schmeichel and Seaman, either they can't do it anymore physically, don't fancy the hard work anymore, get injured, or can no longer deal with not being as good as they were. Stockdale did well for us in his very brief loan spell but only got two games in before he was recalled, he played less than 10 games in 2 years, then made a couple of mistakes in his two games last season and a howler in pre-season.
Allsop isn't everyone's favourite obviously but he'd played lots of games and made lots of good saves as we got promoted and was hardly under threat as first choice. Arguably if we'd brought Stockdale in earlier without his Stevenage spell he might have done worse. That spell, a change of focus and a subsequent clean sheet and Pen save really restored his belief and he's rightly number one now but let's not pretend it was that simple and we would definitely have stayed up if we'd picked him earlier.
I'm quite happy with people expressing an opinion, although sometimes when the opinion has been the same for a very long time, whatever the circumstances, I admit it can be irritating. When people with an air of superiority tell me that everyone who celebrates something or complains about something I think is worth celebrating or complaining about is some sort of ill-informed blinkered idiot that also grates. For all of the bad start, covid breaks, refereeing decisions and whatnot for me the season hinged on the games against Luton and Swansea when playing three at the back we let vital leads slip (with Stocko - who has been brilliant - in goal) that with other results might (and it IS a might) have dragged us to safety. I am smelling the coffee...but still in my rose-coloured glasses (and hopefully back in my seat trying to see over the dug-outs) for next season.
This was a unique season influenced in a major way by Covid. No-one is celebrating relegation but we (some of us anyway) are, and have every right to, celebrate how we have adapted to this unique situation.
The short close season didn’t help and almost certainly contributed to the awful start, which we never quite recovered from.
We gradually improved and the introduction finally of Uche gave us a genuine threat going forwards and we started to get some momentum, which was then stalled after the Preston cup game by the Covid outbreak.
From then on it was pretty much a slog and I don’t think we should underestimate, as @LeedsBlue points out, the difficulties in working on new systems when there is so little time between games.
The RC missive was well-aimed and targeted (at us as supporters) and did seem to lift the mood a little after it did feel that we’d all given up around the Birmingham home game.
I respect @Doob’s views (I owe him several beers) but do think we need to balance a manager “who didn’t know how to use them” tactically (with some mitigation) with a manager who has proved over the years how to get the best out of them in so many other ways.
The former criticism, and there is some validity there, is much easier to take on board and improve (as GA seems to have done) than the latter which is much much more about character.
At the moment, I feel we as a club are stronger now than we have been for many years. It feels that we approach next season as a genuine presence in League 1.
If we can maintain momentum hopefully this won’t prove to be a one off and we will be back in the Championship one day relatively soon. If not we may perhaps look back on this season as a missed opportunity, but personally it won’t be a season that I ever think I’ll look back on with other than pride.
Allsop was outstanding when he had the shirt but I wonder how much of a personality he is behind the defence. Stockdale APPEARS to be a calming influence and MAYBE this has had a positive impact on the defence and the results. Allsop was making some incredible saves and Stockdale hasn't had to make as many acrobatic stops for sure, but is this because the defence has been better and therefore the shots have been less from the opposition?
I would be more than happy with both next season, but I think it might be hard to do that.
As other have mentioned the Covid break and the effects of it on the following games, along with the Saturday-midweek schedule have had a far bigger impact on our season than letters, tactics or team selections. I feel like GA has grown as a tactician over the last couple of months, and that will stand us in good stead next season.
And if we have to go down, I’d much rather do it with an upturn of form at the end of the season than be like Rotherham. Must be devastating to have that many opportunities to get out of trouble and come to the last day with it out of your hands.
And if we have to go down, I’d much rather do it with an upturn of form at the end of the season than be like Rotherham. Must be devastating to have that many opportunities to get out of trouble and come to the last day with it out of your hands.
I was thinking last night about how the majority of Wycombe fans are feeling after this season, when we will in all likelihood finish bottom or second bottom, and the optimism and pride that has been flowing recently, and how that compares to the feelings of fans of Birmingham, Forest, Bristol City, Blackburn, even Millwall, QPR and Middlesborough about their season. All of them have survived with time and points to spare, or been comfortable pretty much all season, and yet much of what I read on forums or match comments suggests a lot of their fans are unhappy to say the least. Is our relative size the only factor or are we the least entitled set of fans in the league?
@MindlessDrugHoover I celebrated promotion, expected us to come back down but hoped not and except for the abysmal Birmingham game thought we were a good battling side. There is no shame for me anyway. As you say, if I was a fan of any of the well resourced clubs mentioned above (and as a Nottinghamian I am) with the managers they had...I would be much more concerned.
