@TheAndyGrahamFanClub said:
Lots of stuff to take in here. But one point I feel passionate about... Nick Freeman. I just don't get it. Never let us down. When he played the other week in what was an unfamiliar position he showed a calm head and a lot of ability. Now can't buy minutes. A real blindspot imho and I just don't get it.
@TheAndyGrahamFanClub said:
Lots of stuff to take in here. But one point I feel passionate about... Nick Freeman. I just don't get it. Never let us down. When he played the other week in what was an unfamiliar position he showed a calm head and a lot of ability. Now can't buy minutes. A real blindspot imho and I just don't get it.
Interesting to look at the contracted position beyond next summer.
GK: Both Allsop and Stockdale contracts run out this summer. I would expect Allsop to be offered an extension if we are in League 1, less sure if we are in Champ.
FB All three of Grimmer, McCarthy and Jacobson are contracted until at least 2022 although perhaps we may get a good offer to sell Grimmer to a Championship club if we get relegated
CB Stewart and Tafazolli contracted beyond 2021 although again possible may get a transfer offer for Stewart in the summer if we get relegated. Charles contract expires this summer. Would he want another year in Lg1 not as first choice or is this a good time to stop? Knight if available would make that strong. Philips as back up if in Lg1?
CM Gape and Bloomfield contracted beyond 2021. Thompson expires then - would he get a better offer elsewhere? Pattison expires this summer. Needs to have a good second half to get a renewal. mehmeti expires this summer - will surely be offered a new contract.
WM Wheeler, Horgan, Fred and Freeman all contracted into 2022. None likely to get transfer offer. In Lg1 would there be room for McCleary too?
F Ikpeazu, Kashket and Samuel contracted into 2022. Bayo expires this summer. His choice whether to stay surely.
Kids who knows.
Parker surely leaves this summer whichever division.
@mooneyman said:
I understand your argument @StrongestTeam, but who would you leave out to accommodate Freeman?
I'd have him alongside Curtis, certainly while Gape is out, ahead of Blooms, Pattison, probably behind Adeniran although he may have gone off the boil / still be carrying an injury, certainly ahead of McCarthy and by the looks of the last game it's going to be a stretch for Mehmeti to play in a 2.
Wheeler, McCleary and Horgan obviously need to contribute but I wouldn't include them in the central 2 or 3 ideally.
I like what Nick brings to the match day experience. He is one player that will get off my seat in anticipation. Remembering those killer balls to Kashket & Wheeler & possibly other occasions that my memory has failed me on. Isn't he the nearest thing we have to that "through ball midfielder" we have been asking Gareth to bring in?
A point I'd make about Freeman - it must be really difficult when you are never given a good run in the side, as it is a sword of Damocles hanging over you. It is a bit chicken or egg (as some think he does not do enough when he gets the odd chance) but his appearances are so stop start I do feel as though he is at a bit of a disadvantage. To me, he is the only player besides Mehmeti who is likely to put his foot on the ball in the centre of the park and look to make things happen (Adeniran shows some of that too, though for me it is more driving with the ball than picking a creative pass). Unless Mehmeti is ready to shoulder the whole burden (and I don't think any of us would put that weight on him) Freeman surely has a part to play.
@Shev said:
A point I'd make about Freeman - it must be really difficult when you are never given a good run in the side, as it is a sword of Damocles hanging over you. It is a bit chicken or egg (as some think he does not do enough when he gets the odd chance) but his appearances are so stop start I do feel as though he is at a bit of a disadvantage. To me, he is the only player besides Mehmeti who is likely to put his foot on the ball in the centre of the park and look to make things happen (Adeniran shows some of that too, though for me it is more driving with the ball than picking a creative pass). Unless Mehmeti is ready to shoulder the whole burden (and I don't think any of us would put that weight on him) Freeman surely has a part to play.
It could be argued that Mehmeti's emergence is the one that's really shattered Freeman's position here.
5-6 years younger, greater ceiling and he's probably getting the appearances Freeman would have got previously.
Hard to see a look in out wide with Horgan, Wheeler, Fred and McCleary there and not really a deep lying/combative centre mid guy.
So it'll be interesting to see if the recent disappearance from the squad is down to this realisation or simply an illness!
A random Rob Couhig ‘moan’ thread, inevitably started by @aloysius and predictably hijacked by @DevC, will surely be no match for one of the great Gasroom moments of any season - The FA Cup Thread - which @LX1 will no doubt be launching in the early hours of a morning later this week, culminating in @oilysailor’s matchday poem.
