I think we all feared the combo of Charles and McCarthy at left back in there.
But surely no-one saw us getting hammered.
At least immediately from the next game we'll have the new signing to slot in at left back, and then we can either move McCarthy over or deem Stewart as being ready to start.
Yes you’re right, nobody could have envisaged a drubbing like that. Even at half-time.
It didn’t help that two of our better players from the first half of the season, Jack Grimmer and Curtis Thompson were also poor - not for the first time of late, either.
Bit of a Gasroom ‘Greatest Hits’ in here tonight (minus Trevor). Couldn’t watch the game and yet to see any highlights but was always going to be a difficult game with a makeshift defence.
Am I right in thinking that none of the ‘Generals’ started? If so in some way we were without the heart of the team and possibly more likely to succumb when things went wrong.
I do also wonder whether tipping over into the ‘10 points to safety’ is an important psychological barrier to overcome. A lot of here (with some justification) have gone all ‘abandon hope, all ye..’ and it’s not hard to imagine some of the players feeling that as well.
I do think Tuesday is now a really important game. Not ‘must win’ but I’d probably see it as ‘must not lose’. I’d certainly take a point now.
Saddest thing though is that this could possibly be Darius’s last game for us (if Stewart is fit) If so, a shame for such a class act to bow out in such a way.
Poor old Darius is lost at Champ level. Slow and pained. He reads the game so well but can not cope with the power and movement of the likes of Canos, Toney & Da Silva. I felt sorry for Knight in that defence today even the usually excellent Grimmer looked laboured.
Really missing Gape as the intelligent holding midfielder. Unless he is back soon we might as well resign hope. On the plus side we have some strong attacking options right now and I agree with one of the previous comments that we would fare pretty well in league one with this squad.
what more did we expect? we held our own for 45 mins are were undone by one of the worst referees I have have ever witnessed. we have to be realistic and we will get relegated however what a squad we have for league one...where we can really challenge for promotion. Uvhe is an absolute amazing signing.
Clearly McCarthy was extremely poor at left back but some blame must go to management who have only just got cover for JJ yesterday. Surely they didn't think JJ could last all season.
The big problem, that someone else touched on, is that we needed EVERYthing to go for us to have a chance this year.
Like you say, it's all gone against us. So it's not that big a surprise we're not only in the relegation zone, but as far off safety as any team has ever been at this stage.
>
We are playing a season of 46 cup ties, mostly against better opposition. We stay in games, we win the odd one, we draw others but at the same time we all know the smaller team generally loses the cup tie. We need a lot of luck to stay up.
Anyone (well, the one person) who thinks the penalty was justified should look at the angle from behind the goal which clearly shows Onyedinma clear the ball before the Brentford player runs across him and ‘falls’ over.
The award of the penalty was an absolute joke. Having said that our defending in the game Was generally dire. It was unfortunate that Stewart wasn’t picked for this game and the new guy was signed too late to play. The back four picks It’s self for Tuesday. We are going through a steep learning curve this season. Thinking long- term we will have a more than useful team for league one
Don't give up on this season, I'm sure the manager and players haven't.
Yesterday's scoreline was obviously a bit of a horror show but in terms of points gained we're sort of in the same position now as we were before the game in that I doubt many people were expecting us to come away from Brentford with anything, so if you're plotting our course to a points total that will keep us up you'd probably have budgeted for zero from yesterday.
It's this next run of games that are going to make or break our season. We need at least one of Stewart or Tafazolli back of course, and the new left back to slot in, but I think we'll beat Birmingham on Tuesday (I'm more confident of that having been tonked by Brentford funnily enough) and that might just kick start the run of results we need to really give us a chance of staying up.
Fans are getting hung up on the gap to safety as it stands, but in a sense that's not important. What is important is that by the final whistle on the last day of the season we've reached the points target we need to stay up. That's usually around the 43-45 point mark.
We've got a run of good results in us and it's all to play for. All this talk of being in a good position for league 1 next season is a bit defeatist if you ask me, and the exact opposite of the mindset that have brought us to where we are today.