It is massively mixed emotions for us all, I am sure. Absolutely devastating to look at the "what-ifs", but pride and affection for how far we managed to punch above our weight.
@Shev said:
It is massively mixed emotions for us all, I am sure. Absolutely devastating to look at the "what-ifs", but pride and affection for how far we managed to punch above our weight.
Totally agree with these comments. Close season will be very interesting. Will the manager stay? A number of key stalwarts contracts up. Will they be renewed?. All goalkeepers contracts up. What will happen? Will any of our contracted players want to stay in the Championship? Can we sign any of our loanees who have had a real impact this season? . New players? So, plenty to talk, debate and perhaps even disagree on when this season is over.
Comments
How anyone can anyone think coming 3rd from bottom (and getting relegated) or avoiding having an 'R' against us in league tables until the last game (but still getting relegated) is in anyway something to celebrate I don't know. Some sort of small club mentality? Personally I'm just depressed that we clearly had the players to keep us up but unfortunately had a manager that didn't know how to best use them, until it was too late.
One of the most consistently pessimistic posters rounds off his season in typical style, with an R against his name.
I'm not sure Wycombe are the club for you @Doob . No mention of early season injuries, a raft of terrible decisions going against us, key loanees not coming into the squad until the season was well underway, and the general dwarfing of our budget by all but a handful if other clubs.
Maybe Manchester City would be a better choice.
Footballs all about opinions, Brian
I don't think raising the idea that we've looked a far better side since we changed to 3 at the back with wing backs so it's a shame it didn't come earlier is completely outrageous to be honest. Nor is questioning why it took so long to put Stockdale in the side. There may be very good reasons for both.
Doesn't mean that on balance you don't still think Gaz has done an amazing job and it's absolutely vital that we hang onto him.
It wasn't so long ago that you were on here claiming that the team had been told not to try and win a game and questioning whether we would ever score another goal.
Maybe cut people a bit more slack for expressing their opinions?
Nor is questioning why it took so long to put Stockdale in the side
Allsop was having a good season and the last we’d seen of Stockdale was this:
Stockdale has been even better than Allsop since he’s come in, but playing him wasn’t a guaranteed success.
This is exactly my view as well. I do think Rob Couhig deserves credit for publicly challenging Gareth to step it up when he did, which resulted almost immediately in the change of formation and the wildly successful last few weeks. It's a shame for all concerned it didn't happen earlier. I was concerned around Jan that Gareth was sticking rigidly to a style that was failing to work for very easy to identify reasons. But he's proven since the Couhig letter that he absolutely has what it takes to adapt and I'm very keen to see how he takes the lessons he's learnt and uses them in League One.
It wasn't so long ago that you were on here almost every single game berating people for daring to question refereeing decisions.
Maybe cut people a bit more slack for expressing their opinions?
interesting point about timing. After the switch, GA said in a post-match interview that they had been considering going 3 at the back for a long time, but various things had prevented it, mainly the 2 matches per week situation where the coaching staff had limited time on the training ground with the players, to work on detailed tactical changes. They took the opportunity of making the change during the international break, accepting that it wasn't without risk.
The 'public message' from RC was about a month or so earlier than that.
That almost works, but I'm not having a go at someone for doing the same thing I did
Anyway, it was just a thought
The last "we'd" seen of him yeah, but presumably the coaches have seen them in training ever since.
Like I said there may be a very good reason why it took so long, as it's always been fairly obvious to me who the better keeper is.
Stockdale is 35, while some go on to their 40s some goalies careers fall off a cliff at a certain age, even the likes of Schmeichel and Seaman, either they can't do it anymore physically, don't fancy the hard work anymore, get injured, or can no longer deal with not being as good as they were. Stockdale did well for us in his very brief loan spell but only got two games in before he was recalled, he played less than 10 games in 2 years, then made a couple of mistakes in his two games last season and a howler in pre-season.
Allsop isn't everyone's favourite obviously but he'd played lots of games and made lots of good saves as we got promoted and was hardly under threat as first choice. Arguably if we'd brought Stockdale in earlier without his Stevenage spell he might have done worse. That spell, a change of focus and a subsequent clean sheet and Pen save really restored his belief and he's rightly number one now but let's not pretend it was that simple and we would definitely have stayed up if we'd picked him earlier.