The season will be starting very soon. Bring it on...
@DevC said:
Interesting to look at the contracted position beyond next summer.
GK: Both Allsop and Stockdale contracts run out this summer. I would expect Allsop to be offered an extension if we are in League 1, less sure if we are in Champ.
FB All three of Grimmer, McCarthy and Jacobson are contracted until at least 2022 although perhaps we may get a good offer to sell Grimmer to a Championship club if we get relegated
CB Stewart and Tafazolli contracted beyond 2021 although again possible may get a transfer offer for Stewart in the summer if we get relegated. Charles contract expires this summer. Would he want another year in Lg1 not as first choice or is this a good time to stop? Knight if available would make that strong. Philips as back up if in Lg1?
CM Gape and Bloomfield contracted beyond 2021. Thompson expires then - would he get a better offer elsewhere? Pattison expires this summer. Needs to have a good second half to get a renewal. mehmeti expires this summer - will surely be offered a new contract.
WM Wheeler, Horgan, Fred and Freeman all contracted into 2022. None likely to get transfer offer. In Lg1 would there be room for McCleary too?
F Ikpeazu, Kashket and Samuel contracted into 2022. Bayo expires this summer. His choice whether to stay surely.
Kids who knows.
Parker surely leaves this summer whichever division.
have i missed anyone.
Troubling to hear Thompson is out of contract in the summer. For me he is our best player.
Mehmeti will have a clause in his deal which gives us the option to extend by a year at least, that’s pretty standard with players of his age nowadays.
@glasshalffull said:
‘The Couhigs are looking to tart the ground up before flipping it to the highest bidder’ according to Aloysius, who gets full marks for consistency (he has been against the Couhigs from the outset) but scores low on facts.
Floodlights, press box, dug outs were all compulsory requirements for being in the Championship.
Sorry - posted all those words (more than 300, @Chris - whoops) and then failed to reply to any of the considered criticism provided in response.
Let's start with Alan Parry. I really don't think it's accurate to say I've been against the Couhigs from the start (not like a commentator to use reductive language, eh!?) - it's just I've always chosen to be sceptical of authority, any authority, rather than sycophantic. Others can take a different position. However I thank Alan for pointing out the above, which encouraged me to read the EFL rules to double-check. He's right about the press box and the floodlights, though not the dug-out - there's no mention of it being necessary to upgrade the trainer's bench, just to keep them separate.
The main criticism - expounded by @bookertease et al is that we would become unsustainable with a heavy wage bill if relegated. Well - that is where having a decent contract negotiator comes in (isn't Andrew Howard doing this now as 'sporting consultant'?). Salary reduction clauses; break clauses; low base rate supplemented by a whole gamut of bonuses - that should all be possible to negotiate. Alternatively (or in addition) bring in quality loanees on large salaries til the end of the season. We did it last year with Rolando Aarons and David Stockdale. I don't remember accusations that the club had broken the spirit of the squad by doing that.
@JohnBoy and @perfidious_albion make the point that we'd have to reduce headcount to bring in new players - as does @EwanHoosaami with his references to something called an X-Box. Well, all I'd say is that Gareth has called for extra additions so he must have a plan for reducing headcount. We've paid of Adam el-Abd, Paul Hayes, Sam Saunders mid-season, it's not beyond the realms of possibility we'll do the same with Josh Parker and Darius Charles, nor is it inconceivable that one or two of our squad might go out on loan.
Others, like @eric_plant and @mooneyman accuse me of wanting massive overspending. I really don't. But I do think that there's a reason Championship clubs are given more in solidarity payments than clubs in League One and that's to allow for inflated transfer fees and wages. How much have we spent so far on Tafazolli, Horgan, McCarthy and Ikpeazu? £100k combined? £200k? We've seen how much difference just two of those players coming back in recent weeks have contributed to the quality of play (a point that @StrongestTeam makes well). Just imagine how much better it would be if we could bring in even two more of a similar quality. Is that an impossible dream? Is it one that would break the bank? Really?
@mooneyman said:
Finally the likes of @aloysius need to consider where we would be if the Couhigs had not saved our club at the eleventh hour.