@Mr67 said:
The award of the penalty was an absolute joke. Having said that our defending in the game Was generally dire. It was unfortunate that Stewart wasn’t picked for this game and the new guy was signed too late to play. The back four picks It’s self for Tuesday. We are going through a steep learning curve this season. Thinking long- term we will have a more than useful team for league one
Intrigued by what this back four is that picks itself on Tuesday. Could have Taffazoli, Stewart, Obita and even JJ back by then.
Brentford were a lively attacking force all game yesterday. Quick, mobile and incisive at key moments. We are clearly still struggling with injuries and the recent Covid outbreak and subsequent training stoppage. The late loss of Pattison hurt all the pre match planning.
The second half yesterday was something that could always happen in this league, especially will all the factors above. We probably should have been leading at half time and were in the game until an awful defensive header by Thompson (his only real error on a great performance) and a ludicrous penalty decision put us 4-2 down and chasing the game. We just got picked off towards the end due to leaving gaps and looking knackered.
On top of the back four issues we really could do with Gape and Horgan back. Both keep the ball in our possession and can help stop sides counter attacking so quickly.
One thing we’ve done pretty well is doubling up defending in wide areas to help JJ at left back. Yesterday we didn’t do that at all.
The third goal McCarthy had no help, he stood off but he also had a player overlapping so even if he had got tight it was easy to lay the ball off.
Given the way Brentford moved the ball at pace it was completely the wrong time to go three up top and hassle.
We got away with it first half. Second half we should have let them bring the ball to half way and then invited them to break us down. It was crazy to play only three in midfield and no wide players. Every attack they had men left over on the opposite side of the pitch and they switched play to find them and score at will. It was embarrassing and Ainsworth needs to hold his hands up to this as the management got it completely and utterly wrong.
I’m all for winning games but we seemed to want to win yesterday without doing the basic defensive work first. At this level you come unstuck.
Our next 6 games are all winnable. I think we can get 12/13 points out of that run and bring ourselves back into contention.
To do this though I think we need to play 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 and ensure we protect the back four better.
Adeniran and Thompson need to play in the middle or Gape if fit. We need ball winners and more than one protective midfielder.
Watched Ainsworth post match interview and he has set the challenge of 35 points for the second half of the season. In all honesty, how many expected anything from the game with Brentford. So it starts Tuesday. I know @glasshalffull doesn’t like the expression must win game but I believe it is. It will give us a bit of belief going into February ‘s fixtures which will go a long way to define our season.
@davecz said:
Watched Ainsworth post match interview and he has set the challenge of 35 points for the second half of the season. In all honesty, how many expected anything from the game with Brentford. So it starts Tuesday. I know @glasshalffull doesn’t like the expression must win game but I believe it is. It will give us a bit of belief going into February ‘s fixtures which will go a long way to define our season.
You've argued against your own point. 35 points needed and more than 35 points available after Tuesdays game. It's not a must win game.
No idea why people insist on using this term. I think anyone declaring a game as must win should be forced to not watch or comment on any more of the season if we don't win it. A bit like the FA Cup stopping us playing any more FA Cup matches after losing Monday's 'must win' match
@Right_in_the_Middle - its an expression that has been used for your years. Certainly not worth getting upset about and suggesting such harsh penalties for using it. Chill .
I feel a lot better this morning after reading the eminently sensible posts above by Eric and RITM.
Yesterday was a setback, but nothing more. At half time even the Brentford media sitting near me were saying that Wycombe were the better team and to a man they agreed that the penalty was a very poor decision.
If we can attack like we did in the first half and strengthen defensively with the return of Taffazolli, Stewart and Obita, we can be a match for most teams in the division. Big ‘ifs’ I know, but it’s far too soon to give up hope .
Agree with the recent above comments. We carry a real threat going forwards for the 1st time this season. Defensively we were a disaster yesterday, but with the imminent return of Stewart and Tafazolli and the introduction of Obita (and let's hope JJ Isn't out for too long) we will be considerably stronger for the upcoming games. Avoiding relegation is of course a big ask, but there's real hope for a strong 2nd half of the season in my eyes.
We also have Gape, Horgan and JJ to come back.
Stay positive. I think the Brentford game will be something our management and team will not forget and push us on to better things.