I'm quite happy with people expressing an opinion, although sometimes when the opinion has been the same for a very long time, whatever the circumstances, I admit it can be irritating. When people with an air of superiority tell me that everyone who celebrates something or complains about something I think is worth celebrating or complaining about is some sort of ill-informed blinkered idiot that also grates. For all of the bad start, covid breaks, refereeing decisions and whatnot for me the season hinged on the games against Luton and Swansea when playing three at the back we let vital leads slip (with Stocko - who has been brilliant - in goal) that with other results might (and it IS a might) have dragged us to safety. I am smelling the coffee...but still in my rose-coloured glasses (and hopefully back in my seat trying to see over the dug-outs) for next season.
Did Stockdale's return coincide with the new gk coach appointment?
It may have been close @bigred87 (I honestly don’t know) but I think we can be pretty certain that it coincided with a genuine injury to Ryan Allsop.
Not sure exactly when he returned but I can see Harrison tweeting about Allsops great saves some time earlier so seems unlikely.
I was also not having a go at someone, you're projecting. I remember when you used to be one of the most interesting posters on here.
This was a unique season influenced in a major way by Covid. No-one is celebrating relegation but we (some of us anyway) are, and have every right to, celebrate how we have adapted to this unique situation.
The short close season didn’t help and almost certainly contributed to the awful start, which we never quite recovered from.
We gradually improved and the introduction finally of Uche gave us a genuine threat going forwards and we started to get some momentum, which was then stalled after the Preston cup game by the Covid outbreak.
From then on it was pretty much a slog and I don’t think we should underestimate, as @LeedsBlue points out, the difficulties in working on new systems when there is so little time between games.
The RC missive was well-aimed and targeted (at us as supporters) and did seem to lift the mood a little after it did feel that we’d all given up around the Birmingham home game.
I respect @Doob’s views (I owe him several beers) but do think we need to balance a manager “who didn’t know how to use them” tactically (with some mitigation) with a manager who has proved over the years how to get the best out of them in so many other ways.
The former criticism, and there is some validity there, is much easier to take on board and improve (as GA seems to have done) than the latter which is much much more about character.
At the moment, I feel we as a club are stronger now than we have been for many years. It feels that we approach next season as a genuine presence in League 1.
If we can maintain momentum hopefully this won’t prove to be a one off and we will be back in the Championship one day relatively soon. If not we may perhaps look back on this season as a missed opportunity, but personally it won’t be a season that I ever think I’ll look back on with other than pride.
He returned in January (according to Wikipedia).
Allsop was outstanding when he had the shirt but I wonder how much of a personality he is behind the defence. Stockdale APPEARS to be a calming influence and MAYBE this has had a positive impact on the defence and the results. Allsop was making some incredible saves and Stockdale hasn't had to make as many acrobatic stops for sure, but is this because the defence has been better and therefore the shots have been less from the opposition?
I would be more than happy with both next season, but I think it might be hard to do that.
As other have mentioned the Covid break and the effects of it on the following games, along with the Saturday-midweek schedule have had a far bigger impact on our season than letters, tactics or team selections. I feel like GA has grown as a tactician over the last couple of months, and that will stand us in good stead next season.
And if we have to go down, I’d much rather do it with an upturn of form at the end of the season than be like Rotherham. Must be devastating to have that many opportunities to get out of trouble and come to the last day with it out of your hands.
You suggested he support another club, but ok
Someone else suggested he supported another club, I suggested a club. Your funny little crush on me is causing you to project again. But ok.
I was thinking last night about how the majority of Wycombe fans are feeling after this season, when we will in all likelihood finish bottom or second bottom, and the optimism and pride that has been flowing recently, and how that compares to the feelings of fans of Birmingham, Forest, Bristol City, Blackburn, even Millwall, QPR and Middlesborough about their season. All of them have survived with time and points to spare, or been comfortable pretty much all season, and yet much of what I read on forums or match comments suggests a lot of their fans are unhappy to say the least. Is our relative size the only factor or are we the least entitled set of fans in the league?
Winning solves everything.
@MindlessDrugHoover I celebrated promotion, expected us to come back down but hoped not and except for the abysmal Birmingham game thought we were a good battling side. There is no shame for me anyway. As you say, if I was a fan of any of the well resourced clubs mentioned above (and as a Nottinghamian I am) with the managers they had...I would be much more concerned.
It is massively mixed emotions for us all, I am sure. Absolutely devastating to look at the "what-ifs", but pride and affection for how far we managed to punch above our weight.
Totally agree with these comments. Close season will be very interesting. Will the manager stay? A number of key stalwarts contracts up. Will they be renewed?. All goalkeepers contracts up. What will happen? Will any of our contracted players want to stay in the Championship? Can we sign any of our loanees who have had a real impact this season? . New players? So, plenty to talk, debate and perhaps even disagree on when this season is over.