I have considered that and concluded that we'd likely be owned by a consortium of former Dutch players, with a centre of excellence either established or on the way. They'd have invested the same money into the side in the summer of 2019 that had us promoted to the Championship as that was a bare minimum requirement of the Trust for whoever purchased the club. That's no criticism of the Couhigs, more of the Trust board for the way the sale was conducted. But we've been over all that before and have moved on. I just don't think it's at all accurate to portray the Couhigs as our only possible saviours - they were simply skilful enough to persuade the Board and the fanbase to sell them a distressed asset on the cheap when we did.
Oh, and @Malone has me bang to rights. It's Pattison not Paterson. Apologies to all for that.
Finally I'd just like to remind everyone that bringing in new players now is exactly what Gareth Ainsworth has said he wants to do. Is it such controversial of me to back our manager and ask for the chairman to release funds to make it happen? Just imagine how frustrated we'll be if it doesn't happen and we end up in the relegation zone by just a few points, kissing goodbye to next season's c.£9m cash injection in the process. That has the potential to do far more long-term harm to the team than signing a few more players of quality now would.
I think you miss the point on sustainability. If we do as you suggest and ‘bring in quality loanees on large salaries’ that is going to eat into our pot of money - which is already being eaten into quite ravenously by the lack of crowds.
Let’s say that we throw £1 million pounds at a few quality loanees. If it works, fine. But if it doesn’t that leaves us £1 million pound less for our budget next season. For a club like ours that is a significant proportion of our available expenditure.
In my view what we need to do is ensure that if (and it’s still an if) we do get relegated we have enough money to be competitive at the top end of League One.
But I accept it’s a balance and I’m sure a couple of additions would be helpful to our cause.
We were lucky (albeit deservedly so) that we got into the Championship at the right time financially. If we hadn’t we would be pretty much skint in League One this season. It would be nice to think that if we do go down we won’t have a bare bones budget.
In an alternate reality, I like to imagine @aloysius is currently on the Gasroom questioning the motives of Bergkamp, Larsson et al and bemoaning that the Trust was ‘dazzled by the stars’ when rejecting a deal with the Couhigs.
I won’t copy the whole of the latest, lengthy post by Aloysius since (as he points out) I prefer succinctness to verbosity. Suffice to say that there is a compromise position between scepticism and sycophancy, namely trust in one’s own judgement. I believe the Couhigs have been and continue to be good for our club, Aloysius may think otherwise and that is his prerogative.
I feel confident of a win on Saturday, perhaps simply because our league luck has been so rotten. I think we will probably play the starting defence apart from maybe bringing Charles in to give him some minutes? We have so much rotation in midfield anyway it is going to look like one of the many versions we have played so far this year. Maybe Admiral gets a start to blood him in?
@FmG said:
I wouldn't be surprised to see Stockdale start
?
Don't get why anyone would want Stocks over Allsop. You say a lot Allsop only makes saves you would expect him to. Even if I did agree with that - when we've seen Stockdale recently, he doesn't even do that.
We saw him in a friendly when he hadn't played for months and before that, we saw him unfit when he hadn't played for months.
I also hope Stockdale plays and I hope if he plays really well, commanding his box, coming out for crosses and distributing well, he isn't just automatically dropped for the League again.
Comments
Pretty sure he's ill or injured.
Pretty sure he’s going out on loan or sold
I understand your argument @StrongestTeam, but who would you leave out to accommodate Freeman?
Interesting to look at the contracted position beyond next summer.
GK: Both Allsop and Stockdale contracts run out this summer. I would expect Allsop to be offered an extension if we are in League 1, less sure if we are in Champ.
FB All three of Grimmer, McCarthy and Jacobson are contracted until at least 2022 although perhaps we may get a good offer to sell Grimmer to a Championship club if we get relegated
CB Stewart and Tafazolli contracted beyond 2021 although again possible may get a transfer offer for Stewart in the summer if we get relegated. Charles contract expires this summer. Would he want another year in Lg1 not as first choice or is this a good time to stop? Knight if available would make that strong. Philips as back up if in Lg1?
CM Gape and Bloomfield contracted beyond 2021. Thompson expires then - would he get a better offer elsewhere? Pattison expires this summer. Needs to have a good second half to get a renewal. mehmeti expires this summer - will surely be offered a new contract.
WM Wheeler, Horgan, Fred and Freeman all contracted into 2022. None likely to get transfer offer. In Lg1 would there be room for McCleary too?