Although we have a big debt to pay to a number of our older players, we cannot surely be picking Charles, Bayo or Bloomers in the starting 11 again this season. As I say great servants but we have to move on if we are to survive at this level. The terrible reality of stepping up a level.
I know it's easy to justify losing to Brentford as a fully expected result. But this is a side we've played twice before, drawing 1-1 and 0-0. I know Brentford traditionally start the season slowly before moving through the gears - but given the enormity of the task facing us, that's exactly what we need to be doing as well, not going backwards.
We're a side that looks exhausted and with a squad that's pretty threadbare. Hardly the best place to be going into a massive run of games that will come at us thick and fast.
But let's remember, there were only one or two of us arguing that we should use the January window to strengthen the squad sufficiently to give us a chance to stay up. Most of you were happy to accept that spending money now would be a false economy. Maybe you're all right; but we saw the result of that decision yesterday.
The one thing Gareth needs to do now is accept defeat with the formation and move to one that sacrifices a forward for more defensive cover. Every side has now played us once and every side now knows how to exploit the gaps out wide on the counter attack. They all have the clinical players to do so. He may not be able to call on strength in depth in our squad to prevent a regular tonking, but Gareth can change the formation to try and do so.
@glasshalffull said:
Anyone (well, the one person) who thinks the penalty was justified should look at the angle from behind the goal which clearly shows Onyedinma clear the ball before the Brentford player runs across him and ‘falls’ over.
By dithering on the ball in his own box Fred gave the opportunity to the opponent to close him down. The opponent got to the ball first but made a pretty poor connection with the ball before Fred hacked it clear. As Fred cleared the ball his striking leg then naturally followed through and the Brentford player ran into it.
If the ball had just be cleared promptly this situation would never have arisen. It’s not a stone wall decision at all but I’ve seen similar penalties given numerous times before.
The bottom line is it was totally avoidable by getting rid of the ball early and not dithering, for me it was a typical attacking player in his own box and the clumsyness of it.
@glasshalffull said:
Anyone (well, the one person) who thinks the penalty was justified should look at the angle from behind the goal which clearly shows Onyedinma clear the ball before the Brentford player runs across him and ‘falls’ over.
By dithering on the ball in his own box Fred gave the opportunity to the opponent to close him down. The opponent got to the ball first but made a pretty poor connection with the ball before Fred hacked it clear. As Fred cleared the ball his striking leg then naturally followed through and the Brentford player ran into it.
If the ball had just be cleared promptly this situation would never have arisen. It’s not a stone wall decision at all but I’ve seen similar penalties given numerous times before.
The bottom line is it was totally avoidable by getting rid of the ball early and not dithering, for me it was a typical attacking player in his own box and the clumsyness of it.
Dithering on the ball is not an offence punishable by the award of a penalty and by your own description Fred cleared the ball with his striking leg before the Brentford player ‘ran into it.’ How on earth does that constitute a foul? I have watched literally thousands of games in my time and I have never seen a penalty given for a situation like yesterday’s. You say that you have, so I would genuinely be interested to see one of the numerous examples to which you refer.
@aloysius said:
I know it's easy to justify losing to Brentford as a fully expected result. But this is a side we've played twice before, drawing 1-1 and 0-0. I know Brentford traditionally start the season slowly before moving through the gears - but given the enormity of the task facing us, that's exactly what we need to be doing as well, not going backwards.
We're a side that looks exhausted and with a squad that's pretty threadbare. Hardly the best place to be going into a massive run of games that will come at us thick and fast.
But let's remember, there were only one or two of us arguing that we should use the January window to strengthen the squad sufficiently to give us a chance to stay up. Most of you were happy to accept that spending money now would be a false economy. Maybe you're all right; but we saw the result of that decision yesterday.
The one thing Gareth needs to do now is accept defeat with the formation and move to one that sacrifices a forward for more defensive cover. Every side has now played us once and every side now knows how to exploit the gaps out wide on the counter attack. They all have the clinical players to do so. He may not be able to call on strength in depth in our squad to prevent a regular tonking, but Gareth can change the formation to try and do so.
But we did strengthen the squad with the acquisition of Muskwe and Obita. Given our financial limitations and the rules regarding squad size, how many more additions were you hoping for?
I know Covid19 and injuries have taken their toll. And I know that recovery from Covid takes weeks rather than days. Losing a player to injury in the pre-match warm-up is rare and it doesn’t help when that player is as industrious as the often underrated Alex Pattison and reduces the competitiveness of an already depleted midfield. (I’ll say nothing here about the loaning out of a midfielder who has composure on the ball and rarely loses it!)
Maybe these factors plus the unavoidable cancellation of at least one training session over the past ten days have taken the edge off players’ sharpness and, most obviously, their mental and physical resilience but I find talk of exhaustion hard to take. I referred recently to a four match Cup saga in 1968 involving at least two periods of extra time. The Wanderers were amateur ; their opponents, Bedford, were semi-professional. The same Wycombe eleven started and finished each game. I’m not sure if the (single) substitute rule (to replace an injured player) had been introduced for domestic matches at that time but, if it had, it seems that Wycombe did not make use of it.
Comments
I think we all feared the combo of Charles and McCarthy at left back in there.
But surely no-one saw us getting hammered.
At least immediately from the next game we'll have the new signing to slot in at left back, and then we can either move McCarthy over or deem Stewart as being ready to start.
Yes you’re right, nobody could have envisaged a drubbing like that. Even at half-time.
It didn’t help that two of our better players from the first half of the season, Jack Grimmer and Curtis Thompson were also poor - not for the first time of late, either.
Jason was poor today, but not even in the top ten of terrible performances i've seen.
The other concern has to be that we seemed to run out of steam well before the end for the second time in a week.
Hardly surprising given off-field events but must be a big worry for Gareth given our trademark is the intensity of our approach.
Can only hope that the amount of games coming up will see us play ourselves back to full fitness.
We havent lost until the funereal clang of a @Wanderers82 'garbage' post drops into the Gasroom. Or did I miss it?
Bit of a Gasroom ‘Greatest Hits’ in here tonight (minus Trevor). Couldn’t watch the game and yet to see any highlights but was always going to be a difficult game with a makeshift defence.
Am I right in thinking that none of the ‘Generals’ started? If so in some way we were without the heart of the team and possibly more likely to succumb when things went wrong.
I do also wonder whether tipping over into the ‘10 points to safety’ is an important psychological barrier to overcome. A lot of here (with some justification) have gone all ‘abandon hope, all ye..’ and it’s not hard to imagine some of the players feeling that as well.
I do think Tuesday is now a really important game. Not ‘must win’ but I’d probably see it as ‘must not lose’. I’d certainly take a point now.
Saddest thing though is that this could possibly be Darius’s last game for us (if Stewart is fit) If so, a shame for such a class act to bow out in such a way.
I think today makes a win on Tuesday more likely than it was before
Poor old Darius is lost at Champ level. Slow and pained. He reads the game so well but can not cope with the power and movement of the likes of Canos, Toney & Da Silva. I felt sorry for Knight in that defence today even the usually excellent Grimmer looked laboured.
Really missing Gape as the intelligent holding midfielder. Unless he is back soon we might as well resign hope. On the plus side we have some strong attacking options right now and I agree with one of the previous comments that we would fare pretty well in league one with this squad.
what more did we expect? we held our own for 45 mins are were undone by one of the worst referees I have have ever witnessed. we have to be realistic and we will get relegated however what a squad we have for league one...where we can really challenge for promotion. Uvhe is an absolute amazing signing.
Clearly McCarthy was extremely poor at left back but some blame must go to management who have only just got cover for JJ yesterday. Surely they didn't think JJ could last all season.
>
We are playing a season of 46 cup ties, mostly against better opposition. We stay in games, we win the odd one, we draw others but at the same time we all know the smaller team generally loses the cup tie. We need a lot of luck to stay up.
Is that a deliberate error? Take 50 lines...Nottingham Forest, Nottingham Forest, Nottingham Forest...
Anyone (well, the one person) who thinks the penalty was justified should look at the angle from behind the goal which clearly shows Onyedinma clear the ball before the Brentford player runs across him and ‘falls’ over.