F Ikpeazu, Kashket and Samuel contracted into 2022. Bayo expires this summer. His choice whether to stay surely.
Kids who knows.
Parker surely leaves this summer whichever division.
have i missed anyone.
I'd have him alongside Curtis, certainly while Gape is out, ahead of Blooms, Pattison, probably behind Adeniran although he may have gone off the boil / still be carrying an injury, certainly ahead of McCarthy and by the looks of the last game it's going to be a stretch for Mehmeti to play in a 2.
Wheeler, McCleary and Horgan obviously need to contribute but I wouldn't include them in the central 2 or 3 ideally.
Whoosh!!! And the thread was hijacked.
Very 2020 way of not answering the question asked but saying loads on the one you want to answer.
You haven't missed anyone by the way simply by using the catch all 'kids'
I like what Nick brings to the match day experience. He is one player that will get off my seat in anticipation. Remembering those killer balls to Kashket & Wheeler & possibly other occasions that my memory has failed me on. Isn't he the nearest thing we have to that "through ball midfielder" we have been asking Gareth to bring in?
A point I'd make about Freeman - it must be really difficult when you are never given a good run in the side, as it is a sword of Damocles hanging over you. It is a bit chicken or egg (as some think he does not do enough when he gets the odd chance) but his appearances are so stop start I do feel as though he is at a bit of a disadvantage. To me, he is the only player besides Mehmeti who is likely to put his foot on the ball in the centre of the park and look to make things happen (Adeniran shows some of that too, though for me it is more driving with the ball than picking a creative pass). Unless Mehmeti is ready to shoulder the whole burden (and I don't think any of us would put that weight on him) Freeman surely has a part to play.
It could be argued that Mehmeti's emergence is the one that's really shattered Freeman's position here.
5-6 years younger, greater ceiling and he's probably getting the appearances Freeman would have got previously.
Hard to see a look in out wide with Horgan, Wheeler, Fred and McCleary there and not really a deep lying/combative centre mid guy.
So it'll be interesting to see if the recent disappearance from the squad is down to this realisation or simply an illness!
A random Rob Couhig ‘moan’ thread, inevitably started by @aloysius and predictably hijacked by @DevC, will surely be no match for one of the great Gasroom moments of any season - The FA Cup Thread - which @LX1 will no doubt be launching in the early hours of a morning later this week, culminating in @oilysailor’s matchday poem.
The season will be starting very soon. Bring it on...
Troubling to hear Thompson is out of contract in the summer. For me he is our best player.
Mehmeti will have a clause in his deal which gives us the option to extend by a year at least, that’s pretty standard with players of his age nowadays.
Allsop has been one of our standout players this season!
Sorry - posted all those words (more than 300, @Chris - whoops) and then failed to reply to any of the considered criticism provided in response.
Let's start with Alan Parry. I really don't think it's accurate to say I've been against the Couhigs from the start (not like a commentator to use reductive language, eh!?) - it's just I've always chosen to be sceptical of authority, any authority, rather than sycophantic. Others can take a different position. However I thank Alan for pointing out the above, which encouraged me to read the EFL rules to double-check. He's right about the press box and the floodlights, though not the dug-out - there's no mention of it being necessary to upgrade the trainer's bench, just to keep them separate.
The main criticism - expounded by @bookertease et al is that we would become unsustainable with a heavy wage bill if relegated. Well - that is where having a decent contract negotiator comes in (isn't Andrew Howard doing this now as 'sporting consultant'?). Salary reduction clauses; break clauses; low base rate supplemented by a whole gamut of bonuses - that should all be possible to negotiate. Alternatively (or in addition) bring in quality loanees on large salaries til the end of the season. We did it last year with Rolando Aarons and David Stockdale. I don't remember accusations that the club had broken the spirit of the squad by doing that.
@JohnBoy and @perfidious_albion make the point that we'd have to reduce headcount to bring in new players - as does @EwanHoosaami with his references to something called an X-Box. Well, all I'd say is that Gareth has called for extra additions so he must have a plan for reducing headcount. We've paid of Adam el-Abd, Paul Hayes, Sam Saunders mid-season, it's not beyond the realms of possibility we'll do the same with Josh Parker and Darius Charles, nor is it inconceivable that one or two of our squad might go out on loan.