The award of the penalty was an absolute joke. Having said that our defending in the game Was generally dire. It was unfortunate that Stewart wasn’t picked for this game and the new guy was signed too late to play. The back four picks It’s self for Tuesday. We are going through a steep learning curve this season. Thinking long- term we will have a more than useful team for league one
Don't give up on this season, I'm sure the manager and players haven't.
Yesterday's scoreline was obviously a bit of a horror show but in terms of points gained we're sort of in the same position now as we were before the game in that I doubt many people were expecting us to come away from Brentford with anything, so if you're plotting our course to a points total that will keep us up you'd probably have budgeted for zero from yesterday.
It's this next run of games that are going to make or break our season. We need at least one of Stewart or Tafazolli back of course, and the new left back to slot in, but I think we'll beat Birmingham on Tuesday (I'm more confident of that having been tonked by Brentford funnily enough) and that might just kick start the run of results we need to really give us a chance of staying up.
Fans are getting hung up on the gap to safety as it stands, but in a sense that's not important. What is important is that by the final whistle on the last day of the season we've reached the points target we need to stay up. That's usually around the 43-45 point mark.
We've got a run of good results in us and it's all to play for. All this talk of being in a good position for league 1 next season is a bit defeatist if you ask me, and the exact opposite of the mindset that have brought us to where we are today.
Intrigued by what this back four is that picks itself on Tuesday. Could have Taffazoli, Stewart, Obita and even JJ back by then.
Brentford were a lively attacking force all game yesterday. Quick, mobile and incisive at key moments. We are clearly still struggling with injuries and the recent Covid outbreak and subsequent training stoppage. The late loss of Pattison hurt all the pre match planning.
The second half yesterday was something that could always happen in this league, especially will all the factors above. We probably should have been leading at half time and were in the game until an awful defensive header by Thompson (his only real error on a great performance) and a ludicrous penalty decision put us 4-2 down and chasing the game. We just got picked off towards the end due to leaving gaps and looking knackered.
On top of the back four issues we really could do with Gape and Horgan back. Both keep the ball in our possession and can help stop sides counter attacking so quickly.
One thing we’ve done pretty well is doubling up defending in wide areas to help JJ at left back. Yesterday we didn’t do that at all.
The third goal McCarthy had no help, he stood off but he also had a player overlapping so even if he had got tight it was easy to lay the ball off.
Given the way Brentford moved the ball at pace it was completely the wrong time to go three up top and hassle.
We got away with it first half. Second half we should have let them bring the ball to half way and then invited them to break us down. It was crazy to play only three in midfield and no wide players. Every attack they had men left over on the opposite side of the pitch and they switched play to find them and score at will. It was embarrassing and Ainsworth needs to hold his hands up to this as the management got it completely and utterly wrong.
I’m all for winning games but we seemed to want to win yesterday without doing the basic defensive work first. At this level you come unstuck.
Our next 6 games are all winnable. I think we can get 12/13 points out of that run and bring ourselves back into contention.
To do this though I think we need to play 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 and ensure we protect the back four better.
Adeniran and Thompson need to play in the middle or Gape if fit. We need ball winners and more than one protective midfielder.
Agreed on Gape and Horgan
Watched Ainsworth post match interview and he has set the challenge of 35 points for the second half of the season. In all honesty, how many expected anything from the game with Brentford. So it starts Tuesday. I know @glasshalffull doesn’t like the expression must win game but I believe it is. It will give us a bit of belief going into February ‘s fixtures which will go a long way to define our season.
But we could lose on Tuesday and then win our next three.
There are very very few actual "must win" games (Torquay was one), but it gets bandied about on a seemingly weekly basis
You've argued against your own point. 35 points needed and more than 35 points available after Tuesdays game. It's not a must win game.
No idea why people insist on using this term. I think anyone declaring a game as must win should be forced to not watch or comment on any more of the season if we don't win it. A bit like the FA Cup stopping us playing any more FA Cup matches after losing Monday's 'must win' match
@Right_in_the_Middle - its an expression that has been used for your years. Certainly not worth getting upset about and suggesting such harsh penalties for using it. Chill .
I feel a lot better this morning after reading the eminently sensible posts above by Eric and RITM.
Yesterday was a setback, but nothing more. At half time even the Brentford media sitting near me were saying that Wycombe were the better team and to a man they agreed that the penalty was a very poor decision.
If we can attack like we did in the first half and strengthen defensively with the return of Taffazolli, Stewart and Obita, we can be a match for most teams in the division. Big ‘ifs’ I know, but it’s far too soon to give up hope .
Agree with the recent above comments. We carry a real threat going forwards for the 1st time this season. Defensively we were a disaster yesterday, but with the imminent return of Stewart and Tafazolli and the introduction of Obita (and let's hope JJ Isn't out for too long) we will be considerably stronger for the upcoming games. Avoiding relegation is of course a big ask, but there's real hope for a strong 2nd half of the season in my eyes.
We also have Gape, Horgan and JJ to come back.
Stay positive. I think the Brentford game will be something our management and team will not forget and push us on to better things.
Although we have a big debt to pay to a number of our older players, we cannot surely be picking Charles, Bayo or Bloomers in the starting 11 again this season. As I say great servants but we have to move on if we are to survive at this level. The terrible reality of stepping up a level.
I know it's easy to justify losing to Brentford as a fully expected result. But this is a side we've played twice before, drawing 1-1 and 0-0. I know Brentford traditionally start the season slowly before moving through the gears - but given the enormity of the task facing us, that's exactly what we need to be doing as well, not going backwards.
We're a side that looks exhausted and with a squad that's pretty threadbare. Hardly the best place to be going into a massive run of games that will come at us thick and fast.
But let's remember, there were only one or two of us arguing that we should use the January window to strengthen the squad sufficiently to give us a chance to stay up. Most of you were happy to accept that spending money now would be a false economy. Maybe you're all right; but we saw the result of that decision yesterday.
The one thing Gareth needs to do now is accept defeat with the formation and move to one that sacrifices a forward for more defensive cover. Every side has now played us once and every side now knows how to exploit the gaps out wide on the counter attack. They all have the clinical players to do so. He may not be able to call on strength in depth in our squad to prevent a regular tonking, but Gareth can change the formation to try and do so.
By dithering on the ball in his own box Fred gave the opportunity to the opponent to close him down. The opponent got to the ball first but made a pretty poor connection with the ball before Fred hacked it clear. As Fred cleared the ball his striking leg then naturally followed through and the Brentford player ran into it.
If the ball had just be cleared promptly this situation would never have arisen. It’s not a stone wall decision at all but I’ve seen similar penalties given numerous times before.
The bottom line is it was totally avoidable by getting rid of the ball early and not dithering, for me it was a typical attacking player in his own box and the clumsyness of it.
Dithering on the ball is not an offence punishable by the award of a penalty and by your own description Fred cleared the ball with his striking leg before the Brentford player ‘ran into it.’ How on earth does that constitute a foul? I have watched literally thousands of games in my time and I have never seen a penalty given for a situation like yesterday’s. You say that you have, so I would genuinely be interested to see one of the numerous examples to which you refer.
But we did strengthen the squad with the acquisition of Muskwe and Obita. Given our financial limitations and the rules regarding squad size, how many more additions were you hoping for?
I know Covid19 and injuries have taken their toll. And I know that recovery from Covid takes weeks rather than days. Losing a player to injury in the pre-match warm-up is rare and it doesn’t help when that player is as industrious as the often underrated Alex Pattison and reduces the competitiveness of an already depleted midfield. (I’ll say nothing here about the loaning out of a midfielder who has composure on the ball and rarely loses it!)
Maybe these factors plus the unavoidable cancellation of at least one training session over the past ten days have taken the edge off players’ sharpness and, most obviously, their mental and physical resilience but I find talk of exhaustion hard to take. I referred recently to a four match Cup saga in 1968 involving at least two periods of extra time. The Wanderers were amateur ; their opponents, Bedford, were semi-professional. The same Wycombe eleven started and finished each game. I’m not sure if the (single) substitute rule (to replace an injured player) had been introduced for domestic matches at that time but, if it had, it seems that Wycombe did not make use of it.