Others, like @eric_plant and @mooneyman accuse me of wanting massive overspending. I really don't. But I do think that there's a reason Championship clubs are given more in solidarity payments than clubs in League One and that's to allow for inflated transfer fees and wages. How much have we spent so far on Tafazolli, Horgan, McCarthy and Ikpeazu? £100k combined? £200k? We've seen how much difference just two of those players coming back in recent weeks have contributed to the quality of play (a point that @StrongestTeam makes well). Just imagine how much better it would be if we could bring in even two more of a similar quality. Is that an impossible dream? Is it one that would break the bank? Really?
I have considered that and concluded that we'd likely be owned by a consortium of former Dutch players, with a centre of excellence either established or on the way. They'd have invested the same money into the side in the summer of 2019 that had us promoted to the Championship as that was a bare minimum requirement of the Trust for whoever purchased the club. That's no criticism of the Couhigs, more of the Trust board for the way the sale was conducted. But we've been over all that before and have moved on. I just don't think it's at all accurate to portray the Couhigs as our only possible saviours - they were simply skilful enough to persuade the Board and the fanbase to sell them a distressed asset on the cheap when we did.
Oh, and @Malone has me bang to rights. It's Pattison not Paterson. Apologies to all for that.
Finally I'd just like to remind everyone that bringing in new players now is exactly what Gareth Ainsworth has said he wants to do. Is it such controversial of me to back our manager and ask for the chairman to release funds to make it happen? Just imagine how frustrated we'll be if it doesn't happen and we end up in the relegation zone by just a few points, kissing goodbye to next season's c.£9m cash injection in the process. That has the potential to do far more long-term harm to the team than signing a few more players of quality now would.
I think you miss the point on sustainability. If we do as you suggest and ‘bring in quality loanees on large salaries’ that is going to eat into our pot of money - which is already being eaten into quite ravenously by the lack of crowds.
Let’s say that we throw £1 million pounds at a few quality loanees. If it works, fine. But if it doesn’t that leaves us £1 million pound less for our budget next season. For a club like ours that is a significant proportion of our available expenditure.
In my view what we need to do is ensure that if (and it’s still an if) we do get relegated we have enough money to be competitive at the top end of League One.
But I accept it’s a balance and I’m sure a couple of additions would be helpful to our cause.
We were lucky (albeit deservedly so) that we got into the Championship at the right time financially. If we hadn’t we would be pretty much skint in League One this season. It would be nice to think that if we do go down we won’t have a bare bones budget.
In an alternate reality, I like to imagine @aloysius is currently on the Gasroom questioning the motives of Bergkamp, Larsson et al and bemoaning that the Trust was ‘dazzled by the stars’ when rejecting a deal with the Couhigs.
I won’t copy the whole of the latest, lengthy post by Aloysius since (as he points out) I prefer succinctness to verbosity. Suffice to say that there is a compromise position between scepticism and sycophancy, namely trust in one’s own judgement. I believe the Couhigs have been and continue to be good for our club, Aloysius may think otherwise and that is his prerogative.
Well put, @glasshalffull.
Jeez @aloysius, have you got a persecution complex?
Umm, no, @EwanHoosaami? Just, you know, assumed it would be ok to respond to those who raised interesting counter points. Sorry if that offends you.
Not offended in anyway at all, why would you presume I had been offended by that post?
I'm just glad @aloysius covered my exceptionally important point
https://www.wycombewanderers.co.uk/news/2021/january/gareth-cup-run-would-mean-a-lot-to-us/
I think Ainsworth said much the same before resting half the team against Tranmere last year.
Still angry about that meek surrender? Think I must be.
I feel confident of a win on Saturday, perhaps simply because our league luck has been so rotten. I think we will probably play the starting defence apart from maybe bringing Charles in to give him some minutes? We have so much rotation in midfield anyway it is going to look like one of the many versions we have played so far this year. Maybe Admiral gets a start to blood him in?
I wouldn't be surprised to see Stockdale start
I think Ainsworth will play McCarthy, Stockdale, Charles, Bloomfield, Samuel, Fred, Kashket, Pattison and maybe Freeman.
?
Don't get why anyone would want Stocks over Allsop. You say a lot Allsop only makes saves you would expect him to. Even if I did agree with that - when we've seen Stockdale recently, he doesn't even do that.
We saw him in a friendly when he hadn't played for months and before that, we saw him unfit when he hadn't played for months.
I also hope Stockdale plays and I hope if he plays really well, commanding his box, coming out for crosses and distributing well, he isn't just automatically dropped for the League again.